Hey SEIU management: you are traitors, will be mocked in history books

[MannyGoldstein]

Your job is not to do favors in exchange for thirty pieces of silver.

Your job is to fight for your members, to fight for better wages and better lives.

War and Wall Street are not good for your membership. Either cough up your alleged polls, or hang your heads in shame.

Shiny, shiny silver.

[DanTex]

1. LOL. Getting hard to tell the satire apart from the non-satirical conspiracy theories.

[ieoeja]

70. I suppose that technically a political campaign is a conspiracy.

You keep using that word in an unusual manner. People normally think of conspiracies as being secret. But there is no reason you could not conspire with people openly. And in this situation, where Hillary openly hired one of the SEIU board members before they voted, the "conspiracy" is out in the open for all to see.

I would simply call it "a smart campaign tactic". But if you prefer to accuse Hillary of "conspiracy" instead of smart campaigning, go for it. I'm not particularly a fan of hers. So I don't mind you impugning her character.

[DanTex]

80. "cough up your alleged polls" is a conspiracy theory.

Also (as you probably know), I'm not accusing Hillary of a conspiracy, I'm accusing the OP of making conspiracy theories.

The conspiracy theories are false, of course. What actually happened is that SEIU went through its standard endorsement procedure, and it turns out that Hillary came out as the best candidate. Not particularly surprising since most Dems prefer Hillary to Bernie, and most working class Dems in particular.

[JonLeibowitz]

140. Polls? Care to link where they polled their membership base?

[merrily]

89. See esp., Reply 21: "Conspiracy Theory:" Foundations of a Weaponized Term

http://www.democraticunderground.com/127710043

It's not a shibboleth, you know.

[Freddie Stubbs]

2. Bernie Sanders will be a footnote at best in history books

Maybe he can get himself a nice job as Fox News like Dennis Kucinich did when this is all over.

[Ed Suspicious]

19. You are flailing and failing.

[Freddie Stubbs]

142. The polls show that Bernie is failing

[misterhighwasted]

21. + 10000 This ^

And the usual book deals, speaking tours
Think Liberty U would ask him back..he'll keep busy & he'll make a very good living

[roguevalley]

59. revenge is best eaten cold. I can't wait. go bernie

[misterhighwasted]

72. Oh ya. Revenge!

Is that what his campaign ends up being about?
Revenge?
Wow..

[JaneyVee]

3. DU is at this point on the Kubler Ross?

By the way, unions thrive on capitalism and Wall Street.

[merrily]

7. You know unions are different from union members, right?

Last edited Thu Nov 19, 2015, 12:04 PM - Edit history (1)

[JaneyVee]

11. I am a proud union member, but my paychecks come from...

Corporate America.

[merrily]

13. Of course they do. Plutocrats have made it so few others have the money to pay anyone.

[misterhighwasted]

17. Yup. too bad no one was out shouting a message in 2014.

DEMS couldn't find the time to make it to the polls & handed the GOP a majority gift.

[ChiciB1]

121. You Know "merrily" Speaking THIS Truth Here Is Only Going To

keep many here posting The Headline from any Union's leadership statement over and over. My family is a Union family and I know many of my Union friends who DO support Bernie. We are aware of what's going on and I have to say it's angered many members because of this.

I also want to add something that I posted before. I live in Florida and it's now "snow-bird" time and I live in an area where they own homes here and visit our state during this time. And calling them "snow-birds" isn't anything negative because we here KNOW that they actually contribute greatly to keeping this state running.

Anyway, just in my small area there are 3 retired families who are here right now. One from Chicago, one from PA and one from St. Louis. Each of them also have friends and visitors who come to visit with them and some who already moved here. Of the 3 I mentioned ALL are Union members who support Bernie and ONE main reason is because they ARE Union members. In fact a couple of us will be going tomorrow to help boxing food for people for Thanksgiving and we will be wearing our Bernie shirts.

All of us know how the HEADLINES work and while it DOES irritate us we know all we can do is make sure we find the best way to work to GOTV and volunteer to help him.

I also want to report ANOTHER thing I've never seen happen in this RED county our local DINO leaning Democratic Party that many of us are uncomfortable with. I've recently been invited to get involved with quite a few people who have decided to form what's being called a Progressive Democratic Party to promote the views of the Democratic Party many of us joined years ago.

Bernie's message is what's driving these changes because so many of us are actually FED UP with what our National Democratic Party is trying to do by trying to keep Bernie's and MOM's message from being heard. How can anyone call what they're doing be called Democracy??? How it will end we don't know, but we know what must be done.

[merrily]

129. Crickets from one of the most persistent posters on the board, though.

GOOD ENOUGH for merrily, LOL!

For now, anyway.

You don't have to sell me on union members. Both my parents were ILGWU. Whenever I have been eligible to be a union member, I have been a union member. Even volunteered to do layout for the union newspaper, most high pressure job there was on the paper because layout started something like 8pm the night before the paper was going out. Layout (me) also had to write headlines. NYC at night and they didn't even give us carfare, let alone a beverage or snack! (Regardless of the organization, I don't like when an organization treats volunteers that poorly. Didn't occur to me then, just thinking in hindsight.)

I also want to report ANOTHER thing I've never seen happen in this RED county our local DINO leaning Democratic Party that many of us are uncomfortable with. I've recently been invited to get involved with quite a few people who have decided to form what's being called a Progressive Democratic Party to promote the views of the Democratic Party many of us joined years ago.

Sounds good to me.

[bread_and_roses]

97. What? Unions "thrive" on CAPITALISM & WALL STREET???????

Forgive me if you are being sarcastic and I didn't get it.

If you are serious I have to ask what planet you are on? As a union member I would expect you to have some idea of the catastrophic collapse in membership in the private sector and the non-stop, extremely well-funded and relentless union -busting campaigns that the private sector routinely engages in?

Unions are much stronger in, for instance, France, which is much closer to "democratic socialism" than it is to the near-unfettered capitalism and Corporate Oligarchy we have in the US

[99Forever]

4. Anyone still wondering why union membership keeps declining in America?

SEIU "leadership" is as corrupt as the politicians they endorse.

[merrily]

8. Something like the reason such a small percentage of eligible voters make it to the polls election

day, I'm guessing.

[Art_from_Ark]

138. It reminds me of the rationale the UFCW gave for endorsing Hillary

She's fighting against the TPP! (Even though she's not even going to lobby against it )

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251769376

[brooklynite]

5. Maybe SEIU's goal was actually get a Union supporter elected? Not just "send a message"?

If the Republicans win, the conditions for Unions will be far worse.

[Kentonio]

6. Considering Sanders polls better against the Republicans

How exactly would endorsing him have hurt their cause?

[brooklynite]

10. So, "corporate" polls should be trusted when they support your candidate?

Hillary Clinton is ahead or close in matches in most critical states, with everything the Republicans (and some leftists) have thrown at her. Bernie's numbers will come down if he wins the nomination and becomes the focus of their campaign. Add to which, Clinton will have the political resources and the MONEY (that ugly word) to be competitive with whomever the Republicans put up.

[Ed Suspicious]

20. Nice try.

[SunSeeker]

40. Reality has Hillary bias. nt

[That Guy 888]

53. Tell that to the Iraqis.

[SunSeeker]

57. Amazing the number of folks here who want to blame Iraq on Hillary rather than George Bush.

Reminds me of how the GOP is trying to blame Obama for ISIS.

[That Guy 888]

60. As you know, she voted to give chimpie a loaded gun

I don't remember too many people thinking that he wouldn't use it.

[SunSeeker]

65. She voted to give war authorization under certain conditions.

None of which Bush complied with. His administration we later learned outright fabricated evidence. Hillary did not fabricate evidence to send us to war. Chimpie did.

[That Guy 888]

71. ROFL "certain conditions" bush said he wanted to be a wartime president.

Last edited Thu Nov 19, 2015, 12:13 PM - Edit history (1)

His administration we later learned outright fabricated evidence.

We didn't learn later, anyone who wasn't willfully blind knew they were lying! Why do you think the protests in NYC were so massive? To bad those protesters weren't part of Wall Street, maybe Hillery would have worked with them then.

[bvar22]

134. We've all heard THAT excuse.

Fortunately, the MAJORITY of Democrats knew exactly what Bush was doing,
gave impassioned speeches to "not give Bush a Blank Check for WAR", and urged Democratic Party Solidarity.

This is another occasion where Hillary voted AGAINST the majority of Democrats,
and joined with the REPUBLICANS to help get the WAR on.

Of course, we ALL remember during the run up to the Iraq Invasion how outraged Hillary was that Bush had exceeded his authority.
YEP.
After it was obvious Bush was going to WAR:

*She authored legislation to STOP him.

*She was all over the Talk Shows expressing her righteous outrage that Bush was starting the WAR without permission,

*She bought full page editorials speaking up against an illegal war,

*She publicly called for DoJ Investigation,

*She joined with the thousands of protesters marching against the run up to WAR.

Yes, she was righteously pissed that Bush had used her.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh wait. That NEVER happened,
probably because she was still cheer leading for the INVASION.


The excuse you champion holds no water in the real World where people have memories and ask questions.
Might as well let that one go,
because it is really embarrassing for her WAR enablers to sport a boat full of holes.
Think about it.

[SunSeeker]

139. Hillary voted the way her constituents wanted her to vote.

In May 2003, a Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and USA Today concluded that 79% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons; only 19% thought weapons were needed to justify the war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_opinion_in_the_United_States_on_the_invasion_of_Iraq

She also voted with "the MAJORITY of Democrats" in the Senate. 58% of Democratic senators (29 of 50) voted for the resolution. Those voting for the resolution were:
Bayh, Evan (D-IN)
Baucus, Max (D-MT)
Biden, Joseph (D-DE)
Breaux, John (D-LA)
Cantwell, Maria (D-WA)
Carnahan, Jean (D-MO)
Carper, Thomas (D-DE)
Cleland, Max (D-GA)
Clinton, Hillary (D-NY)
Daschle, Tom (D-SD)
Dodd, Chris (D-CT)
Dorgan, Byron (D-ND)
Edwards, John (D-NC)
Feinstein, Dianne (D-CA)
Harkin, Tom (D-IA)
Hollings, Ernest (D-SC)
Johnson, Tim (D-SD)
Kerry, John (D-MA)
Kohl, Herb (D-WI)
Landrieu, Mary (D-LA)
Lieberman, Joseph (D-CT)
Lincoln, Blanche (D-AR)
Miller, Zell (D-GA)
Nelson, Ben (D-NE)
Nelson, Bill (D-FL)
Reid, Harry (D-NV)
Rockefeller, Jay (D-WV)
Schumer, Chuck (D-NY)
Torricelli, Robert (D-NJ)

Of course later, when news of the Bush Administration's fraudulent evidence, and the horrific cost of the war, became clear, public opinion reversed, as did Hillary's assessment of the propriety of her vote.

Bernie claims to have followed his constituents wishes as well, when it came to his vote for gun manufacturer immunity and his 5 votes against the Brady Bill. But unlike Hillary, he won't admit he was wrong.

[bvar22]

143. You seem proud of the admission that you try to follow a Weather Vane.

Are you familiar with the word "Leadership" and what that means?

Do you understand the concept of a "Moral Compass"?

[SunSeeker]

144. I did not make that "admission." Hillary is showing leadership.

Every candidate has votes they regret in retrospect. What shows a "moral compass" is admitting mistakes and correcting course. Bernie appears incapable of that.

[Cosmic Kitten]

108. Hillary is an enabler.

[Kentonio]

47. So basically, you're going to ignore it and pretend it doesn't matter because... made up stuff?

[cascadiance]

15. Most GOOD unions support candidates that reject so-called "guest labor" programs...

This one apparently has been bought to ignore Hillary Clinton's strong support for "guest labor" programs like H-1B that let the wealthy take advantage of the indentured servants put in our labor force instead of real Americans or encouraging real immigration or at least green card VISAs that allow labor in this country to compete on an even playing field.

Apparently they have forgotten who they represent versus who gives them money and power within the government to reward themselves more than those they are supposed to serve.

[KingCharlemagne]

24. Why are they backing Adlai Stevenson, v 2.0?? Don't they remember what

Happened to version 1.0??

[NCTraveler]

27. It's become clear they simply don't get it. nt.

[AllyCat]

31. Then they should have waited to endorse in the GE like

We always have done in the past. Membership I know is not on board with this. Many are so angry we have endorsed the least labor-friendly Dem, they are stopping their COPE payments and sending the money to more labor-friendly candidates.

[merrily]

9. Solidarity.

[HereSince1628]

12. Yes, true, but the union execs fight for their members using LOBBYISTS

Consequently the word 'confounded' in its true meaning comes to mind when considering how the internal union thinking behind this and other endorsements by union administrations came to be.

When unions decided that negotiation and arbitration was the solution rather than strikes, the work of the unions shifted from sidewalks to offices, and from strikers to union reps and lawyers.

Once elected, and with union dues smoothly flowing in, the union administrators function mostly as facilitators of their lobbyists. Consequently, the opposite ends of the union often seem to be working at cross-purpose.

[merrily]

90. And Bill Clinton has stated that lobbyists are very useful!

[HereSince1628]

131. I was represented by unions twice in my life, both times in a minority group...

Once as an epidemiologist, ending up represented in a union for state healthworkers dominated by nurses, and once as a faculty member working under a contract that had a track for old workers and a track for new workers... the union was protecting the good old gang at the costs of the new people. It was pretty brutal and not at all friendly.

I see unions as important and necessary, but they don't work for everyone and really don't always have built in protections against tyranny of the majority.

At least I wasn't an American worker represented by a foreign national.

[merrily]

132. Union members are better than union leadership and unions are better than no unions, always,

but especially in an economy like ours is now. Production overseas means few US jobs. Fewer US jobs means less than no bargaining power for individual workers.

[femmedem]

14. I would think they sucked the air out of the Fight for $15.

I hope I'm wrong.

[merrily]

39. I hope you're wrong, too. What union would give up $3 an hour on behalf of its members--and that's

assuming that Hillary would fight for $12 an hour as hard as Bernie will fight for $15 an hour.

[misterhighwasted]

16. Lol

A little morning humor
Tks

[merrily]

18. This thread will receive many recommendations.

[MannyGoldstein]

30. Ahhh...

[merrily]

37. Thanks for the pic.

Exactly as I've imagined you!

[gregcrawford]

68. ZIPPY LIVES!

[merrily]

85. Freaks!

Zippy made his first appearance in Real Pulp Comix #1 in March 1971. The strip began in The Berkeley Barb in 1976 and was syndicated nationally soon after, originally as a weekly strip. In a 2008 interview with Alex Dueben, Griffith recalled how it all began:

I first saw the 1932 Tod Browning film Freaks in 1963 at a screening at Pratt Institute in Brooklyn, where I was attending art school. I was fascinated by the pinheads in the introductory scene and asked the projectionist (who I knew) if he could slow down the film so I could hear what they were saying better. He did and I loved the poetic, random dialog. Little did I know that Zippy was being planted in my fevered brain. Later, in San Francisco in 1970, I was asked to contribute a few pages to Real Pulp Comics #1, edited by cartoonist Roger Brand. His only guideline was to say "Maybe do some kind of love story, but with really weird people." I never imagined I'd still be putting words into Zippy's fast-moving mouth some 38 years later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freaks

Lots of interesting things, when talkies were young.

[gregcrawford]

94. Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!

I loves me some obscure history!

[merrily]

95. .

[MannyGoldstein]

135. Oh.

[merrily]

136. Duh. Obviously.

[Ed Suspicious]

22. K&R

[Scuba]

23. K&R

[SidDithers]

25. "After a rigorous, months-long member engagement process"...

WASHINGTON — After a rigorous, months-long member engagement process, the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) today endorsed Hillary Clinton for president, calling her a leader who will stand up for the working people building a movement to secure a better future for their families.

“Hillary Clinton has proven she will fight, deliver and win for working families,” said SEIU International President Mary Kay Henry. “SEIU members and working families across America are part of a growing movement to build a better future for their families, and Hillary Clinton will support and stand with them. This movement for economic, racial, immigrant and social justice is poised to turn out to vote in November with their families and communities and keep pushing elected officials to deliver once in office.”

“We are endorsing Hillary Clinton because she will stand up for working people like me when she’s in the White House, not the rich and powerful,” said Regina Sutton, a home care worker and member of SEIU Local 2015 in California.

SEIU’s member engagement included a 1,200-member conference in March, three national tele-town hall meetings in which more than 178,000 members participated, three national member polls from the fall of 2014 through the fall of 2015, more than 200 local executive board debates and discussions with thousands of local union officers and elected member leaders and local union member discussions representing 1.2 million SEIU members, which included leadership assemblies, live phone calls, worksite meetings, emails and text messages.

Hillary Clinton will fight to raise wages and has stood up for the rights of workers to join together in a union. She has spoken out in support of the Fight for $15 movement: on the movement’s April 15 national day of action, during the New York wage board fight that resulted in $15 for all fast food workers in the state, for the $15 victories in Los Angeles city and county and again just last week, on Nov. 10, during the biggest day of action yet.

“As cleaners, we roll up our sleeves every day and get the job done without complaint. When Hillary Clinton is president, she will do the same. She will fight tirelessly for working families. I like that she is not running to prove a point, she is running to make our country better,” said Pam Johnston, a cleaner, member of 32BJ SEIU in Pittsburgh and executive board member.

Once elected, Hillary Clinton will have the opportunity to address the epidemic of low wages and poor training standards for our nation’s airport workers, who keep travelers safe and airports clean. “Airport jobs should be good jobs — and together, we can make sure they are,” she wrote to airport workers gathered at a national convention last month in Washington.

Clinton has recognized the value of care work in our nation, particularly the home care providers and child care teachers who help educate our future generations and allow our seniors and those with disabilities to live with dignity at home. In many places, these workers earn poverty wages with no sick or vacation time and few if any benefits. “One of the things I'm trying to do in this campaign is put raising wages at the center,” Clinton said at an August roundtable meeting in Los Angeles with SEIU home care providers. “I think your skills deserve a lot more pay and benefits than what's currently being made available to you.”

“Hillary Clinton understands that child care teachers need living wages and that the care has to be affordable for people,” said Marites McLean, a child care provider and member of SEIU Local 509 in Massachusetts. “She gets it and she’s going to do something about it.”

Clinton is also a leader on the core issues SEIU members care about in this election, including fighting for commonsense immigration reform that includes a path to citizenship, standing up for voting rights and criminal justice reform that prioritizes ending mass incarceration and supporting and strengthening the Affordable Care Act (ACA). Clinton’s commitment to quality, affordable healthcare goes back decades to her courageous efforts in 1994 to ensure coverage for all. SEIU members know she will fight hard to strengthen the ACA so we never go backward.

http://www.seiu.org/2015/11/seiu-endorses-hillary-clinton-for-president

Sounds like they followed the wishes of their membership.



Sid

[AllyCat]

33. In MARCH! I was asked in MARCH. Most

Americans didn't even know there was s choice to the then-undeclared HRC. Most I know who took the poll supported Sanders or Warren (if running). All I knew taking the poll sai "don't early-endorse".

[merrily]

41. That explains A LOT!

[SunSeeker]

45. "... three national member polls from the fall of 2014 through the fall of 2015..." nt

[aspirant]

48. Produce the polls

[SunSeeker]

52. I am not a member of SEIU. But I am a union member and I support Hillary.

[aspirant]

56. Simple, you are citing 3 national polls, produce them

[SunSeeker]

58. SEIU cited three polls in their statement.

For some reason you read that as one poll. I was simply correcting your misstatements. I do not have access to SEIU polling data. But I tend to believe unions. I'm funny that way.

[aspirant]

62. Produce the polls so we can correct all potential "misstatements"

[Sheepshank]

86. what an odd thing to demand from someone who has told you they don't have access to those polls.

do you actually think that you just won the arguement with that tactic? I wonder if you realize it only makes your attempts look desperate for any sort of a preceived/imagined smack down.

Sunseeker was merely reproducing a statement from the article. Perhpas you should be demanding the polling data from the Union and posting the results here, because clearly you think there is some damning or nepharious processes involved in the process they employed to gather majority information.

[aspirant]

98. Citing numbers w/o transparency is real desperation

[Sheepshank]

100. what does that have to do with your attempt at labelling a DU'er?...ask the pollsters. nt

[aspirant]

115. Prove the internal numbers

[Sheepshank]

116. for the 3rd time...ask the Union for the numbers

you are having a very difficult time understanding the concept.

not sure if I should feel sorry for you or laugh at your weak attempt at circular thinking.

[aspirant]

119. I'm not citing the numbers

Produce the polls or admit it is unscientific

How many union members responded multiple times?

[ieoeja]

75. "...from the fall of 2014 through the fall of 2015..."

Since the first polls were over a year ago, they probably did not even include Sanders.

[SunSeeker]

106. The one(s) done in the "fall of 2015" would have included Sanders. nt

[merrily]

111. So, one out three at most.

[SunSeeker]

112. No, one out of three at least. nt

[merrily]

113. At most. Bernie only started getting known around July, IF THEN.

Last edited Thu Nov 19, 2015, 04:56 PM - Edit history (1)

His announcement was near the end of June. One poll in the fall of 2014, when only Hillary was on the horizon, one poll in March, same. Gee, no fix indicated therer. And then the third poll in the fall of 2015.

One out of three, at most.

And that's even assuming the union's claims are correct.

[SunSeeker]

125. The March vote was in addition to the three polls SEIU was talking about.

In order to make their decision, SEIU held a 1,200-member conference in March and conducted three national member polls from fall 2014 to fall 2015.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/17/politics/hillary-clinton-seiu-endorsement-2016/

[merrily]

126. Still: end of June. Why take a poll before anyone, including Hillary, announced?

Because everyone knew her and everyone knew she was going to run.

[SunSeeker]

130. To get a feel for who their members supported and their priorities.

In March, about a thousand SEIU members attended a conference in St. Louis to establish an “issue agenda” outlining the union’s political priorities. These included raising wages, ensuring the right to form a union, modernizing the education and health care systems, reforming immigration, and eliminating structural racism. Following the conference, locals engaged with their members on the endorsement process while the SEIU International conducted tele-townhall meetings and member polls. According to the SEIU source, these polls consistently showed Clinton obtaining more than 72 percent of union members’ support . . .
SEIU’s endorsement may reflect the preference on the part of minority voters for Clinton over Sanders. Clinton has consistently polled better among African-Americans and Latinos. More than 40 percent of SEIU members are people of color, the union said.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/seiu-endorses-hillary-clinton-215980

[merrily]

133. LOL!

[KingCharlemagne]

26. Comprador leadership. They should be pulling

Sanders to the left. Instead, they are selling out the rank and file, thereby demonstrating their complete irrelevance and obsolescence

[Amimnoch]

32. Yeah! They should have gone against the wishes of the VAST majority of their members.

[KingCharlemagne]

35. Where's the poll??? I'm from Missouri - you've

got to show me.

[merrily]

42. Who were polled in MARCH, when Hillary seemed likely to run unopposed.

The shit going down around this election from so many directions is so corrupt, it's unreal.

[SunSeeker]

46. "... three national member polls from the fall of 2014 through the fall of 2015..." nt

[merrily]

49. A union member on this thread says otherwise. Replies 33 and 34.

[SunSeeker]

61. One anonymous poster says s/he was polled in March.

That does not mean other SEIU members were not polled this fall.

[merrily]

64. I take the member's word over the union's story. The member has no reason to dissemble.

[SunSeeker]

67. That poster cannot know if other union members were polled in the fall of 2015. nt

[merrily]

73. Sure that member can. You cannot.

[SunSeeker]

74. How can s/he know unless s/he did the polling?

[merrily]

81. Think hard.

[SunSeeker]

103. I suggest you do the same. nt

[merrily]

107. LOL!

[aspirant]

51. Produce the polls.

[dsc]

28. 75 % of the union favored her

last I checked that is how democracy is supposed to work.

[Amimnoch]

29. Quit trying to bring logic to an emotional argument.

[AllyCat]

34. We were polled before HRC even declared.

[aspirant]

36. Produce the internal poll

[dsc]

38. so now the union is lying

wow are you at the correct website.

[aspirant]

43. "Trust us" is an unscientific calculation

Produce the poll or accept all unscientific surveys as facts

[Cali_Democrat]

55. "wow you are at the correct website"

It's kinda sad what happened to this place.

The kind of truthing going on is something I would have never imagined a few years ago.

[Maedhros]

120. There IS an established pattern of union leaders defying the wishes of the rank and file

and supporting Hillary over the orders-of-magnitude-more-labor-friendly Sanders.

[merrily]

44. See Replies 33 and 34 and then tell us again how democracy is supposed to work,

[SunSeeker]

50. Amazing the lack of reading comprehension here.

The union's statement says "... three national member polls from the fall of 2014 through the fall of 2015..." But so many here read that as "one poll in March." Curious thing.

[DhhD]

63. Let's start with number One. Post a copy.

[SunSeeker]

69. I am not a member of SEIU. But I am a union member and I support Hillary.

I tend to believe unions unless someone proves otherwise. So far, no one has.

[merrily]

83. So, you're saying we should believe unions over you. ok

[SunSeeker]

84. Nope, not saying that. Just pointing out union members do support Hillary.

[Autumn]

99. And many union members don't support Hillary.

[SunSeeker]

102. Not as many as support Hillary.

[Autumn]

104. I can say the same thing but it's rather childish to do so since many Union members support Bernie.

[DhhD]

76. Deception over $12/hour? HRC appeared to lend support of $15/hour.

https://talkingunion.wordpress.com/2015/09/02/sanders-supporters-in-seiu-urge-union-not-to-endorse-clinton/
snip
This time around, Clinton has been actively courting the union, hoping for its full backing. Last June, she called in to a conference of fast-food workers in Chicago, and appeared to lend some support to their push for a $15 minimum wage without officially endorsing the campaign. “We have to stand firmly together and united on behalf of your right to organize, your right to bargain collectively, your right to fighting together for the higher wages that reflect the value of your work,” she said on the conference call. “For me, this is as important as anything else that I’m going to talk about in my campaign for president.”
more at link


Now do these union members trust HRC? I would like to hear from them. Maybe the administration will NOT put out a poll. I am thinking that they, three times, refused the workers, a poll.

Now for me; I trust HRC a little less. I am adding this to my subtraction list. I believe that Republicans are making a list and will be checking it twice, next summer getting ready for the debates, if she is the nominee.

[merrily]

109. She tried to have it both ways? Say it ain't so, Joe.

[Matariki]

117. Yeah, funny how actual members of SEIU say they weren't polled

but keep embarrassing yourselves with that mythical "75%"

[dsc]

122. you do know how polls work, right?

A sample of say 1000 is polled out of the entire population. So 3 polls mean 3000 out of the entire population got polled. That would be less than half of a percent easily.

[Matariki]

123. I know how dissembling works

Post a link to that 'poll' or it never happened.

I mean how hard is it if people are able to cite a specific number? Unless they pulled it from their asses it must exist in some form that can be linked to.

[fasttense]

66. And the Traffic Controller's Union supported Ronnie Raygun

They even had it writing that the guy, when he became president, would NOT break up their Union. And how did that work out for them? Unions are really bad at picking political allies. Just like most people are.

[DhhD]

78. Wonder if they were denied three polls too?

[fasttense]

82. Who knows but Raygun crushed them. Fired them all and banned them for life from ever working

as traffic controllers.

I don't trust Unions to pick political allies.

[DhhD]

87. So Union leaders trusted Saint Ronnie? no test yet

[NuclearDem]

77. Rarely has an OP looked like it really should contain the words "kulaks" and "counterrevolutionaries

and yet not have them.

[DhhD]

79. Now who is countering, We the People Plans? I can rule Bernie out.

[frazzled]

88. Yes, it feels like a glimpse of life under the Sanders politburo

Hew to the party line, comrades, or your photographs will be erased from the historical record and you may end up in Siberia.

(Disclosure: I've been reading the brilliant piece of fiction The Tsar of Love and Techno, by Anthony Marra, so these images...quite humorous and quite horrific...are fresh in my mind. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/books/review-anthony-marras-the-tsar-of-love-and-techno-stories-of-russia.html )

[DhhD]

91. Socialism is not communism. Communism is a Red Army controlling the government.

Democratic Socialism is Congress controls the government.

Socialism was used by the 1%er FDR to balance the Robber Barons imposed inequality that had ruined the economy of the late 1800s and early 1900s. Sanders and most economist believe that another adjustment needs to be made in the overreach of Capitalism. If this does not happen then History teaches us that American will not survive but go by the way of other 200 year empires. The Gold/Center of Capitalism has already moved out of the US. This information is everywhere on the Web.

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrBT_xQB05WgFQAdJSl87UF;_ylc=X1MDOTU4MTA0NjkEX3IDMgRmcgMEZ3ByaWQDTjVmelNlSTZRNzJTZThFRFVqcGtGQQRuX3JzbHQDMARuX3N1Z2cDMARvcmlnaW4Dc2VhcmNoLnlhaG9vLmNvbQRwb3MDMARwcXN0cgMEcHFzdHJsAwRxc3RybAM0MgRxdWVyeQNDZW50ZXIgb2YgQ2FwaXRhbGlzbSBub3QgaW4gVVMgYW55IGxvbmdlci4EdF9zdG1wAzE0NDc5NTQyNzU-?p=Center+of+Capitalism+not+in+US+any+longer.&fr=sfp&fr2=sb-top-search&iscqry=

[frazzled]

110. I was talking about the OP

Commissar Manny, and his distinctive historical threats. No need for a re-education program from you, comrade.

[NCTraveler]

92. More anit-union shit on du. Nothing more than that here.

It's happening daily. Really sucks.

This is the definition of third way spin. Act like you support something, all while trashing it, then follow it up like you really do support it. Transparency. The polls and direction of the election are forcing some to show their real side.

[DhhD]

93. It is very transparent to me. This union leaders offered no polling and did not support the

worker's $15/hour demonstrations but instead accepted the $12/hour figure of HRC. Stuff happens to Unions in America. What just happened is being brought to DU by DUers.

Here is what DU has learned:
Workers demonstrate for $15/hour.
Union leaders ignore the Union Members and did not provide the 3 polls over last several years.
The Union leadership endorses a third way of highest increase that the 1% would allow HRC to offer, IMO.
The Union leadership decided to go with the $12/hour instead of the Bernie Plan of $15/hour.

Thank you DU for informing DU about the facts of the matter. DU supports the Unions.

[Cosmic Kitten]

105. You sum up the Clinton legacy perfectly!

Act like you support something,
all while trashing it,
then follow it up like you really do support it.


That is the Clinton legacy.

[Bluenorthwest]

146. Are you a Union member? I am, have been long enough to remember the Teamsters endorsing

Ronald Reagan. I'm not a Teamster, the Teamsters I knew did not vote for Reagan but the Union sure made a rotten choice that year.

Do you think people should have voted for Reagan 'cause the Teamsters Union told them to? Was it 'anti Union' to disagree with what a Union's leadership endorsed? No, it was in fact Pro Union to oppose that endorsement, ask the Air Traffic Controllers.

[Starry Messenger]

96. Traitors are those who voted for union-busting Reagan.

Anyone who did that has no room to criticize what steps unions must take now to preserve their future.

[Bobbie Jo]

114. Thank you

I was just getting ready to post the same, you nailed it first.

[Starry Messenger]

118. I don't usually reply to these fanfic OPs

But the layers of hypocrisy were too chewy to not take a nibble.

I knew people here would throw unions under the bus as soon as these endorsements didn't go their way. And even producing the polls doesn't change their vile accusations, they then just want to unskew the poll.

But Mary Kay Henry, the President of SEIU, doesn't deserve to be called a class traitor by the likes of a former Reagan supporter.

[Bluenorthwest]

147. Teamsters Union endorsed the Union busting Reagan, which is why this Union member takes

endorsements with a huge grain of salt. The endorsements are at times acts of betrayal one could argue once we have Reagan on the table.

[sabrina 1]

101. They can't force the membership to vote for someone they don't want!

[Tarc]

124. Their job is to poll the workers and endorse accordingly

That some splinter groups are opposed to democracy when it does not go their way is their own decision to make, but the union overall is in favor of Hillary Clinton.

[Hoyt]

127. I think I read 75% of membership supported her. Most of other 25% will too within a few years.

$12/hour in Podunk USA, with increased minimum in higher cost areas, pegged to inflation is doable.

Sanders waving his arms, won't get us there -- although I hope he keeps pushing his ideas and maybe finds a position such as Secretary of USA Transition to Scandinavian Equality.

[WillyT]

128. K & R !!!

[zappaman]

137. "Traitors"

[rhett o rick]

141. So why would union leadership sell out to the big money oligarchy? They want a cut of the

corruption.

[UglyGreed]

145. K/R