Do people who post negative stuff here about Hillary

[cosmicone]

know that they have so far changed ZERO minds towards supporting Bernie but at least 5 who were turned off by their posts and are now supporting Hillary?

Are they expecting a different result whilst continuing to do the same thing?

[bravenak]

1. Same folks thought they could Harass African Americans into loving Bernie. Did not work.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. Okay. N/T

[bravenak]

6. I warned you personally how this looked.nt

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Okay. N/T

[sheshe2]

27. Fact. NT

[azurnoir]

46. ya sure go with that

[bravenak]

51. I will because it is true and they are to dishonest to admit they messed up.

They instead want to blame the messenger, get all passive aggressive and self righteous and look bad. Article after article has been written about their behaivior but yet and still, they think they are the victims and rest of us just too stupid to understand the gift of Bernie. If anything has turned me off it is the way folks who were cool before lost it and started sniping at me one by one until I just have to shoo them away like FLIES. One by one they come to insult me and play passive aggressive games and then wonder why I say what I say. It is because of how they turned so fast. How nasty they got. How they refuse to even see what they look like. How they STILL come at me one by one with nasty insults and pat themselves on the back like they did the right thing. Like I deserve it. Like I am not even a real person. Hmm. Yeah. It looks good. One by one sniping at the same black lady day after day with the insults. Nothing to see here folks! She's bullying us singlehandedly.

[azurnoir]

62. so what is it your saying here

are you saying that your opinions should go unchallenged on a discussion board or that the only reason your opinions are being challenged is that you're Black? or what here? Or because you're Black we white folk should just shutup or what?

[bravenak]

66. People can challenge whatever they want. But playing victim is weak and pathetic.

Especially when it's one me against all of them. When it comes to matters of race, this board has many who do not understand much AT ALL about black people. But they insist they know more than us, the black people. Yes. We have LOOOOONG running jokes about being 'schooled' on black issues by white folks who read a Salon.com article that they thought gave them the position of authority to 'school' us. Yes. We laugh. Been laughing at the terrible tactics, the horrible attitudes, the lofty proclamations of bernie having no problem with blacks, "look a facebook page proves it.".

We go back to out black websites and discuss the blindness. We read articles by black bloggers repeating the same exact things I say unto you all. Article after article, so yes, challenge me. I can take it!! One by one, day after day, until the election. But challenging me won't help Bernie!!! Lordy lordy I hope black folks that lurk get a glimpse of this. I try to recruit but they take one look and ask my why I post with those... Anyways. Yes. Enjoy your challenge. I already won but go ahead, it's fine with me.

[azurnoir]

80. so now you're saying I'm playing victim?

[bravenak]

90. Not really. Just saying what I see round here.

That issue has ALSO been the subject of much discussion.

[SusanaMontana41]

196. I love your circular logic.

If I were a man, I'd be hard.

[bravenak]

199. Life is a circle.

[SusanaMontana41]

207. Oooh. That's deep.

[Number23]

192. I laugh my ass off at the ones with the "but my Twitter/Facebook feed confirms that I know black

people better than black DUers!!one"

And it's no coincidence that the ones always doing that are ALWAYS the ones that none of us would give the time of day to. Patronizing as hell, when they're not spamming this board with one idiotic OP after another that does nothing but beautifully illustrate that what they actually know is fuck all.

[sheshe2]

84. Please stop.

Take a breath. Your post was nasty.

Or because you're Black we white folk should just shutup or what?

Why do you post this stuff, why so nasty? I am white. No one asked me to shut up. I am a welcomed member in the AA group. In the beginning I asked bravenak if it was okay for me to post there. I went their quietly and respectfully and posted. I talk...yet I listen.

[azurnoir]

86. I wasn't being nasty at all I asked a question you truncated the comment to focus on that part

it was part of broader set of questions I talk and I listen here and in IRL where I lived it too - you?

[azurnoir]

88. moreover

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1170297#post2


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2776890#2777541

[DemocratSinceBirth]

118. You can do a google search

Bravenak said she "hated" Hillary...

I would like to think she is now supporting Hillary because other Hillary supporters didn't browbeat her for her heterodoxy and accepted her just as she was, the way all of us have a right to be accepted.

I would also like to think she took the time to see that three of Hillary's closest and longest tenured advisers are two African American women and an Arab American one.

As a white guy I feel I learn more about black and other folks by actually listening to them instead of talking at them.

[azurnoir]

122. supporting a candidate based not on the candidate themself but rather on that candidates supporters

makes no sense to me what so ever but whatever works

[DemocratSinceBirth]

123. That is what I hear

A candidate becomes a reflection of his or her supporters.

[azurnoir]

125. No the argument amounts to policies be damned record be damned

I don't like some of folks that support him so I won't support him- and ya know when it comes to DU some of Bernie's supporters here are people I've been at odds with for years but really that doesn't amount to a hill of beans for me, what does matter to me are his policies and record of consistency, not saying just anything to select audiences to get a vote, and the possibility of change, real change

[DemocratSinceBirth]

126. The president is an executive or administrator.

He needs the cooperation of others to get things done. That is where his supporters come in.

[azurnoir]

136. so what are you saying here? are rearranging 'supporter' to mean those already holding governmental

office, because that's the only way your comment makes sense.

[whatchamacallit]

164. Of all the idiot memes

this one may be the most idiotic. Bernie is busy running a campaign. He doesn't have the time or ability to police his internet supporters any more than Hillary does. Contrary to Hillclan belief, you guys are every bit as vicious and off-putting as you claim Bernie supporters are. This "Bernie has failed as a leader" bullshit is probable the most duplicitous and/or ignorant excuse ever.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

165. I used to get upset by all the poison here...

Of all the idiot memes this one may be the most idiotic. Bernie is busy running a campaign. He doesn't have the time or ability to police his internet supporters any more than Hillary does. Contrary to Hillclan belief, you guys are every bit as vicious and off-putting as you claim Bernie supporters are. This "Bernie has failed as a leader" bullshit is probable the most duplicitous, and/or ignorant excuse ever.

-whatchamacallit

I used to get upset by all the poison here and respond in kind but then I was reminded of Friedrich Nietzsche's admonition to "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster..." and from now on I willi just take the poison in stride.

I figure there will be three to four more months of this and then DU will be same happy haven it was when I discovered it over twelve years ago.

May the rest of your life be the best of your life.

PEACE
DSB

[Squinch]

182. In the past I would have agreed with you. However, watching what has been going

on at DU, I wonder.

As I have said before, my only priority is to prevent a Republican from taking the White House. I have said all along that my choice will be the person who is most likely to do that at primary time. I'll happily vote for Sanders, Clinton or O'Malley.

The thing is, when I see the way the Bernie supporters behave here, I am appalled. (And yes, I am a neutral party in that particular fight, and the Bernie supporters are much, much worse than the Hillary supporters.) And I am beginning to worry about how they will behave if Bernie does win the nomination.

If those supporters can't avoid pissing off someone like me, who is favorably disposed toward Bernie, they certainly can't be trusted to avoid turning off people who we need to vote for the Democrat who might be less left-leaning. These supporters are a REAL liability for him. I fear that if he wins the nomination, they will fuck up the general election for him with their cult-like nonsense.

Bernie's supporters ARE beginning to figure into my equation about whether Bernie can with the election, and therefore they ARE beginning to figure into my equation about who I will vote for in the primary.

[brush]

201. Seems to me the Sanders supporters on this board went way over board

Their anti-Hillary post, and the mean-spiritness/Bernie-or-bust nature of them far outnumber the anti-Sanders posts.

And remember, Hillary supporters almost always say they will support Sanders if he gets the nomination, unlike mpst of the Sanders supporters. What kind of Democrats do that?

Such a tiresome turn off, so tiresome that I stopped clicking on them weeks ago.

You can bet supporters can sway opinions, and in this case, negatively.

[daybranch]

71. Many of my African American friends find Hillary in their words smarmy.

I did not harass them. I did not supply the words. Maybe they want someone better. It seems to me that if you personally took a day off, the pro Hillary and the anti-Bernie messages would be reduced by a large percentage. Maybe you are amplifying your opinion in your own mind by posting the same stuff so often. Go Bernie!

[bravenak]

77. Good for them. I have my issues too. But Hillary over Bernie. Done.

[Cal33]

142. Pro Bernie fans form the vast majority here. It's just the opposite. It's the

pro Hillary fans who are trying to make converts. We are mostly replying to
their points, and they are getting nowhere.

[bravenak]

163. We do not need converts.

[msanthrope]

200. We don't need converts. We have the numbers, and the Party

machine.

[Cal33]

203. The first Dem. Primary is on Feb. 1, 2016, and the last is Hawaii on June 14, 2016. There

is still a lot of time. DU is already heavily pro Bernie. And he is gaining hand over fist
every day on the outside.

The Dem. establishment will be changed, too. The Rep.-lites have had more than
enough time to show that they are not up to the job. The Reps. have become stronger
over the past 3+ decades, and the Dems. weaker.

We need someone like Bernie to begin to really change. This could be our last chance.
I'd hate it to see our nation become a Fascist dictatorship. This is what will happen if
we continue with our more of the same.

[msanthrope]

206. Yeah...but here's the thing. I actually attend the Dem

Party meetings. The Bernie supporters are no where to be found.

[aikoaiko]

197. Its unclear if anything would have worked or will work.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. You should rejoice!

We Berniebros will win the election for Hillary.

[bravenak]

7. Already did THAT.nt

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Okay. N/T

[bravenak]

16. Glad you see it now.nt

[sheshe2]

28. Lol~ Yup!

[whatchamacallit]

4. None of them were genuine supporters

None.

[lunamagica]

5. I've wondered that. They are preaching to the choir. They get 50 or more rec's and get all excited

but actually the recs all come from their fellow Sander supporters.

This is getting so tiresome. But I just keep telling myself that this will last just a few more months. I truly believe Hillary will win the nomination sooner that many expect, and then all this nonsense will end.

[gwheezie]

10. It made me pay more attention to bernie

Because I thought I like the guy but maybe I'm missing something. His supporters just reinforce what I originally thought. He's not going to be able to garner enough support to win the GE.

[beam me up scottie]

11. How many minds were changed by these posts?:

According to Hillary supporters on DU Bernie is Israel's #1 shill, a racist, gun nut, scheming little sneak, scumbag, pandering phony braggart with some kind of emotional instability, tool for the NRA, Republican man with his head between women's legs, who protects the minutemen militia, pedophiles, racist cops, has rape fantasies, thinks that orgasms prevent cancer and is supported by Stormfront.

[bravenak]

12. You keep posting that, yet he is still losing. Maybe it's not effective. Like spam. Loses meaning.

[beam me up scottie]

13. Okay. n/t

[bravenak]

15. Awesome.nt

[bvf]

17. That's an impressive compilation of ugliness, there. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

20. Yes it is, and it keeps growing.

I don't know anyone who can look at that and think it's acceptable to say such vile things about a Democratic candidate.

[bvf]

31. Yikes. Just read the scumbag one.

Hope you took your time compiling these. You could get sick by reading them in succession without a break.

[beam me up scottie]

38. That's nothing, you should see what they say about Bernie at their website.

These are just the ones they thought they could get away with posting here.

The hatred for the progressive Senator from Vermont is enough to make anyone sick.

[bvf]

49. I don't even want to know.

But I go way back on Usenet to well before when it was still news that the Unification Church owned The Washington Times.

Which by the way appears to be popular reading in some quarters hereabouts.

[beam me up scottie]

53. I noticed that too.

Funny how right wing sources are just dandy if they publish hit pieces on Bernie.

That thread didn't go as planned, fortunately.

[Buzz cook]

70. Or if they publish

Hit pieces on Clinton. No clean hands in that one.

[bvf]

74. Is that how you determine whether a news source is

right-wing? How do you define "hit piece"? Anything at all critical of her shifting opinions?

[beam me up scottie]

76. True but the HC supporters who complained about it the most turned around and did the same thing.

These past three days have been a tribute to hypocrisy.

No right wing sources should be used here. On DU2 the mods would have taken care of it but now some juries let the posts stay.

And imo anyone who links to a hate site should be banned.

[bvf]

72. Thanks for the reminder.

I mean to revisit that one.

[cosmicone]

143. Obsessed with the other site ... noted. n/t

[whatchamacallit]

167. That's rich

Your posts are a litany of other side obsession.

[cosmicone]

170. I said "siTe" not "siDe"

Perhaps you have cataracts like I did

[beam me up scottie]

187. It's the other way around.

When another website alert stalks DUers and posts personal information about them I think they're the ones who are obsessed.

[cosmicone]

188. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha

is the NSA reading your thoughts too?

[beam me up scottie]

189. Do you really want me to start posting screenshots again?

Because there are literally dozens of them proving that the site is being used to attack DUers.

[cosmicone]

191. The same boring screenshots that prove nothing?

bwahahahahahahahahahaha

[sheshe2]

32. These are from all those bookmarks you mentioined???

The ones you are collecting. Lol!

[beam me up scottie]

36. What bookmarks? Are you stalking me, she?

I know how you guys like to keep tabs on me at your website, I'm flattered.

If you want to know about me, just ask.

[JTFrog]

127. Reading this thread, it sounds more like you keep tabs on them.

Just sayin...

[beam me up scottie]

186. I'm not the one trying to find facebook accounts and digging up personal info on others.

The members of that website have also bragged about alert stalking DUers and "prodding" them into hides.

Keeping tabs on your stalkers is not stalking.

Just sayin...

[cui bono]

61. Did the infamous "Not Enough, Bernie" drop off your link list?

That was an epic fail. If that poster had any conscience or self-awareness at all they would be too embarrassed to keep posting here.

[beam me up scottie]

67. Nope, that one and the minutemen op are still included.

I can't figure it out either, it's like they forgot they ever posted them.

No shame.

[NBachers]

14. Keep hitting Hillary. See how that all works out.

I just love opening up Democratic Underground and seeing a slew of Hillary is Real Bad posts, right up at the top.

It makes me want to come back and open up Democratic Underground again, real soon!

[bvf]

22. You don't have to read them, do you?

[NBachers]

23. I don't

[sheshe2]

40. Hey, you~

I say little here now, everything is a hide. I embraced the fact that the census says we will no longer be a white America by 2040.

Lol~! I got a hide for saying it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118730989

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118731651

Hey you, love you NBachers.

[NBachers]

52. I'm glad to see that you haven't gone too deep undercover Sheshe. It's reassuring to have you around

[sheshe2]

69. I am still here.

Quietly~

I want my voice back without fear of a hide.

Hugs.

[JDPriestly]

43. It isn't the fault of Bernie supporters that Hillary is such a bad candidate.

She changes her mind as the polls go up and down. New information, my eye?

She went to law school. She read the cases regarding homosexuality. She had to have known what the issue entails. It's ridiculous that her supporters have to make excuses for her all the time.

And wait till the Republicans start pounding her on her donations both to her foundation and to her campaign.

She is a lost election walking.

She is not a viable candidate. Sorry. It is not the fault of Bernie supporters that she has so many negatives and is so untrustworthy.

We just point to the facts. The Hillary supporters are in denial -- most of them anyway. Some are just cynical.

[BlueCaliDem]

130. Right. That's why Hillary Clintin is beating him by double digits.

Because "she's such a bad candidate". In what universe?

She changes her mind as the polls go up and down. New information, my eye?

And that's a bad thing in a democracy how? A good leader doesn't talk AT their constituents. They listen and talk with them. Only in a totalitarian country is NOT changing one's mind considered a plus - oh, and in Teapublican country, too.

And wait till the Republicans start pounding her on her donations both to her foundation and to her campaign.

They've already done that...and it went nowhere. You would've seen it had you not been so focused on attacking her supporters and actually listened to the noise around you.

She is a lost election walking.

Wishful thinking doesn't make it a reality.

She is not a viable candidate. Sorry. It is not the fault of Bernie supporters that she has so many negatives and is so untrustworthy.

Tell that to 80% of African Americans and 73% of both Hispanic/Latino and Asian Americans. Because they must not have gotten your memo.

And those "negatives" and that "untrustworthy" labels are Republican labels and talking points. Try to keep those out of your posts if you want anyone (outside of Sanders Land) to take you seriously, JD.

[msongs]

18. so after the primaries/election will mr sanders still claim he is a democrat if he loses? hmm nt

[Hekate]

42. No, but he will want to primary the next Democratic president.

Guaranteed.

[Scootaloo]

78. You think he'll still be around by then?

I mean if Clinton's the nominee, Sanders will have to wait at least eight years, possibly twelve, to talk about primarying a democratic incumbent.

[brush]

202. Maybe not eight years. He talked about primarying Obama after four years in office.

[AgingAmerican]

19. Do people who post negative stuff here about Bernie

know that they have so far changed ZERO minds towards supporting Hillary but at least 5 who were turned off by their posts and are now supporting Bernie?

Are they expecting a different result whilst continuing to do the same thing?

[Eric J in MN]

25. Very good. Equal evidence of these effects. NT

NT

[bahrbearian]

101. I've seen 12 post where Clinton Supporters changed their support

to Sanders because of the Pettiness of HRC campaign

[cosmicone]

109. LMAO .. I love these posts hahahahahaha

If someone posts "Hillary looked great in a blue pantsuit" some Bernie fan immediately posts another OP saying "Bernie looks great in blue suit."

It takes me back in time to the early years in intermediate school.

[tazkcmo]

121. "It takes me back in time to the early years in intermediate school."

As evidenced by your bug swatter. Soooo grown up.

[LuvLoogie]

21. As elected officials, activists and organizations

continue to coalesce around Hillary Clinton, the not-Hillary Party's disillusion will grow.

Everyone who has endorsed Hillary knows her flaws. They just don't fixate on them or morbidly hope for her failure.

She has been building her relationships nationally and internationally for decades, while Bernie just now exits his cloister in Vermont.

The Revolution feels disrespected and insists on being inspired by he/she who would carry their banner. But who in their ranks has yet done the sustained ground work? Who has taken up the arduous commitment of turning ideas into policy?

[Hekate]

44. Ground work, indeed. We had serious complaints here that the DNC is not doing voter reg at ....

....Bernie's big rallies. A number of us explained as kindly as we could that that is the job of a candidate's supporters in the early days and months, not the DNC.

Still don't know if that sank in or if the faithful are still resentful.

[Jamaal510]

24. In the beginning,

I liked him the most. But I began looking beyond what he says on economic topics and checked out his stances on other topics and the lack of attention he devotes toward foreign policy and social policy. I also disagreed with how he deemed O-care a "modest achievement", and him jumping to conclusions on the TPP without reading it in its entirety first. Between that and the behavior of many in his camp towards non-supporters within the party, I'm less enthused about his candidacy than I used to be.

[bvf]

33. Do you have a citation

for the phrase you just quoted?

Context you know.

[JDPriestly]

45. The TPP is now available and can be read by all of us thanks to a New Zealand court that

ordered its publication.

Have you read it?

And if so, do you support it?

If not, how can you support Hillary?

She changed her mind on the TPP after praising it for years. She will change it again as soon as the pressure mounts if she wins the White House.

For me, the TPP is such a serious threat to our Constitution and our democracy that I cannot vote for any candidate who supports it.

We need to get out of some of our trade agreements and get them amended or rewritten to eliminate the arbitration courts they set up. Those courts are not in the tradition of our law. They are an abomination.

Obamacare is a modest achievement. It has not done nearly enough to lower healthcare costs because it has not reduced or eliminated the profits that the health insurance companies pilfer off the top of our insurance premiums. It has also left many people uninsured. We need single payer in one form or another so that we have the system that other countries that have better healthcare outcomes and less expensive yet far more coverage than we do.

[cosmicone]

110. Great, rational and cogent post. Thank you. n/t

[Jim Lane]

141. But Hillary took MULTIPLE positions on the TPP without reading it in its entirety first

You criticize Bernie Sanders for allegedly "jumping to conclusions on the TPP without reading it in its entirety first."

Please note that Hillary Clinton called it the "gold standard" without reading it in its entirety first, because when she said that it hadn't yet been finalized. Then when it was finalized, at a time when Sanders had been making inroads partly by criticizing it, she expressed her (somewhat tepid) opposition, again without reading it in its entirety first, because although it had been finalized it hadn't been publicly released and she wouldn't have had time to read and master thousands of pages of highly technical material anyway.

Now, since the Clinton supporters always decry anything negative about Clinton, and (somewhat hypocritically) demand that supporters of other candidates restrict themselves to posting positive things about their candidates, let me try to oblige. In late stages of the TPP negotiations, no one, except the negotiators (including their numerous corporate lobbyist collaborators) had seen anything official. Nevertheless, near-final drafts of several of the chapters were leaked. Their authenticity was not denied by any of the negotiating countries, AFAIK. Multiple NGOs were able to review the chapters in their areas of expertise and point out serious problems. Based on that information, Martin O'Malley and Bernie Sanders both came out against the deal, and also came out against fast-tracking it.

When Congress was considering fast track, all the candidates had a choice: Say nothing about TPP and fast track, or make the common-sense assumption that late-stage drafts, reflecting several years of negotiations, were not going to be substantially changed in the final few months. They could also take note that reading a proposed agreement in its entirety before voting on it was going to be very difficult if a huge and complex agreement were dumped on Congress under fast-track rules that put tight time limits on each step of Congress's consideration.

Faced with that choice, O'Malley and Sanders both came out against fast track and against the TPP. I believe they did the right thing. I believe that both of them showed leadership. I believe that both of them exhibited a willingness to stand up to big business. I believe that both of them enhanced their credentials for the Presidency. The foregoing positive comments are offered as a public service announcement for the benefit of Clinton supporters who have complained that there aren't enough of such comments.

[emulatorloo]

26. There are 5 obnoxious Bernie posters and 5 obnoxious HRC posters

First off let's be clear I am not talking about negative talk/criticism about policy.

I am talking about character attacks, half-truth smears, etc.


Okay maybe 7 to 10 ha ha. They are super loud. They post multiple threads per day and respond to almost ever thread on DU with some kind of over the top bile or bumper-sticker sloganeering.

Signal to noise ratio? A lot of noise, not much signal

The obnoxious Bernie posters get tons of recs cause they are skilled at writing click-bait and flame-bait.

The obnoxious HRC ones are clumsy and loud but aren't as good at composing click-bait thread titles.

None of them have a clue about how to convince voters to vote for their candidate.

Some of them may not even CARE about convincing voters at all. Just here for noise making and rec collection.

Some of them may well be GOP operatives here to stir up shit and get us at each other's throats.

Or freeper-types pretending to be Dems hoping to just fuck DU up.

JMHO, of course.

[Armstead]

29. Last I heard this is a political discussion board

I think that means you discuss, whether that means to praise, criticize, express opinions, debate, sometimes argue.

I think it's called freedom of expression.

[Scootaloo]

30. Do you think calling Sanders a segregationist rapist gun nut made anyone support Clinton?

[bravenak]

35. Don't need folks to switch FROM Berni TO Clinton. Just need to treadwater. Worse for Bernies side to

drive away voters. Math.

[Scootaloo]

47. You think so?

How do you plan on that working out in the general, exactly? Have Clinton's followers actually thought that far ahead? Is there a game plan for after she runs her campaign against Sanders like Kissinger ran his against Cambodia?

I hope the plan isn't "appeal to Republican crossover."

[azurnoir]

48. Here's the thing what makes you think we bother with folks posting here?

DU is not the world but DU can be a really good source for idea's

[bravenak]

56. I am stating facts. I love Obama, not the rest.

I could have gone either way. So could most blacks. One thing we are monolithic in is LOVING OBAMA. Hillary plays up to that, Bernie is the anti Obama. There is and idea to think about. Maybe listen to what black folks say cause we remember the shit Bill did. But why go Bernie?? No reason. He has no relationship with us. He may have one with you, but not us.
Policy does not trump time put in.

[azurnoir]

58. oh plueez we've been over this Bernie stumped for Obama in 2012

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=726737

[bravenak]

59. So what? That means we forget he wanted him primaried? Nope!! We remember EVERYTHING.

[azurnoir]

64. apparently not it was about possible cuts to Social Security

context can be really helpful sometimes

Today, while appearing on Thom Hartmann’s radio show, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) — who, while being an independent, caucuses with the Democrats — said that one way progressives can make sure Obama does not enact huge cuts to major social programs is to run a primary challenger against him. Sanders told a listener who called in to protest a debt ceiling deal that cuts Social Security that such a challenge would be a “good idea”:

SANDERS: Brian, believe me, I wish I had the answer to your question. Let me just suggest this. I think there are millions of Americans who are deeply disappointed in the president; who believe that, with regard to Social Security and a number of other issues, he said one thing as a candidate and is doing something very much else as a president; who cannot believe how weak he has been, for whatever reason, in negotiating with Republicans and there’s deep disappointment. So my suggestion is, I think one of the reasons the president has been able to move so far to the right is that there is no primary opposition to him and I think it would do this country a good deal of service if people started thinking about candidates out there to begin contrasting what is a progressive agenda as opposed to what Obama is doing. […] So I would say to Ryan [sic] discouragement is not an option. I think it would be a good idea if President Obama faced some primary opposition.

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/07/22/277124/bernie-sanders-primary-obama/

[bravenak]

79. So, over something that never happened? Does not help.

[azurnoir]

81. yep over something was a possibility at the time and then didn't happen later

context is important

[bravenak]

89. Nobody is going to care for context.

Just banners saying HE WANTED TO PRIMARY OBAMA. You know that.

[azurnoir]

91. interesting you're actually going to admit to that tactic

well if you wish to believe folks are that simple minded be my guest

[bravenak]

92. It is the way of the world. People have short attention spans.

Most will just read the headline.
You can sometimes see it in how you can link to the wrong thing, and it takes fifty replies sometimes for someone to say 'Bad link'. Here is is a bit different, but most places, yeah, maybe nobody will even say bad link.

[azurnoir]

96. so you're counting on the lowest common denominator?

[bvf]

93. Is that your opinion of the Average American Voter?

What are you doing to change that, or do think banners with bumpersticker messages should drive the campaign? That's clearly what Clinton is counting on.

[azurnoir]

95. oh well here I thought we were talking about Democrats not average American voters overall

[bravenak]

100. Average humans only listen if they are interested.nt

[bvf]

124. And you're OK with disinterested, low-information

voters?

[cosmicone]

134. It is typical isn't it?

Any post that says, "Bernie is X" has to be responded with "Hillary is X too"

[840high]

34. The fly swatter made me more determined

to work for Bernie. Grave dancing sux.

[MoonRiver]

176. You are mourning the death of a cyber fly?

[840high]

183. You darn well know the reason for the swatter.

[silvershadow]

37. Anyone who would change their vote because of what someone says on the internet

is a straight-up idiot. I don't think ANY candidate should suffer because of what anyone else says, but I suppose it happens.

[pinstikfartherin]

39. If you change your mind about a candidate based on DU members...

you need to check your politics.

NO ONE SIDE is clean here, and the ones pointing fingers in every damn thread? They're the problem. There are nasty Bernie supporters here and nasty Hillary supporters. They're vocal. They stir the pot. They add nothing to the discussion.

If we're going to go by posters being negative, we should all be supporting O'Malley because his supporters at least stick to the issues and don't get caught in this flame war shit that's turned DU into a high school lunchroom.

[SusanaMontana41]

50. We sound just like Congress, don't we? n/t

[pinstikfartherin]

54. Hah! Agreed! nt

[BlueMTexpat]

75. Good point.

I can only speak for myself, of course. I have zero evidence of any other DUer's behavior.

But while I am a Hillary supporter, who considers Bernie a good challenger and love how he is pushing the dialogue to the left, I personally now support O'Malley as my second preference instead of Bernie for the following reasons:

a) He is every bit as good as Bernie on so-called "progressive" issues and actually implemented progressive policies as governor of MD.
b) He has none of the "baggage" associated with either Hillary or Bernie. Yes, there are some vocal and nasty Marylanders who do not like him, but they were likely not Dems in the first place. MD is my voting residence; he was my governor for two terms and every MD Dem I know likes him, even if most of them are now supporting Hillary as their first choice. That is anecdotal, but it is also true and I actually know quite a few active MD Dems, some of whom have also held political office in the state.
c) He is a lifelong Dem and does not have to prove his "Dem" stripes, as Bernie still must, even though it is true that he has primarily supported Dem actions and policies. Specifically running away from the "Dem" label in the past has not helped Bernie with that.
d) He is younger than either Hillary or Bernie. Bernie is even older than I am - and that's pretty old. While I am still pretty active - I've been only semi-retired for years - the job of President takes a LOT of stamina these days. Look at how even Prez O has aged since 2008. Hillary has at least shown - to the world - that she can withstand solid hours of questioning by hostile political foes, she also has the globe-trotting credentials to show that she knows and understands what is happening in the world and that she can also be tough. Bernie has so far only had to deal with generally friendly audiences and questioners; when confronted with something off-script or that doesn't deal specifically with inequality, he isn't quite as quick on his feet. Martin has also dealt successfully with most MD GOPers in politics, although it must also be said that most internal MD GOPers aren't usually as insane as those who make it to the federal level.
e) And yes, the OPs consistently trashing Hillary have put me off Bernie's campaign altogether. I have personally received nasty argumentative responses to my comments from some of Bernie's so-called "supporters" - most of those "supporters" are now on my "Ignore" list. I was also blocked from posting in the BS group because I only asked that people stop trashing Hillary.
f) O'Malley's DU supporters have consistently been those who have most adhered to DU guidelines, both in their OPs and their comments. They do not gratuitously slur either Hillary or Bernie.

So in my case, my mind has been changed from Bernie to Martin for my second choice. And yes, the constant stream of nasty OPs trashing Hillary and repeating GOPer TPs has indeed been a factor in that decision.

That said, I will still be proud to support any one of these three candidates, provided that candidate wins the Dem nomination. But Hillary is now and remains my first preference.

[MoonRiver]

106. Righteous rant!

[Puglover]

155. Agreed the second I see that moronic argument

I pay as much attention to a poster that spouts it as I do an ant on the sidewalk. Actually the ant would have more credibility IMHO.

[SusanaMontana41]

208. Yep.

Stop baiting, and stop taking the bait.

[cantbeserious]

41. Do People Who Support HRC Know They Have Changed No Minds

eom

[cui bono]

55. Do people know that most of the people who claimed to be Bernie supporters who flipped to Hillary

were never Bernie supporters to begin with? And one of the most vocal who said that Bernie supporters turned them to Hillary was outed as already having declared support for Hillary months before their new declaration of just having become a Hillary supporter.

God this crap is so old. Why don't you stop complaining and get your own house in order?

[cui bono]

57. Do people who post on the hate spewing Clinton Cave site know that they have so far changed

MANY minds about their character and are no longer taken seriously by most DUers?

Are they expecting a different result whilst continuing to participate on a site where people act like teabaggers?

[Scuba]

105. /\_/\_This right here_/\_/\

[cosmicone]

111. Obsessed with the other site ... still.... noted. n/t

[polly7]

116. Like an abuser telling his punching bag to 'get over it'.

I'm not sure why you expect people who've been called horrible things and accused of the nastiest garbage to just forget about it - with no acknowledgement, no apology ......... nothing. Yet expected to be polite and take seriously those who reveled in it - and still do, here.

Why should they???

[cosmicone]

119. Melodrama

If I were to delve into psychodynamics, Bernie supporters were feeling empowered in posting negative stuff about Hillary whilst silencing Hillary supporters with the stacked jury system. It would make people feel powerful and in control.

The other site simply gave a refuge to silenced people who could discuss without the control and power exercised over them.

To use your analogy, criticizing the "other site" is more like an abuser complaining about a battered women's shelter.

[polly7]

120. The 'melodrama' was all over the site used to post the filthiest, ugliest crap

about people here.

Too bad there were screenshots before it got all blocked off, eh?

A refuge, lol! More like the quiet corner outside the elementary school where the mean girls gather to rant, laugh and plot.

[cosmicone]

131. The filth and ugly is in your mind

The site actually has happy people having fun ... just because someone cannot control what goes on there is no reason to denigrate people's right to free speech. It is about control ... DU's majority cannot control what is posted there and what bothers the people in control is that they cannot do a damn thing about the "other site."

No one stops people from forming a pro-Bernie or even a pro-Trump site and I for one wouldn't have a problem if all the anti-Hillary threads were posted on some other devotional site of St. Bernie.

[polly7]

139. Nah ....... it's in the screenshots. nt.

[cosmicone]

145. Did they hurt your internet feelings?

awwwwwwwwwwww .. I'm sooooooo sorry

[polly7]

147. Oh, not mine!

As I told someone else, the childish attacks and accusations against me bother me about as much as not knowing the IQ of a gnat .... but when I see it done to others, yes it does hurt my feelings. I can't stand bullying, online or in real life.

The only thing you're sorry about is those screenshots, don't be disingenuous.

[the_sly_pig]

60. The irony thickens....

[DFW]

63. I doubt that any negative posts about ANY Democrat have changed anyone's primary preferences

And I mean in one direction or the other. I think they are mostly "feel-good" posts to make the poster and like-minded posters do just that: feel good.

As for me, I am still listening to all three. My first contribution was months ago to Bernie Sanders ($150 for the record) because I wanted his voice heard--you can't make an educated choice if you don't know what the choices are, after all. His voice IS now being heard, and I think that is a good thing. I agree with his supporters to the extent that his message should be an important part of the debate, and that Hillary needs to earn the nomination as much as any other candidate--no one other than a sitting president running for re-election should have a free ride to the party's presidential nomination.

On the other hand, I agree that the nasty stuff is pretty much useless and just grates on tempers. I try to ignore it, and refuse to let any of it influence my ultimate choice. When I end up giving my primary vote, it won't be because some post on DU told me I'm an idiot if I don't vote their personal preference.

[Buzz cook]

65. Many people don't like Bernie its just that

They hate Hillary. So they can't post positive things about Bernie, only negative things about Clinton.

[TSIAS]

98. Ridiculous

If you don't think politicians like Sen. Sanders and Warren have a passionate base of support within the Democratic Party, you are terribly mistaken. Their positions are so popular that Clinton is trying to emulate them and pretend she was with them all along.

[Buzz cook]

205. Yes

There are people who a passionate fans of Sanders or O'Malley. There are also people who support them because they are the anti-Clintons

[cosmicone]

112. Some truth to that. n/t

[rpannier]

68. Define negative

I have nothing against Clinton, but I have asked friends of mine who support her to point out what she's done for people of color in her career and they give me very little in response. Some cannot point to anything substantive that makes her position on any one issue better than Sanders or O'Malley
She vigorously supported 3-Strikes, Mandatory Minimums, NAFTA, she 'evolved' on gay marriage, as she has apparently evolved on the TPP.
I am curious how she felt about Bill flying back to Arkansas to make sure that a mentally challenged African-American man was executed when he was running the first time.
About Bill's equating Obama with Jesse Jackson in a negative way (the same Jesse Jackson that rushed to defend Bill after we learned Clinton really did have a thing with her in the oval office). Or how about her support for the credit reform bill in 2001. The really crappy one that died. She voted for it.
Or, how about Bill signing the repeal of the Glass-Steagel Act. Is she good with that? He still denies it had any effect on the meltdown in 2007/08

I think the mistake you're making is equating DU with talking to people face-to-face.
I've had several Clinton supporters say that they'd have to think about it.
Whether they vote for her or not is their business. If they do, I'm good with it.
If they vote for O' Malley, I'm good with that too
I'm happier if they vote Sanders
My guess is, the next time we talk, they'll have found something new to talk about regarding Clinton.
Maybe they'll change their mind and say they're thinking about voting for O'Malley or Sanders.
Maybe, they'll come back just as strongly for Clinton.

Most important, I hope they come back with more stuff for me to think about and ponder as well.

In fairness to them and me, we've been going back and forth for a couple of months (not a lot). They make points, I make points (briefly). We discuss it again a few weeks later. etc.
It's nothing intense.
We're friends. We don't let minor political differences change that

BTW: Kudos to you for posting this in General Forum Primaries. Too many people post these kinds of things in their group forum which keeps out any sort of criticism
Though, based on some of the flinging that they endure, I do understand why people do it

[daybranch]

73. We say look at the issues. You say Hillary is going to win over and over.

It is clear to us that the country is run by an oligarchy and Hillary is basically the negotiator for that oligarchy giving us a little bit here and there to stem the tide of revolution. We Bernie people just favor Democracy over the oligarchy.

[Betty Karlson]

82. Is that the new meme?

Stop posting negative stuff about Hillary because it doesn't work?

I'm sorry, but the lesser of two evils comes with some negative stuff. When you ask us to shut up about that, it's just one more attempt to disregard the Millennials' concerns - and the concerns of the liberal left - en the concerns of LGBT people - and working class families - and need I go on?

"Shut up!" is not an argument. It's what Bill O'Reilly says when he is out of arguments. Is camp Clinton out of arguments?

[cosmicone]

113. No one asked anyone to shut up.

Observations are not commands or desires. They are just observations.

[yuiyoshida]

83. There are days I totally don't want to come to GD-P

because of all the back biting and bickering. People seem to think this will all die down on DU once the elections are over, but there will be grudges, and angry feelings. It totally sickens me some times and I don't or won't come here much... I for one will be glad when its all over and we can move on, but I also know for a fact, this will stretch far into the future.. and people will remember who said what, and when, and it will affect every other political event in the future.

[cosmicone]

115. I miss your posts here and I completely understand how you feel. n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

85. Is your swat gif supposed to inspire?

[TSIAS]

99. Yes

Inspires rational people to place them on ignore.

[Capt. Obvious]

114. Inspired me to adblock it

It seems everyone is using Sid's photobucket for the sig lines so it just needed one click.

[Kalidurga]

87. Could you point me in the direction of these negative posts.

I can't find any individual threads so maybe there is a poster who responds negatively a lot. I haven't seen that very much either not without having to uncover a hide anyway.

I even went to the Bernie group to check I figured if the negative posts existed they would be there. But, nada. Same for the greatest and latest pages. I see a lot of claims for these posts, but the posts themselves not so much. In fact I rarely see Bernie people talking about Hillary at all.

I see a lot of sniping on each other, but sniping on the candidates not so much. I do see a lot more negativity toward Bernie which is odd since his supporters out number Hillary's by 9-1 at DU.

[treestar]

94. That's what insanity is

keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.

[TSIAS]

97. Ditto

HRC supporters on DU have only hardened my opposition to her in the primary. And some of the people you mention as hating Bernie now only make me support Sanders more.

[saturnsring]

102. hey bernistas if you candidate is so wonderful why do you need to tear up clinton

it's so pathetic of the bernie supporters - theyre turning this place into free republic

[edgineered]

103. yralliH tuoba ereh ffuts evitagen tsop ohw elpoep oD

?gniht emas eht od ot gniunitnoc tslihw tluser tnereffid a gnitcepxe yeht erA

?yralliH gnitroppus won era dna stsop rieht yb ffo denrut erew ohw 5 tsael ta tub einreB gnitroppus sdrawot sdnim OREZ degnahc raf os evah yeht taht wonk


(damn, reading through a mirror really blinds me)

[jack_krass]

104. Anybody who's mind was changed by an internet forum

Wasn't very secure in their conviction in the first place. Or (more likely) playing for drama.

[Bluenorthwest]

107. I see people who post nasty crap about our candidates and those who don't. You, OP, are one that

does post nasty crap about our candidates. The people who post nasty crap about Bernie are very, very often doing so out of antisemitic sentiments, make no mistake. I have a huge problem with that.

So the Bernie camp has some anti Hillary sexists, many of us call them out. The Hillary folks refuse to look at their own, do not call out their own.

[cosmicone]

117. Antisemitic? LMAO

[Vattel]

108. I've changed minds in real life. DU helps me hone my arguments.

Besides if no one countered all the bullshit from Hillary supporters on the internet, would Bernie be better off? I doubt it. Part of creating a community of enthusiast support for a candidate is "preaching to the choir." As for those who claim to have changed their minds because of Bernie supporters, some of us predicted some of those alleged changes, the voters do not claim to have changed their minds because of honest and fair criticisms of Hillary, which is the only sort of negative stuff that Bernie supporters should be posting anyways.

[JoePhilly]

128. They thought they'd get a primary challenge for ..

... Obama too.

Didn't work out for them.

[earthside]

129. My count is different.

The bitterness of the Hillary fanatics has by my count converted about twelve folks to support the genuine Democratic progressivism articulated by U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders.

The constant harangues by three of four notable DU posters has been the most counterproductive.

So, keep starting threads like this one ...

[cosmicone]

135. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha n/t

[AuntPatsy]

132. Perhaps Americans should quit expecting others to think for them, maybe we would not be in the situa

we find ourselves in....

the real reason we even get to vote should open up those oh thee of little minds, our history continues to rewrite the same old tired chapters, some need to not only get a clue but "research" that easily found clue....

Emotions can change minds, true, but can easily become a distraction as well...fine line...the stakes are too high....vote wisely and with strong convictions not based solely on emotions and we the people might stand a chance....

[Android3.14]

133. The OP is bizarre spin until black is white

For example, if you check out this popular thread, Would you Call this Treason that is not aimed at any specific candidate. It has 369 Recs. Of the 134 posters on this thread with sig lines supporting a particular candidate, five were for Hillary Clinton but 24 were for Bernie Sanders. I also notice there are known Hillary supporters who removed their logo of the H pointing to the Right, indicating a weakening of support, or perhaps embarrassment.

Any thread on DU shows far more support for Bernie than for 2016's Varuca Salt (Hillary Clinton) just by counting sig lines with Bernie images.


I'd never heard of Bernie until I started reading posts about him on DU. And when I looked into his stances for policy, I was hooked.

The vitriolic opposition from the rabid HRC supporters, the way they assist with HRC's undermining of the democratic process, and their self-proclaimed Thought Police tactics of alert stalking only cement the disastrous way they are turning people off.

If 5 people have changed their support because of encounters with enthusiastic Bernie supporters, that's acceptable, especially when you look at how HRC's support has fallen off the map on DU perhaps because of the nasty tactics they use.

[cosmicone]

137. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha

DU was for Bernie from the get go. Fortunately, in the extra-DU world, Bernie is a 25 percenter and will remain a 25 percenter.

The posts critical of Hillary with right-wing sources (and some obviously right wing posters) appear more like a consolation group hug by a losing side.

Now I'll wait for someone to have another consoling post "but but .. Bernie is at the same point where Barack Obama was in 2007"
Bernie is in every way identical to Barack Obama, "what was I thinking?"

[Android3.14]

150. You think they just sprang whole from DU fully formed

Like Athena from the brow of Zeus?

[cosmicone]

152. No

Most of the people were idolizing Elizabeth Warren and wanted her to run.

Elizabeth Warren remains the fillet mignon .. Bernie is just a hamburger because the filet was not available.

[Android3.14]

159. And Clinton is the Turducken

a deboned chicken DINO stuffed into a deboned GOP duck, stuffed into a deboned Third Way turkey.

[cosmicone]

162. Stay classy my friend n/t

[earthside]

138. In 2008 ...

... the vituperative comments from Hillary supporters was just as bad if not worse towards Barack Obama.

I don't know if it is the woman-candidate thing, the 'conservative' Democrat thing, the Clinton loyalty thing, or what --- but Hillary does seem to bring-out the vitriolic rhetoric in her supporters (here at DU anyway) that one does not usually witness from political enthusiasts.

So, your observation is correct, in my estimation ... "The vitriolic opposition from the rabid HRC supporters, the way they assist with HRC's undermining of the democratic process, and their self-proclaimed Thought Police tactics of alert stalking only cement the disastrous way they are turning people off."

Frankly, I'm for a person being for whichever candidate they like; I'm not for the cadre of Hillary fanatics who apparently think it is their mission to browbeat every DU member who even slightly questions the rationale for Mrs. Clinton's candidacy.

Sure, there are a few over-the-top Sanders' supporters, but they are nowhere near as mean-spirited and intolerant as the Clinton cadre here. (On edit: as the preceding smarmy post clearly demonstrates.)

[cosmicone]

144. yip yip yip

as predicted, "Bernie and Obama are virtual twins" post showed up.

Damn I'm good !! <pats back>

[Puglover]

154. Perfect.

"smarmy"

[jeff47]

179. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:11 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

The OP is bizarre spin until black is white
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=785237

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This post is way over the top rude, disruptive, over the top and inappropriate. It adds nothing to the conversation except flamebait and hyperbole. We need better community standards than this childish name calling and the bashing and trashing of a democratic candidate and her supporters.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:21 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I keep seeing the same language used in several alerts that I have adjudicated recently. Methinks someone(s) doth protest too much, and over posts that are no more over the top than others in the same thread. Very selective indeed.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is very tame compared to a thread just today in the HRC group that went downright nuclear. Take care of your own house. I'm sick and tired of the sniping, but singling one out and letting the others stand isn't fair.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Over-the-top attack on a prominent democratic candidate. This crap needs to stop.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think you hit alert on the wrong post.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Android3.14]

184. The Willy Wonka reference must have hit too close to home

Thanks for posting the results, jeff47, and thank you to the jurists who served.

[karynnj]

140. Count me as one who now supports Bernie over Hillary

I never was enthusiastic about HRC and don't understand for the life of me why the Democratic powers that be have now twice all but given her the nomination on a silver platter. However, I saw that no one was likely to run against her who really had a chance to beat her.

I credit the Hillary supporters, who started their attacks on Bernie by attacking the town I love and call home - Burlington VT. That was just the start -- and every themed attack - implying he is racist, he is sexist, he is a gun nut -- clearly orchestrated by groups allied to HRC - clearly with her tacit approval --- have moved me firmly into Anybody but Clinton --- ABC. (When - like in 2008 - she coyly does not refute charges when personally speaking, they stick to her with the same tar as to those making them.

As to "negative stuff", do you mean her past positions? Do you mean her horrible decision to commingle her personal and private email on one account on her own private server? Are we just supposed to be good little girls and boys and just put up the press releases of her campaign and comment that her proposals are better than anything anyone has ever done? Are we even allowed to post articles like the J.J. Goldberg Atlantic article where she makes completely clear that she advocated for a MUCH more hawkish policy in the Middle East than Obama?

Can we comment on her new oped speaking of her ability to reset the relationship with Israel - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/05/1445240/-Hillary-Clinton-Endorses-Netanyahu-in-Deeply-Problematic-Op-ed-Annotated If I knew nothing of Obama's efforts (via Mitchell and Kerry) on the peace process, I might conclude that she thinks that part of why the 2 state solution is not already a done deal is that there was not sufficient US support. This, in spite of the fact, that she considered it so unlikely she opted as SoS not to get bogged down in it. Not to mention, the timing of this is sickening - just as Netanyahu has again insulted President Obama and Secretary Kerry - in addition, to the fact that Netanyahu has done much to make a 2 state solution impossible - possibly forever. The US President is not a magician, nor does he or she have any real power over either side here. It was not lack of US credibility, passion, or diplomatic skilsl that led to Bill Clinton, Condi Rice, George Mitchell and John Kerry failing to make something work.

Are we suppose to sit quietly when Hillary supporters put up threads that Hillary is as liberal or progressive as Bernie Sanders - when the truth is that he is undeniably to her left? Too make that worse, it is done with swiftboat like attacks on a decent's man character - calling him sexist and racist.

It may be that HRC will never in the primary season be the DU favorite -- no matter howoften she uses etch a sketch to redraw who she is. No one with any thoughtfulness has ever said that DU represents the US population or even the universe of all Democrats. By and large, it is a forum where people to the left of center of the Democratic party are very comfortable. Hillary does not NEED to be seen as more liberal or progressive than Bernie Sanders to win the nomination - nor does she have to "win" on DU. Over the years, I have seen many times when a politician who does something that brings cheers on DU actually is doing something that reduces his/her total support in the real world. It is pretty clear that HRC's team knows this and that to different audiences, Hillary supporters make the point that Bernie is too liberal/progressive to win a general election. That argument at least has the virtue of being an opinion and correctly defining the differences.

[cosmicone]

146. You were not converted by the negative cutdowns of Hillary

Your first line shows you were always against Hillary.

My predicate stands.

[karynnj]

148. Your reading comprehension missed a lot of what I said

My point is that I was not FOR Bernie or O'Malley -- until the HRC team became so nasty that I am firmly in the ABC - anybody but Clinton camp because I really do not want 4 or 8 years of good Democrats defending her and Bill -- especially when they are indefensible.

[cosmicone]

149. Let's face it

You were in the ABC camp to begin with but if no other candidate materialized, you'd have reluctantly voted for Hillary.

Your post is disingenuous because there are 10-20 times more nasty posts by Bernie supporters against Hillary here. Hillary supporters have, by and large, shown the arrogance of a front-runner's supporters but there has been no deliberate attempt to cut down Bernie.

Bernie is and remains an insignificant force who is destined to lose. Anyone who doesn't see it has flunked math.

[karynnj]

157. It depends what you count as "nastY'

It is entirely fair to discuss various things that either candidate actually did. As to Bernie's chance to win, I have posted many times, I think HRC will be the nominee.

As to an insignificant force, what "force" caused HRC to shift her position on several issues - all in the last few months - ending up near Sanders position. At the very least, he has shifted the discussion to the left on many issues that have always been important to him. That alone is significant - unless you want to make the case now that nothing HRC says to win the primaries reflects what she would do as President.

Here's two -- she went from TPP BEING the gold standard - and per Paul Krugman and Ezra Klein the changes since she left have made it better not worse - to saying she is against it. On Keystone, she said she was inclined to support it and approved an industry linked group of experts to do the State Department study, giving them as a guideline that they should not consider the carbon created by the oil as it would be extracted no matter how it was distributed. (I posted that that defied Economic 101 - as a higher cost to distribute it would change the threshold where it was profitable. The NYT in its oped and various articles this week spoke of how that pipeline was critical to getting the tar sand oil out. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/07/opinion/no-to-keystone-yes-to-the-planet.html )

[Android3.14]

160. This is why HRC supporters cannot debate on the issues

They know there are good reasons to support any Democrat over Clinton, but lack the internal courage to stand by their values.

It's just sad.

[whatchamacallit]

168. That's the craziest claim ever

Does it really require someone post links to the hundreds of threads insinuating Bernie is a racist, sexist, gun nut, commie, liar? You're living in a fantasy.

[HassleCat]

151. Candidate frenemies

The zealous supporters of the two major candidates are candidates' worst enemies.

[merrily]

153. Do people who post horrible things about Sanders know they have changed zero DU minds?

[oasis]

156. Product Promotion 101: Sales persons who annoy prospective buyers

should expect negative results.

[whatchamacallit]

166. Well, it must have been your intention to drive Hillary sales into the ground

From the day Bernie announced, we've been called, racists, sexists, gun nuts, commies... Apparently you don't know your house is glass.

[oasis]

169. "Apparently you don't know your house is glass"???

Apparently you don't know that I have never used any of those labels to describe Bernie or his supporters. Those who would paint a candidate's supporters with the same negative broad brush should take a good look at how they appear to the community.

I agree with this particular OP only because it speaks to the behavior patterns of certain Bernie supporters.

[whatchamacallit]

171. Just because you claim to not have personally engaged in such smears

doesn't mean they didn't happen. If Hillary supporters can blame Bernie supporters collectively for anything said about Hillary, the same applies to you.

[oasis]

172. It is more than a claim,it's true. Any Bernie supporter here at DU

will back me up on that. Assuming you want to have a reputation for responsible posting, I suggest you get back to me with an apology.

[whatchamacallit]

174. If I have to own the

crimes of my brethren, why don't you?

[oasis]

175. We do "own" our individual reputations within the DU community.

That's the issue before you.

[whatchamacallit]

177. Hillary supporters love to regard Bernie supporters as a Giant Human Centipede

why shouldn't you guys be dismissed en mass as well?

[oasis]

178. Back to your "broad brush" approach. I'm sure

you have heard the term "personal responsibility".

It' sad that you continue to pass up your opportunity to do the right thing.

[Comrade Grumpy]

158. Trash thread. Trash poster. Trash. Trash. Trash.

[cosmicone]

161. Heh .. Bull's eye. n/t

[ecstatic]

173. The attacks started the day after the last midterms,

way before she or anyone else even announced. It was almost as if marching orders had gone out.

Examples:

I'm not voting for Hillary because she is too old and out of touch and it has to stop. - Democratic Underground
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025785996

Hillary Clinton - why I'm not supportive - http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025891778

REMEMBER When Republicans LOVED Hillary Clinton? - Democratic Underground
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025895896

"The Left Must Derail Hillary Clinton in the Primaries"--(To Gain A Voice in the Party Once Again) http://www.democraticunderground.com/12691316

George W. Bush: Hillary Clinton is like ‘my sister-in-law’ http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025915935

Let's be honest....nothing progressive can happen under HRC as president.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026113115

Hillary Clinton is the Kevin Bacon of Wall Street.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026173626

Five Reasons No Progressive Should Support Hillary Clinton - Democratic Underground
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026226563

Ready For Someone Else!™
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12773632

[cosmicone]

185. Thank you for this post

Bookmarking ...

[Persondem]

190. Nicely done. Thank you for taking the time. nt

[bowens43]

180. do you know that all those on here who bow down and worship her Majesty hillary have changed 0 minds

Are they expecting a different result whilst continuing to do the same thing?

[coyote]

181. oh look..the clown car pulled up again.

[Blue_In_AK]

193. It works both ways.

[Autumn]

194. Of course Bernie supporters have changced no minds here. Neither have Hillary supporters.

And some here have been turned off by the nastiness of some Hillary supporters. And at least 3 "supporters" that I know of that who made a big deal that nasty Bernie supporters turned them against Bernie and they support Hillary now never supported Bernie to begin with. Their rec pages and their posting history made that clear, those things are not secret.

[morningfog]

195. Why do you assume that is their objective?

[cosmicone]

198. What other objective can their be?

Excessive formation of bile that has to be extirpated?

[morningfog]

204. I see this place as an online pub for folks with political interests.

And who lean to the left.

I don't see how anyone posting here honestly thinks they are changing minds or winning anyone over by doing so. That is silly. DU GDP is tribal and enchrentched. It is not a forum to persuade DUers to change positions. It is a place to debate the issues and qualities and weaknesses of each candidate. It's just arguing online, it is not activism or campaigning.