2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumCan we get back to the issues? Really, things are getting
past childish here. I'd like to see more on what each candidate proposes.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)32 years ago is getting boring.
DJ13
(23,671 posts)But I get the feeling either they dont know what that is, or know it wouldnt be popular, so it will be more "Bernie said this 5-10-20 years ago" taken out of context.
Dem2
(8,166 posts)The dozen or so threads today attacking Hillary are not promoting the tit-for-tat?
DJ13
(23,671 posts)What today represents is a response to an ever increasing barrage of negativity by the Hillary supporters over the last two weeks about both Bernie and his supporters.
It can (and will) get worse as this continues.
about the tit-for-tat, substance follows when the attacks diminish on both sides
merrily
(45,251 posts)Dem2
(8,166 posts)I was discussing the tit-for-tat fighting issue.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Dem2
(8,166 posts)...of reacting angrily to an attack and then posting an attack O/P in response.
Without acknowledging this occurs on both sides, the cycle continues ad infinitum.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Waiting for both sides to change before you change is a good way to ensure nothing changes. I've made my point. Seems you want to be "right" about being part of the problem. I'm moving on.
Dem2
(8,166 posts)Please show me this. I feel twisted logic is being used here, I may have to move on...
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)She's released more policy proposals than any other candidate.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)From agreed. Hillary will bend a little bit, but not so much that she cant get herself back on course in the general [election] and when she is governing, he said.
What are her real goals?
DJ13
(23,671 posts)Say anything to win?
Just a wild guess.
Blue_Adept
(6,393 posts)Half of the first several responses are just calling her a warmonger, reciting the IWR vote or something else that's the Sole Issue for that particular poster.
Neither "side" is interested in discussing the issues. That's been plain for months - which is why a number of folks pressed for GDP to be created earlier than usual because it was crushing dialogue in GD for quite awhile.
Sides were staked out early. Discussion of issues isn't the thing here.
FSogol
(45,453 posts)that I like a lot:
A JOBS AGENDA FOR OUR RENEWABLE ENERGY FUTURE
As a nation, we have made great strides toward becoming energy independent. Now is the time to accelerate that progress. The future of our country and our planet depend on it.
Today, we are in the midst of an extraordinary transition from one energy regime to a new one.
New technologies have put a clean energy, energy independent future within reach while the threat of climate change, and the urgent need for new middle-class jobs, makes it imperative that we aggressively pursue it. The fact is, there is no either/or choice between our prosperity and our environment that we can create a future where there are more good-paying jobs, or a future with a healthy environment, but not both.
The reality is the two goals are indivisible. And it is time to make clean energy and climate change a top national priority. Thats because:
We have a moral obligation to act immediately and aggressively to stop climate change.
Clean energy represents the biggest business and job creation opportunity weve seen in a hundred years.
Ending fossil fuel use is a public health imperative, and would extend the lives of 200,000 Americans each year.
Reliance on local, renewable energy sources means a safer, more stable world.
We cant meet the climate challenge with an all-of-the-above energy strategy, or from drilling off our coasts, or from building pipelines that bring oil from tar sands in Canada.
Meeting the climate challenge requires a commitment to one simple concept: a full transition to clean, renewable energy and an end our reliance on fossil fuels altogether.
I believe, within 35 years, our country can and should be 100% powered by clean energy, supported by millions of new jobs. But we have to accelerate the transition right now.
As President, on Day One, I would use my executive authority to declare the transition to a clean energy future the Number One priority of our federal government. I would:
Create a new Clean Energy Jobs Corps to partner with communities to retrofit buildings to be more energy efficient, improve local resiliency, create new green spaces, and restore and expand our forests so they can absorb more greenhouse gases.
Retrofit federal buildings to the highest efficiency standards and require new federal buildings to be net-zero. The federal government owns and manages nearly 900,000 buildings, more than any other entity.
Require the federal fleet to be subject to low- or zero-emissions purchasing agreements. Our federal fleet of 250,000 vehicles consumes more than $450 million gallons of gasoline and diesel fuel every year. Fuel costs saved should be reinvested in clean energy deployment and jobs.
Require all federally funded infrastructure projects to meet climate resiliency standards.
Direct the Environmental Protection Agency to take aggressive action to limit greenhouse gases, expanding rules to other large sources of emissions beyond power plants.
Direct the Environmental Protection Agency to adopt a zero-tolerance policy for methane leaks from current oil and gas production. Leaks waste $1.8 billion annually, while exacerbating greenhouse gas pollution.
Direct the EPA and Departments of Defense and Transportation to set strong efficiency standards, including setting strict MPG standards for new buildings and requiring energy costs to be transparent to tenants and purchasers. Building retrofits out-perform investments in new gas and oil exploration as a form of job creation or economic stimulus by 3 to 1.
Reject projects like Keystone XL that exacerbate climate change and extend our reliance on fossil fuels.
Deny new permits for drilling in Alaska, Antarctica, and off our coasts.
Increase royalties and emissions fees for fossil fuel companies currently drilling on federal lands and invest the proceeds in jobs and skills training.
Keep domestically produced oil and gas in the U.S., instead of selling it abroad unless there is a clear strategic security rationale.
More broadly, I would make clean energy deployment and employment a first order priority. I would:
Set a national, cross-sector Renewable Electricity Standard so our nation is powered by 100% clean energy by 2050.
Fight for federal legislation for a cap on carbon emissions from all sources, with proceeds from permits returned to lower- and middle-class families and invested in job transition assistance and the Clean Energy Corps.
Set a national goal of doubling our energy productivity within 15 years. Low energy productivity costs American businesses and households $130 billion a year.
Support a Clean Energy Financing Authority to support clean energy infrastructure, projects to increase efficiency, and resiliency upgrades in communities nationwide.
End all subsidies for fossil fuels, while extending production and investment tax credits for renewable energy for the long term. Taxpayer subsidies for fossil fuel companies total $4 billion a year, even as the biggest oil companies reap $90 billion in annual profits.
Prioritize modernizing our electric grid to evolve to support localized, renewable energy generation, reduce electricity waste, and increase security from sabotage or attack. Power outages are up 285% over the last 30 years, costing businesses as much as $150 billion each year, and renewable energy sources remain unconnected.
Make robust investments in state and community resiliency.
Increase our investment in basic clean energy research so the U.S. can reclaim the lead on energy innovation, including advancing development, deployment, transmission, storage for renewable energy, and managing demand more effectively.
Work with industry to help meet skills and employment needs that the current labor market isnt sufficiently supplying, like utility workers and cybersecurity experts.
All of O'Malley's plans are posted in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12813600
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)comprehensive plan is beyond my wildest dreams.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)So they look for anything else they can use.
The same people will claim accurately quoting their candidate is an attack.
DU is going to be insane until about March 2017.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)supporters and accused of making threats for suggesting that they ought to focus on her positives rather than continually dissing people who like Bernie. I can fully understand someone having a tough time making the case for any of the Repukes in the race, but come on, if Hillary is such an outstanding candidate who deserves to be the next President, please tell me and others why you think so.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)And how we're going to get out of the economic, environmental and foreign policy crises we've gotten ourselves into.
That said, I think we've gotten a good idea of who stands for what over this cycle, and we're just marking time here on DU while things are moving on the ground.
DJ13
(23,671 posts)"... foreign policy crises we've gotten ourselves into."
We cant do it by electing more Third Way neo-liberals who will continue the same policies we've suffered under the last 35 years.
Of course that gets back to the real reason the Hillary supporters want nothing to do with real policy discussions......
Hydra
(14,459 posts)Which is a great way of laying out their platform- more of the same.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)Politicians tend to pander to their core voting block, and issues alone do not make a good Candidate. Even if you tried to start a discussion on GDP about a particular issue it would turn into a Snark & Gothca' fest. Besides a few Hillary specific feeds I'm set up to receive alerts on specific issues. It's how I get most of my information.
To find something substantive on GDP is like losing your Watch in the Land Fill and trying desperately to find it.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Hillary's bad judgement makes her unfit to be Commander-In-Chief.
Hillary supported regime change in Iraq. That policy has resulted in hundreds of thousands killed, thousands of American soldiers killed, countless injuries, and horrific chaos that continues today.
Hillary supported regime change in Libya that has resulted in mass suffering, death, and chaos that continues today. She refers to it as "smart power at its best."
Hillary did not oppose the coup that ousted the democratically elected president in Honduras. That coup fueled the violence in Honduras that contributed to a refugee crisis at our border.
Hillary supported nation-building in Afghanistan and even bigger troop increases in Afghanistan than Obama approved. The approved increase resulted in hundreds of American soldiers losing their lives.
Hillary not only supported the Israeli attacks in Gaza, but was not even willing to condemn Israel for its disproportionate use of force in those attacks.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)Now it's a bazillion plus one. Thanks!!!
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)And no comments?
Doesn't look good does it? Only a republican could love all that.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)I tend to live in the present and look toward the future.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Is to put Hillary supporters on the spot and get them to debate the serious issues. Unfortunately, they won't debate, and I figure it is because they know better than to openly support warmongering?
The future is: War could break out at any moment, and if we have a president who is prone to launch invasions then the risk is great. That's why I support Bernie, because he as shown that launching an invasion is the last thing he would do.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)The Contention is: Hillary's bad judgment makes her unfit to be Commander-In-Chief.
Now you preface it by suggesting that I have to suppress my Warmongering Agenda. I could go through item by item but why waste my time? And all of your "points" are seriously flawed. They are biased to the 100th degree.
Oh, and have you actually met Bernie Sanders? Do you know him? What scares me about Senator Sanders is what excites you. When faced with a crisis he will have a bakers dozen of people that will be feeding him information and making suggestions for addressing the crisis. I don't think Senator Sanders could handle that. I fear his extreme narcissistic personality would cause him to make terrible decisions.
Hillary just received another of several endorsements she got just in the last few days. This time by F-15 pilot, Former Ambassador, Brigadier General Jim Smith.
And I quote........
Americans would be well served having Secretary Clinton's tenacity and judgement in the White House. At home and abroad, she has taken on tough fights and delivered.
http://www.eagletribune.com/opinion/column-using-benghazi-incident-for-political-gain-is-shameful/article_11e73f1a-a453-5609-b3c2-318d9936029d.html
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)And Libya lay in ruins.
One needs to look at past votes.
GW wanted to make war on Iraq, and she voted yes. Bernie voted NO, as did half of the Democrats in congress.
As for your smear on Bernie? Well, par for the course.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)What school of Criss Angel contortion did it take to arrive at that conclusion?
postatomic
(1,771 posts)And the point I made about Snark & Gotcha' is once more; reaffirmed. You have a wonderful day.
villager
(26,001 posts)It hasn't been that.... for years.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)because of "reasons".
elleng
(130,767 posts)O'Malley's plans, to start:
15 Goals to Rebuild the American Dream
https://martinomalley.com/category/15-goals/
Addiction treatment and prevention
https://martinomalley.com/policy/addiction-treatment-and-prevention/
Criminal Justice Reform
https://martinomalley.com/policy/criminal-justice/
Making College Debt Free for all Americans
https://martinomalley.com/policy/make-college-debt-free/
Holding Wall Street Accountable
https://14d2r744okfe40r1ug1oqm6y-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/OMalley-Wall-Street-Reform.pdf
Expanding Social Security
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/expanding-social-security/
Homeland Security
https://martinomalley.com/vision/homeland-security/
Immigration
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/immigration/
National Service
https://martinomalley.com/national-service/
Environment
https://martinomalley.com/climate/iowa/
https://martinomalley.com/climate/
https://martinomalley.com/climate/agenda/
Foreign Policy
https://martinomalley.com/policy/truman-national-security/
Gun Reform
https://martinomalley.com/policy/preventing-and-reducing-gun-violence/
Trade Policy
https://martinomalley.com/policy/trade-policy/
Campaign Finance Reform (Restoring our American Democracy)
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/restoring-our-american-democracy/
Why We Need a Constitutional Amendment to Secure the Right to Vote:
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/news/right-to-vote/