2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI Resist...
Anybody Else Find The "Erasing" Of History, Fascinating When It Comes To Being A Democrat ???FDR, JFK, LBJ, MLK, RFK... Hell, Thomas Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt (yeah, I know), Abraham Lincoln (yeah, I know)...
I thought it was obvious... whetever household you grew up in, at some point you find your own political bearings. You read/study history, you see the good and bad, you grow to be able to vote, and then you cast your ballots.
Fairly straight forward.
But with so many posts here trying to tear down FDR and others (yeah, I know)...
Nobody bothers to ask... why YOU became a Democrat.
I wasn't born when FDR was alive, so I have no memory. I WAS born during Eisenhower... still no memories.
Being in the 3rd grade when JFK was shot down, I started to pay attention.
MLK, RFK, Chicago 1968... paying more attention.
Jr. College in 1973, registered to vote 1974, voted Jerry Brown 1974... continued college... took history classes... learned a bunch.
My point is... when others try to poo-poo the very reasons, the very history you rely on to choose your possible political party, which influences your actual vote...
It seem to be very counter-productive.
What it suggests to me... is that none of what happened before matters, you need to get with the party decision... THIS TIME ASAP... and everything else is selfish/self-indulgent hooey.
I resist.
It was my life and I will vote according to MY principles.
I ain't your cog.
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daleanime
(17,796 posts)
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
DJ13
(23,671 posts)are part of that feared influx of conservatives we worried that might seek refuge from the insanity that the GOP now represents, now trying to remake our party into a Reagan wet dream at the expense of everyone else in the party.
They also tend to support Third Way (DLC) candidates, and wont think twice about using dubious tactics to gain power.
Its just a shame they didnt stay Republicans so they could have kept the lunatics out of power in the GOP.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
DJ13
(23,671 posts)Sorry!
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Now... I think they are abandoning Independents to become Democrats.
Can you say... "Power Vacuum ???"
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)dem to me. Period.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Or neo-liberals / corporatists at best. Still nothing conservative about them. They are, and always will be, the radicals in the races.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)That's the mantra of the GOP, and I am not happy it seems to be corroding the Democratic Party. The line is becoming too blurred for my liking.
When MONEY is the most important factor in an election, that's what we get. It's impossible to maintain integrity, no matter the party.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
Avalux
(35,015 posts)He also is closer to what being a Democrat means to me than the other candidates.
Yet he is scorned like he's some sort of naive buffoon by the party faithful.
Shame on them.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Sure seems like when you get ready to remind some people of that, they lash back with a vengeance. What's that called? I call it not being a Democrat. Maybe they never were.
Well, FDR welcomed the hate of all the corporate masters, so I'll shame them right along with you.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)Bernie is not a yes man spouting the party line. He calls them as he sees them and that makes people uncomfortable. We can't have someone telling the truth about the lame bills put forth by the party. We can't have someone telling the truth about the corrupt members selling us out to the 1%. We can't have someone telling the truth about failed foreign policy. Some would rather stick their heads in the sand and pretend everything is just hunky dory. All we need to do is clap louder.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)One major candidate very clearly represents real change. The other major democratic candidate represents stasis, stagnancy, even tolerance of the status quo.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)If our party ("leaders"
will not step up and realize/recall this, then we will all be forced to contend with worse.
History has taught me to say that same thing.
1968 and now aren't so far apart, are they?
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
There's a mood out there, that is not conducive to the Party Poo-Bahs.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)I was going to alert but then I ...... nah. I have some very good color photos from then. It shows lots of blood and shit. If you want I can forward them to you.
1968? Oh this, I got to see.
So because I don't support an old '8-Track' Man for President I'm a Party Poo-Bah? I'm okay with that.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
DianeK
(975 posts)what a shameful time that was in so many ways
WillyT
(72,631 posts)And thought... after Berkeley and Kent State, and everything else...
Their shooting students now ???
One wonders how big a lie we've been sold, growing up "American"?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)AND an 'old eight track woman' running in this race. Two people from the same generation. I just wondered why you applied what, no doub,t you considered to be an insult to only one of them.
For me, age is a plus generally, it helps us get a picture of how consistent a politician has been over the years. Plus I'm not a fan of ageism.
Or any other ism.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)
But at some point reach resonance.
aidbo
(2,328 posts)
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)Really spices up the place.
CentralMass
(16,973 posts)Phase
When capacitors or inductors are involved in an AC circuit, the current and voltage do not peak at the same time. The fraction of a period difference between the peaks expressed in degrees is said to be the phase difference. The phase difference is <= 90 degrees. It is customary to use the angle by which the voltage leads the current. This leads to a positive phase for inductive circuits since current lags the voltage in an inductive circuit. The phase is negative for a capacitive circuit since the current leads the voltage. The useful mnemonic ELI the ICE man helps to remember the sign of the phase. The phase relation is often depicted graphically in a phasor diagram.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/phase.html#c2
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)They represent oscillation, loosely. But by Euler's equation, capacitance is 1/jWC, and inductance is jWL. The imaginary number can be gotten rid of for electronics.
However, bust your way into Quantum Mechanics, and that imaginary number pops up again, but this time there ain't no getting rid of it!
CentralMass
(16,973 posts)
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)of integrity, but very effective domestically. On the
other hand Carter was a very sincere man, unfortunately
not that effective.
What has come afterwards was a very effective way
of leading the Dems in the wrong direction, and a lot
of us were duped, including myself.
HAPPY to see someone is a candidate trying to
guide us back, as well as demanding to do our civic
duty to get seriously involved.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)have been and are saddened by the direction our party has taken since the election of Bill Clinton...Yes, we voted for him...and we watched as he screwed the people over and over again...Democratic Loser Committee and From's Turd Way have turned Democratic principals completely upside-down...FDR would no longer be welcome in the Democratic leadership...Yes, I was alive when he was president...
WillyT
(72,631 posts)We used to give a shit.
Admiral Loinpresser
(3,859 posts)
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)And now we are watching some on Du use the exact same arguments and trying to pin on some liberal-sounding fig leaves to their rhetoric.
Rose Siding
(32,629 posts)Even though he was very wealthy, and he made some bad choices (SS St Louis, detainment camps) we owe him a lot.
Does it bother you knowing Sanders tore down JFK and liberalism? He said he "saw through" them and JFK made him "physically nauseated" for not supporting Fidel Castro.
Odd there's a thread questioning Hillary supporters' loyalty to longstanding principles of the Democratic Party.
You'd know Hillary isn't a "big money conservative" if you look into her policy paper-
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/p/briefing/factsheets/2015/10/08/wall-street-work-for-main-street/
Does Bernie provide detailed policy like that?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Thanks, WillyT. Great premise
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)I have seen too many wars in real life to elect another DINO.
Bernie marched with MLK.
That's all we need to know about how he feels about issues concerning race, equality, and justice for all.
The peeps who came to this forum and claimed that Bernie was a racist during the summer no longer have any say in this campaign.
They have no integrity.
They have no veritas.
They have nothing.
They can trash FDR all they want, it won't matter one bit to me.
They can bash JFK all they want, it won't make any difference to me.
They are wasting their time even posting that garbage, as far as I am concerned.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)overwhelmingly support FDR's policies which have save so many lives from the horrors of extreme poverty. Just remember, that a lot of people who spend their time trying to excuse the attempt to destroy those Democratic policies are most likely among the now few very privileged, and very white demographic.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Was there a Year Zero that I missed ???
I could really use it since I just turned 60.
marym625
(17,997 posts)
#Bernie2016
#FeelTheBern
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Recently turned 60... can you tell ???
marym625
(17,997 posts)Belated as it is!
Nope, you don't look a day over 30!
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
marym625
(17,997 posts)30 I tell ya!!! 
mmonk
(52,589 posts)So glad you're still here.
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)I was in third grade too when JFK was assassinated. I remember it like it was yesterday. My teacher came into the room crying hysterically. We were all sent home from school immediately. I went home to find my mom crying. When my dad got home from work, he was distraught. EVERYONE grieved that loss of a Great President. It was a sad and traumatic day. Anyone that derides JFK and FDR are not Democrats. PERIOD.
We still have a JFK portrait proudly displayed in our home office.
Yeah, the Vietnam War, the '68 Democratic Convention, the endless Vietnam War protests (in those days we had REAL JOURNALISTS, ON THE GROUND COVERING THEM and they were actually shown on TEEVEE) the Civil Rights battles of the day, the Kent State massacres, the abortion rights fight, the women's lib fight, Watergate, etc....every single bit of that formed who I am and how I vote today.
Bernie was THERE, fighting the good fight.
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... threatening to toss me out of some club or website won't change that.
I went door to door for Bobby Kennedy. No fucking Johnny-come-lately, neoliberal will ever tell me what a Democrat is supposed to be.
Only one person owns my vote, me.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
Scuba
(53,475 posts)My parents were Republicans, active in the party. Both would be aghast at what that party has become today.
Ike built the interstate highways (that socialist bastard!), warned of the MIC (that fucking hippie!) and brought both Alaska and Hawaii into statehood (my god, both were full of brown people!).
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
Utopian Leftist
(534 posts)a true, anti-establishment liberal getting the Democratic nomination for President.
Unless we count Jimmy Carter, but he was elected 40 years ago.
We liberals have waited more patiently and for longer than could be humanly expected.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)And they want us to wait... once again.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)I registered as a Democrat in 1966 so I could vote in the primaries. I'm no longer a Democrat because my state no longer registers by party.
So, I'm now technically an Independent. Which is fine with me because I never felt bound to the Democratic Party. I didn't marry it and owed it no allegiance or loyalty.
"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)
MineralMan
(151,269 posts)was President. My parents remember him, but they're 91 years old now. I was born with Truman as President, just a couple of weeks before the Hiroshima bomb was dropped. The development of nuclear weapons happened on FDR's watch. I can't remember a time when I wasn't opposed to nuclear weapons. I still am.
I went to grammar school with a kid who had been in an internment camp with her parents, who essentially lost everything when they were forced into them.
Was FDR a great President? Yes, on some scores. For single issue people, however, his push to develop nuclear weapons, which were ready in time for Truman to use, can alter his record. For Japanese Americans who were interned and their children, FDR doesn't look so great, either.
On FDR's watch, Hitler's Germany was allowed to round up Jewish people, imprison them, make them slaves, and then kill them. We knew about that, but failed to act. Here's an article that gets into some of that: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/07/opinion/la-oe-medoff-roosevelt-holocaust-20130407
It's tempting to look at historical records of Presidents who died before we were born with a lopsided point of view. Yes, he brought us out of the Great Depression and instituted many economic policies of enormous value. That does not mean, however, that he did not make grievous mistakes as well.
It's pretty much always a poor idea to lionize former Presidents, based on only a portion of what they did, especially if they served over 70 years ago. It was a different America and a different time, altogether.
I still hate that nuclear weapons were created and used. I still hate it that American citizens of Japanese ancestry were put into internment camps. FDR did those things, too.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)
I could not reply when posted, allowing free speech seems not to be a strong point to some.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Third grade, teacher re-enters the room crying. That was my first awareness of government.
For most of my 60 years, (yes, I just turned 60 as well) I was the black sheep in my very conservative family. My mother was quite liberal, but she passed when I was young, and I inherited a stepmother who encouraged me to read Ayn Rand when I was 18. That should tell you everything you need to know about what I've been dealing with for almost my entire life.
My father just turned 90 and is suffering from dementia. In one of his more lucid moments, he shared some history of the family with me. He said his parents were big supporters of FDR and he thinks it is just fine that I am a liberal. I cannot tell you how freeing that was to my soul and my father knew it was important to share his sentiment of acceptance before he slips into oblivion.
I think the Democratic party is in a fight for its very soul now. This is the moment to reject the corporate control of our party and return to our roots. The very essence of what they called themselves at one time, The Third Way, indicates they're different than the Democratic Way. And they are. And we realize this because we remember our roots.
I'm so encouraged to see Millennials fighting to get back to those roots. 