It sounds as though Clinton "won" the debate for the following reason...

[brooklynite]

Sanders' goal wasn't in fact to "win" the debate; it was to slow Clinton's upward trajectory AND to peel away some of her supporters, because that's the only way he can win the Primary. To that end, he needed to expand support beyond his traditional base. From what I've read, he didn't add an issue to the discussion that hadn't already been debated, and Clinton didn't flub an issue that hasn't already been thrown at her ineffectively.

nb - someone will point out all the online polls that said Sanders won -- and that's part of the problem. The people who run out after a debate to search out online polls and vote on them are already enthusiastic Sanders supporters; they don't reflect any shifting of votes from Clinton.

[Cha]

1. Yes, he spoke only to his base. A Dem in Iowa polled said this ..

“Focused entirely on his base which demands the pure," said an unaligned Iowa Democrat. "Worst answer: Asked directly how he would work with a GOP Congress, he argued that the Political Revolution would sweep aside all in its path.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/insiders-bad-night-for-bernie-215901#ixzz3rZPLIGb6

[Iliyah]

2. I wasn't home, but really that is what he said?

Oh my

[Cha]

4. Yes. I know.. Unbelieveable!

[dmosh42]

6. No, this quote is just another bullshit answer that never happened!

[Baitball Blogger]

41. He explained how he worked with the other side to push some of the most

comprehensive legislation for veterans. It was a response to a question asking what crisis have you faced that shows you're ready for the presidency. (Very loose paraphrasing on my part.)

Really, a president doesn't know what kind of Congress he will face until after the election. But, Bernie is a smart man. He knows how the game is played.

[cantbeserious]

3. HRC Did Not Win - HRC Doubled Down On Her IWR Vote - She Bears Responsibility For The Middle East

eom

[brooklynite]

5. Her IWR vote came up in 2008...she got as many votes as Obama

[cantbeserious]

7. Misdirection - Does Not Change The Facts - And - Does Not Change Her Ownership Of Results

eom

[brooklynite]

9. I'm just addressing whether Sanders ended up getting any of her votes...

...if IWR didn't stop people from voting for her in 2008, it won't stop them now.

[cantbeserious]

10. Your Opinion Only - Others See The World Differently

eom

[brooklynite]

11. My opinion, informed by the results of the 2008 Primary...

...and FWIW, I ended up supporting Obama then.

Your opinion is informed by....?

[cantbeserious]

12. Your Opinion Only - Others See The World Differently - Your's Is Not The Only Perspective Of Events

eom

[brooklynite]

14. Still waiting for yours

[cantbeserious]

17. Just Gave It - Matters Not What The Establishment Party Thinks - Matters Only What The People Think

eom

[brooklynite]

19. And what is your evidence that The People feel differently now than in 2008?

[cantbeserious]

20. The Massive Turn Out For Bernie - HRC Not Even Close - The Despicable Manipulations By The DNC

To protect HRC at all costs - By the DNC DWS DLC THird-Way Party Establishment.

[brooklynite]

23. "Massive turn out..."

like this?



or this?

[cantbeserious]

24. Misdirection - One Is Becoming Known For This Tactic

eom

[brooklynite]

27. Pointing to data from previous elections where the outsider DIDN'T win = "misdirection"

Good to know

[cantbeserious]

28. Misdirection - The Item Up For Discussion Is This Election - One Seems To Want To Live In The Past

eom

[Thor_MN]

25. Ah, you are the People and speak for all of them. Good to know...

[cantbeserious]

26. Thank You - But Know - However - One Does Have Eyes - The Crowd Numbers Tell The Tale

eom

[Thor_MN]

29. Delusions of grandeur... Seek help.

[cantbeserious]

30. Ad Hominem Attacks Are Against DU Rules - Clearly One Is Unable To Face Reality

eom

[Thor_MN]

32. The "reality" that one speaks for anyone other than oneself? Delusional to think otherwise.

[cantbeserious]

34. Ad Hominem Attacks Are Against DU Rules - One Is Doubling Down

eom

[Thor_MN]

35. One doesn't speak for anyone other than oneself, never trust one who claims otherwise.

[cantbeserious]

37. Tripling Down On The Ad Hominem Attack That Started This Sub-Thread

eom

[Thor_MN]

39. Have a nice day.

[Baitball Blogger]

43. Today's stage is very different than 2008.

Last edited Sun Nov 15, 2015, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

When you have the CIA pointing out that the Bush Administration was faulty in their response to early warnings prior to 9/11, it makes you reexamine everything that occurred since that time that kept us on a road we shouldn't be on today.

[Lil Missy]

13. No she did not "double down" on the IWR vote. She said it was a mistake.

[cantbeserious]

16. Admitting The Mistake Does Not Make Up For The Deplorable Conflations She Made - The 9/11 Comparison

She Doubled Down.

[Lil Missy]

21. Thank you. Now I know I can't ever take anything you say seriously. n/t

[cantbeserious]

22. Ad Hominem Attacks Are Against DU Rules - Clearly One Is Unable To Face Reality

eom

[riversedge]

18. You 'logic' is flawed. Even IF she doubled down--that does not mean she did not win the debate. BTW.

she did not double down--she said it was a mistake.

[BlueStateLib]

40. What additional legal authority did george bush gain from the 2002 iwr vote

Bush already had
1- The terms of the 1991 Gulf War resolution were still binding, desert storm hostilities ended with a cease fire and all the u.n. resolutions were still in effect.
2- Terms of the Sept. 14, 2001 congressional resolution approving military action against terrorism (S.J. Res 23)·

Only one person voted against war and that was Rep Barbara Lee. If the 2002 iwr was a vote for war, why was Iraq invaded by hans blix and the u.n. weapons inspectors?

[berni_mccoy]

8. The Senator from Wall Street lost

Because she is against:
Ending SuperPACs
Free College
Reinstating Glass-Steagall

And because her foreign policy decisions resulted in ISIS and she tied her Wall Street donations to 911. DISGRACEFUL!

[Kalidurga]

15. We will know in about 9 days who is going to benefit from the debate

when the new national polls come out. That won't even tell us who is winning state by state, but we will have some clues. Right now is anyone's guess how the general public feels about the debate.

[MADem]

31. I agree that he spoke to his base and they likely will stand pat. I don't think he

grew his cadre of supporters at all, in fact, I think anyone on the fence would have turned away. He seemed irritated, distracted, and tired. He was leaning on that podium like he needed support.

These poor kids that run around cache-clearing and dummying up the online polls need to understand that there's no cache-clearing at the voting booth. That's asking for awareness, though, and they're more interested in the appearance of "winning" to the point that they're doing it like a North Korean dictator--it's just absurd.

O'Malley might have helped himself a bit, particularly with the Trump 'carnival barker' line. An undecided voter might just be tempted to respond with O'Malley's name to a pollster after that great quip. I just found his performance inartful--he did not seem comfortable in his own skin.

[enid602]

38. saving up

Hillary had a few openings that she did not take. She could have asked him for a list of congressional candidates who are running on his 'revolution,' or a list of current congress people who endorse him. He said twice that the business model for Wall Street is fraud, which might make New Yorkers queasy given their city's dependence on the financial sector. Such a statement would not play out well in the GE.

She seems to be saving up for a future debate.

Bernie's explanation of his efforts on veterans' benefits in response to the question of how he would handle a crisis like Paris was a bit odd.

[artislife]

33. Spin, spin, spin.

[bahrbearian]

36. the following reason...$$$$$$

[MohRokTah]

42. It was a de facto win as opposed to a de jeur win.

Nothing will really change, ergo it's a win for whomever holds the lead.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. Having reviewed the PPP 'polling' done by a Hillary Superpac, the language about intenet polling is

a tad specious. Sure, internet polls are what they are. But a stilted poll designed by the purchaser of the poll is also what it is, and the folks who spend money and time in advance to do some funky number work are clearly committed to that game completely. 'Do not read internet polls, read only the polls we had made for you to read, that's what's fair'.

To be very clear, internet polls are flawed, the PPP polling is intentionally skewed and only dinging one of those things makes your position look weak to me. Manipulative statistics are manipulative. Not just some of them. Contrived and meaningless results are contrived and meaningless results, not just some but all.

[brooklynite]

45. How about the CBS overnight poll?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-who-won-the-second-democratic-debate-november-2015-cbs-news/

[MADem]

46. Among Democrats, Clinton is seen as winning by more than two to one, while independents are split...

Immediately after Saturday night's Democratic debate, CBS News interviewed a nationally representative sample of debate watchers assembled by GfK's Knowledge Panel who identified themselves as Democrats or independents. By a 23 point margin, these debate watchers say Hillary Clinton won the debate. Fifty-one percent say Clinton won, compared to 28 percent who favor Bernie Sanders. Just 7 percent pick Martin O'Malley as the winner. Fourteen percent called it a tie.

Among Democrats, Clinton is seen as winning by more than two to one, while independents are split between Clinton and Sanders.

Handling the Issues
In light of the terrorist attacks on Friday night in Paris, Saturday night's debate shifted much of its focus to foreign policy, terrorism, and addressing the threat posed by the Islamic militant group ISIS. On these topics, Clinton scores a commanding lead over her rivals. More than six in 10 Democrats and independents who watched the debate think Hillary Clinton would do the best job on each of these measures, compared to about a quarter who pick Sanders, and about one in 10 who pick O'Malley.

But on domestic issues, views are more mixed. While Clinton has a slight lead over Sanders on handling gun policy (43 - 36 percent), Sanders beats Clinton by almost two to one on handling income inequality. When it comes to the economy and jobs, Clinton and Sanders are about even. O'Malley trails both candidates on all of these by a wide margin.

Hillary Clinton 51
Bernie Sanders 28
Martin O’Malley 7
Tie 14

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-who-won-the-second-democratic-debate-november-2015-cbs-news/