I'll be 70 yrs old in May 2016.

[upaloopa]

Hillary is little over a year younger than me. Bernie is a little over 4 years older than me.
All three of us grew up in lower middle class families. All three of us were aware of the Cold War in the 50's and 60's. We were aware of the Korean War and the Vietnam war. I was in Vietnam. We were aware of the revolutions in Cuba and Latin America. We were aware of the Civil Rights movement. We were aware of the assassinations of John Kennedy and Dr King and Bobby Kennedy. We were aware of the women's movement and the struggle for gay rights.
Having grown up in the same time and the same country is Bernie Sanders we held much the same views all our lives that Bernie has all his life.
I support Hillary because she stands for the same values as I do and they haven't changed all these years.
The picture painted of Hillary and her supporters on this board is a distortion for what ever reason.
Don't even begin to think that you are more socially aware than we are.

[Romulox]

1. Um, Hillary has been "evolving" like crazy in the past 12 months. WTF are you talking about?

I support Hillary because she stands for the same values as I do and they haven't changed all these years.

[HerbChestnut]

2. Gotta agree with this.

[upaloopa]

8. You are wrong so there is that

[99th_Monkey]

16. More than a few observers have noticed Hills evolution

on private prisons, on Irag war, on gay marriage, TPP, on keystone, pleading "guilty" to being a Moderate,
and next week insisting she's a "Progressive". Pretending not to notice only makes you look woefully uninformed.

[bravenak]

9. Did Bernie not evolve into a Democrat?

[daybranch]

25. No, democrats moved to positions Bernie has supported for years.

Bernie is the Progressive candidate. He is the populist candidate that best represents the democrats. Have you not noticed that Hillary has shut up about being a Progressive. That dog won't hunt. You seem to believe that Bernie is running against Hillary, he is not. He is running for America's people, no matter their age, their gender, their sexual orientation, their country of origin. He is running against the wealthy who continue to despoil our climate and our economic lives. Bernie has always been a democrat, it is just that the wealthy bought the democratic establishment awhile back. Bernie is capturing the spirit of America, and no candidate symbolizes the struggle for our democracy better than Bernie.

[bravenak]

26. No. I clearly heard him say 'I am now a Democrat!'

[misterhighwasted]

14. I support HRC also for those beliefs & human rights passions she has always held.

She still stands strong & champions those ideals today.

A true Dem Progressive like Hillary DOES evolve as the world & its people & technology evolves.

She has that amazingly brilliant ability to do so, because she listens to the people's concerns as their lives also evolve. She engages them in solutions, dialogue no matter how uncomfortable or controversarial the subject.

She has superior diplomacy skills, as a great Leader needs.
She doesn't need to shout & demand it be done.

Thats why I admire & respect her & will do my part to see HRC is MPOTUS 2016.

Equal Rights are Human Rights are Women's Rights are LGBT Rights are Latino Rights are African American Rights are Children's & Impoverished & Imprisoned Rights & The Rights of those Censored Voices, Once & For All.
HRC

[Hoppy]

58. With President Hillary, things will get somewhat worse... TTP, no finance reform.

With Bernie they will not get better because of the Repuke Congress but at least, they won't get worse.

[misterhighwasted]

66. Not necessarily, with Hillary come her powerful women & men she has campaigned for.

HRC is steps ahead in changing the Senate & House to Dems.
There are six women currently being heavily supported by EMILYS LIST, with these wins, the Senate is Dem, and the House stands a good chance of balancing more on the Dem side.
These are candidates who have a great chance to upset the GOP power.
This is TEAM Hillary at work.
This is why I stand with HRC.
These are her people.

Have a look.
EMILYS LIST.org

[Doctor_J]

82. with Hillary comes a team of neo liberals who will privatise everything and continue the endless war

In the middle east.

No thanks

[leftofcool]

3. I agree!

[misterhighwasted]

4. K & R upaloopa.

We know a revolution when we see one.
And we know how they succeed & unfortunately, why they fail.
The Unions formed long ago were the smartest revolutions, they were united, organized & excellent nogotiators.
Without that sound top-down structure a revolution will fall apart.

[daybranch]

45. Actually the best were bottom up and spontaneous

Have you not heard of the sit-ins which stopped production? Many , many of these were organized quickly on the plant floor often by women. You apparently have a view of history that does not equate with facts. The unions which really looked out for workers and inclusion of all workers were organized and run in many. many cases by democratic socialists like Bernie Sanders proclaims he is. In fact the most viscous attacks upon people trying to organize unions was done under the guise the unions were all communist. You could get educated by reading the works of people like Howard Zinn-A Peoples History of the United States or reading that great African American sociologist W.E.B. DuBois on Black Reconstruction, but this is a free country and you can sit complacently with the mistaken belief that revolution depends on sound top down leadership rather than the combined efforts of thousands of workers committed to a common cause.

[misterhighwasted]

47. No. "You apparently have a view of history that does not equate with facts. "

Yes I do recall the sit-ins.
They indeed brought recognition & attention. But had it not been for someone at the top willing to sit at the table to negotiate an agreement to benefit both sides, they did simply accomplish the attention without the solution.

See!
Enjoy you evening.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. I'm 71, my wife is 75. We are aware and voting for Bernie or another progressive.

[randys1]

28. So when Women have to turn control of their bodies over to Ted Cruz, you will come here and

remind us of your vote of conscience?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. humbug.

We[re not voting for Ted Cruz. We'll be voting for a progressive.

[randys1]

63. I am Voting for Bernie in the primary, so not sure what you mean

[freedom fighter jh]

69. Apologies

I thought you were saying that if folks vote for Bernie, Repugs will win.

Apologies.

[artislife]

100. You say that every now and then

but oddly, my impression is that you seem to post more about the fact you feel we all need to vote for Hillary in the GE.

I could be wrong...but it is an impression I have.

[bkkyosemite]

6. I will be 70 in April 2016 and I'm Feeling the Bern most definitely.

[beerandjesus]

7. If you were in Vietnam, how can you rationalize her Iraq vote?

I'd really like to know. Your generation brought down LBJ--who was 10 times the progressive we could ever hope Hillary might be--over Vietnam, yet you give her a pass on Iraq, which was Vietnam to my generation and the Millennials.

Seriously, how can you justify that? We should have learned the lessons of Vietnam rather than getting into Iraq. At least when we got into Vietnam, Vietnam hadn't happened yet!

[upaloopa]

11. Life is full of suffering.

We all suffer. The end to that isn't living in the past. We live now and in the future. We have to do the best we can with what we have.

[99th_Monkey]

19. Life is full of suffering, but VOTING to insure the death & suffering of over a million people

cannot be just blown-off, by simply saying, "oh life is full of suffering, so who cares?"

[Hepburn]

24. So a vote for Hillary is a vote for suffering?

Whaaaaaaaaa????

[upaloopa]

32. Why do you have to constantly make up shit?

[beerandjesus]

42. Actually, that's what I heard too.

And I do take your point, look forward not ahead, etc.; in my own life, and in how I judge the people I interact with day to day, that's something I strive for. (And I've noticed that a couple of the people I found to be quickest to lash out at anyone criticizing Obama, no matter how bad the policy, are now on my side of the Bernie-Hillary divide, and that makes me really happy.) However, I don't think that's a valid way to pick a president--if that's your logic, why not vote for Rubio? He doesn't seem like such a bad guy really, and maybe he'll come around on some of the crazier issues he's spouted off about to appease his base, just like we can hope that Hillary's sudden about-face on the TPP is genuine.

But again, your generation didn't say that about LBJ. You took his ass OUT. And I'm not saying that as an endorsement or a criticism, just as a fact.

Now, LBJ didn't just say, hey guys, it's kinda not cool to gun down unarmed black people; he signed the fucking Civil Rights Act when it was incredibly unpopular not just in his own party, but in his own STATE. In fact, he didn't just sign it when it got to his desk, while his supporters wrung their hands and lamented the fact that he just couldn't do it without Congress: He went out there and twisted people's arms. Yeah, the tide was turning slowly but surely, but he put his own balls on the line in a big way, in contrast with Hillary on gay marriage, where she was literally one of the last Democrats in the national party to come around on it.

Similarly, LBJ instituted the Great Society reforms, like Medicaid. Hillary's talking about baby steps like "re-financing" student debt, she's not talking about progressive reforms anywhere NEAR as bold as those of LBJ.

Yet, Vietnam sealed LBJ's fate. Again, I'm not passing judgment; I could argue either side of this one, but regardless, Vietnam was unarguably one of the most horrible things that's ever happened in American history. So.... given that Hillary didn't just read about Vietnam in the history books, but was old enough to remember the country's experience of Vietnam personally, and voted for the next generation's Vietnam ANYWAY... and given that Vietnam was THE defining issue for your generation, no matter what other great progressive reforms LBJ may have championed and instituted, I ask again:

How the hell can you rationalize voting for Hillary?

[upaloopa]

93. How the hell do you get off defining

me and anyone else you mentioned in that post.
You have your opinion that's all that post amounts to.

[beerandjesus]

113. Actually, I would really, really like to understand this.

Believe me, I don't take the time to write posts like that if I'm just being snarky.

I sincerely hope someone here can answer my question eventually. It's frankly one thing for a Millennial to support Hillary, when they don't remember Vietnam, and even the Iraq War vote happened when they were just barely coming of age. It's another thing for someone who DOES remember Vietnam to casually overlook a candidate's vote in favor of the subsequent generation's Vietnam.

I have yet to hear anyone even TRY to justify this.

Best birthday wishes to you regardless, I mean that sincerely.

[upaloopa]

117. I said this before. The world is not either black or white. If you reduce everything to neat

sentences you can use on a discussion board to win points you really aren't saying anything. Also I am not going to let you define my life and my thinking in ways that fit your arguments.

[artislife]

103. Love this post. nt

[beerandjesus]

115. Thanks!

[artislife]

101. With this mindset, you will be best able to handle a republican win out of all of us here.

Because, it seems, life is just full of suffering. So it really isn't a big deal either way.


smh

[treestar]

85. Because they are different things at different times

One has nothing to do with the other.

[beerandjesus]

116. So sometimes pointless wars of choice, justified by lies, are ok, and sometimes not?

Sorry, doesn't make sense to me at all.


I always love that Biden pic in your avatar though!

[treestar]

118. Completely different times

The draft, that fact that 70 year old DUer was 20 back then and you have no idea if they were drafted or volunteered? The changes in the culture taking place in over 50 years? It must be nice to have it all so simple you can so easily overgeneralize. It was not nearly as easily known that Vietnam was a "pointless war of choice" for people back then. Nobody knew it was "based on lies." Everyone was scared of the Commies, or at least most people. A lot of people went if they were drafted, rather than protest. It took years for people to discover it was "pointless." People of that time in fact thought of it as "losing" rather than pointless.

And LBJ is often lauded here. How can that be? By your analysis, his "warmongering" is much more direct that that alleged of Hillary.

[beerandjesus]

119. It sounds to me like you're reinforcing my point.

You're not justifying Iraq, you're justifying Vietnam, and giving cover to those who supported it. I think everything you're saying in that regard is valid, as far as understanding the times, but it doesn't help me understand how someone whose generation was defined by Vietnam can rationalize his candidate's Iraq War vote.

And it's conveniently dismissive to accuse me of overgeneralizing, but you're just evading the point by doing so. Some of us think that Hillary's poor judgment in regard to the Iraq War is a very, very serious issue. Remember that that was one of the key things that got Obama elected. I would expect someone with first-hand experience of Vietnam to understand this very clearly, and not simply dismiss it out of hand with an empty platitude like "changing times".

And LBJ deserves the praise he gets here. He also deserves the grief he got over the escalation in Vietnam. I would say the same about Obama in fact, who has also done some really good things and some really terrible things. I don't see how that's hard to understand. People are complex. But in LBJ's case, the extremes are definitely more stark than possibly any other president in history (I won't claim to be qualified to go into too much detail on that though).

[TM99]

10. You may have, and I applaud you for it.

But until 2013, Clinton did not support LGBT civil and marriage rights. In fact she actively spoke out against them.

Until this election season, Clinton has been an avid neocon supporting war in the middle east. That's not the stance of someone who learned the lessons of Korea and Vietnam.

King supported economic and social justice. Pushing the TPP as the 'gold standard' and then pivoting during an election season to be against it now is not someone who gets how the two are truly intertwined.

Your values may not have changed. You are blind to the truth if you honestly believe that hers have not. That is sad.

[upaloopa]

12. This simple black and white world you seem to think

you live in doesn't exist.

[TM99]

15. You do realize that when it comes

to civil rights, you bet your sweet ass, it is black or white. You either have them. Or you do not.

You either support LGBT civil rights. Or you do not. Sure you can 'evolve' in your understanding, position, and feelings, going from not to supporting. But really there is no gray area. There is no middle ground. You can't be 'sorta' for them. You can't be for work protections but not for marriage rights or vice versa.

That is the real world. Perhaps you have lost touch with that?

[99th_Monkey]

27. Damn straight. Spot on. Hillary or Bernie either voted FOR or AGAINST the Iraq War

That's NOT 'simplistic', that's a irrefutable FACT.

[randys1]

30. So with a post like yours I assume you are in the camp of will support whoever the Dem

candidate is.

Because with all of her faults, and she has plenty, Hillary is a civil rights supporter and the GOP isnt.

[TM99]

54. I don't play the game you are trying to do here. n/t

[upaloopa]

95. It took a whole country to evolve to get to

where we are today. No politician could bring about marriage equality until recently. Not Bernie and not Hillary.

[TM99]

98. You fail to recognize yet again

that those of us who didn't need to evolve were the ones that worked with LGBT individuals to secure their civil rights. Those that were in the wrong who needed to evolve made the process that much longer and more difficult.

DADT & DOMA are the Clintons legacy. That is the wrong side of history to be upon.

[artislife]

104. This is another great post! nt

[99th_Monkey]

21. Thank you. great post! nt

[winter is coming]

43. Actually, I don't believe her values have changed. Just her words. n/t

[TM99]

55. Bingo! n/t

[oasis]

13. Amen.

[DURHAM D]

17. We were also very much aware of how important

the Judiciary was as that is where justice would most often be rendered. Then Reagan was elected and we hit a wall.

We were also aware in the 1980s of the Christian Broadcast Network emergence as a tool for Republicans to promote their hate.

Until Reagan the natural enemy of the middle class was always understood to be the upper class. Once he came on the scene through their effective use of hate radio and TV programming the right wing messaging turned everything around and convinced most of the public that the working and lower class (poor people, unions, welfare moms) were actually the ones destroying the middle class. This has yet to be reversed.

[Autumn]

18. Interesting and heres what I have to say

Hillary and Bernie grew up in lower middle class families I grew up poor. My Grandparents came from Mexico, illegally. My Mom was born here. All of us were aware of the Cold War in the and 50's and 60's. Those of us too young learned of it from our elders. We were aware of the Korean War, Uncles died there, and the Vietnam war colored my life. I wasn't in Vietnam but my Brother died there and 2 months after what was left of him came home I climbed out my bedroom window to go to my first anti war protest . I knew of the revolutions in Cuba and Latin America. I was very aware of the Civil Rights movement. I will remember to my dying day watching the assassinations of John Kennedy and Dr King and Bobby Kennedy. on TV. We were aware of the women's movement and the struggle for gay rights.
My nephew, after his third tour in Iraq and Afghanistan came home, put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. I've always thought that first tour in Iraq killed him. It just took him a while to die.
Having grown up the same country as Bernie I held much the same views all my life that Bernie has all his life.
I support Bernie because he stands for the same values as I do and his values haven't changed all these years.

The picture painted of Bernie and his supporters on this board is a distortion for what ever reason.

Please don't even begin to think that you are more socially aware than anyone else here. Because you don't know the lives and stories of others. Our histories make us what we are. I respect that people will support Hillary, the same should be done for those who support Bernie. Bernie has no more say over his supporters than Clinton has over hers.

[Snotcicles]

71. +1.nt

[Autumn]

73. It was a wonderful post until I got to the last two sentences

then I saw it was the usual.

[artislife]

106. You are so fierce!

I bet the posts that blithely stated that life is suffering as if posting about a summer rain on a garden party was particularly painful.

[Hepburn]

20. I will be 68 years old.

Hillary and I are approximately the same age.

She does NOT stand for the values which I hold near and dear to myself. I am an FDR Democrat and I fully and totally support Bernie Sanders. He stands for what the Democratic Party is suppose to be. Hillary does not.

My values have not changed over the years and that is why I support Bernie Sanders.

[Hortensis]

22. Recommended. It's a simple message that people who

would be wise should take note of. There are an awful lot of us, after all. BTW, most of us were part of all those movements, even those who never made it to a single march, because we were also the many, many millions without whose support they could not have succeeded as they did.

[artislife]

107. Sorry, Tom Brokaw said it was a different generation

that gets to hold the title as the Greatest Generation.

Even though Xers and Millenials have gone back into war forced tour after tour, far longer than that generation fought.

[Hortensis]

110. Well, we're not the the biggest generation for nothing.

All that heft has occasionally been good for something. Blacks are less than 13% of the population, other minorities far less in those years. Believe me, I'm not puffing us up extravagantly for not doing more for others and than we'd do for ourselves. We're all very good at ignoring abuses and injustices to ourselves, much less others, before finally, way late, getting off our derrieres in some angry, whiny populist miniriot, casting blame at everyone BUT ourselves.

Nevertheless, civil rights advances couldn't have happened then without the usually indolent but real support of sympathetic majority members, and no changes will happen now without the support of others. Something to keep in mind. We need each other.

[artislife]

120. You are not the biggest anymore...

keep that in mind.

[Hortensis]

121. Ulalula's right, you know. Some of us have been in it

for the looong haul. Bernie's views are not at all new to me either and socially pretty much in line with what I've always supported; his true economic positions are to my left as I don't support destroying tried and true systems that work well when properly controlled in favor of experimentation. Nevertheless, I've been waiting over 35 years for a politician to be able to admit to his positions in public again and still be able to be elected.

I'm grateful to him for taking a hint from Elizabeth Warren's success and stepping up to show the nation that we have moved left again finally. But he's not going to be president for a variety of reasons, most of which can be stacked right at his door, like spending his 25 years in Congress acting disdainful of his colleagues instead of building alliances.

Thank heavens, we don't have to choose him to have change. Hillary's never as far to the left as Bernie at any period, but their real-world positions are pretty similar on most issues and they compromise during the political process in roughly the same ranges of acceptability. This is something Bernie's supporters don't want to admit, but it's extremely well documented.

[mmonk]

23. With my background in economics and government, I'm inclined to disagree.

However if you want to vote for her, that is fine. It's not like I hate anyone. Good for you and expressing your feelings.

[upaloopa]

29. Elaborate won't you?

My background is accounting and finance. I have been a controller of manufacturing companies, the largest labor contractor in the San Joaquin Valley and of a medical clinic. Currently I work for county government in an alcohol, drug and mental health dept. I mostly work with federal grants for homelessness and mental health. I've owned two small businesses both lost money in the long run.
I grew up on the lowest rung of the middle class ladder. I went to war. I worked full time to get through college. I am an alcoholic and drug abuser. I was homeless in San Diego for a few years.
I suffer from mental illness and divorced and remarried.
I say all that just as a frame of reference.
How the hell can someone like me support someone like Hillary.
Well Bernie supporters don't represent Hillary as she really is.

[JaneyVee]

33. What an inspiring and robust life you have led.

Thanks for sharing.

[misterhighwasted]

34. True. If they did represent her as dignified as she is, there would be no bernie.

HRC 2016

[mmonk]

35. You have a great background.

My background is in economics at the collegiate level. Where we may disagree is that I'm probably full fledged Keynesian. Since I have a minor in government, I studied governments from Plato's Republic to the present (well the 70's when my degree was completed). I know we used to use Keynesianism in the past, especially when we got into economic trouble and it worked. Since the 80's , it's been all Chicago School, neoliberal, etc.. Our growth is anemic but those who decided we only go Chicago School blame it all on Keynesianism when the policy has been theirs. Since my academic years, I have run private enterprises (as a corporate officer) and a brief stint in a public school system in purchasing.

[upaloopa]

50. Thanks for sharing that

It has been years since I studied economics i need a refresher

[mmonk]

72. No problem and best of luck to you.

You seem to be a very good person.

[upaloopa]

74. I think all of us on DU are good people we just

see things differently

[R B Garr]

88. Excellent post! They don't represent her accurately.

You are so right. Nothing is in context although they insist Bernie be fully understood in context at all times, or else. The revisionist history about the Clintons is truly sickening.

[The Wielding Truth]

36. But she voted to go into Iraq. Couldn't she see past the Republican smokescreen?

Or did she think it was the a wise thing even though there was no true evidence? I can't forget or forgive, but she is still better than any Republican running. At least she does not want to put women in to a second citizen place and she seems to be smart enough to handle our foreign affairs.

I will support the best person (Bernie Sanders) for the job unless he can't get enough voters with him. If that happens I will regret what it will mean for our country's future, but we must have someone who will not lead us farther down the path of fascism.

Our next President must be sound minded and intelligent enough to understand the nuances of running a country full of different kinds of people. They must respect many religions, creeds, sexes, and races.They must hold strong individual freedom until it disrupts the community's right to safety and they must realize that there is a common good that guides us to progress into a better county for all.

I see no Republican who have shown they can.

[MoonRiver]

37. Thank you for that upaloopa!

[hedda_foil]

38. I beat you there by a year, and grew up in Hillary's neck of the woods.

Her family was upper middle class in a n upper middle class suburb. Think of the movie The Graduate. That was Hillary's world. It was as far from Bernie's truly lower middle class upbringing, which was very much like Michelle Obama's, as it's possible to be and still be included as middle class.

[riderinthestorm]

48. Right? In what world is Park Ridge lower class? It's a wealthy suburb

Median house price is closing in on $500,000

Median income is six figures.

This is an upper middle class community. I don't think Hillary has ever disputed she came from a privileged family.

[hedda_foil]

57. No lower middle class family in the 50s-60s could even aspire to live in a house like the Rodham's.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zol87/5161741011/

[Laughing Mirror]

112. Lord, What a dump!

Thanks for finding this, hadda.

That's just where upaloopa lost me in his post. If that's what a 70-year old calls lower middle class, then the one-bathroom, three bedroom cottage that eight of us in my family called home in SE DC in the 1950's-60's would by comparison be no more than an outhouse to the Rodham place.

One wonders if the Rodhams had an air conditioner back then, or a pool to cool off in during the summer heat. In the lower middle class crowded urban neighborhood of my 1950 & 60s, at best there was a fan in a window blowing sticky hot air around, but at least the polluted creek down the street was there for us to splash around in during the endless sweltering DC summers, and in spite of the threats of polio we could pick up in that pre-vaccine watery slime. Or down the manholes we would crawl, to play in the tunnels. It was cool down there. When a friend from school got caught down there once when a storm came up and drowned, I went back to the safety of our nasty dirty garbage-strewn creek. Don't go barefoot though if you don't want to cut your feet on all the broken glass.

No need to even bring up the level of education, the schools, the crime, the alcoholism, the broken homes (the majority of them, surely), the racial tensions and the class tensions, tensions not only just between "colored" (as polite people said then) versus "white" people or the white police, but between the scores of lower middle class, working class and downright poor whites on our side of the river who knew without question that they inhabited a world far away from the uptown west-of-the-park upper middle class whose charmed existences played out in spacious residences that looked exactly like the Rodham's.

Other than both being residents of the same city, they had no common culture other than the privilege of their white skin. But the poor whites did not feel that privilege to the same degree as their wealthy uptown cousins because they felt that they were being "chased out" of their low rent spaces by the poor blacks moving in and replacing them, and they knew they'd never be able to "escape" over the river to white and toney Georgetown or Cleveland or Wesley Park.

I suspect the lower middle class experience my family had back then was not much different from that of many of our peers, although I'm certain it was not like Hillary's.

[Doctor_J]

84. This op is pretty far from the truth

I think the Clinton supporters have created a fantasy world where Hillary has unwavering principles and she grew up poor and rose to the white house all on her own and is a liberal. It's weird.

[senz]

96. + 1

It's like they're trying to sanctify her. Yes, very weird.

[artislife]

108. +1

[PowerToThePeople]

39. ..

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mr-personality/201410/why-are-older-people-more-conservative

[hollysmom]

41. I was 70 last year and I remember the depression stories of my mother

How she had to drop out of school in 6th grade to work, how her father worked several jobs and also brewed beer in the tub, and old people dying every where before social security. Her parents lost their house when a bank cheated them, Yes, I remember the stories, and i believe you can't be a friend to bankers and protect people from them. I don't want to go back to a time without safety nets and without regulation (we need more, not less).
Hillary has been pushed left, but can we keep her there? I don't think so. The TPP must die, corporations should not run my life or yours.

[upaloopa]

65. It does no good here but for the hell of it

the Hillary that was in invented on this board over the last six months does not exist.
If you say a lie long enough some people think it is truth but that doesn't make it true.

[yallerdawg]

44. Yes, the villification and demonization of Hillary Clinton...

on a Democratic forum is astounding.

I don't care who you support - support being the key word. Make your best case, and may the best candidate win.

But this Hillary Hate? What does this serve?

[Hepburn]

46. If you think Hillary Hatred is bad here...

...talk to your friends and neighbors. She is very disliked. Several reasons are given, but what has been said to me most of the time is she cannot be trusted. If we nominate her, we will not win the GE.

JMHO

[misterhighwasted]

51. Unm that statement is a broadbrush and doesn't reflect more than your friends & neighbors.

My friends & neighbors will be voting for Hillary.
And yes I have talked to them. We have joined to canvass our neighborhood, instruct on voter requirements & I do this in my city twice a week, along with my friends & neighbors.
I don't know the same people you do, so I would never make that broad a statement.
People have different points of view. I'll do know that not everyone thinks the same.
HRC has a lot of support.

[Hepburn]

59. And you know this only reflects my friends and neighbors?

Why don't you just admit that there is a great deal of Hillary Hatred out there. It is a fact. I wish it were not because it most certain spells doom for the GE.

[yallerdawg]

52. I live in Alabama.

Alabama Democrats trust Hillary. Most Democrats trust Hillary!

My friends and neighbors are Fox-watching, Bible-thumping conservative Christians.

Hillary will not win the Alabama General Election. No Democrat will. Not even a DINO!

I need you to change this map!




Key: Green - Hillary Clinton ahead, 28 states + 6 shared

Blue - Bernie Sanders ahead, 1 state + 6 shared

No polling data in last six months, 14 states & D.C.

[misterhighwasted]

53. It serves the personal satisfaction. Like mob mentality does.

Social media allows people to be loud, arrogant, rude, and as insulting as they want to be 24/7, they'd never say that hate speak to our faces if they were standing in front of us, by themselves, in a public place.

[yallerdawg]

56. It's the internet!

Why do we even bother?

[misterhighwasted]

67. Its the internet. What else is there to say

[Fumesucker]

76. Interesting how someone who complains of others being rude and insulting has just got a time out

A time out for five hides.



As Skinner says, those who are getting time outs are a very small minority of DUers.

[NanceGreggs]

80. Interesting how ...

... DU is comprised of 85% BS supporters and 10% HRC supporters, but we're all supposed to believe that the jury system is "fair and balanced" - ya know, kind of in the same way FOX-News is.

Also interesting is how calling Hillary a "whore" (among other things) is considered not hide-worthy on a site that still purports to be a Democratic-supporting message board.

"As Skinner says, those who are getting time outs are a very small minority of DUers."

Apparently Skinner considers everyone who ever registered here as "DUers" - and ignores the numbers of posters who currently post here on a regular basis.

No matter - HRC will be the Dem nominee AND the next POTUS. And all the "hides" in DU Bubbleland won't change that fact.

[Fumesucker]

83. There are plenty of Hillary supporters who have never had a hide

You'll note that I don't have a Loonix fly in my sig.

The thing that most people here seem to miss is that DU is a business and we are the product rather than the customers. Skinner has a financial interest in keeping a relatively high level of conflict here because that's what draws clicks and clicks are what translate into revenue.

I figure Sanders has about a 25% chance in the primaries so I won't be all that devastated if he doesn't make it. I was in the 10% when Dubya had a 90% approval rating after 9/11 and where I live it was more like 98% so I have zero problem being in the minority.

[NanceGreggs]

87. "DU is a business ...

... and we are the product rather than the customers. Skinner has a financial interest in keeping a relatively high level of conflict here because that's what draws clicks and clicks are what translate into revenue."

That's exactly right. It's the 85% BS supporters who are currently keeping this place alive. Which is why pretending that DU juries are "fair and balanced" in meting out hides is bullshit.

[artislife]

109. And all were good hides, no filler.nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

49. Don't even begin to think that you are more socially aware than we are.

Show some social awareness and I'll take your request under consideration. But you just finished telling me that you, Bernie, and Hillary are around the same age, and so you have the same values. Excuse this 46 year old youngster while I laugh at that assertion. Should we compile a list of other people around the age of 70 and see if they're more or less politically the same? I don't think you'll like the results.

[Bluenorthwest]

60. Hillary's family was not lower middle class at all, upper middle class and comfortably so.

nt

[McKim]

64. This 70 Year Old Won't Be Voting for Hillary

I am 70 years old. My parents quit school in the fifth grade and sophomore year to go to work during the depression. I worked as a
bilingual teacher. I live in a fancy neighborhood. I have it all, a great education and a wonderful life. I am religious. Hillary will not be getting my vote because she voted for the Iraq War. Anyone with half a brain knew it was all built on lies. She was privy to a lot more information than any one of us, but she voted that way to get reelected on the Upper West Side of New York.

The Iraq War unleashed great evil and killed around 500,000 people. This, in my view, is an unpardonable sin, pure and simple.
I spent about 12 years working hard in the Peace Movement to fight this evil. I will never vote for her! Bernie is getting my vote!

[840high]

70. ...^ that

[WillyT]

81. + 1,000,000,000 - What You Said !!!

[stupidicus]

68. in other words you're fully behind her thirdway ways

whatta shocker

[upaloopa]

91. Well say what you need to

I don't accept your words

[Spitfire of ATJ]

75. "....she stands for the same values as I do and they haven't changed all these years."

[Thinkingabout]

77. I find it interesting so many wants to compare Sanders to FDR, well, that would put Sanders in the

war hawk program, FDR had WWII in his administration.

I am the age of Hillary, she has been a strong advocate of children, their health, education and well being, keeping our children safe, this can not always be said about others.

[upaloopa]

90. FDR was not a supporter off civil rights

[Thinkingabout]

94. Wrong comparison, eh?

[bowens43]

78. How would you know what hillary stands for? what she stands for changes daily

she is a hucster, a snake oil salesman, a used car dealer, a spinner of tales and weaver of lies......she is not someone who has any consistent values or beliefs. She can do nothing but the hurt the party and if given the opportunity, the country.

[upaloopa]

89. You are wrong there is nothing else to say

about your post.
If you really don't like her that's your right. You can make up all the shit you want that is your right.

[Kalidurga]

79. Congratulations on approaching your 70th

None of us personally know Hillary all we can do is go by her record and what we have seen her say on tape.

[upaloopa]

86. A lot of things said about Hillary on this board

I think are not true but repeated over and over people accept them as true.

[99Forever]

92. Meanwhile...

...back in the real world......

[artislife]

99. Spoken like a true Boomer. nt

[Liberal_in_LA]

102. Kick

[djean111]

105. I will be 70 next March. As a woman, I did my share of struggling; my early years

being the first woman programmer at a large company were full of my objecting to things and almost getting fired. I had friends who died in Vietnam, friends who came back with kidney failure caused by Agent Orange, denied help by the government, a friend who committed suicide.

I was aware of everything you stated.

And to me, Hillary is the antithesis of those values.

No matter which values she is embracing any given week.

No one should make generalities based on age or gender or race or geographical location.
Illogical, cheap, and easy. And pretty much wrong,.

[Hepburn]

123. Amen...

...you said it all. Female in a profession dominated by men, lost a ton of friends in VN, watched others get sick and die after their service. Yes, Hillary is the antithesis of those values which I have held from the time I was in elementary school and adhere to more strongly even today. Hillary is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay to far to the right for me on nearly every issue that counts.

[BlueMTexpat]

111. I've got a couple years on you,

LOL.

But I share a lot of your experiences and views. As I am a woman, I did not serve in Vietnam, but my younger brother was in the USMC and did. I did, however, choose to serve my country as a Peace Corps Volunteer in the 60s and have dedicated the overwhelming majority of my life to public service since then. In the latter part of my work life, I chose to perform public service on the international level.

I am also a Hillary Clinton supporter and her international credentials and credibility are among her greatest assets, IMO.

I truly resent those who continue to trash her on DU - and her supporters here, including me, by association. They do not know us. At all. I do not trash any of our three Dem candidates.

For the "trashers" to believe that we have not weighed our decisions carefully in view of our own life experiences - including our lifelong experience as undeniably liberal Dems - is at the very least patronizing and condescending. Ultimately it works against their candidate.

If people prefer a different candidate, fine. All three candidates have their strengths and their weaknesses. Not one is perfect. But, to paraphrase Bernie himself, any one of the three on their worst day would be better than any GOPer on their best. If people cannot or will not believe that, they have no business being on DU, IMO.

[NCTraveler]

114. Thanks for sharing a little of the personal side. nt.

[Fearless]

122. Your saying literally that Hillary is Bernie Sanders

"Having grown up in the same time and the same country is Bernie Sanders we held much the same views all our lives that Bernie has all his life.
I support Hillary because she stands for the same values as I do"

How about vote for the real thing?