Hillary doesn’t want to save families $5000/year through single payer plan to guarantee health care

[Cheese Sandwich]

Bernie disappointed...



https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/668109628052389888

[AgingAmerican]

1. Well, she protected them from 9/11

And now she is protecting corporate profits from 'the little people'.

[arcane1]

2. If she doesn't speak up for the insurance industry, who will?

Poor things

[Cheese Sandwich]

12. LOL I know right they just can't catch a break

[Duckhunter935]

53. I am sure she will say "cut it out"

[hill2016]

3. quick

somebody tweet back and asked how much did vermont's single payer system save each family?

[JonLeibowitz]

8. Because Sanders held statewide elected office in Vermont at some point in his career?

[hill2016]

10. Bernie

had no influence in his whole state? No bully pulpit?

no means of advocacy?

you'd think no one had heard of his name in Vermont!

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2014/december/vermont-advocates-continue-push-for-single-payer-health

look at the list of groups who advocated for single payer. Did they hold "statewide elected office" in Vermont?

- American Federation of Teachers
- Vermont’s chapter of the National Education Association
- Workers Center
- Vermont Federation of Nurses and Health Professionals
- Vermont Businesses for Social Responsibility

[Armstead]

22. Yeah its such a terrible idea...Private insurancer is much better for everyone

People just love getting gouged

[JonLeibowitz]

25. Some in this thread clearly never took a civics class, where they learn who represents whom & where

[hill2016]

32. fancy that

nurses and health card professionals in Vermont are so ignorant of civics that they didn't realize because they are not in the state government they are suuposed to keep their mouths shut and not advocate on public health care policy

[JonLeibowitz]

33. I'm talking about Bernie's responsibility at the national level; not to work on state level policy.

Of course, you knew I wasn't saying that nurses and health card professionals should not advocate.

By the way, the national nurses union is pushing for single payer. Let's back them up and vote for single payer!

[hill2016]

35. as a resident of Vermont

didn't Sanders feel any obligation to speak out on this issue?

[JonLeibowitz]

37. Evidently when doing the political calculus he decided it wouldn't help.

Or possibly he realizes it wouldn't look good in view of the 10th amendment (states rights).

I really don't know.

[Hoyt]

4. Single payer wouldn't save that much any time soon. Maybe way down the road

when we've cut things to the bone, denied care unless necessary, etc. But, that's not a bad long-term outcome. Sanders just ought to be upfront with folks about how long it will take, assuming he could get it done.

[99Forever]

14. Are you an actuary?

Please present your credentials. Then we'll discuss your predictions.

[Hoyt]

16. Are you? Sanders' own state couldn't make the numbers work

to convince voters to establish a single payer system in Vermont. That ought to tell you something about the cost AND political reality.

[99Forever]

21. I'm not the one pulling predictions out of my ass.

So answer the fucking question: Are you an actuary?

[Hoyt]

24. I was the budget analyst for state Medicaid program decades ago. Is that good enough for you?

I've followed the issue and was for major reform 40 years ago. I was somewhat naive at times, not unlike many Sanders supporters.

Besides, you obviously are making predictions if you disagree with mine. Why don't you just admit it? And tell us your credentials.

[randys1]

29. The numbers are probably difficult to work in the current system where RX companies

make obscene profits, hospitals make obscene profits and many physicians make very high fees for their specialty.

The numbers will work here like everywhere else in the civilized world if we take capitalism out of healthcare, to some extent, not entirely, but it can be done.


Like everything else, the problem is our version of unbridled capitalism, greed, etc.

[Hoyt]

30. That's exactly why I think it will take single payer awhile to produce results people could see.

The insurance company's profit is only a part of the excess in the Healthcare system. And even the British system has been experiencing funding issues.

That's no reason to nothing though. The sooner we start with a new plan, the sooner we get the benefits. We just have to be honest with what it will take and cost.

Truthfully some expensive drugs save hospital and other costs, not to mention lives.

[AgingAmerican]

70. Look at Medicare if you want to see results

Look around the world. The rest of the modern world has already been there, done that. The only reason we don't have it here is because the country has gone too far to the right.

[Hoyt]

72. Medicare without the policies and controls other countries have on utilization, prices, and

quality, would be a disaster. We have a lot to do to make it work. Besides, insurance companies handle most of the admin under Medicare. Plus, 30+% of beneficiaries receive care directly through networks established by private insurers. Medicaid in most states has basically been turned over to private insurers.

Again, the sooner we start , the better.

[Recursion]

39. And they all do that under Medicare, too

If providers were cheap enough that single payer were politically feasible, we wouldn't need single payer to begin with.













At this point I think we need explicit price controls more than anything else, and that would sort out most of the problems.

[99Forever]

42. No it isn't.

Decades ago was then. This is NOW.

Try to keep up.

[Hoyt]

43. See hiw it worjed for Vermont. And stop acting like a child.

[99Forever]

45. You do undertand that state and federal governments...

... are two separate and distinct entities, right?

But go right ahead and kick the shit out of the strawman, it's perfectly Clintonian.

[Hoyt]

46. You do understand there are similarities and our Congress is not

similar to Vermont's more liberal legislature that would have done it had it been sellable to voters.

[99Forever]

47. I do understand that Senator Sander is a member of the FEDERAL government...

... not that STATE government, so if you have a fucking problem with how Vermont handles their type of STATE healthcare system, you take it up with someone who actually is part of the STATE government and can actually do something about it.

Now, kick that strawman a couple more times, 'cuz you sure as fuck ain't nuttin' else.

[Hoyt]

48. No I do not. Obviously, you forget that in 2011 Vermont enacted a single payer law, but

when it came down to it, they couldn't figure out a way to pay for it that would be acceptable to people.

If you have forgotten, go back and read about it. Pay attention, that is what I have been doing for 40 years

Here is one of many links to prod your memory:

"Vermont was supposed to be the beacon for a single-payer health care system in America. But now its plans are in ruins, and its onetime champion Gov. Peter Shumlin may have set back the cause. . . . . . ."

"Vermont under Shumlin became the most visible trailblazer. Until Wednesday, when the governor admitted what critics had said all along: He couldn’t pay for it."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/single-payer-vermont-113711#ixzz3sF0pKOKd

[99Forever]

50. ...

If it was Governor Bernie Sanders, your fucking lameass attempt to smear might hold water.

Have someone explain to you the difference between what a governor and a senator is, and which one of the two is the chief executive of a STATE government.

Run along now, and I'll see if I can find someone who isn't completely intellectually dishonest to converse with.

[Hoyt]

51. We are talking Single Payer, not Sanders.

Single Payer with our current Congress will be a bigger failure on the national scene.

Sanders can wave his arms and say it is the way to go, and it probably is if one could get it enacted, but that won't get us there. Sanders and his supporters might as well endorse a diabetes/obesity/cancer-free society, for all the good it will do.

I would love for our country to be like Denmark -- except, perhaps, for the racism aspects -- but Sanders won't/can't get us there.

[99Forever]

58. Bullshit.

[mythology]

31. Is Sanders?

I don't doubt that we could save a lot of money in healthcare/insurance, but trying to get $5000 out for everybody tomorrow would be at best foolish. I'm sure Sanders' plan is more gradual, but I also think single payer has roughly speaking 0% chance of passing.

[99Forever]

41. You think Sanders hasn't discussed this with actuaries?

Did he say TOMORROW? Make bullshit up much?

Single Payer has an absolute 0% chance of passing if the POTUS doesn't even try to get it done. Seeing how as that's Hillary Goldman Sachs Clinton's STARTING position, I'll go with the guy who will fight hard to get it done. Got any other surrenders you want to make, before going for anything at all?

[JaneyVee]

5. Neither does Vermont.

[JonLeibowitz]

9. Because Sanders held statewide elected office in Vermont at some point in his career?

[JaneyVee]

11. Did he use the bully pulpit, or even write an op-ed?

A letter to he editor? A phone call? Anything?

[Armstead]

23. Fer Krist sake he's been advocating it for years

But he can't go in and tell the state government what to do or how to handle it.

[azmom]

6. I'm dissapointed in Hillary too.

[Cheese Sandwich]

13. Me too but I'm glad people are revealing which side they are on.

[HerbChestnut]

7. I heard his campaign was working on a study that would provide some numbers on single payer

I wonder if this is part of the result of that study.

[Cheese Sandwich]

15. He said it a couple different times today

I'm looking forward to hearing more about it too.

It's great this is becoming a central issue of the campaign.

[HerbChestnut]

17. I agree. No doubt Bernie's on the right side of the issue.

And it wouldn't be like him to mention a statistic like that without data to back it up so he's clearly getting his numbers from somewhere.

[pa28]

18. What about the poor health insurance CEO's?

Here's what a few of them made last year.

Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini: $15 million

Anthem CEO Joseph Swedish: $13.5 million

Cigna CEO David Cordani: $14.5 milion

http://www.fiercehealthpayer.com/story/top-health-insurance-ceo-pay-exceeds-10-million-2014/2015-04-10

With single payer they'll be relegated to the role of intermediary and won't be able to deny claims for profit anymore.

Whose pocket is being lined by that completely gratuitous $5,000 a year in health costs? Hmmm.

[Cheese Sandwich]

20. Yep it seems like these corporate insurance bureaucrats are making out like bandits.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

19. Her republicanspeak 'he's going to tax the middle class' won't work

I used to pay an amount from my salary which covered things like healthcare in the UK - healthcare free at the point of use. Here I pay a lot for health insurance per month even with employer contribution and then it doesn't cover everything with those nasty deductibles.

[Cheese Sandwich]

26. Yep. I think it's great this is a big topic in the campaign

With help from Bernie we're pushing the issue into the national spotlight.

[guillaumeb]

27. The Canadian single payer, provincial administered system

insures all Canadians at 1/2 the cost of the US system and the Canadian system is ranked much higher by the WHO.

[ibegurpard]

28. Hillary will carry water for the insurance industry.

She's fighting for them now and will fight us on actual healthcare solutions...just like Obama did.

[moobu2]

34. Bernie Sanders couldn't get single payer enacted

He knows it too. He's just teasing his followers with it.

[Cheese Sandwich]

36. Certainly not with all these Democrats fighting against it.

[moobu2]

40. The Democrats couldn't do it either.

It just can not happen in this environment and Bernie Sanders knows it. He's been in Washington 1/4 century, he ought to.

[MaggieD]

54. He's just lying to his followers about it

And his old plan is still sitting in congress without a single co-sponsor just like it has since its inception.

[BainsBane]

38. She already tried it more than 20 years ago

Didn't work out. It's fine for Bernie to talk about what he "wants." He's not going to be in a position where he has to deliver on his promises. Clinton deals with not just what she would like in an ideal world but what can get done.

[kath]

44. No, she did not try for single payer. She had the ins companies totally at the table, "helping" to

draw up the plan, same way Obama did.

[pinebox]

49. Clinton tops 2016 field in drug industry donations

Painfully obvious WHY Hillary doesn't want single payer.
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/257234-clinton-brings-in-most-big-pharma-money-of-2016-field

[MaggieD]

52. Bernie stilling pretending single payer is free?

Wow, that's so dishonest.

[Cheese Sandwich]

59. It's dishonest when people only cite the costs of single payer, but never the savings.

Like the Wall Street Journal piece that claims single payer will cost 15 trillion or whatever. Only citing the costs, not the savings.

And that line is repeated by news outlets like MSNBC, CNN and FOX, and by DU liberals to explain why it's "too expensive" and we can't afford it, wholly dishonest.

A national insurance service like Medicare for all will save Americans beaucoup money.

[MaggieD]

60. How come Vermont didn't do it then?

[Cheese Sandwich]

61. Probably a failure of leadership. Their governor is a Hillary supporter he probably sabotaged it.

Just like Hillary is doing nation wide.

Sabotaging our movement for national health insurance by raising right wing talking points.

[MaggieD]

62. No, it's a failure of costing too much

Did you seriously not even look at why it failed in Vermont before you posted this?

21% taxes on income just for healthcare. Does that strike you has doable?

[Cheese Sandwich]

63. The system we have now costs more. We spend far more per person with worse results.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/10-ways-to-visualize-how-americans-spend-money-on-health-care/254736/

[MaggieD]

64. Yes, because we have a higher standard of living

I thought Bernie wanted us all to make a living wage? Or does he just want more of it to go to the government?

[Cheese Sandwich]

65. We have a higher standard of living than Canada? No we do not.

[MaggieD]

67. Actually we do

But don't worry about facts. Facts aren't important.

[Cheese Sandwich]

68. Depends what you mean by "we"

Maybe your class has a great standard of living. I can believe that. But others are suffering. Tell the millions of people suffering without health insurance, or paying hundreds of dollars / month on prescriptions that they have a higher standard of living.

[AgingAmerican]

69. No, we don't

We have to spend our disposable income on things like Health insurance and College. They don't. They don't lose their homes if they get too sick. They aren't hounded by bill collectors from student loan debt.

Canada has very little measurable poverty. The US poverty rate is about 14%, and the poverty rate among children in the US is higher now than it was when the economy crashed.

Tell those living in poverty how high the standard of living is, see if they agree with your talking point.

[Faux pas]

55. Kickin'

[cheapdate]

56. I would imagine that Hillary Clinton has different expectations, rather

than she doesn't agree with "saving families $5,000 a year."

[Thinkingabout]

57. It is a tax credit, not everyone is going to spend $5000 on health insurance.

[AgingAmerican]

66. That's five grand out of the pockets of predatory 'insurance' companies

IT's blasphemy!!

[Adrahil]

71. I don't want a single payer system either.

Can you imagine having a single-payer system that the Republicans have any input on?

No abortion services

Probably no contraceptive services (Religious Freedumb)

Constant benefit cuts

Yeah.... I don't want a single payer system until we can have one not under the control of the GOP wing nuts.