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[guillaumeb]

This message was self-deleted by its author (guillaumeb) on Fri Apr 14, 2017, 04:51 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[hack89]

1. Number 6 - HRC shot JKF. nt

[Turbineguy]

2. She was

on the grassy knoll!

[LiberalArkie]

77. Look damnit she was too young, she ordered the hit from her pink Barbi Illuminati phone.

Gee everyone knows that.

[HassleCat]

3. I don't like this

I really, intensely dislike some things some people do, but they're not necessarily crimes.

[giftedgirl77]

4. Jesus Christ on a pogo stick

This shit gets more obnoxious every day.

[JoePhilly]

5. 7) She killed Vince Foster ...

... because he knew that she planned to kill Chris Stevens in a terrorist attack in 2011.

[guillaumeb]

6. So far no replies or rebuttals to the actual substance.

Do certain topics make people uncomfortable? Like talking about the real motivations of the American Empire?

[wyldwolf]

9. what actual substance?

[guillaumeb]

13. You have defined avoidance quite well.

The substance is contained in the article.

[wyldwolf]

16. All I see is a left wing site making accusations

[guillaumeb]

29. And I see no rebuttal or discussion of the substance. eom

[wyldwolf]

34. That's because it doesn't deserve a rebuttal

You may as well post something from a Republican site. It has no relevance to Democrats

[guillaumeb]

40. Are you saying that fact has no relevance?

Interesting concept. My personal feeling is that what people do is more important than what they claim that they will do at some future date. It is called history, and past performance can be a good indicator of future actions.

[wyldwolf]

44. what facts?

[guillaumeb]

47. The facts alluded to in the article. eom

[wyldwolf]

49. alluded to? LOL

[NurseJackie]

10. Some things only deserve ridicule. To take the post (or source) seriously would serve only to

entertain and flatter the OP.

Hey, at least people are reading it. It's not locked. Be happy with what you get.

[guillaumeb]

14. Have you ever read:

A Peoples' History of the United States, by Howard Zinn?

[Hekate]

56. I'll bet it survives an alert handily

[leveymg]

17. There rarely is. They lack in substance what they try to make up with snide.

Making DU suck and mindless cheerleading for reactionaries from the cheap seats is what our resident Right-wing do best. They just fester.

[guillaumeb]

22. Certain topics make people uncomfortable.

Obviously this is one.

But when voters construct a mythical candidate who fulfills their hopes and dreams, the inevitable disillusionment that ensues when that candidate acts often leads to apathy.

[leveymg]

32. Discomfort is the body's way of warning you something is wrong.

Obviously, those who choose to ignore pain will be naturally selected out. Apathy is also just a symptom of people who have chosen to give up.

[guillaumeb]

67. Perhaps a second reading is in order.

I saw five allegations, none of which have been actually commented on by any of the critics here.

[leveymg]

7. She's the principal U.S. author of the Libya-Syria serial regime change operations.

Call it a crime if you like, but more than a quarter million people have died and the ISIS takeover of territory has been the result.

[Agnosticsherbet]

8. None of those accusations are define under US Law as crimes.

[guillaumeb]

15. Interference in the sovereignty of another country is against International Law.

And all treaties and International Law are considered to be a part of the US Constitution.

[Agnosticsherbet]

19. Pursuing US policy set hy the Prestdent as hus Secretary of State is not a crime.

[guillaumeb]

25. No government official can ignore International Law.

The Nuremberg Trials defined and established that particular tenet of law.

[Agnosticsherbet]

33. Foreign governments do not consider her actions as a diplomat a crime.

Your accusations have no basis in fact.

[guillaumeb]

37. What foreign governments consider actionable does not change what is legal.

But there are four alleged crimes. What of the others?

[Agnosticsherbet]

45. None of what you suggested are illegal.

[guillaumeb]

48. Yours is an interesting view of International Law and US responsibilities.

The Bush Administration took a similar view when it came to torture and illegal war.

[vorgan24]

36. Winners make the rules...

Guess who the winners were?

Hint, it wasn't Germany.

[guillaumeb]

41. Some might say that Germany is winning (with the EU) what it lost during

the Second World War.

[Demeter]

64. Easy come, easy go

Now the Germans are losing it all in the refugee crisis, a result of the Eurozone supporting stupid US State Dept. and Military Adventures.

[guillaumeb]

66. Very true.

Will all the refugees dilute the pure blood of the master race?

[Demeter]

70. Europe will be leveled in this generation...there won't be anything to dilute

[guillaumeb]

72. By "leveled" do you mean integrated into a single state? eom

[Demeter]

73. No, I mean leveled, like Dresden in WWII

[guillaumeb]

74. One hopes that the world will never see such horror again.

But that hope is often disappointed.

[Demeter]

82. I have no such hopes

and I see a future that will curse the past that brought it into being.

[JaneyVee]

11. Lets see...

Bernie voted for Afghan war, says will continue drones, screamed at Palestine activists at town hall, has funded every war, ?

[guillaumeb]

18. True. And that excuses what exactly?

First, I did not write the article, but I thought that the issues raised deserved attention.

Second, I see only little difference in matters of foreign policy between the 2 top Democratic candidates. O'Malley has different views.

Third, unlike some who post here, I have always stated that the eventual Democratic nominee will receive my vote and active support.

But I feel that far too often voters vote for who they perceive to be the candidate without considering the actual positions of the candidate. I do not limit this criticism to any one candidate.

[zalinda]

27. Has funded every war?

Do you think he should have let our soldiers die there for lack of armor and other supplies? What about medical teams? Didn't they deserve to be supported after the President and his staff sent the soldier over there to fight their stupid war?

Z

[mcar]

12. Crimes?

You mean a presidential contender is a convict? When were the trials?

[guillaumeb]

20. This is not a court, it is a forum for discussion.

And this is a topic for discussion.

[mcar]

23. I am aware that this is not a court

Nor are accusations "crimes."

[guillaumeb]

26. Therefore making the author guilty of hyperbole?

We agree.

[moobu2]

21. #9 She killed Jimmy Hoffa and buried him in her back yard too.

[workinclasszero]

24. Congrats BSers. You have dragged this forum down

To freerepublic teabagger levels.

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert
On Fri Nov 6, 2015, 03:25 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Five Clinton crimes that won't be investigated
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251775069

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Accusing Hillary Clinton of crimes. Really?
Good for freak republic but DU?

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri Nov 6, 2015, 03:33 PM, and voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's from the article and it's an opinion. Sanders was accused of being responsible for gun deaths and protecting child molesters by HRC supporters so it's only fair that Hillary gets the same scrutiny. If you disagree discuss it in the thread.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: At first I was going to leave it alone and let DU give this drivel the proper ridicule, however, after thinking about the fact that the post uses the term "crime" I have to conclude that it is definitely "over the top" not to mention "rude"
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: rebut the post, don't censor it. It is far easier to try and get a post removed than to argue it and show that it is not true; I understand that, but please put in the effort.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Talk it out. It is in an article and will come up from one place or the other again. Talk it out here. Simple denials are not going to be good enough later on, better see the ugly here and work it out. Nobody wants to see this but it is out there.

[guillaumeb]

28. I agree with one and seven. Obviously.

While I agree with some of the article, and I also agree that the title is somewhat hyperbolic, if the point is to highlight inconsistencies between HRC's action and her positions, that discussion should be had.

[bvf]

58. Take up your complaint about the jury system

with the admins instead of whining, for crying out loud.

[dlwickham]

76. as if the jury system actually works

it's easier to put people on ignore than waste time alerting on posts

[MohRokTah]

30. Citing a Socialist web site???

Last edited Fri Nov 6, 2015, 06:34 PM - Edit history (1)

[guillaumeb]

38. So the source discredits the allegation?

Given that many Americans claim to prefer socialism to capitalism, perhaps your laughter is nervous?

Again, respond to the specific allegations. Or do they make you uncomfortable?

[MohRokTah]

43. Yes, the source completely discredits the allegation. eom

[zappaman]

31. A new DU low!

And once again proving the extreme left is closer than they think to the extreme right.

[redstateblues]

81. well said- sadly it has come to that

the only difference is that the extreme right has been organized enough to elect a bunch of people that influence policy. All the extreme left has done so far is post stuff on DU

[silenttigersong]

35. When a Republican does it

outrage_when a Dem does it_loyal dems are quiet this is the point I think.

[guillaumeb]

39. I would agree with your view.

Apparently that makes one a GOP stooge, or a GOP troll, or some such nonsense. I might conclude from the responses here that there is a real fear to confront the fact that when it comes to Empire and power politics, there is not much difference between the two major parties.

[George II]

42. If, as you say halfway down, they're " "alleged" crimes", your subject line is a lie.

[guillaumeb]

46. The alleged part is my editorial addition.

The title is the actual title of the article.

All of that said, what is your quarrel with the substance of the article?

[George II]

50. Fiction vs. fact. It's a hit piece.

[guillaumeb]

51. I will await your point by point refutation. eom

[cpwm17]

52. People suck: they support those horrible activities when their side is doing it

or they are done by the powerful.

[guillaumeb]

68. One interpretation.

And if one excuses crimes because our side is doing it, there is little room to criticize when the other side does it.

[Samantha]

53. I am a Sanders supporter

I think this thread is a crock.

Sam

[Tarc]

54. A socialist troll parroting Free Republic talking points?

What is the DU coming to?

[Omaha Steve]

55. You know there is a Socialist Group on the DU?

Not to mention millions of Democrats?

[guillaumeb]

75. The horror!!!!!!! Socialists you say?

We must institute an investigation, or perhaps an inquisition!!!!!!

[Hekate]

57. Yes indeedy that is the case. Only has 4 Recs, though. So far.

[Scootaloo]

60. You must not know what Freerepublic is, Tarc.

Here. Let me take each of these points, and give you the freeper response to it.

1. "Humanitarian" War in Afghanistan

"Kill them turrist ay-rabz!"

2. Killer Drones

"Yup! Kill them thar turrist ay-rabz too!"

3. Supporting Israel's War on Palestine

"Gotta kill turrist ay-rabz so jesus can come on back y'all!"

4. The World Is Our Piggy Bank

"Well they ain't speakin' german are they? YOUR WELCOME, EURABIA!!!"

5. Supporting the Coup-makers in Honduras

"Hah! Suck it, commies!"

I hope this clarifies for you that these are not criticisims form the right, because the right supports each and every last one of them. That's why these criticisms are coming from the left.

I hope this clears up any confusion you might have.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

61. +all. nt

[Tarc]

62. Lol

A lecture from a Brony?

Pass...

[Scootaloo]

63. Excellent ad hom.

I'm sorry that you realized you have no clue what you're talking about, and have to resort to such measures to maintain your "face".

[Dem2]

65. Wow

I didn't realize that we tear apart Democrats here using links usually used by conservative sites.

[guillaumeb]

69. How do you define conservative?

[guillaumeb]

71. As of 7.08 Central time, I have read the many negative responses to the post.

While re-reading the negative responses, I have yet to read a single response that actually addresses even one of the allegations. There is much ad hominem attack, much horror that an opinion from an actual left wing site would be posted at DU.

As if the "purity" of DU might be tainted by questioning the motivation and beliefs of a candidate for office!!!!! When I editorialized:

While the GOP is focused on destroying the HRC candidacy, Congress, and the American people, should be focused on how these actions by the Secretary of State are playing a part in the destruction of freedom and democracy all over the world

those particular words were mine. And yes, they are somewhat harsh. But they do not apply solely to HRC's actions when she was Secretary of State. Her actions are not unique, they are an historical fact of US policy. And when US citizens refuse to recognize that US policy is predominantly motivated by power politics, people will never understand why the US does what it does.

The US has invaded nearly every nation in the world at one time or another. While the simplified and comforting fiction is that the US only intervenes as a last resort, any reading of US history will show that force is always the motivator. Any show of diplomacy is just that, a show, because US history shows that the US is always willing to use the military to accomplish what it wants.

If any here choose to interpret my motives for posting this article as an attack on HRC, they have that right. But my goal is to show that behind the rhetoric that any particular political candidate uses, there is the reality and the historical record of that candidate's actions.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

78. That's some

funny shit. Thanks for posting.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

79. Are you now or have you ever been

a member of the Communist Party?

[guillaumeb]

80. I am not now, not have I ever been a member of the

Capitalist Party.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

83. Nice try

But your post is reminiscent of the McCarthy hearings.

[guillaumeb]

84. When you offer some substantive criticism of the specific

charges raised, I will reply to those charges.