I DON'T Trust Hillary

[Segami]

Quite frankly, I don't believe her as well. She is a confirmed liar to many of her Democratic supporters ( on more than one occasion), that even many DU Hillary supporters on this board can't deny.



Here is a snip from yesterday's post that read as follows:

"...In the end, she will betray them or she will betray us. It’s pretty sad that a fundamental component of your campaign is an admission you’re lying to someone else. I promise I’ll betray them and not you..."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=815703

Question:

1/ Would any DU members believe Marco, Ted or Jeb if they promised us they wouldn't be influenced by all the Koch & Adelson, WallStreet/Banks & big corporate money donations? Does anyone here honestly believe that they would turn their backs on their donors and fight for us once they are elected?

YES or NO?

2/ Are we right to distrust anyone who makes such promises to us that they would never be influenced by such donations, even if that person was a Democrat who is promising to betray them and not us?

YES or NO?

[still_one]

1. Should I trust some folks who say they won't vote for the Democratic nominee if it is not their

preferred candidate?

Interestingly, throughout the years I have seen a lot of posts saying similar things about President Obama on this forum.

[Segami]

3. Of course,....misdirection and nothing to say.

thanks for the kick.

[still_one]

10. and thanks for the flame bait which repeats the same thing ad nauseam everyday

[Segami]

18. Just answer the questions and be on your way..

Very simple....

[Surya Gayatri]

33. Ad nauseum and ad absurdum. Never been so close to putting s.o. on ignore. First time ever.

[still_one]

37. I personally never put anyone on ignore, because I think it is good to see what others

are thinking, whether I agree with it or not.

Each to our own preference though

[Surya Gayatri]

40. I never have either, and for the same reason. But, the overkill is

almost intolerable.

I wonder sometimes if certain posters realize how crazed and obsessive they come across.

[still_one]

46. LOL

[Tommy2Tone]

38. Wait...there is a way to put someone on ignore?

I know where I would start.

[Surya Gayatri]

42. Yes, it's one of the favorite features of the board for some.

[MoonRiver]

75. Personally I now prefer trash thread.

[randys1]

6. Excellent point, wish I had said it.

[Martin Eden]

25. It's not a point, it's a red herring and a deflection

However, I do understand why Hillary supporters would prefer deflection & red herring to answering the two simple questions in the OP.

[billhicks76]

53. Our Country Sucks Because The Bushes And Clintons Teamed Up

[randys1]

2. How much will Wall STreet donate to the GOP candidate, then compare that to Hillary

You have to wait I suppose until they have a nominee, too many now for them to choose from.

[Martin Eden]

26. You're right. Hillary owes favors to Wall Street, but perhaps not as much as Republicans.

What a ringing endorsement!!!

[d_legendary1]

52. "They're more crooked than my crook!"

[randys1]

54. Do you think there is a difference, or as I believe a GIGANTIC DIFFERENCE

between the two parties on social issues that actually have life and death implications?

[d_legendary1]

73. Doesn't matter what you believe

If the candidate you want to vote for is being financed by the same people who are financing the Republicans, does it make a difference who you're voting for? We voted for a guy who can complete sentences without stuttering and he's pushing TPP down our throats (case in point BTW).

[randys1]

76. No difference then? Tell that to the Women who will want healthcare to include

reproductive healthcare after these assholes take it away from them.


http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/17/supreme-court-abortion-case-texas-south-midwest?CMP=share_btn_fb

Now imagine instead of 5 cons on the court, 7.

[d_legendary1]

77. TPP is gonna render the court harmless

and guess who was for TPP before she was against it? Kinda ironic, isn't it?

[randys1]

78. Harmless? What in the WORLD are you TALKING ABOUT !!!

[randys1]

79. You dont really believe what you said, that TPP will render the court harmless when

it comes to social issues, now do you.

[d_legendary1]

80. Try reading what's in the TPP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016136682

and when you can expect it to be law

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027337385

And as the "gold standard" of trade agreements those pesky justices won't be able to strike down third party agreements. See how this works and who wanted it before being against it?

[randys1]

81. So bEcause of TPP the SC wont be able to overturn ROE ? SERIOUSLY?

[d_legendary1]

82. How did you go from Wall Street to abortion?

I think my job is done.

[Betty Karlson]

4. Cue the 'but the GOP is worse' responses.

It's not like we still have a lot of primaries to go through, and elect someone other than Clinton, right?

[JaneyVee]

5. So what you're saying is...

No one from NY is allowed to run for prez because their constituents may work on Wall Street and donate? While simultaneously believing that Hillary is running for prez to break all her promises and ensure her legacy is one of failure and betrayal?

[Segami]

8. No, you're saying that.

I understand your purpose here is to deflect or misdirect this thread.

Just answer the simple questions......thats all.

[JaneyVee]

13. No and no.

[artislife]

17. Yes and Yes. nt

[MrMickeysMom]

29. No one from NY?

Holy cow... You're really reaching there, JaneyVee.

You DO realize some of the best are from NY. Why, I lived there myself for some time!

[floriduck]

49. Sorry, WRONG answer.

If the donations came from tellers or bank management who live in New York, your faulty premise would make some sense. But the hundreds of thousands of dollars from Goldman Sachs or some other firm come from the corporate political action funds. They spend it on whomever they think will support their efforts the most.

You actually know this or you really are uninformed. Are you sure you should vote?

[FreakinDJ]

7. word

[Autumn]

9. I don't trust her.

Hillary seems to be willing to say whatever she needs to say to get elected. I didn't watch the debate and had no desire to read the threads on it so I don't know what the betrayal thing is about, but you can bet that Wall Street and the other biggies are not giving donations to her campaign out of the goodness of their heart.

[Segami]

16. About the 'betrayal thing'

Here is a post from DailyKos questioning Hillary's positions with WallStreet vs. main street.

Who will Hillary betray, WallStreet or Main street?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/15/1450245/-Even-At-Its-Best-Clinton-Campaign-Rests-on-a-Promise-of-Betrayal

[MaggieD]

11. That explains it

I was wondering why you smear her so routinely. LOL!

[Segami]

12. Don't confuse truth with smear...

It might sound great in your mind buts its not the truth.

LOL. back at ya!.......

[artislife]

19. They think it is a smear or an attack, it is really an awareness. nt

[Metric System]

15. I for one am SHOCKED that the OP has issues with Hillary. I was completely unaware.

[Surya Gayatri]

44. Good one! LOL!

[Persondem]

14. I don't trust YOU to have an objective bone in your body concerning Clinton

Who made you the arbiter of all things believable?

I have been pushing back against the lies of Sanders supporters here for months.

What a BS OP ... you really think this will do anything for worthwhile discussion around here?

Lame rec bait is all it is.

[Segami]

20. I am objective...but

I don't trust or believe Hillary or Bill.....period. They have orchestrated a wonderland of controlled theater and illusions for all of us to remain in awe. That is not the underbelly of truth once the onion layers are peeled back....

[floriduck]

51. Segami, you really hit a nerve with this post.

I congratulate you for forcing the Hill people to make up excuses for an action that is indefensible. If Hill would just say she intends to take care of her contributors, we could put this issue to rest. But all these sheep can't handle knowing Hill will protect her cronies while pretending she is the saint they thought she was.

Kudos, man.

[Persondem]

65. Oh please ... you are the antithesis of objective. Your mind is so made up it's pathalogical.

Here's the proof ...

"They have orchestrated a wonderland of controlled theater and illusions for all of us to remain in awe."

How much tin foil do you go through in a month?

[Segami]

66. It's pathological not pathalogical...

learn to insult with good spelling.


Its not me living in a dream world fill with Clinton illusions.......give yourself some time to reflect and maybe you might arrive at a point of clarity in your strained life instead of shooting off your mouth with some lame-brained insult.

How much foil do I go through a month?.....wow, thats pretty witty for a sandbox grad.


Drink to you.

[MrMickeysMom]

22. Just for thinking that I'm baited...

I'll rec it now...

[MrMickeysMom]

21. Bernie responded to this best...

"They might be dumb, but I don't think so..."

It's like the cold war (trust, but verify) with these 3rd way / DLC infused Democrats. Not just Hillary...

I missed the real Democrats.. and then Bernie decided to step up.

[Segami]

23. Thank you...I also agree with Bernie!

Its not so difficult of a posed question to answer. Its not intended to smear anyone except reveal a truth within ourselves.

There really is no need for all this excitement over a few, honest questions. Some arrive on this thread contributing nothing but insults and self-serving drivel.

[MrMickeysMom]

28. Segami...

This is how I feel. I'm glad we ask these questions. I don't give a hoot who may be insulted these questions, either. And when we ask them, what we do get? verbal attacks, alert baiting and basically temper tantrums. Not only are we insulted for demanding that candidates be honest... We are baited by a strategy designed to shut us up.

Well, I admit that I may need to keep my come-backs less snarky than I do at times... BUT, I do NOT need to shut up. THEY, rather, need to use their given ability to use higher order THINKING skills. I'd assume most of us have it here, but some of us would rather use that strategy instead.

Kick!

[peacebird]

24. I totally trust Hillary to veer hard right if she gets the nom, & work for her corporate owners

I trust Bernie to work hard for the American people.

[CharlotteVale]

45. +1

[ibegurpard]

27. Nor do I

And nor do many people who should be natural Democratic Party constituents. The refusal to acknowledge this will be our downfall.

[lame54]

30. Question 3:...

Would voting against Hillary (If she is the nominee) be a ridiculously bad idea?

Hell yes it would

[Aldo Leopold]

39. But is that a valid reason to support her?

[Martin Eden]

31. I don't trust Hillary on foreign policy, either. She's a hawk.

Perpetual war to enrich the MIC and the financial game rigged to enrich Wall Street speculators are two of the biggest problems we face as a country and in our efforts to make the Democratic Party serve the interests of The People.

I don't think Hillary Clinton is some kind of evil conspirator. She's an establishment politician with decades among the rich and powerful. Ultimately, she is one of them and serves to sustain the status quo.

[Segami]

34. Nicely said...

Your concern runs parallel to my questions. The end results are the same.

There seems to be two rules of thought here...If republicans do something unethical, we disapprove of it but if Democrats are guilty of the same, we tend to look the other way, and in some cases, mask it.

[zalinda]

32. No and

no. She's going to betray someone, and it is probably the 99%.

Z

[Tommy2Tone]

35. So we can put you in the "not voting for Hillary" column?

[Fuddnik]

59. Making a list and checking it twice?

It's not even Black Friday yet.

[raindaddy]

36. You'd have to be naive to trust Hillary

She made over 3 million dollars in one year for just giving speeches to Wall Street banks.. Anyone who thinks these gifts won't be returned has no idea what this system has become..

The Clinton's are worth over 50 million dollars. Their careers as public servants have been very lucrative. Since when did getting elected to office become the golden highway to extreme wealth? Don't think that's what the founding fathers had in mind.

[pangaia]

50. I would not by any stretch of the imagination

call them public servants. Bernie Sanders is a public servant.
To the Clintons politics is a job, just a way to make money.

[raindaddy]

57. Agreed pangaia..

I was being sarcastic...

[pangaia]

61. roger that...

[SoapBox]

41. I wouldn't trust her to walk our dog.

She's a total Shape Shifter.

[Fuddnik]

58. My dogs love people.

I don't think they'd go near her.

[99th_Monkey]

43. Hillary is a very dodgy character, highly skilled at obfuscating and using weasel-words

always leaving herself an "out" later, to "evolve" down the road if she decides to ...

I don't know how anyone who's paying the least bit of attention could think otherwise,
but hey, she's better than Trump --who consulted with Big Dawg about running for
POTUS before announcing.

[ChiciB1]

47. Just Giving This A HUGE KICK! I Don't Either! n/t

[SmittynMo]

48. The choice is quite clear.

With Bernie, there's NO trust issue at all. NONE. ZIP. NADA.

So, if trust is an huge issue with the candidate you support, change your vote.

[EEO]

55. Hear, Hear.

[840high]

56. k/r

[CoffeeCat]

60. She's a scoundrel and she's in it for herself..

She thinks she's entitled to the Presidency, not because she wants to work for the people, because she thinks this is her time.

Trusting her? Hello no.

She's in bed with the neocons. Granddaddy of the neocons, Robert Kagan, praised her foreign-policy stances, and said that he had "no problem" with her approach to Middle East politics.

She's always a liar, but during the campaign season the lies evolve into this shellacked facade of fiction on steroids.

It's nearly intolerable.

So glad that the latest debate exposed a bit of truth.

[Jack Rabbit]

62. I don't trust Hillary and I don't trust the establishment that's cheeerleading for her

Not the media, not the pundits and certainly not her crooked bankers.

[azmom]

64. [phone]

[Unknown Beatle]

63. Obama received a boatload of money from Wall St. and we

trusted him do the right thing, which is to protect Americans and not Wall St. That backfired on us almost immediately upon his swearing in in 2009 by appointing Timothy Geithner as secretary of the treasury.

Trust Clinton will do the same thing should she be president.

[Juicy_Bellows]

68. Truth.

You said it!

[ladyVet]

72. That's why I have no interest in voting for another candicate to do the same.

Bernie has not had to "evolve", he's been on point on the issues for decades. He doesn't have to explain who he would betray, he's never let anyone down. Bernie doesn't have to kneel before Wall Street, he hasn't been bought.

Anybody who says we'll have anything like a true Democratic presidency with Hillary is either foolish, or lying. All we'll get is a slower slide to the right, and maybe DU will be united like it was under Bush.

[marym625]

67. Great posts. both this and the linked OP

I was writing a why I don't trust her post but with WillyT, you and Sabrina1, there's nothing left to add.

Except No Child Left Behind and the Patriot Act.

K&R!

[Juicy_Bellows]

69. Perhaps your questions are too complicated.

Regardless, trusting Hillary, even in a political sense, is absolutely foolish.

If you got money and are pretty comfy you might be swayed but then i suggest you read more Dickens and wake the fuck up. Tis the season.....

[stillwaiting]

70. On DU, if you got money and are pretty comfy you might AGGRESSIVELY champion Hillary as the best

candidate for the Democratic Party while simultaneously mocking and ridiculing those who support Bernie. Classy bunch.

Not saying that all DU Hillary supporters are financially comfy, but many certainly are and have stated so right here. Again, classy bunch.

The above mentioned DU supporters know EXACTLY what Hillary will do as President. Believe it.

[Scuba]

71. I can't imagine any thinking person trusting Hillary.

[EndElectoral]

74. She knows those contributions impact access and policy. She's not going to admit it. Who would?