2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhat are you willing to concede?
A certain candidate is moving more to center-right talking points, becoming more hawkish, talking about tax cuts are the way to help the economy. If a teapublican was talking like this, during an election cycle, people on this site would be trashing and making fun of them. Because there is a "D" after their name, they say they agree and even like it. The concept of tax cuts as a path to economic success is a PROVEN FAILED POLICY. It has been talked about, in great detail here, often. Giving people a couple of hundred dollars extra a year is NOT going to right a level of income inequality in which 53% of the total value of all wages earned in America is owned by .08% (point zero eight percent) of Americans. That 51% of Americans earn less that $30,000 a year.
Second, you know as well as I do that targeted tax cuts for poor (who pay little to no taxes already) and middle class is a non-starter in Congress without serious concessions on our social safety net items. That is not a "compromise" that is being "compromised".
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onehandle
(51,122 posts)
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)I can see how easily the post confused you but this wasn't about Obama.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Her proposed tax has a much better chance to get through Congress than the tax increased proposed by Sanders grading r the proposed transaction tax on trades.
angrychair
(12,367 posts)What part of this is untrue?
"Giving people a couple of hundred dollars extra a year is NOT going to right a level of income inequality in which 53% of the total value of all wages earned in America is owned by .08% (point zero eight percent) of Americans. That 51% of Americans earn less that $30,000 a year.
These are hard numbers from a SSA report issued a couple of weeks ago.
Second, you know as well as I do that targeted tax cuts for poor (who pay little to no taxes already) and middle class is a non-starter in Congress without serious concessions on our social safety net items.
What are you willing to give up for a couple of extra hundred dollars a year? Cuts in Medicare? SSD cuts? Cuts in weekly food stamps? Drug testing for welfare recipients?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Will be a credit similar to a deduction for dependents which will put money in the pockets of those getting a refund.
Response to angrychair (Reply #4)
Pharaoh This message was self-deleted by its author.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)
daleanime
(17,796 posts)you know you feel better about it. Being honest with yourself is always the hardest part, but I'm rooting for you. Have a lovely evening.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Problem for me. I have confidence in my decisions.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)you always leave out the important stuff. But we like you anyways.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Because it would be sad to think that you would support the status quo because someone has fooled you into thinking you have a chance of becoming part of the 1% someday.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Are you unhappy because there are those who are 1%.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)You were expressing your confidence in the decisions you make- the post was about you.
I merely expressed that it would be unfortunate if you have been fooled into believing that one day you can achieve the 1%'s status. As George Carling said- "it's a big cub and you ain't in it."
There was no indication in regards to how I feel about the 1% in my post nor is there in this one.
Hell, for all you know I could be part of the 1%
Nah, who we kidding? If I were part of the 1% I certainly wouldn't be here telling the little people that they'll never be one of us. I'd let them continue to think it.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)"
Because it would be sad to think that you would support the status quo because someone has fooled you into thinking you have a chance of becoming part of the 1% someday.
Being in or not in the 1% is something I am not jealous, I am happy for those who have been successful, I don't care how many car elevators one has, good for them.
As you say, "Let's not make it about me."
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Read it again. I did not log on here an toot your horn in regards to your proficiency in decision making. That was all you pal.
Enjoy the rest of your morning.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Because that was always my favorite flavor as a kid.
CentralMass
(16,993 posts)Proposed more and lobbied democrats in congress not to let the Bush tax cuts sunset. While bailing out crooked morally bankrupt financial institutions an doling out billions in corporate welfare.
Bernie Sanders has this right. The economy and the health of the middle class and way of life will never recover without a major shift in our tax policies and wages, and trade policies.
If our presumptive front runner is calling for more tax cuts as the solution we are screwed.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Our nation. Her goal is to get elected. If it polls well, she's for it. Her supporters are blind.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Oh the horror, an elected candidate doing what the people want. Do you have a clue what polls are? It's a measure of what people want.
I guess you and I have completely different ideas on what makes a good candidate. I like the ones that listen to what the people want and try to work with it. Especially one like Hillary who listens, and strives to keep a progressive agenda moving forward.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Then why would you feel any particular need to follow through after the poll is no longer relevant because you've been elected?
demwing
(16,916 posts)Polls are a snapshot of what people want at a specific place and time.
20 years ago, Gay marriage was polling at 27% in favor, 68% against. Now, the numbers are essentially flipped:
Riddle me this - what do these polls (even the favorable ones) have to do with leadership and humans rights?
Democracy tells us what's accepted by the majority, but the Constitution protects minorities from the oppression of majorities.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)The getting us back into the Neverending Mideast Meatgrinder War by putting American troops back in? Or the call to give the Police State Surveillance Assholes a way to invade my privacy for no good fucking reason?
Hillary Clinton is to progressivism, what Bristol Palin is to chastity.
demwing
(16,916 posts)
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I'm not willing to vote for Clinton.
Her primary defeat is a condition of the Democrats receiving my Presidential vote. If Hillary's the nominee, I'm writing in Sanders or voting for the Green candidate which hopefully will be Jill Stein again. Under no condition will I vote for Clinton however.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Of who wins in 2016. That's just the way it goes. That's politics. That's the two-party system. We'll win some, we'll lose some. Life will go on.
angrychair
(12,367 posts)What are you willing to give up for a couple of extra hundred dollars a year? Cuts in Medicare? SSD cuts? Food stamp cuts? Drug testing for welfare recipients? When you're starting from a position of $12 an hour, not $15, it is not a compromise, it is a concession.
jalan48
(14,914 posts)the Democratic Party assumes the vacated position the Republicans previously held. The oligarchs cry, "Mission Accomplished!"
zentrum
(9,870 posts)
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And that my friend is how triangulation works.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)Yeeee Haaaawww!!!!!!!
BainsBane
(57,771 posts)that the last place I'm going to go for information about "a certain" candidate is posts without attribution from people who have made it clear their singular concern is to keep her from becoming president.
She gave a foreign policy speech. That's not moving right. Your "progressive" candidate supports the same coalition-based military intervention in Syria. He also supports continued use of drone strikes and nearly a trillion dollars to Lockheed-Martin, yet somehow none of that is "to the right."
As for what's a non-starter with congress, try the entirety of Bernie's platform. It's hysterical to see this sudden concern for what can get through congress. Funny how that isn't a concern with "free education" or single payer, where people pretend all we need is a president to say the magic words and it will all materialize.
Tax cuts for the poor are demand side economics, not trickle down. The poor are already down. Nothing is trickling to them. Payroll tax cuts and other relief for the poor is meant to give them more income, which they then spend. It has not been proven a failure. That you conflate tax cuts for the wealthy with those targeting the poor takes absurdity to new levels. I know it sucks that Clinton isn't doing everything in her power to promote the upper-middle class and that her policies focus on government expenditures toward those who need it the most, but that isn't by any stretch of the imagination right-wing. Concern for the upper-middle class and hostility toward the poor, however, is right-wing.
As for elections, candidates run to the base (either left or right) during the primaries are toward the middle during the general election. It has always been that way. It isn't a new, diabolical invention by the girl.
What I will absolutely not concede is that people here get to decide what is left and right. I see a lot of right wing crap promoted as "progressive," and the justification always seems to be "me." Immigration restriction is left-wing if it's my job, right wing if it's someone else's. Discussing inequality is leftist if it's about "me," but divisive if it's about other people's experiences. Anything that promotes "me" is left. No, it's not. And that's particularly true if the "me" in question benefits from an income in excess of the national household median. Just because a position was considered left in 1960 doesn't mean it is today.
NanceGreggs
(27,835 posts)
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)I know that I have a wishlist and won't get everything on it right away, and I'd be willing to accept a lower minimum wage than $15 if it meant single payer. But there are just way to many variables at play to even speculate really. Plus before we say what we'd be willing to give up, we should wait and see how the next congress looks, since that would strengthen our hand. The main thing is to stay cautiously optimistic and fight like hell to win down ticket to help keep the momentum going. We can have it all if we don't let apathy and backbiters get their claws into us.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Okay, you want to "compromise." Well, what exactly are you willing to compromise? What are you willing to cut, to give up, to set aside or otherwise abandon? 'cause the people you're talking compromise with? They want it all gone. civil rights. Equality. Reproductive rights. Peace. The environment. Working wages, absolutely everything, they want it gone.
You compromise with that, and you're going to be losing what you don't want to lose. so to all of you moderates, who want to talk "compromise"? Who are you willing to sell out for the illusion of "getting things done"?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)
ibegurpard
(17,081 posts)No more.
No more privatization of public goods and services. No more policy and legislation written by and for industry the general public be damned.
Obama betrayed the faith put in him. No more.
RandySF
(85,158 posts)It's been Bernie supporters that I've seen here on DU urge the party to concede a number of social issues to the Republicans in order to attract white voters who might be receptive to Sanders' economic message.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Voting rights, women rights, civil rights and LGBT rights. Let me emphasize this didn't come from Bernie, but some of his supporters here on DU.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)
okasha
(11,573 posts)I think that is the latest date for Bernie to drop out. He doesn't have the funds to go much beyond NH, still less the growing number of states where the polls are running 2:1 or 3:1 in Hillary's favor. There isn't a large enough pool of undecideds to make the difference, and Malloy's minuscule slice of the pie will probably split in both directions.