Is this How Hillary pays back a good turn?:

[Cal33]

Bernie initially said that he would not say anything negative about fellow Democrats during the
campaign, and he kept his word. During the first Democratic Primary Presidential debate, he
even helped Hillary, when the subject of her e-mails was brought up, in stead of taking
advantage of the situation. Very gentlemanly of him, indeed!

Then later Hillary started attacking him personally. Well, is that her way of repaying him for
having been a gentleman? It struck me that she was the type who believes in "Win at any Price,
no holds barred" -- not a very pleasant character trait to have, in my opinion! It would have been
foolish of Bernie to continue taking it lying down under these circumstances, wouldn't it? Being
the fighter that he is, he is striking back.

Now Hillary supporters are complaining about Bernie supporters "hating Hillary" when they criticize
her. Who started the negativity first?

Do Hillary supporters see what I have written above also as "hate?" I consider it as a criticism of
Hillary, based on fact. Nobody's perfect. I don't particularly like Hillary, but I don't hate her either.
As I have stated in past posts, I will vote for her in the GE, should she beat Bernie in the Primaries.

[DanTex]

1. Translation: Bernie flip-flopped, and you're making excuses for him.

[Cal33]

5. Bernie protected Hillary during the first Democratic Primary Debate from being challenged

on the topic of her e-mails, and shortly thereafter she came out with her attacks on him.
And you are expecting him not to defend himself? You call this "flip flop?"

I think you either don't understand the term "flip flop," or you are incapable of looking
at a situation objectively.

[vorgan24]

8. So, two wrongs make a right?

Mr. Honest said he wasn't going to turn this into a campaign of personal attacks, but after a few comments he decides to go on the all-out offensive.

Seriously, if this is how he reacts to some minor commentary then I'm afraid to see how he'd react to the commentary Russia or China send our way

[Cal33]

11. He protected Hillary from being attacked on the subject of her emails, and she

repaid him for that by attacking him some days later. And then he began to
defend himself. You call this "two wrongs?"

I see only one wrong -- Hillary's. And add to that her ingratitude. Bernie's
action is self-defense. There is nothing wrong with self-defense.

[Historic NY]

28. Kinda of a moot point now isn't it....

he walked back his comments and now the...

The U.S. intelligence community has retreated from claims that two emails in Hillary Clinton’s private account contained top-secret information, a source familiar with the situation told POLITICO.

After a review, intelligence agencies concluded that the two emails did not include highly classified intelligence secrets, the source said. Concerns about the emails' classification helped trigger an ongoing FBI inquiry into Clinton's private email setup.

Intelligence Community Inspector General I. Charles McCullough III made the claim that two of the emails contained top-secret information; the State Department publicly stated its disagreement and asked Director of National Intelligence James Clapper’s office to referee the dispute. Now, that disagreement has been resolved in State’s favor, said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/hillary-clinton-email-no-highly-classified-215599#ixzz3qqain03E


http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/hillary-clinton-email-no-highly-classified-215599

[dpatbrown]

41. First of all,

it's insulting to refer to Senator Sanders as "Mr. Honest". That goes without saying, and something that can't be said about Hillary. Secondly, to call it an "all-out offensive", is hyperbole at its best. For him to be mocked for his honesty is below the belt.

[Kentonio]

75. All out offensive?

Oh that is hilarious. If you think pointing out the differences between them is even an attack, then when you see what the GOP would do with her you'll get a real shock.

[Armstead]

10. It's the second altrnative

[imthevicar]

6. The diffrence between a flip Flop and Pointing out the truth!

IS what we have here!

[Bread and Circus]

14. Has Bernie attacked Hillary personally in a way not relevant to policy?

[sabrina 1]

19. Did Bernie get personal with Hillary, or just point out where she was wrong, again?

I saw no flip flop. He is going to point out any lies told about him by her or her campaign. Best way for her to avoid this is to tell her campaign to stop the lies, stop buying talking points that are false and spreading them aroud, and for her to stick to the issues and take a lesson from Bernie on how NOT to do what politicians always do, just tell the truth about the issues and she'll be fine.

[hughee99]

20. Perhaps he "evolved" like Clinton does

When she abruptly changes positions.

[rhett o rick]

26. That's projection if I've ever seen it. Which side of the Fracking issue is HRC on today?

How about the TPP? She doesn't flip-flop on her devotion to Wall Street, she even said that the only thing she did to control Wall Street was tell them to stop it. Probably wagged her finger also, and then they all had a good laugh and they donated to her campaign, her foundation or her personal wealth.

[Live and Learn]

33. Nope, he has never attacked her. He has pointed out differences in their take on issues.

He has to since she keeps stealing his.

[Motown_Johnny]

40. It seems Clinton supporters hear what they want to hear.

Bernie addressed the way the media was covering the email scandal.

Clinton supporters heard him tell the FBI to stop the investigation into the emails.



Now they call it a flip flop.


Nowhere near being in touch with reality on this one.

[1monster]

73. Stating her record, setting the record straight (where it was distorted),

and comparing her records and policies to his is not a personal attack. Bernie did not flip flop.It is not an attack to compare and contrast ones opponent to oneself and it is very disengenuous for anyone to suggest that it is.

[cui bono]

74. Flip flopped on what?

Bernie doesn't need any excuses made for him. As the OP's example shows, he is a class act and he stood up for Hillary in the debates.

Hillary, otoh, shows no class by playing the gender card - twice now - against Bernie when it was completely unwarranted. She makes personal attacks that are smears rather than talk about issues. Slimy.

[72DejaVu]

2. If the Bernie supporters had thinner skins

they'd pop like balloons.

[rhett o rick]

27. We are fighting the billionaires' control of our government. Some are comfortable with

the big money rule but we are not. Insult away, but don't slip up and talk about issues.

[floriduck]

54. Actually, Hillary made a conscious

decision to take a general statement about people debating (shouting) gun control and turn it into a multiple speech statement about sexism. Hillary likes to play dirty and she is determined to attack anyone and anything that gets in her way of her entitled presidency. She uses false tears and humble mumble trying to get sympathy. She switches positions like you change underwear. There is very little about the woman that is genuine. And a flawed female candidate is STILL a flawed candidate.

And those of you Hillarites that expect all of the Bernie supporters to forget your lies and attacks and vote for her IF she wins the primary are really asking a lot. I believe in Bernie. And I don't expect any HRC sheep to vote for Bernie when he gets the nod.

I just thought I should get that out there now before more bullshit flies from the corporate corner..

[peacebird]

55. +1

[stillwaiting]

79. Too many Hillary supporters believe that criticizing Hillary's past actions and past/current policy

positions is "hating" on her.

That to me is incredibly thin skin.

Most people don't take kindly to being called racist or sexist. This has been happening to Bernie and his supporters. It's obnoxious and hideous, and it's going to get a reaction some of the time.

[azmom]

3. I really hope he keeps exposing her

For what she really is. Enough of the artifice.

[Cal33]

7. I believe he will. I'll say Hillary is tough, but Bernie is both tough and fair.

[sabrina 1]

23. He's much tougher. He doesn't have an army of Think Tanks and lobbyists and 'advisers' and Wall St

CEOs telling him what to say or do. Never did need all that. He stands up for himself and does it exceptionally well.

[JaneyVee]

4. I noticed she didn't even utter their names yesterday, while...

Her opposition couldn't help themselves.

[Live and Learn]

34. Bernie was asked about Hillary. Should he refuse to speak her name?

What do you suggest he call her instead?

[SwampG8r]

53. Yeah but she did say she could name a Republican to be her vp

[Smarmie Doofus]

9. Listen. It's a political campaign. If they don't draw distinctions...

... between themselves and their opponents, what the heck is the point?

I cannot STAND Clinton. Repeat: Cannot *stand* her. Cannot stand *her*; cannot stand her * politics*.

If Sanders said... or implied.... that he wouldn't compare his own record favorably relative to Clinton's ( which I can't believe)... than that was a DUMB thing to say. And he should retract it.

So far... I don't think anything that's come out Clinton's mouth in terms of negativity.... has been over the top. The bullshit about "shouting" is typical of her and her crew: cynical, dishonest, manipulative. But par for the course for her... and really not that "bad" as primary norms go.

Point is: Clinton's got nothing of substance or consequence to say about virtually anything. "Vote for me; I'm a woman." is pretty much it.

Sanders, OTOH... is LOADED. But Sanders has TO MAKE HIS CASE. The case THAT HE IS SUPERIOR TO CLINTON.

This is not a hard case to make. ( To put it mildly.) But the point is: no one else is going to do it.

[Cal33]

12. Have you read the post "Confessions from a Hillary Shill" by Le Taz Hot (not many threads

down from here at the present time)? The message describes how someone working for
Hillary's campaign felt he had to quit when he could no longer take any more of the BS
that was going on there. He not only quit Hillary, he also switched sides and joined
Bernie. It's a good read.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=773551

[VanillaRhapsody]

21. and it total hogwash

like online polls....

[Live and Learn]

35. You have no proof of that. nt

[That Guy 888]

13. "Win at any Price, no holds barred" is pretty much Hillary's style... against Democratic rivals

If she were that dirty a fighter against repugnantcans, it would go a long way towards mitigating her other flaws.

[VanillaRhapsody]

22. Yeah that is what they said about the late Dale Earnhardt....

but what he was ....was a winner.

And I don't know what you are talking about....she polls ahead of all of them...tied with Carson the Flavor du jour.....but he is not going to be that for much longer....

[That Guy 888]

48. What I'm talking about is IMO a lawyerly approach to the gop

Reserved, dignified, certain civility maintained with her gop opponents, like opposing counsel in court. When the court shuts down at the end of the day, she has no problems going out to share drinks at the local watering hole with the other side.

But OTH democrats who dare question her... well those are just peasants that don't deserve the same chivalrous code of conduct as her gop opponents. In short, she doesn't see democrats who disagree with her as deserving the courtesy and respect she gives to republican office holders.

If she were "sharp elbows and eye-gouging" style dirty fighting with the gop, she would be closer to having my vote in the primary.

Keep in mind, just my opinion, nothing to do with any other posters.

[VanillaRhapsody]

56. So? They ALL do that....

Jeebus.....you really do not understand how it works in DC do you?

This is politics not Tiddly Winks....

[That Guy 888]

57. All Democrats hit Democratic oponents harder than republicans?

You really believe that?

[VanillaRhapsody]

59. Have you seen the Republican Primary?

Besides this is politics not pillow fights....

She is the one candidate that WILL confront the Republicans...that is why I like her. Bernie is just not up to the task. He wants Marquis of Queensbury rules...they dont fight by those...

[That Guy 888]

60. Talking about DEMOCRATS, not the 'pukes

And yes they (the republicans) for the most part hit Dems harder than their peers.

She is the one candidate that WILL confront the Republicans

When? She's one of those Democrats who want to wait for the perfect strategic position to attack, and it never comes until after "we the people" lead the way. Imagine if she, as one of the Senators who had World Trade victims as constituents, had said bush's Iraq war would would delay, and maybe deny justice for the victims of 9/11? Sometimes it's necessary to do the right thing, she did not.

Marquis of Queensbury rules

It seemed that way to me when she very politely agreed to richard mellon scaiffe's every whim to be interviewed by him. Why crawl to the man who funded a smear machine against you and your family? I guess to show that she can "work" with republicans.

[VanillaRhapsody]

61. Who coined the term Vast Rightwing Conspiracy?

They hate her because they have thrown every punch they have at her and still she kicks thier asses.....without fail. You can get that notion out of your head that she will go easy on them....that is hogwash....

[That Guy 888]

63. and she crawled to the funder of the "vast right wing conspiracy"

Last edited Sat Nov 7, 2015, 11:23 PM - Edit history (1)

for an interview agreeing to all his preconditions, to show she could work with republicans.

Glad to see that you're not trying to say pukes don't hit Dems harder than their fellow 'pukes.

You can get that notion out of your head that she will go easy on them....

Past is prologue. She goes after them in a very lawyer-like way, knowing at the end of the day there's a good chance she'll meet them at the matalin-carville's for drinks, or perhaps at the bush family compound in Kennebunkport.

[VanillaRhapsody]

67. She did???

[That Guy 888]

68. She Didn't?

[VanillaRhapsody]

69. I guess

x infinity

[That Guy 888]

70. So to sum up... Hillary fights Dems harder than the gop

She attacks Dems harder than repugs. You no longer contest that, glad to see you accept reality.

She crawls to right wingers like richard mellon scaiffe to show that she is pragmatic and can get things done, which apparently fills you with joy.

And you're cool with her hanging out with the bush's (hey maybe she can be Hillary bush, sorta like Bandar, right?)

[VanillaRhapsody]

71. No...Hillary fights...

That is all...

[That Guy 888]

72. She crawled to richard mellon scaiffe just prove that she could work with repukes

She's smart and knowledgeable but couldn't figure out dimson wanted to be "a war time president" no matter what? Quite the fighter... grrr

[LiberalArkie]

31. That technically is Arkansas politics. Maybe all Southern politics. It is a contact sport.

You lie, you steal, hell send someone to jail if need be. There is only one goal. Win. That is the only thing that ever matters. If it means telling someone how much you respect them while running a blade through them. Well it is just politics. Ask James Carville he knows how it is played, hell ethics do not apply when running for office.

[That Guy 888]

50. My complaint isn't political "contact sports"

It's that to extend the metaphor, her fouls seem to be only against democrats. If she were just an all-round dirty fighter, and not just against democrats, and not just in service to her own ambitions then I would applaud her "Arkansas politics" fighting ability.

Hmmm... Carville, not a fan. I hope he didn't let scooter libby read Goldilocks and the Three Bears to his kids.

[George II]

15. "Then later Hillary started attacking him personally"?

Any specific quotes?

[mcar]

58. Was wondering that too

[pnwmom]

16. Wrong. He did NOT try to do her a good turn with the emails.

That his answer was due to having to give an answer in 12 seconds.

And that he supports the investigation into her emails and that it is a "character issue."

So he wasn't trying to be "gentlemanly" -- that was a goof-up.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-sanders-takes-gloves-off-against-hillary-clinton-in-interview-1446684586

[rhett o rick]

30. But she gave him a warm thank you after he said it. And are you using the Wall Street

Journal as a source? Isn't that as bad as Fox News? Murdock probably favors Clinton as does the rest of the crooks on Wall Street.

[pnwmom]

32. It was an interview with QUOTATIONS that Bernie does not dispute.

And it has been widely reported ,so he should dispute it if the WSJ misquoted him.

Get real.

Yes -- Hillary thanked him. She saw a good way to use what he'd said to her benefit. She thought fast on her feet, which is a useful quality in a debater.

[Live and Learn]

36. It is a "character issue." Who could dispute that? Even Hillary admits it was a mistake.

So Bernie merely stated a fact.

[pnwmom]

44. It was a tech issue. The non-classified .gov issue was a clunky antique

that no previous S of S had used.

Who could dispute that?

[Live and Learn]

46. I already answered that below but keep kicking the OP. nt

[rhett o rick]

43. I can't read the quote because I don't subscribe to the Wall Street Journal. nm

[pnwmom]

49. Many other media sources repeat the quotes. I don't have a subscription either

but they let you read 10 each month for free.

[George II]

66. She did it to be nice.

[Tarc]

17. The "he even helped Hillary" meme

Post-debate, didn't the Sanders camp say that his line there was one that he rehearsed and that it was not intended as support but rather a criticism that her e-mail situation was a distraction, but sitll a problem for her?

No the Sanders supporters use it as an example of his chivalry?


Y'all need to make up your minds here.

[pnwmom]

18. Yes, and he said it was a "character issue" in his WSJ interview this week.

See post #16.

So he messed up his delivery of the line, which allowed Hillary to take it and run with it. And then he got credit from some for being "gentlemanly."

[Live and Learn]

37. Yes, and he was correct. nt

[pnwmom]

39. No, it was a tech issue that he didn't have to deal with as a Rep or Senator.

The non-classified state department email system was an antique that couldn't be used away from the department. And she wasn't supposed to use the classified system for anything that wasn't classified.

[Live and Learn]

45. Then she should have done something to get it fixed but I don't believe that anyway.

I am not allowed to post company business on my private email and she shouldn't either. She also knew it was a big issue when Rove and Cheney did it. It should be illegal. It certainly gives the illusion of impropriety which is a character flaw.

I am actually quite surprised that you keep bringing it up. If she were my candidate I would hope the issue died a timely death.

[pnwmom]

52. The wheels of government turn very slowly and it was on schedule to be fixed -- by 2015.

I didn't bring the issue up and she isn't "my" candidate. I like all three. But I will defend her when people spread lies about her.

[Live and Learn]

62. Then she should have found an appropriate way to deal with it.

I only see you defend her. Funny how posting like emails leave traces behind.

[pnwmom]

64. There are more lies posted about her here because there are many

more supporters of Bernie here.

But just the other day I corrected a post a Hillary supporter had made, saying that she was "leading" in a NH poll because she was 3 points "ahead." That is what the reporter had said, too, but it was wrong. Hillary and Bernie are neck and neck in the poll -- tied -- because that result was within the margin of error.

[Live and Learn]

65. Wow, I guess I missed one of your posts. Way to stick your neck out. nt

[demwing]

47. Citation, please

I don't recall Bernie ever saying that he intended the line as a criticism of Hillary

[cantbeserious]

24. The Truth Will Out - Though Justice May Be Denied

eom

[abakan]

25. No good deed goes unpunished.

Bernie needs to remember who he is fighting against. To Mrs. Clinton politics are a blood sport and being a gentleman will not stop or slow her down. She will see it as a sign of weakness and will take advantage of that perceived weakness every chance she has. I don't mind if Bernie comes out swinging and shows the real difference between the two. I want to see the best candidate possible in the general election and I believe that is Bernie but i will vote for the democratic candidate no matter who it turns out to be.

[Cal33]

29. Me, too. I would vote for Hillary if she wins the Primaries. It would be death for democracy

if the Republicans win.

[billhicks76]

38. Smeared Obama As Muslim

"anyone who doubts just how low Hillary Clinton is willing to go to smear an opponent doesn't remember when she was running against Barack Obama. "Obama's campaign team accused Hillary Clinton's beleaguered staff of mounting a desperate dirty tricks operation by circulating a picture of him in African dress, feeding into false claims on US websites that he was a Muslim. Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, described it as "the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election." Now she's suggesting that Bernie Sanders is racist and sexist and that it is HE who is "going negative"

[Phlem]

42. The apologies are facking amazing in this thread and

Entertaining.

[Thinkingabout]

51. We see the story Sanders never changes his mind is not true, another flip flop.

[JustAnotherGen]

76. I think winning

National elections is nasty business and everyone in the race should throw elbows when they see fit. Not just on our side, but Republicans too.

[Enthusiast]

77. Hillary is tough.

Didn't you get that?

[alcibiades_mystery]

78. Post about supporters