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Dem2

(8,168 posts)
Sun Nov 15, 2015, 01:52 PM Nov 2015

Hillary’s Greatest Weakness. She needs to put distance between herself and Obama.

By Jamelle Bouie

Everyone indulges it, but at this stage of the game, who won? and who lost? are the least interesting questions of the presidential debates. More useful is what did you learn? After all, that’s the point of debates—to learn about candidates as they address moderators, answer questions, and interact with each other. In the GOP debates, for example, no one has cared what Jeb Bush has to say about taxes, as long as he’s in the mainstream of the party. What actually matters is how he responds to pressure and provocation, and on both scores—in the debates, at least—he has failed.

On Saturday, Democrats held their second presidential debate, this time at Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa. Hosted by CBS News and led by John Dickerson (also a Slate colleague of mine), the topics ranged from ISIS and the attacks in Paris to immigration reform and gun control. And watching the three-way fight between Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and Martin Malley, what did we learn?

Hillary Clinton is stuck when it comes to foreign policy. As a matter of strategy, Clinton won’t critique or criticize the Obama administration. At every turn, she praises President Obama and his accomplishments. And it makes sense—she wants to endear herself to rank-and-file Democrats, including black Americans, who strongly support the president. But there are places where Obama could have done better, or had the wrong judgment. To many observers, that includes the Middle East. We know Clinton has a critique of Obama’s policy toward the Middle East, especially with regards to ISIS—she says so in her book, Hard Choices.

And so during the debate Clinton struggled to defend Obama’s record on the Middle East, and his past stance toward ISIS in particular. “Won’t the legacy of this administration, which you were a part of, won’t that legacy be that it underestimated the threat from ISIS?” Dickerson asked. Clinton didn’t have an answer. Instead, she offered the audience what she would do as president, without reckoning with the choices she made—with Obama—while secretary of state. This approach continued even as the debate turned to other subjects. When faced with problems in the Affordable Care Act, for instance, Clinton can’t make a forthright critique. Instead, she has to praise the policy, praise Obama, and find some way to move forward. It’s tough and it’s tedious, and it’s an unneeded drag on Clinton’s candidacy; the kind of problem that could spawn new problems, if she can’t deal with it. Put differently, the easiest way for Clinton to escape the trap of the status quo is to break with Obama and put real distance between his administration, and her prospective one.

.......

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/11/tough_debate_for_clinton_sanders_o_malley_has_strong_night.html

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This article makes me uncomfortable, because it's an issue that isn't being discussed much now, but will likely be a major issue in the GE if Hillary gets the nomination.

20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Hillary’s Greatest Weakness. She needs to put distance between herself and Obama. (Original Post) Dem2 Nov 2015 OP
Six Questions cantbeserious Nov 2015 #1
Don't you get tired of posting this same thread BlueMTexpat Nov 2015 #13
No cantbeserious Nov 2015 #15
Well, you now have the dubious BlueMTexpat Nov 2015 #17
The Feeling Is Mutually Dubious Of Distinction cantbeserious Nov 2015 #19
Supporting Obama is one of her strengths. I'm sure her opponents would like nothing better upaloopa Nov 2015 #2
My reaction too! eom BlueMTexpat Nov 2015 #14
Underestimated ISIS? What if that is true, would you have had him send TROOPS? randys1 Nov 2015 #3
I agree with her prospective policies Dem2 Nov 2015 #4
Good point, so the asshole cons have to be forced to say "Yes, I will send your son to die in Syria" randys1 Nov 2015 #5
They will happily stir up their angry base into sending their own children to die. Dem2 Nov 2015 #7
Not in the primary BainsBane Nov 2015 #6
So what does not underestimating the murderers mean? randys1 Nov 2015 #8
That's a reference to the Obama administration's public statements about 18 months ago BainsBane Nov 2015 #9
I know but my fear is what will be proposed to respond to recent events. randys1 Nov 2015 #10
Last night it sounded to me like both Sanders and O'Malley were BainsBane Nov 2015 #12
That was Hillary's POV when she pressed for regime changes in Libya and Syria leveymg Nov 2015 #20
I disagree--and I get the impression that some of SLATE's writers would prefer a GOP POTUS. MADem Nov 2015 #11
Why on earth should she do that? BlueMTexpat Nov 2015 #16
No way! leftofcool Nov 2015 #18

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
2. Supporting Obama is one of her strengths. I'm sure her opponents would like nothing better
Sun Nov 15, 2015, 01:58 PM
Nov 2015

than for Hillary to start attacking Obama, He will campaign for her as will his administration as will Bill Clinton.

That is one reason she has a wider base of support than Bernie has.

Thanks for the advice but no thanks

randys1

(16,286 posts)
3. Underestimated ISIS? What if that is true, would you have had him send TROOPS?
Sun Nov 15, 2015, 02:03 PM
Nov 2015

Since I and many others think the answer is to completely get the holy hell OUT of the ME, what would not underestimating them look like to you or whoever?

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
4. I agree with her prospective policies
Sun Nov 15, 2015, 02:06 PM
Nov 2015

My only concern is the ads the Republicans will run next fall.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
5. Good point, so the asshole cons have to be forced to say "Yes, I will send your son to die in Syria"
Sun Nov 15, 2015, 02:07 PM
Nov 2015

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
7. They will happily stir up their angry base into sending their own children to die.
Sun Nov 15, 2015, 02:12 PM
Nov 2015

Nobody ever said Republican voters had their own best interests at heart. It's an emotional thing with many on that side I think. I know actually - look at how they are responding to an idiot moron carnival barker and a compulsive liar.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
9. That's a reference to the Obama administration's public statements about 18 months ago
Sun Nov 15, 2015, 02:19 PM
Nov 2015

that downplayed ISIS, underestimating their strength, capacity to amass territory, and the threat they posed to the region and beyond.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
10. I know but my fear is what will be proposed to respond to recent events.
Sun Nov 15, 2015, 02:22 PM
Nov 2015

Which candidate, if any, has the understanding that any and all reactions guarantee more of this.

BainsBane

(53,031 posts)
12. Last night it sounded to me like both Sanders and O'Malley were
Sun Nov 15, 2015, 02:39 PM
Nov 2015

trying to out hawk Hillary. I thought she came off as more circumspect in regard to US military intervention against ISIS.

I don't think think that is a military conflict that can be avoided. They all said they would pursue it. The difference was in the role the US would play, whether leading or backup.

Clinton's point that the enemy is not radical Islam is an important one. Bernie is wrong that it doesn't matter. Clinton knows from her experience as a diplomat that the language we use in describing these situations is enormously important. She was clear the threat is from those who act violently, not the ideology/religion. The difference is crucial.

She also has a more informed and nuanced view of the situation. For example, Bernie's comment that the Mooselims (sorry, his pronunciation jumped out at me) aren't doing their part was a broad brushed statement that doesn't apply to every Muslim nation, as Clinton pointed out.

I do believe Bernie did better in talking about the Iraq War and the the destabilization that it created. While Clinton is right that there are a myriad of factors that led to the rise of ISIS, she underestimated our role.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
20. That was Hillary's POV when she pressed for regime changes in Libya and Syria
Sun Nov 15, 2015, 04:50 PM
Nov 2015

Creating the opportunity for Jihadists to gain territory and a base og operations to spread terrorism.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
11. I disagree--and I get the impression that some of SLATE's writers would prefer a GOP POTUS.
Sun Nov 15, 2015, 02:28 PM
Nov 2015

They like coming at a subject from an oppositional POV.


There are a lot of people, minority voters, particularly, who regard Clinton as an extension in some fashion to the Obama administration. She was his Secretary of State, after all, "first chair" in his cabinet.

Where she differs, she has to do so respectfully, and for every "difference," she'd do well to point out two similarities where she agrees with him, AND give him some propers while she's at it.



BlueMTexpat

(15,366 posts)
16. Why on earth should she do that?
Sun Nov 15, 2015, 04:07 PM
Nov 2015

President Obama, like Hillary's husband Bill, is one of the most admired US Presidents.

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