Bernie: "I said at the time that toppling Iraq would destabilize the region and create ISIS,

[MannyGoldstein]

or something like it."

That's what Bernie should say tonight. Over and over and over and over.

(I look forward to "Some people think everything a woman speaks out for is destabilizing", or similar.)

For the record (and with all due respect to those now claiming that Sanders is a frothing warmonger), here's what Bernie said in 2002:

“I have not heard any estimates of how many young American men and women might die in such a war, or how many tens of thousands of women and children in Iraq might also be killed. As a caring nation, we should do everything we can to prevent the horrible suffering war will cause. War must be the last recourse…..[And] who will govern Iraq when Saddam Hussein is removed? And what role will the US play in an ensuing civil war that will develop in that country? Will moderate governments in the region who have large Islamic fundamentalist populations be overthrown and replaced by extremists? Will the bloody conflict between Israel and the PA be exacerbated?”

And in 1991:

"Despite the fact that we are now aligned with such Middle Eastern dictatorships such as Syria, a terrorist dictatorship, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, feudalistic dictatorships, and Egypt, a one-party state that receives seven billion dollars in debt forgiveness to wage this war with us, I believe that in the long run, the action unleashed last night will go strongly against our interests in the Middle East. Clearly the United States and allies will win this war, but the death and destruction caused, will in my opinion, not be forgotten by the poor people of the Third World and the people of the Middle East in particular.

...

I fear that one day we will regret that decision and that we are in fact laying the ground work for more and more wars for years to come."

[winter is coming]

1. People keep saying that HRC has lots of foreign policy cred, while implying

that Sanders is some sort of rube. Sounds like he understood the situation a lot better than people have been giving him credit for.

[appalachiablue]

48. That's true, Bernie has understood this for a long time.

[jfern]

56. Hillary has more foreign policy experience, but Cheney has even more

Foreign policy experience doesn't mean you're any good at foreign policy.

[marym625]

96. +1

[left lowrider]

138. Oh how I wish Bernie would just say that in the debate

- it is perfect.

[bvar22]

155. Well,

...so much for Hillary's much extravagantly promoted Foreign Policy Experience.
Hillary got it wrong, and over a MILLION innocents died for nothing.

[reformist2]

78. Hillary and her crowd are the "experts"... experts who have been horribly wrong.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

156. The best and the brightest...

[Major Hogwash]

158. The best that money can buy.

Hope she kept her receipts, she might want to return them and get her money back!

[Dem2]

2. He's right

we've been saying this for years. Thanks W.

[riversedge]

3. So, your headline is only Your imagination saying what you think Bernie SHOULD say......

Just to be clear--he did not actually say what your headline says.

Your comment:
Bernie: "I said at the time that toppling Iraq would destabilize the region and create ISIS,
or something like it."

That's what Bernie should say tonight. Over and over and over and over.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Was that not clear? nt

[bettyellen]

19. Nope, it actually looks like a quote. I'm sure many who don't get to the body of your OP will

assume, based on the deceptive title, that it is a quote. Not sure why you'd want to write scripts for BS, especially ones that are, in essence "I told you so". That ain't going to go over well tonight of all nights. I suspect you know that.

[MannyGoldstein]

25. I'm pretty sure it meets professional publishing standards

I understand that it causes you discomfort, but that's not prohibited by any standard that I know of.

[bettyellen]

26. Bernie: "I said..."is not deceptive? LOL @ citing professional publishing standards for DU.

Last edited Sat Nov 14, 2015, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

And god help Bernie if he takes your advice.

[MannyGoldstein]

32. I can see that professional publishing standards would be a LOL! for you. nt

[bettyellen]

36. Bernie Sanders: "I told you so, America! Peace and love is the answer!"

More awesome advice for Bernie!

Apparently, only one of us actually wants his candidacy to last after this evening.

[AgingAmerican]

68. Cuz War!

[bettyellen]

69. Timing is everything, and Sanders would be a fool to pull a "told ya so" tonight.

but I suspect manny people know that, and don't want Bernie to do well.
There are lots of intelligent things he could say tonight, but snark like "I told you so" is not among them. Doubt he would be that stupid.

[Fawke Em]

139. So when do we ask her what her vote has wrought ?

Or is this like the gun debate? We can never bring it up?

[TekGryphon]

29. No, it wasn't.

Until I got down to this point in the thread, I assumed that Bernie had said what you quoted him as saying. I had no idea you were making up words and false quoting them as being said by Bernie.

Since when did DU allow people to falsely quote anyone, much less a Democratic presidential candidate, without consequences?

[George II]

41. It was deceptive, typical of a Manny OP - say one thing even though the truth is different....

..same as your earlier OP which implied that Sanders was against the ongoing war in the Middle East (Afghanistan) even though he voted for it.

You ran from that one and then concocted this one.

[Thor_MN]

43. No. You attributed that direct quote to Sanders.

I'm not sure what profession's standards you are reading, but it isn't publishing...

[riversedge]

89. No, it appears deceptive

[MannyGoldstein]

94. Given the group who are complaining,

I hope you'll forgive me for being less than convinced.

[Fawke Em]

141. I knew he didn't say it and I'm a former reporter.

Probably one of the few on here who gets paid to be a professional writer.

I'm now a content manager.

This is a discussion board, not a news organization. Who cares about publishing rules?

[restorefreedom]

9. other than mentioning isis by name,

he predicted it pretty dead on. he starts making the case at about 3 minutes and by minute 4 is getting into the international aspects.

https://m.

[tecelote]

23. Don't argue minor points.

Show us how Hillary will not continue on the path that has clearly failed us.

Right now, Bernie has the moral ground since he has been consistent with this message for years.

[George II]

42. There is only one war in the Middle East in which the US has troops on the ground.....

....and Sanders voted for that war.

[tecelote]

47. Initially, but he has the presence of mind to realize when we have gone too far.

Bernie strongly opposed a proposed 40,000 troop surge in Afghanistan, saying it would be “a very, very, very bad idea”.

So, again, show us how Hillary will not continue on the path that has clearly failed us.

[George II]

49. The fact remains that the so-called "peace candidate" voted for the longest war in our history.

[tecelote]

54. Yet, he remains the morally superior choice.

[George II]

59. That's why we hold elections.

[tecelote]

63. Agreed.

[gregcrawford]

58. Wrong yet again...

... he was paraphrasing actual remarks made by Sanders, and saying that it is a point that Sanders should drive home tonight. Pay attention.

[Paka]

99. What about "or something like it"

...you do not understand?

[SoLeftIAmRight]

5. many of us knew it would have terrible results

there were many very vocal - the crazy push for war is loud and supported by MONEY

[Hepburn]

7. But, of course...don't you get it?

Our oil is under their sand.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

10. President Carter...

told us that we needed to break ourselves from that addiction - he said we would fight wars there if we did not.

[Hepburn]

6. Yes, absolutely yes. One has to be totally naive to not have understood the consequences.

And...one had to have been a total fool to trust anything that came out of the mouth of BushCo.

JMHO

[kcjohn1]

8. Bernie has to hit her hard

I still can't understand how Clinton is seen someone with great foreign affairs experience. Everything she has touched has turned into shit. Look at Iraq. Look at Libya. Look at Syria.

If Sanders doesn't hammer her and the neocons on the failed policy of the war on terror, he doesn't deserve to be president.

[Hepburn]

13. Her foreign policy mistakes are indefensible.

She is clueless IMO.

[Hortensis]

11. Heck, even I said toppling Iraq would destabilize Iraq

and surrounding countries. And most of the people I discussed it with said that too. Hussein was a monster, but he was a strong secular leader-monster who killed any Islamists who were foolhardy enough to enter Iraq.

But no one foresaw ISIS, which is a whole new phenomenon.

Bernie can claim for his own what everyone except for our president and his cohort knew, that's SOP for campaigns, but I think it would be a mistake to claim to foresee ISIS. I mean, shouldn't he have sounded an alarm or something?

[Ed Suspicious]

18. Maybe no one specifically saw "ISIS" but I think many had an idea we'd see pretty extreme sectarians

wreaking international havoc.

[Hortensis]

72. Yup. All Hussein's munitions stores left bare nekked

in the desert while various groups slipped into the country to make off with them were in themselves a pretty good clue to that.

[JaneyVee]

12. ISIS is a cancer and needs to be eliminated.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. Do we starve it? Or do we help it to metastasize?

That's the question.

[daleanime]

20. +1

[JaneyVee]

27. Heavy rounds of chemo.

[Scootaloo]

33. What, like nukes?

[bettyellen]

40. Unfortunately, starving the beast will starve women and children too. There is no easy answer.

[jamzrockz]

55. Chemical weapons maybe?

just saying

[sabrina 1]

15. Absolutely, He was so RIGHT. He should quote Michael Ledeen 'we are going to turn the whole region

into a glass parking lot' and point to Hillary and state that she supported those policies, the results of which HE PREDICTED.

I am stunned that people think she is 'strong' on FP. The same people who claimed to OPPOSE the policies she has supported with DISASTROUS results all over the world now.

[daleanime]

22. Amen....

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Well said, and should be obvious to anyone. Even politicians.

[jalan48]

17. Bernie's statement didn't represent what the media and Defense Dept. wanted.

So, he was out of touch I guess. Just like he can't win the general election because he's too out of touch. So, we should just go on electing more people who can make big messes that the next group gets to clean up (and not for free). Because, if you aren't for making a big mess that will cost taxpayers trillions to clean up, then you are out of touch.

[demwing]

21. War has a trickle down affect

ISIS has taken credit for the Paris attack, but give credit to those who deserve it:

Start with Bush and Cheney, add anyone who voted for the Iraq war.

This reality is on them, because war has a trickle down affect...

[malokvale77]

91. Yes...

and like everything that trickles down, it is the unfortunate soul at the bottom who suffers the most.

I'm sick to death from the lot of them (the on high enablers).

[valerief]

24. Yes, Bernie, but look at all the fabulously rich people who'll get even richer!

"God" shines on them.

[Metric System]

28. Blaming Hillary for ISIS will REALLY endear him to Democrats.

[AgingAmerican]

34. That's what you take away from this?

"I fear that one day we will regret that decision and that we are in fact laying the ground work for more and more wars for years to come."

[Justice]

30. Respectfully, Bernie's chances of becoming president ended with the Paris Attacks.

Because in a general election, he will not be perceived of as willing to fight ISIS with American troops.

I like Bernie and believe he would make a good President, but believe his race ended with those attacks.

[AgingAmerican]

35. Right, because America wants more WAR!!

Cuz we're the world police and all

[malokvale77]

97. "Right, because America wants more WAR!!"

It seems that even DU has jumped on that bandwagon.

PS: Your first gif brings back a fond memory. I won't tell it here.

[MisterP]

38. there is always the danger of him being sucked into the "a light little intervention against an

Last edited Sat Nov 14, 2015, 08:12 PM - Edit history (1)

an absolutely wicked foe that opposes everything you and America stand for"

but he's the only main candidate with a big-picture view of the situation: he remembers Operation Cyclone, remembers Iraq and Libya and Syria, AND his points aren't just a way to get a leg up on the competition; that sets him apart

but he's the one *running on* voting against Iraq and not screwing around in Libya and Syria: people will like the "first rule of holes" approach as well as "git tuff"

[Beausoir]

45. Interesting point.

He never had a chance to begin with but this is an interesting observation.

[malokvale77]

95. Respectfully, I think it gives him a leg up.

He has been right about the effects of these wars of choice from the get go.

No Bernie supporter is going to change their mind over the fact that he was right all along.

[Faux pas]

31. K N R

[riderinthestorm]

37. Bernie needs to pledge to go after the funding sources for ISIS

It will distinguish himself from HRC if he can pledge to do what it takes to find and destroy the money chain that's funding ISIS.

It's an inconvenient truth that it's our "allies" (cough) like the Saudis and the other Gulf States but it's long past time to break off this relationship, expose it to the disinfectant of sunshine and be done with it..

He also needs to pledge our support for the countries in the region who have to remove ISIS. Our presence there is making things infinitely worse. Turkey, the Kurds etc must take the lead. We can provide support - materiale, meds etc but leave the boots at home.

[Maineman]

65. Very interesting. This makes sense.

[Weidman]

87. +1

He has always said that the countries of that region needs to take the lead instead of U.S. and I agree.

[Scuba]

140. /\_/\_This right here_/\_/\

[AikidoSoul]

39. Can anyone find the date of the Bernie speech about not going to war with Iraq?

I'd like to post it elsewhere but what to be precise.

Thanks for any assistance you can offer.

[Beausoir]

44. Crass grave-dancing to score cheap political points.

Typical.

[George II]

46. As we Red Sox fans used to say about our left fielder, "that's just Manny being Manny".

[ismnotwasm]

50. Heh!

[malokvale77]

93. Considering your Sig-line...

I have to laugh at the hypocrisy.

[Warren DeMontague]

118. Cheap political points? In GDP?

Well, certainly the Hill folk never do that.

[jamzrockz]

51. Yea, he is right on the problem but

his solution sinks to high heaven. He wants to let; get this, Saudi Arabia solve the problem. This is just unbelievable that he would suggest bringing in Saudi Arabia into a country where they are not wanted to solve the ISIS problem which they help support. How do you expect the Saudi's to attack their fellow Wahhabi coreligionists in Syria when they are working towards a regime change which they favor.

Also how are the Saudi's and Arab coalition doing in Yemen? I will tell you, they are getting their asses kicked. But these are the people Bernie wants to send to Syria. Btw, go take a look at liveleak videos from Yemen and see how the Houtis are mauling the inexperienced Saudi troops.

His solution is akin to bringing a rapist to be the counselor for a rape survivor. You might think he just suggested this idea once but he has suggested this same solution on 2 other occasions, most recently on CBS Sunday morning show, cant remember the name of that program.

[bettyellen]

81. I hope this gives all the candidates a chance to speak in detail. I'm afraid it won't.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

149. He's right. Saudi Arabia, and all other nation states

that want to remain nation states have the burden of defending themselves. I suppose you think the US should intervene in another 10-20 year ground war?

[jamzrockz]

153. Why would you say that I want US intervention anywhere?

90% of the post I make on this site is about criticism of the many US/NATO interventions around the world. In fact, I hate it when anyone forcefully intervenes anywhere in the world. Be it US, EU countries like France (especially France), Russia etc

Bernie was talking about sending Saudi troops to Syria a country where they are not wanted. Why would anyone want to send Saudi troops anywhere after seeing what they are doing to Yemeni people now? Saudi a very sectarian, religious, Wahhabi state can only make things worse if they are forced upon a state like Syria but Bernie thinks it would be a good idea.

Sorry but Saudi as military solution for Syria just doesn't make any sense. Btw, I am not one of those pacifists who think there is no military solution in Syria, that ISIS can be defeated diplomatically. I just think the military solution has to involve parties that can work with the Syrian state.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

157. I didn't. It was just a question. Thanks for answering.

I just think that the region has to fix its own problems (that we mostly brought about) unless they don't want to. I include SA because they have a lot at stake. I couldn't give a rats as who does what, as long as it isn't us. That should be up to a coalition of the Middle East nation states.

[Babel_17]

52. "We came, we saw, he died"

Not be rude and/or in your face, but some seem to forget that quote.

[malokvale77]

100. "We came, we saw, he died"

Some of us will never forget or forgive. I still can see that look on her face every time someone suggests she is better than any Republican.

I also remember her suggesting that McCain would be a better president than Obama.

I cannot forgive Obama for making her SOS. He should have left her lying in the dust where she belonged.

[Babel_17]

109. I'm not 180 degrees in disagreement with her on foreign policy

It's just that in this context let's not get the vapors about discussing war while pretending that this quote doesn't exist, or that Secretary Clinton isn't running on her being a bona fide hard ass when it comes to foreign affairs. So no <gasps> if the topic of bare knuckles foreign policy gets discussed.

I respect your position. War is hell, and semi-organized murder, as far as I can tell. And for some it's a racket. Like most Democrats, I'm not an isolationist, but I am one of the many who called bullshit at the way the Bush/Cheney administration, and other instigators, lied and bullied us into tearing apart Iraq.

[malokvale77]

121. I'm not sure where we disagree.

War is a racket, and Hillary is part of that racket.

I don't agree with tearing apart nations for profit - including our own.

[Babel_17]

146. The Military-Industrial complex is like an octopus

Off Topic: Bernie is making me very proud to be a supporter tonight.

[malokvale77]

147. Gotcha... nt

[emulatorloo]

53. Stop fabricating quotes to put in Democrat's mouths

It is disingenuous to make up shit like and use made up quotes from Bernie or any other Dem. And all for sensationalistic click-bait.

[Andy823]

60. +1,000,000 nt

[bettyellen]

66. ++++ and it is horrible advice for Sanders.

wonder why he would even suggest it.

[malokvale77]

126. It was a suggestion for a statement...

not a "made up quote". Get a f*#king grip.

[sweetapogee]

57. My opinion

for what it is worth, is that Bernie can score some short term points by hitting HRC hard on her vote for war. But it would be a short term win for Bernie. Why you ask? Because in both poker and politics, you must play the hand the dealer places in front of you if you want to make the case for your leadership skills. I don't think we want to make this whole episode about the current administrations policy instead of a war vote taken almost 15 years ago which both can and will calm loudly were based on bush's lies. In other words Bernie can say that Hilary was duped by bush but this would be a hostile position to the other dems that were also duped by bush. Bernie needs their support if he intends to run on the Democratic ticket.

Both Bernie and Hilary will have to decide if they are going to stand with Obama or become critics. My guess is that both Bernie and Hillary would rather stick to important domestic issues to deprive the pukes the opportunity to drive a wedge between the Democratic top runners. Martin is in my opinion the dem that benefits most from this particular event but it remains to be seen how this shakes out. We shall know soon.

[AgingAmerican]

61. Judging by her supporters statements on the matter today

It's pretty obvious the orders have come down from on high for them to start beating the drums for war.

[malokvale77]

101. This here...

makes me so glad that my grandson has decided not to renew his contract with the USN.

[cantbeserious]

62. It Is Increasingly Clear That HRC Must Withdraw From The 2016 Election For Her Role As A Neocon

eom

[bettyellen]

64. cutandpastemuch cantbeserious? eom

[cantbeserious]

67. Ridicule - The First Sign Of Nothing Better To Say

eom

[bettyellen]

90. No Joy In (your) Repetition.

[malokvale77]

104. No Joy In (you) Either. nt

[malokvale77]

103. She should have done us all the favor...

of never bringing the turmoil of her candidacy into the picture to begin with. She just can't see past herself.

[Owl]

70. Bernie is indeed a wise man.

[raindaddy]

71. I hope he confronts her about her nasty campaign...

[randome]

73. ISIS has its genesis back in 1989. Our invasion made things worse but we did not 'create' ISIS.

https://www.quora.com/How-did-ISIS-form-When-and-where-did-ISIS-begin

The group began more than two decades ago as a fervid fantasy in the mind of a Jordanian named Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. A onetime street thug, he arrived in Afghanistan as a mujahideen wannabe in 1989, too late to fight the Soviet Union. He went back home to Jordan, and remained a fringe figure in the international violent “jihad” for much of the following decade. He returned to Afghanistan to set up a training camp for terrorists, and met Osama bin Laden in 1999, but chose not to join al-Qaeda.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

[randome]

75. So once again, Manny, you've tried to use a global tragedy for your own political agenda.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

[malokvale77]

105. That is your reply to self? nt

[TheFarS1de]

80. Who helped uncork the bottle ?

Yep , HC by giving Bush the vote .

[randome]

82. And as she has said -rightly or wrongly- she was told that the resolution was to avoid war.

A miscalculation on her part, to be sure, but not evidence of blood-thirstiness.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

[TheFarS1de]

85. That is one hell of a miscalculation .

Not something one wants in a world leader , there was enough of that under Bush .

[randome]

86. For the most part, I agree. Clinton is more politically calculating than I would wish.

But she is still infinitely better than a Trump or a Carson. And trying to say she is responsible for ISIS is not supported by the evidence that their genesis stretches back to 1989.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

[malokvale77]

110. "And as she has said -rightly or wrongly- she was told that the resolution was to avoid war."

Why was Hillary the only one who thought the resolution was to "avoid war"?

Putting aside that dumb argument, her speech in the Senate says otherwise.

Is she stupid or just another opportunist. Tell me that.

[randome]

132. More of a political opportunist. I don't like it but she's light years ahead of Trump or Carson.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

[malokvale77]

137. No...

Shes barely a minute ahead.

[GeorgeGist]

160. "she was told" implies she lacks critical thinking skills.

Is that what you mean?

[MannyGoldstein]

106. Forgive me!

How about: The RepublicanThirdWay war that Hillary fought to start enabled ISIS to become the major player that they are today.

Is that a whole lot better?

[randome]

133. She didn't fight to start anything. She made a politically calculated vote.

No politician wants to be on the losing side of a vote. A 'no' vote would likely have finished her career and would have served no other purpose.

I don't like that kind of calculation but that's where we are. She will still be a thousand times better President than Trump or Carson.

And you not seeing that is rather mind-boggling. Because the numbers very much favor her so you had better be prepared to make the most of an inevitable outcome to this election. Banging your head against the wall does no good.

Support Sanders all you want. But please stop tearing down other Democrats.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

[Scuba]

142. "No politician wants to be on the losing side of a vote." So you recommend voting for bad ...

... laws and bad policy to avoid being on the losing side of the vote? Jeeezus H. Krist that's the stupidest thing I've heard all day.

[MannyGoldstein]

144. And a speech. Don't forget the speech.

You know, about Saddam's nukes and all.

[Major Hogwash]

151. Man overboard!!

Someone throw randome a life preserver . . he's fallen off the Good Ship Lollipop with Captain Clinton at the helm!!
What happened?
She made a right turn!

Bada-bing!

[azmom]

161. We're going to need a big one.

She went deep on that one.

[bvar22]

154. LOL.

You rationalized your way into this by trying to defend the indefensible.
Damn...but some people will try to twist anything...even the deaths of a MILLION innocent brown people...to suit their narrow flawed vision of the World and their place in it.

"No politician wants to be on the losing side of a vote."
IS THAT your justification for a MILLION innocent deaths?

[Sancho]

74. Cheney said it too....

Cheney '94: Invading Baghdad Would Create Quagmire

[marym625]

76. K&R!

Agree wholeheartedly.

[AzDar]

77. Ayup.

Bernie!!

[Warren DeMontague]

79. but his supporters r white supremacist volvo driving bros who wear purple gingham shirts & use macs!

that's what matters, here.

[malokvale77]

111. WTF...

I'm for linux all the way.

If Bernie won't accept my choice of kernel, I'm going to have to reconsider my support.

[Warren DeMontague]

114. Let's be real, for a minute. Sen. Sanders is a smart man, but he's pushing 75.

I suspect if you ask him- or Hillary, for that matter- about their 'choice of kernel', you'll get an answer like this-

[malokvale77]

129. OK...

I guess at the ripe old age of 62 I am too young to know better.

Thank you W DeM, you made me laugh today.

[polly7]

115. Don't forget the perfectly shaped heads for a fedora.

Is that like - square, or pointy, or with a big lump on top? I've never really looked at a fedora that closely to know what would be the perfect head type to fill one out.

[Warren DeMontague]

117. I shouldn't have dissed that junior league amateur blogger, I guess.

I mean her powers of perception were so keen, she was able to discern that this dude was a rand paul loving fiscal conservative mens rights activist obama voter who doesnt give a shit about the "subaltern", just from his choice of shirt and a roll of his eyes.

[polly7]

119. She is definitely exceptionally perceptive,

she'd be amazing in Vegas.

I hope that man has since changed his ways ...................... and shirt.

[Warren DeMontague]

120. Since he's imaginary, he has an infinite closet of potential imaginary outfits at his disposal.

Didn't you ever wonder why Santa, the Easter Bunny, and "God" are all such snazzy dressers?

[polly7]

124. True, they are all quite dashing in every photo I've seen of them!

[Teamster Jeff]

83. If we did not invade Iraq there would be no ISIS today. That is clear

[randome]

84. ISIS started in 1989.

We made things worse but we did not 'create' ISIS.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

[Teamster Jeff]

88. Maybe so. But now they have the land in Iraq and Syria to legitimize themselves and to grow.

So the ISIS we have now exists because of the destabilazation of Iraq.

[malokvale77]

130. "We made things worse but we did not 'create' ISIS. "

That makes "we", somehow OK?

This is bullshit and you know it. "We" were involved back then. "We have been involved in every world crisis ever since WWII, when "we" decided "we" were invincible and should rule the world.

[randome]

131. ISIS began as a reaction to Russia's invasion of Afghanistan.

The world is too interconnected and it will never go back to being less so. Just about every country meddles in every other country. That isn't right, it's just how things are. But none of it -absolutely none- justifies killing hundreds of innocent civilians and children.

ISIS has been slaughtering their own for decades. Their first statement after Paris was that they attacked because France is 'a center of prostitution and obscenity'. Only later did someone think to add "Oh, and for Syria."
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Where do uncaptured mouse clicks go?[/center][/font][hr]

[malokvale77]

136. So ISIS was our creation...

to fuck with Russia.

Thank you for clarifying what I already said.

[Major Hogwash]

159. Absolutely agree with this.

Richard Clarke said it was the worst foreign policy decision in 50 years!!!!

[SoapBox]

92. Just stay your course Bernie...

Because she will be evolving/flipping/flopping/morphing all over the place...again.

Somehow she will try to turn his No Vote into some kind of Red, Racist, Sexist attack...against her.

And...expect to see her dressed in a Flag, carrying a Cross and arriving via Fighter Jet.

[rury]

108. And dodging fire from snipers.

[Paka]

98. Over, & Over, & Over...

Than you Manny for the timely reminder. Bernie understands foreign affairs just fine for me.

[Joe Turner]

102. Bernie has a great mind and big heart

An extreme rarity in the land of politicians.

[juajen]

116. So does Santa. Just sayin.

[malokvale77]

134. When you try to equivocate a made up fairy tale character (a ridiculous one at that)...

to Bernie Sanders, you lose the argument.

[Enthusiast]

107. Kicked and recommended to the Max!

The sad part is that some wanted to destabilize the region.

[Thespian2]

112. K & R!!!

[malokvale77]

113. Close enough...

[nc4bo]

127. I'm right behind you malokvale. Fuck this SSDD shit. nt

[malokvale77]

135. YUP...

I will not fall for the SSDD bullshit. That shit don't fly on any day.

Thank you nc4bo.

[joshcryer]

122. Sanders will not hand soundbytes on a silver platter to the GOP.

Though that is your deepest fantasy.

[bettyellen]

128. the OP cantbeserious!

[riversedge]

123. Ah, nanny conjuring up stuff again (the headline OP this time)

...... Bernie: "I said at the time that toppling Iraq would destabilize the region and create ISIS,

View profile
or something like it."

That's what Bernie should say tonight. Over and over and over and over.

[polly7]

125. K&R! nt.

[Fawke Em]

143. OK... He basically just said that. Can y'all move on now? eom

[Major Hogwash]

152. Yessssss, he did!!!

He most certainly did!!

[mvd]

145. Exactly right. No Iraq War and we wouldn't be dealing with ISIS

and chasing terrorists in so many countries. I liked Bernie's answer when he said the countries in the Middle East must do much more to combat ISIS.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

148. And people think Hillary is strong on foreign affairs? Bernie is ROCK SOLID!

[diverdownjt]

150. Good post Manny...

Once again a well thought out reasonable objection to war.(Iraq)
I was for the war in Afghanistan as well. It should have ended after a year though.
We should have rolled right over the mountains pursuing bin laden to the
ends of the earth instead of letting him live another goddamned day. Allies be damned
if you are not helping us...then what good are ya.

Sanders is the only candidate that has any cred left after how many years in the Senate?
Just try and find another candidate that can speak truth like that...I dare you....

thanx Manny