2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSecond Democratic Debate Proves Why Sanders Is BETTER Than Clinton
"...Hillary Clintons influence on the Democratic Partywho have treated her as not only the front runner, but as their nominee throughout the campaignBernie Sanders faces an uphill battle. Not only must he convince voters to support him, but he also faces a strong Democratic establishment geared toward his defeat because of his integrity in favoring principles and what is best for the American public over party politics and what unifies Democrats..."
There are countless reasons why Senator Bernie Sanders is a superior presidential candidate to his rival, Hillary Clinton. The second Democratic debate further highlighted this. Ms. Clintons biggest gaffe of the night was a nonsensical tangent about 9/11 and her female donors, when confronted on her ties to Wall Street. Her divergent tactics were poorly executed and embarrassing for the Democratic Party as a whole. Some of the biggest donors to the Clinton Foundation include the largest banks in the country, such as Citigroup, Bank of America, and Goldman Sachs. Despite both Mr. Sanders and Ms. Clinton spending the majority of their careers in public service, only Ms. Clinton has used it to make several million dollars for herself, and she has done this, in part, through political favors to large banks and corporations. Her ties to Wall Street were further
Hillary Clintons corruption isnt limited to Wall Street. The Chair of the DNC, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, was also Co-Chair of Ms. Clintons 2008 campaign. Ms. Wasserman Schultz strategically limited and scheduled the debates to protect Hillary Clinton as Barack Obama defeated her through confronting Ms. Clinton on her inconsistent political record. Still it continues, as the second Democratic debate of the 2016 election cycle was the only one to take place in Iowa, and was scheduled on a Saturday night when the Iowa Hawkeyeswho have been undefeated this football seasonplayed nationally ranked Minnesota.
Voters become disenchanted with the political system because of people like Hillary Clinton. Her complaint to Mr. Sanders during the debatein response to discussing the corrupt role money plays in politicsthat he was trying to impugn her integrity, might be true if she had any integrity to impugn. As Mr. Obama pointed out in his 2008 campaign against her, Ms. Clinton flips frequently on issues to whatever stance wins her greater political favor. There is no case in which she has changed her mind or stood her resolve on a controversial issue based on principles like Mr. Sanders did in his opposition to the Iraq War, despite nearly unanimous favoritism by congress and the public at the time. Ms. Clinton admitted making a mistake in voting for the Iraq War, but the American public cannot afford another mistake like that from future presidential administrations.
Lies and exaggerations were a significant part of Ms. Clintons rhetoric during the second Democratic debate. She touted that the majority of her donors, 60 percent, were women. She failed to mention her opponent, Senator Bernie Sanders outnumbers her in overall small donor contributions, including from women. Ms. Clinton lied again when she said, I have hundreds of thousands of donors, most of them small. Only 17 percent of her donors give contributions of $200 or less, compared to 74 percent for Mr. Sanders. While debating minimum wage and economic policy, Ms. Clinton bragged about Princeton economist Alan Krueger supporting her minimum wage proposal of raising it to $12 an hour, yet in a New York Times op-ed, Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman acknowledged it doesnt matter as long as a Democrat wins the presidency. If a Democrat does win, does it matter which one it is? Probably not. Any Democrat is likely to retain the financial reforms of 2010, and seek to stiffen them where possible, he said. In other words, while there are some differences in financial policy between Ms. Clinton and Mr. Sanders, as a practical matter theyre trivial.
cont'
http://observer.com/2015/11/second-democratic-debate-proves-why-sanders-is-better-than-clinton/
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Managing his campaign and directing his supporters. His leadership abilities are not up to par.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)Leadership abilities? You better get up to speed when he is our President!
Oh, and, most US presidents were NOT Secretaries of State...
Foreign policy requires progressive, liberal, intelligent, and humane qualities...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Yes. They kick ass. I have the internal scarring from such. Yay. So awesome..
Most Democratic Presidents win the dem primary. Which he is not doing. So, maybe you guys should get yourselves READY FOR HILLARY!!! She has experience, intelligence, and the passion to be one of our greatest leaders ever.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)..when there is a real Democrat running for President (i.e. Sanders).
Any chance you care to discuss why you want Clinton as president?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I will even give the snark a rest.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)And, I'll provide my reasons as well. No snark as well...
Truthful criticisms are allowed as well...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I do not like the attitude towards black people from quite a few among his support. It makes me fear they get are doing what he wants them to do or that he doesn't notice, or that he does not care. If you comment on it as a black person, they will one by one, call you names like race nagger, race baiter, or accuse you of using the race card. I do not care if it is only ten percent of his fans, that is a hostile environment for blacks and we should not be subjected to ANY racial bigotry from the left. I saw quite a bit of racism towards BLM. I saw liberal white folks go after the religious views (i am an atheist) of that Seattle protestor. Their lack of understanding of the history of religion in the black community and their attempts to tear her down were pure ignorance. I will not remain in any such group. The reason I push so hard against Sanders even though I agree with him on policy is because he knows how we are being treated and he SAYS NOTHING. Fighting for us? He won't even tell his supporters to stop harassing us. What the heck is he going to do in office when there are racial issues? Ignore them just like he is doing in this campaign? I hope not.
One by one I have family members hit me up about who to vote for. I send them straight here and have them read the posts during the BLM thing from netroots and the one from Seattle. They find the blatant racism and privilege shocking. I judged the Tea Party by their fans, Republicans, Hillary08, and Bernie too, nobody gets a pass, but between Hillary and Bernie? This cycle her supporters are the ones defending black folks, fighting sexism, fighting bigotry, taking their cues from HER, his are fighting the oligarchy, the banks, and us.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)I had to read your post several times to digest everything you wrote...
First off, I am Caucasian. I am proud of my personal lack of racism or bigotry. Doesn't
mean, however, I or anyone else (including you), have not made a mistake or two in that regards. My only
criteria to differentiate people is if they are good or bad people.
I can't imagine real Democrats on this board would hassle you and others about the BLM and the Seattle professor. Could
they be operatives? I really would like a few links to the posts that you provided your family so I can read them myself.
I am not sure what more Sanders could say to you to let you know that a President Sanders will have your back and everyone else as well. Sanders has acknowledge the black youth unemployment and vows to create jobs (like infrastructure jobs) and stop these disastrous trade agreements. Our corporations have closed down 60,000 factories and move those jobs, *our jobs*, overseas. Sanders wants to stop and reverse that. People are happy when they have work.
Sanders wants to increase the minimum wage. When people are making good money, their lives blossom. Sanders wants to make public college education free. College is not only good for an education, it provides for a great social environment. I know this because I lived it (and I paid my own way). And it provides for a decent paying job.
It is pure sickness the way police treat people who are black. Police are murdering black people and it has to stop. Sanders vows to address this. His roots on this stems back to Dr. King and I believe that he will use the bully pulpit to revolutionize law enforcement in the USA. Sanders also wants to end for-profit prisons and will consider legalizing pot (of which I partake).
I don't know, bravenak... Sanders has spoke about all the issues that you mentioned. I believe Sanders means what he says. I trust Senator Sanders. I am sorry he has not provided you with a confidence level you desire.
I appreciate you writing me on this. No matter what, I am always on the side of The People, which includes *all* people, and you and your family.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This one is special:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251687330
The replies to this op:http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026999627
Click the link on this op and you will see it was retracted, but it got full throated approval:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251505656
This one accusing BLM of trying to wage WAR one white liberals. : http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251503212
Attacking BLM protestor for her HIGH SCHOOL BACKPACK BUTTON.: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027060303
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251506368
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)I am sadden that a few posts here on DU have caused you such distress.
Just a note: it is the candidate you should evaluate and not a few people on a
discussion board where names and motives are unknown...
Best of luck...
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I judge Republicans by their supporters too. I don't even BOTHER to listen to the candidates, not with people like that backing them up. Black people have to be much more careful about joining groups with folks like that in it, and we have to know a leader notices stuff like that and respinds swiftly like we are just as important as everybody else, not having to be dealing with bigotry from both ends as if it were acceptable. One reason people left Hillary last time for Barack Obama was because of Ferraro and the way supporters were parroting her lines. Remember that Hillary got rid of her, but it did not stop the bleeding. blacks are strategic voters for the most part, not just pure policy.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Did I typo? Probably a typo on moment.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)...either word will do...
Thanks for the conversation... I don't necessarily agree with you on your reasoning but I respect it.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)addressing that there was a problem and getting rid of her. It helps us to forgive and have confidence in her ability to recognize a problem and attempt to handle it. It does not always fix things but the effort at making us feel included is appreciated.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Patently absurd.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Can't gain support by insulting the intelligence of black voters that are needed to win the primary. Singling them out as UNINFORMED VOTERS that need to EDUCATE THEMSELVES, but say nothing about white voters that overwhelmingly choose Republicans. I find stuff like that to be bigotry.
redruddyred
(1,615 posts)here's how i understood it:
WaPo said a bunch of shit that wasn't necessarily true, cherry-picking quotes and such.
sanders supporters read that logged onto twitter and were like "WHAT THE FUCK YOU GUYS ISN'T THERE A BETTER WAY TO DO THIS".
some chick got back at me with the usual, "they're doing all they can do to tear down blm". which i agree with, enough with the race-baiting blm. i kept asking her questions and eventually she got tired of answering or didn't have answers.
learned later from someone who had been there that there was more of a "conversation" than an "assault". my takeaway was as thus:
1. sanders supporters are really passionate about fixing political corruption, etc, and don't think they can afford to lose
2. blm is really passionate about fixing our murderous cop problem, and doesn't think they can afford to lose
I don't understand why these two groups are yelling at each other, but i think it's the WaPo's fault. nice job bezos.
sheshe2
(83,875 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)It hurts when people turn their backs on you all of a sudden.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)INdemo
(6,994 posts)Union execs love Hillary and that is why exec boards of those unions may endorse Hillary but the majority of the general membership cannot stand Hillary Clinton.They will not vote for her.
The progressive's,the liberals (and Im not talking about the political junkies).I'm talking about the the JFK ,the LBJ and Hubert Humphrey progressives will not vote for Hillary.
She can stand there and preach about being a progressive and how she is all for the middle class till her face turns blue and she will not sway these voters,They will stay home
These voters can't be bought.
Now you can post all of these polls about progressives love Hillary and liberaals love Hillary but if she is the Democratic nominee we will have a Republican President
President Obama's campaign brought a large Majority of these voters out but Hillary Clinton's campaign can only dream about having the grass roots campaign that Obama did.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He cannot get black voters. Obama will help Hillary in the GE like she and Bill helped him.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)However, I think with what is going on right now, we need a strong candidate with foreign policy experience. Bernie or mom have that at all. She knows the players personally. That is very valuable. If the world wasn't a mess, sanders might be good.
TheProgressive
(1,656 posts)Maybe the 'players' will not *want* to work with Clinton and prefer Sanders...
I would think, 'with all that is going on' that Clinton voted for, that America would want
a President who can be reasonable and make the right decisions...
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)country right now.
All the rest are WAR MONGERS! That is what has destroyed our moral authority around the world.
Bernie will restore it though the war mongers will fight him fiercely to keep their wars for profit going.
They are out of control now USING YET ANOTHER TRAGEDY to justify MORE WAR, which is what caused all this in the first place.
We SO NEED a President whose Foreign Policies would have stopped all this right from the beginning.
Too late for all the innocents who have suffered as a result of NEOCON FP. But we have to start somewhere to start putting a stop to the madness.
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)She was a hawk when she voted to give GW Bush authority to invade Iraq, and she's a hawk now.
We can either fund perpetual war, or we can fund health care, education, infrastructure, green energy, etc.
Take your pick.
A vote for Hillary is a vote for the MIC and Wall Street.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)Mush, much better because economic justice is a big part of it.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)She is better. She learned her lesson from allowing surrogates to race bait in 08. She got Schip goimg, fought for women and children, she always speaks up.
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)The vast majority of Bernie supporters are not "hostile" towards blacks -- they were upset at the tactics, and like most people on internet boards they are argumentative and don't walk on egg shells. Bernie and his supporters are much better allies to the AA community than Hillary Clinton will EVER be.
Voting against your own interests based on squabbles on an internet forum doesn't make the least bit of sense.
sheshe2
(83,875 posts)That is your opinion and I think you should listen to the members of AA. You need to listen and not tell them what their best interests are. Sssssh, listen.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)decision not to support Bernie. Just because they see it as nothing does not mean that black people who were targeted or support BLM see it as nothing. Just because you think it is stupid to vote based off of how you are treated by a group rather than pure policy does not make it so. Just because you think you are smarter, does not make it so. It is not just on the internet. I know for fact they send letters. I got one in my mailbox. Some people are so sure that they are right that they do not care how they behave in their quest to get what they want. Many have not shown that they are allies of Blacks that I have seen in this entire cycle. From expressing support for comments by Cornel West, comments like calling Obama 'niggerized', to calling the black community uninformed, labeling us as SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORS in a derisive way, harassing our protestors like BLM, harassing John Lewis for endorsing Hillary, creating terms like race nagger to attack us with, and then pretending nothing is wrong with it, WITH ANY OF IT, I just do not see that as our ally. Now those same loud few are just accusing us of pulling the race card whenever we point out this foul behaiviour. The rest ignore it mostly and expect us to fight their peers alone wile they get to be innocent. How is that an ally, again? An ally would tell their fellow supporters to stfu if they get out of line and weed out the bad actors and point out the trolls themselves rather than expecting an oppressed minority to ignore even MORE RACIST crap, to favor their candidate.
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)... or the social & economic justice impacted by those policies.
That's all I'm saying.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Policies notwithstanding. Why trust someone who says NOTHING?
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)Far from saying NOTHING, Bernie Sanders has a long record -- in both WORD and DEED addressing the concerns of actual black people.
Bernie has long worked to address intrinsic and explicit racism from multiple angles. His extensive record as an advocate of racial justice goes back to his activism in the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s. He is proud to have marched on Washington with Martin Luther King, Jr. and watch him give his I Have a Dream speech. Bernie was also a student leader of the Congress of Racial Equality when he was arrested for protesting institutional segregation. Throughout his three decades in public service, Bernie has both been vocal on issues related to racial justice and voted to support those views a legislative record thats earned him a 100 percent rating from the ACLU and a 100 percent from the NAACP.
Link
bravenak
(34,648 posts)A real fighter for racial justice will always say something when he see things going on. I am still waiting and hope he gets around to it like Hillary got around to getting rid of Ferrarro.
Besides, I was born in the eighties and I need stuff actually connected to the times that I, my mom, and my kids were alive and aware of politics. My mom wasn't born until after 1960. Hillary went to China to give speeches on equal rights, promoted S-chip, and has spent time face to face with th black community. Votes and marches are not everything. Lieberman marched too. So did some republicans. John Lewis beats Bernie on civil rights and he supports Hillary. I have no idea why people kee repeating this stuff to folks who already know about it. His marching and naacp score will not influence very many blacks at all.
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)What he isn't is someone who gets embroiled in fights that take place on internet discussion boards.
I don't know where you get the idea that his vocal support for the AA community is only in his past. Rather than copy & paste, you can read what he has to say these days if you're genuinely interested:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
If what you really want is for Bernie to scold internet trolls, I don't think he's going to do that. Nor should he wade into that mess.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Everyone else that supports our cause are appreciated but they are NOT more of fighters of racism than our children who fight it daily, in school, and in society. It's almost like more credit is given to whites who fight than the blacks who started the movement, fought for years and generations, live though racial violence, like John Lewis, and can never leave their skin and go off to a nice white place to live for forty years as a white person. All they have to do to get more credit than the people who fought daily for years, at extreme personal risk,is to have a good naacp score and a photo of them marching or signing up voters down south.
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)... and most certainly, that is not a reason to choose Hillary Clinton Over Bernie Sanders.
They are both white. They have the skin they were born with. The question is, what have they done and what have they said. Both have good records compared to most white politicians and are head & shoulders above any Republican.
Bernie's record is IMO better, and the policies he champions are far better than Hillary's.
How many people (of all skin hues) died needlessly in the war Hillary voted for and Bernie voted against?
How many domestic programs are being starved of funds because we're spending $trillions on endless wars that only fan the flames in the Middle East?
Who supports a higher minimum wage, universal single payer health insurance, and free higher education?
That's how I weigh things. Your scale may be tipped the other way by some Bernie supporters on internet forums behaving like insensitive assholes, and you of course have the right to calibrate your scale any way you choose.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Diatribes against hillary just make us defensive of her.
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)On a discussion board people debate the positives and negatives of the candidates. There is a considerable amount of legitimate criticism that is not accurately termed a "diatribe" (often a matter of HOW it is expressed). IMO discussions about disagreements on candidates is healthy and necessary. I've learned a lot from other DUers in the 13+ years I've been here. Showing disrespect or hostility is not healthy. I try to avoid doing that myself, but I can get combative when angered. Do you ever get angry during heated debates about issues that are very important to you?
Based on skin color, should we be any less frank with each other in expressing our reasons and the facts & logic for why we think one candidate is better than another? Yes, those of us who are white need to be sensitive and aware of the long and continuing history of injustice against PoC, but within that context our arguments should be judged on the merit of the ideas expressed therein.
I wish DU was a community in which everyone always demonstrated respect and critical thought when discussing the crucially important issues that bring us to a political discussion board in the first place. However, this is the internet. You'll encounter all types, including trolls (sometimes rightwingers in disguise) who are there to provoke hostility in order to divide and conquer.
The first rule I employ for myself is to never, ever, let people like that (whether a rightwing plant or an irrational/immature lefty) push me away from my own best judgment, because if I let them do that, they have won.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Hillary. He voted against ISIS Resolution and ISIS has continued with their terrorist attacks. Sanders votes to continue the defense welfare contracts and then says he wants to cut defense spending, which is it, he wants to vote more money for Lockheed Martin or does he want to cut defense spending. He has pushed the F-35 program even though it is not a good plane, unable to win in a dog fight but he continues to vote for it. Oh, BTW, the helmets for the F-35 cost $400,000 a piece. He has to get on one side of the fence or the other.
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)I've seen so many Hillary supporters twist themselves into crazy knots trying to spin their way out of her IWR vote, it's a wonder they can walk down the street.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)result is Sanders is more of a hawk than Clinton. I am not tying myself in a knot, there are others who are trying to tie knots in the record of Sanders, I don't deny Clinton voted for IWR, can you admit the times Sanders has voted for military action?
Walking down the street, that is snarky, did it help? no
Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)If you're talking about funding troops who are already in the field, that's a different matter entirely.
Sanders voted for the AUMF in the immediate wake of 9/11, to go after the terrorists who actually attacked us. That was entirely justified and reasonable.
If you're trying to say that's the same as voting for the IWR in 2002 when it was apparent the White House Iraq Group was conducting a false marketing campaign to sell the war and the Bush neocons were intent on invading no matter what, you are only fooling yourself.
Repeat:
You are only fooling yourself, and perhaps some other Hillary supporters who are in denial over this crucially important issue.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Martin Eden
(12,875 posts)Sanders voted AGAINST both Iraq wars. Those are the facts. I'm not sure what planet you're living on if you believe otherwise.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)International issues.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)the impact of the PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX on my group, African Americans. A group he is losing with. Along with most others. He never even said he was sorry as Bill Clinton did. Do you think he is proud of his vote and that's why he never apologized?
Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)It's cool.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)global world, without foreign affairs knowledge will not be able to lead our nation in the way it should go.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)whack-a-mole.
sheshe2
(83,875 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Knew enough to foresee the quagmire that would result from invading Iraq -- and warned us about it.
He was right, once again. Sen. Sanders has good judgement.
It's a quality I want in a president.
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)Why it would take 7 months to write a fp speech with all that knowledge?
http://www.wsj.com/articles/hillary-clinton-faces-foreign-policy-challenges-1447807174?alg=y
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)office and trying to keep on top of a campaign that's been more successful, more quickly, than he'd anticipated. And, to be blunt, he didn't need a foreign policy speech ready a year before the first primary. I'd say we're only now getting to the point where voters are becoming interested in details.
senz
(11,945 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)running around taking care of his every need, writing his policy proposals and paving the way everywhere he goes. Hillary has become extremely rich; she has five mansions and a huge staff to do her bidding on everything. Bernie joined the race a few months ago with donations from little people like me. He and his wife do what they can with what they have, and his schedule has been heavy with travel and speeches, trying to get his ideas out there and gain name recognition in a nation that has not been focused on him. That's a huge task without a ton of money and an army of assistants.
Bernie also writes his own policies and speeches -- and he is known to be a very assiduous, very thorough in everything he approaches. He RESPECTS the seriousness of the subject and RESPECTS the American people enough to take the proper time, given his busy schedule.
You probably don't mean your complaint to come across like something Marie Antoinette would say, but given the reality of the situation, that's how it sounded to me. So come on down to earth where the real people live.
drray23
(7,637 posts)However, I see that as a lack of leadership. Part of being a good leader is surrounding yourself with people who can help you. You do not and should not have to do everything yourself. There is no question Bernie believes in his ideas and thought about them, particularly when it comes to domestic policy. I think however, that he needs to start branching out and address other topics. Seeking help from others would be beneficial to him. As a candidate of course, he would set the policy but having aides working with you to craft solid position documents is important.
senz
(11,945 posts)But his funds are limited and his integrity and work ethic are quite high.
I've heard him discuss foreign policy on the Thom Hartmann show, and he always makes good sense because he approaches the subject from the point of view of a non-hegemonic American who cares about what is good for the people of this country. He doesn't think we need to run everything on earth.
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)to write "A More Perfect Union", his March 18, 2008 speech on race relations. ABC broke a story about controversial remarks made by his former reverend, and in 5 days then Senator and candidate Obama wrote a speech -wrote it himself- that could bring you to tears. So it can be done in less than 7 months if one really sets ones heart on it.
Communication is really important for a president. We really got lucky with him.
https://web.archive.org/web/20080608182717/http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/19/nation/na-obamatext19
Is that something Marie Antoinette would say?
You should check your sources on the "five mansions". Looks like that might be an error and I feel certain that accuracy is important to you.
senz
(11,945 posts)When I said "Marie Antoinette," I was speaking of you, Rose, and your demands on Bernie's time. I don't for one second pair Obama up with Hillary; I suspect they don't trust each other at all. It was Hillary's treatment of Obama that originally turned me off to her. No love lost between those two.
Obama's speech on race relations is based partly on personal experience (AA man, former community organizer) and comes from the heart. Foreign policy is more complex and doesn't derive so much from the personal realm of life. Furthermore, you have no idea when Bernie began to write this speech.
As for "communication" -- you haven't heard of the tens of thousands of people who come out to hear Bernie speak? You haven't seen the crowds of wildly cheering supporters? You didn't hear about the rightwing students at the Christian Liberty University who were stunned by what Bernie, a pro-choice secular Jew, had to say to them? He communicates beautifully and well without flowery flourishes.
My info on the Clinton mansions was from a video that someone posted a while back and which I can't find it now. I've seen photos of a couple of Clinton mansions (NY and Wash. D.C.) but cannot locate proof of five mansions.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)At least Bernie never claimed he tried to join the Marine Corps.
Hooh, boy, that one rates right up there with her "dodging bullets in Bosnia" lie.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)I'd like to see them exist on $7.25 an hour.
moobu2
(4,822 posts)besides a few facebook ones.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)But it didn't change my mind. She's still winning. Won't change anyone's mind.
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)smarter people on this planet. You should be Bernie's VP pick. I would apply if I were you. You definitely "Get it".
The article was done with class, and from what I saw, 100% of the data was accurate and truthful.
Sometimes, the truth does hurt. Awwww. Why more people have not seen the light, as you and I have done, is beyond me.
There is NO comparison in the candidates. NONE.
Gman
(24,780 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Hillary will do well if that number goes up.
Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)Ain't that the fucking truth?