HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » Hillary Supporters' strat...

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:09 PM

 

Hillary Supporters' strategy becomes clear

Over these last couple of weeks the tone from some of the Hillary camp has changed. Sure, they've always been a bit condescending and superior, but lately they've employed new tactics to distract from the real issues.

1. Distort Bernie's positions, which includes telling half truths. An example is the current healthcare debate. Bernie wants to install a universal healthcare system based on Medicare, but all you hear from the Hillary camp is, "Bernie wants to raise taxes on the middle class!!" Well, I suppose this is true, but it doesn't tell the whole story. Bernie's healthcare legislation would impose a 2.2% tax on people earning <$250,000, and the tax would scale from there in a progressive fashion. However, the tax increase would be more than offset by eliminating private insurance payments and end up *saving* tax payers money overall. Funny how that last bit never seems to get mentioned.

2. Claim Bernie won't be able to get anything passed in Congress and that he's being dishonest to the American people. This one is just sad because it's a self fulfilling prophecy and partially explains why we don't have a more progressive government. If you aren't willing to vote for the candidate that wants a progressive agenda, how do you ever expect to get one passed through Congress? It's not that complicated.

3. Cite poll after poll after poll claiming Bernie can't win and his supporters are just wasting their time. First of all, it's never a waste of time to support a candidate you sincerely believe in. I know enthusiasm is something lacking from the Clinton campaign, but some people believe that we can make this country a better place. Electing Bernie is a big step toward achieving that goal. Secondly, it would be foolish to give up 2 months out from the first votes being cast. The race is tighter than anybody thought it would be, and there's still a long ways to go.

4. Ignore facts at the convenience of their own beliefs. It's called cognitive dissonance, and boy is it ripe these days. Never mind the fact that Clinton's agenda and tone these last few weeks has echoed Republicans (Invoking 9/11 during the debate, campaigning against Universal Healthcare because it "raises taxes on the middle class", but they pretend that Bernie doesn't offer any concrete policy proposals and that even if he did he doesn't offer a way to pay for them. Look, we're all adults here. We can all do our own research. The fact is, Bernie has offered detailed policy plans on a number of issues and ways to pay for them. I posted a handful on this very board about a month ago, all of which came directly from his website. If you were really concerned about what Bernie is proposing and how he intends to pay for it then you'd be out there looking up the information. It is readily available.

5. Turn anything Bernie related into something negative. There was a post yesterday about Bernie eating lunch, and a Hillary supporter came in just to post something derogatory. Seriously.



92 replies, 6697 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 92 replies Author Time Post
Reply Hillary Supporters' strategy becomes clear (Original post)
HerbChestnut Nov 2015 OP
Orsino Nov 2015 #1
HerbChestnut Nov 2015 #3
Hortensis Nov 2015 #20
HerbChestnut Nov 2015 #22
Hortensis Nov 2015 #25
HerbChestnut Nov 2015 #26
Hortensis Nov 2015 #29
HerbChestnut Nov 2015 #38
Hortensis Nov 2015 #40
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #55
msrizzo Nov 2015 #60
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #51
Name removed Nov 2015 #91
MADem Nov 2015 #54
Hortensis Nov 2015 #92
Agschmid Nov 2015 #17
freedom fighter jh Nov 2015 #44
dogknob Nov 2015 #2
MADem Nov 2015 #57
sabrina 1 Nov 2015 #4
Godhumor Nov 2015 #10
sabrina 1 Nov 2015 #21
Major Hogwash Nov 2015 #63
Historic NY Nov 2015 #27
UglyGreed Nov 2015 #5
WillyT Nov 2015 #6
LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #7
HerbChestnut Nov 2015 #9
LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #15
SoapBox Nov 2015 #34
Plucketeer Nov 2015 #69
LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #8
FrostyAusty Nov 2015 #11
upaloopa Nov 2015 #14
FrostyAusty Nov 2015 #16
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #81
Vincardog Nov 2015 #19
senz Nov 2015 #41
litlbilly Nov 2015 #52
upaloopa Nov 2015 #12
HerbChestnut Nov 2015 #13
sabrina 1 Nov 2015 #23
retrowire Nov 2015 #31
JimDandy Nov 2015 #39
LineLineReply .
bravenak Nov 2015 #32
Laser102 Nov 2015 #33
global1 Nov 2015 #18
Scuba Nov 2015 #24
think Nov 2015 #30
bvar22 Nov 2015 #47
tularetom Nov 2015 #62
jeff47 Nov 2015 #67
Major Hogwash Nov 2015 #64
jeff47 Nov 2015 #66
dpatbrown Nov 2015 #28
cantbeserious Nov 2015 #80
stupidicus Nov 2015 #35
ejbr Nov 2015 #36
jeff47 Nov 2015 #68
ejbr Nov 2015 #70
Fairgo Nov 2015 #37
bvar22 Nov 2015 #48
BootinUp Nov 2015 #42
JaneyVee Nov 2015 #43
McCamy Taylor Nov 2015 #45
guillaumeb Nov 2015 #61
Major Hogwash Nov 2015 #65
cui bono Nov 2015 #78
Corruption Inc Nov 2015 #46
smiley Nov 2015 #53
ConservativeDemocrat Nov 2015 #76
in_cog_ni_to Nov 2015 #83
JoePhilly Nov 2015 #49
marym625 Nov 2015 #50
merrily Nov 2015 #56
Trajan Nov 2015 #58
Betty Karlson Nov 2015 #59
noiretextatique Nov 2015 #71
George II Nov 2015 #72
beam me up scottie Nov 2015 #74
Paka Nov 2015 #73
Samantha Nov 2015 #75
Cary Nov 2015 #77
Thespian2 Nov 2015 #79
AtomicKitten Nov 2015 #82
Enthusiast Nov 2015 #84
billhicks76 Nov 2015 #85
DanTex Nov 2015 #86
Tarc Nov 2015 #87
treestar Nov 2015 #88
blackspade Nov 2015 #89
RBInMaine Nov 2015 #90

Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:13 PM

1. This message board isn't a battle to be won.

The real fight's outside.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Orsino (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:17 PM

3. You're right

 

I just needed to blow off some steam. But that said, if there's any lurkers or undecideds out there who might be influenced by what's said here then they need to know what's going on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #3)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:49 PM

20. Herb, actually Hillary's mostly focusing on the GOP candidates.

The black cloud threatening American from the right is what she's talking about in speech after speech. (My term, not hers.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:53 PM

22. She's made some swipes against Bernie lately

 

But for the most part, you're right, she's okay with ignoring her primary competition. Unfortunately, that's not what some of her supporters on this board are doing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:59 PM

25. Whatever. I personally think we should all be shuddering

and focused against what that black cloud represents. Everything else is frivolous in comparison.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #25)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:01 PM

26. I agree to a point.

 

But we shouldn't be so focused on only beating the Republicans that we lose sight of what's going on in-house. We should be fighting for the candidate we believe best represents us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #26)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:09 PM

29. IMO the candidate who best represents us MUST be

the one who can beat, for instance, Ted Cruz. The most extreme and unstable candidate in an extreme field just got a big bump. Here's a Wash Post piece on the new momentum of someone we CANNOT allow to become president.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/11/24/ted-cruz-could-actually-be-the-republican-nominee-for-president/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:38 PM

38. I think we can kill two birds with one stone.

 

I have never seen Republicans be as universally ridiculed as we've seen them during this campaign cycle. Apparently, the RNC is floating Romney as the saving grace if they can't get their act together. It is my firm belief that any candidate the Democrats nominate will have an excellent chance of beating the Republican nominee in the general.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #38)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:45 PM

40. Hope so. Cruz is picking up the evangelicals Carson

is losing. Yesterday I heard that was 25% so far. Cruz may be "universally despised" by colleagues on both sides of the aisle, but he has raised almost as much money as Jeb Bush!

Religious right/GOP base vote + hundreds of millions in donations + brilliant intellect + good speaker = a real race.

I think Hillary should beat such a dangerous and flawed person, but if he becomes the GOP's nominee I'd breathe a lot easier if a little fairy told me The Anointed One would decompensate and be carried away in restraints before next November.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #29)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:56 PM

55. The argument here is about who the candidate is that can bring voters to the polls and beat

a Republican in November 2016.

I think it is Bernie. He gets people to move, to get up and go to his rallies. People at his speeches are excited. Hey. Mention Bernie's name to a group of young people and just listen to the reaction.

Bernie is the candidate who can win in 2016. Hillary -- not so much.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #22)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:07 PM

60. Come on, that works both ways....

Bernie's not going around digging up every right wing meme going back to the 90s either, but that doesn't stop some of his supporters from doing it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hortensis (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:53 PM

51. Then why is she moving rightward so early?

Her tax talk?

Her war-mongering? Sure. We have to fight ISIS. But talking about w no-fly zone when the Russians are already in the fly zone????

If you are going to war, don't talk about your plans to early. What poor military strategy.

The list of Hillary's rightward moves is pretty long.

What does she have against single-payer?

Single-payer will overall cost less than what we have now and free investment money for areas in which we need it. We should try to have efficient, great healthcare for less money, not inefficient, sketchy healthcare for more money but also more profit for the already rich. That's Bernie's plan.

Her economic plan is growth. Sounds great, but if you have growth and the biggest portion of the benefit of the growth goes to the oligarchs, what good is that for the rest of us?

The problem now is disparity in wealth, spreading the economic gains from growth while continuing growth, not just growth in itself. Bernie wants to tax specific kinds of income so that the growth benefits everyone.

Hillary's proposals are just too little, too late.

No wonder the Hillary fans are on the negative. They have very little if anything to be positive about.

Feel the Bern!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #51)


Response to Hortensis (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:55 PM

54. It's only on DU that this is a 'thing.'

Of course, it's only on DU that people thought Kucinich had a shot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MADem (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 02:14 PM

92. :) I wasn't here for Kucinich, but, I can see it. Sure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Orsino (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:46 PM

17. This...

So much this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Orsino (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:12 PM

44. *Some* of it's to be fought here.

Is it worthwhile to support Bernie and go out and fight for him when he seems unelectable and his agenda seems impossible? That's a question for DUers. So how real the "unelectable" and "impossible agenda" memes are is also a question for DUers.

Lots of debunking needs to be done outside of DU. As well as some right here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:14 PM

2. You forgot "Hope Bernie runs out of money and has to drop out before the convention." n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dogknob (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:58 PM

57. He won't run out of money--he's embraced the Super Pac concept.

He took that line out of his stump speech--now it's time for some of those rich guys who like Bernie to start paying his bills.

And his loyal donors will keep funding him for probably longer than they should.

They'll see the handwriting on the wall after Super Tuesday.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:22 PM

4. All true. But the one thing they won't do is talk about issues. And the main they have failed to do

is to stop Bernie's momentum. He has gained enormously in the polls in the past month across all demographics.

So looks like the old negative politics just aren't working for them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #4)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:33 PM

10. The thing with polls is it very easy to see if a claim about them is true

Let's take a look at RCP and see if your claim is correct.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

Now, I may be wrong, but the brown line that has gone from mid30s to 30 in the past few weeks seems to belong to Bernie. And the purple line that has remained consistently in the upper 50s appears to be Clinton.

But hey, trending down is the same as trending up, right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Godhumor (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:50 PM

21. The other thing with polls is there are so many of them. Like this one eg, which shows

Hillary not just trending down but plummeting in just on month while Bernie's trend upwards is amazing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128078422

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #21)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:23 PM

63. She also pooh-poohed the idea of attending a MoveOn.org debate.

She has totally miscalculated the social media affect . . once again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Godhumor (Reply #10)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:07 PM

27. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:24 PM

5. Kick

& R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:25 PM

6. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

 


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:27 PM

7. And the results are-----


On Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:17 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Hillary Supporters' strategy becomes clear
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251845083

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Divisive over the top attack on all DU Hillary supporters claiming they all "always" "distort" and "turn anything related to Bernie into something negative." This OP is just one big callout of DUers and whining about getting "something derogatory" posted about Bernie on a GDP thread.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:23 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Dear Alerter, you are the exact person the poster is talking about.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: another day, another alert from "primaries"...
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The truth seems to hurt
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Not an anyone supporter right now, but do we really need this?
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No reason to hide this at all. It's right in keeping with the tone of GD

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:31 PM

9. Yep, saw it coming.

 

But what needs to be said needs to be said.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:38 PM

15. Yea, but we have a few more months for people to make fools of

themselves on both(all) sides. Hey it's politics, not like it's real life. As the great intellectual Mogo once said "We are just pawns in the great game of life".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:28 PM

34. OMG!

And there was a virtually identical OP by a Hiller, running Bernie down on all of the above points...no Alert on that post.

Just disgraceful.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LiberalArkie (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 04:24 PM

69. Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo..........

 

No one would be THAT thin-skinned - would they??? Reminds me of the alert I got the other day for suggesting Dame Hillary was a B***h thru my use of the GENDERLESS word "canine". I think my lucky stars I am not endowed with that degree of paranoia.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:30 PM

8. And the poster has not joined any of the sects here.

Not a follower of the fly, or the fly swatter, or the Bernie/Che, or Hillary or anything.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:34 PM

11. TBH here's the difference between supporters on DU

Whenever I see a PRO Hillary post on here it is only about her poll numbers or regurgitating a RW talking point.

However, there are often numerous Bernie posts that talk about his policies, proposals, and character.

My question is: Why the stark difference in posting behavior?

I think it's quite simple really, when you are forced to take a long hard look at each candidate it becomes clear who is the people's candidate is and who the corporate candidate is.

Feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel the Bern!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FrostyAusty (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:38 PM

14. Because we don't need to make up shit


Madam President

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to upaloopa (Reply #14)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:44 PM

16. Keep drinking the Clinton Kool-aid

You are playing make believe if you believe Hillary represents anything other than Corporate America and establishment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to upaloopa (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 01:50 AM

81. Except to call Sanders a rapist.

 

To call him a segregationist. To claim that he's protecting pedophiles. To claim that he's a republican with his head between women's legs. To accuse him of being a "disloyal jew.' To assert his only supporters are white supremacists. On, and on, and on.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FrostyAusty (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:47 PM

19. ++ good

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FrostyAusty (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:52 PM

41. True and well said.

 

Glad you're here, FrostyAusty.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FrostyAusty (Reply #11)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:54 PM

52. Perfectly said. Excatly the way i would put it.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:37 PM

12. Strategy? We don't need no stinking strategy

Strategy for what? We are winning. Hillary will be President.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to upaloopa (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:38 PM

13. See point #3

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to upaloopa (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:53 PM

23. So you think your candidate is inevitable then? Well great keep on thinking that way

Meantime I believe that anyone asking voters for this job needs to explain why they should get it.

And maybe NO STRATEGY isn't working so well as voters begin to pay more attention. See here eg:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128078422

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to upaloopa (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:13 PM

31. mmm yes sweet complacency

you just stay comfy and reliant on her, we'll keep volunteering and donating for Bernie.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to retrowire (Reply #31)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:38 PM

39. Bernie supporters are counting on that for the win.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to upaloopa (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:21 PM

32. .

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to upaloopa (Reply #12)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:21 PM

33. Confidence of winners. No need to go negative when your candidate is on her way to the White House.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:47 PM

18. When They Say Bernie Won't Be Able To Get Anything Passed In Congress....

How in the hell do they think that Hillary will ever get anything passed in Congress. Hillary's treatment by Congress - if we don't have a 'political revolution' that Bernie is calling for - will even be more negative and grid locking than President Obama's.

Without talking candidates - I ask people that I know are Hillary supporters - if they would like to break up the banks? if they would like to send their kids to college for free? if they would like to not have to worry about being bankrupted by an illness? if they would like our infrastructure to be repaired? if they would like to wean ourselves away from fossil fuels? if they would like to stop giving tax breaks to corporations that are sending our jobs overseas? if they would like to have a living minimum wage of $15.00 per hour? if they would like to have equal pay for women workers? if they would like to bring back manufacturing jobs to the U.S.? if they would like to eliminate loopholes that let corporations pay no U.S. federal income tax?

Almost to the person - they are for all these things. I get them saying 'yes'.

Then I talk political revolution - the need to put the right people in Congress that will push for these. The need for the People to take back the House and Senate and demand these things from Congress.

That's when I start talking up Bernie and the need for a groundswell of support for a person that tells it like it is and does have a plan.

When one takes some of Bernie's points separately - it is easy for them to take shots at them. But when one looks at Bernie's points in totality - that are intertwining - one can see how they can be achieved.

Put people to work on infrastructure and give them jobs and a decent income - where they feel secure again - they start spending money. Money spent to buy things puts other people to work and gets the economy churning again. People buy things and pay sales tax. More things bought - the more sales tax generated - all of a sudden there's money available to get things accomplished. People will feel comfortable that they can afford a house - -property taxes kick in. Have a tax on speculative stock purchasing - lots of money becomes available for things like free college. Eliminate loopholes so corporations that pay no tax - begin to pay their fair share - more money available.

You see where I'm going on this. If Bernie's points are put into effect - we really move to a recovery and we re-establish a strong middle class that supports the economy.

I've always wondered what the corporations are thinking by dumping on the middle class. At some point there will be a breaking point where people won't be able to buy the very things that the corporations are selling. And we spiral down even further.

I see that Bernie has a plan. A well put together plan to break this spiral and he provides us the best chance at doing this.

I know a lot of Hillary supporters and the bulk of their support come in the form of two major things: 1. they want to have a woman president and 2. they believe that it is her time - that she is next in line for the job - because she was passed by Obama the last time. They feel she is owed the presidency.

I really don't see Hillary supporters talking the issues like the Bernie supporters do. To me that is just asking for more of the same from Congress and keeping the status quo. Is it any wonder why Wall St., the banksters, the corporations, the MSM is pushing for Hillary. They all like the status quo. Is it any wonder why all those same groups blackout or talk negatively about Bernie. They are terribly afraid of what he would do to their warm, cozy, comfortable world.

Sorry for the rant - but that's how I'm feeling this a.m.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to global1 (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 12:55 PM

24. /\_/\_This right here_/\_/\

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to global1 (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:10 PM

30. Great post. Thank you /nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to global1 (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:41 PM

47. Summed it up well.

Thoughtful, logical, pragmatic, and well presented.
Thank You!

DURec for your post.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to global1 (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:17 PM

62. I disagree - Hillary would be able to get things passed in Congress

* The Syria War Resolution

* The Iran War Resolution

* The Permanent and Irrevocable Support for Israel Act

* The Retroactive and Future Immunity from Prosecution for Investment Bankers Act

* Blanket Exemption from Environmental Regulations for Fracking, Coal Mining and Offshore Drilling

* The TPP (Unless Obama takes her off the hook by approving it first)

* A ton of other trade agreements aimed ultimately at disenfranchisement of the American voter

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tularetom (Reply #62)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 04:13 PM

67. Ya know, I think if Clinton proposed those, the Republicans would still have to oppose them

just to placate their base. Yes...their base is that fucking crazy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to global1 (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:29 PM

64. Great post!

You should be on fire this afternoon if you're that hot about politics so early in the morning!

Glad you're on our side!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to global1 (Reply #18)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 04:12 PM

66. If a Republican votes for any Clinton-backed bill, they will lose their next primary.

And barring a miracle, the Republicans will control the House until at least 2022.

So if Clinton wins, we're in for years of government shutdown and debt limit battles that can only be "won" by fucking over Democrats.

The problem isn't Republican politicians - there are plenty who would negotiate in good faith. The problem is Republicans and Fox have been telling the Republican base that Clinton is Satan incarnate for the last 20 years, and the base believes them. Thus anything Clinton supports would instantly be loathed by the base as if it was proposed by Satan. Even the "Puppies and Kittens Are Cute Act of 2017".

Meanwhile, O'Malley and Sanders would "only" be despised at "generic Democrat" levels. They'd be evil socialists just like every other Democrat since there is not 20 years of utter hatred built in the base for them. They will still face opposition from the party that doesn't actually want to govern, but it will not be to the degree faced by Clinton.

After all, the Benghazi committee's still running. And the base loves it. Even after Clinton's testimony.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:09 PM

28. Right out of Karl Rove's playbook.

 

They are now employing one of Rove's most obnoxious tacit, go after his strength

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dpatbrown (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 12:53 AM

80. Makes One Wonder If Rove Is On Retainer

eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:28 PM

35. this is a natural result of the rightwing stench she has always had

 

it's easier to paint the opposition as the stinky one than to try to cover up her stench

that thay've chosen offensive offense as their primary defense is really a measure of their awareness that sticking to past and present records isn't a winner in terms of New Deal dem goals

they're merely identifying themselves as 3rdway/new dem types, and that's about it.

good post

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:30 PM

36. Not sure if someone addressed this

But another smoke screen that irks me is that "Bernie has been trying to get this done for 30 years with no results" As if this is necessarily a reflection of Bernie and his leadership. I imagine there may have been a congressman in the 1820s who tried to end slavery. Because he didn't accomplish that or couldn't lead others to the same conclusion means he was wrong on substance or someone to be ridiculed? Maybe it is not Bernie and his ideas that are the problem...just sayin'/food for thought. Maybe this society is the one who is naive if the status quo is acceptable to it.

Is he perfect? No. He already admitted this at Liberty U., but we should strive for higher ideals nevertheless.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ejbr (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 04:15 PM

68. FDR, Truman and LBJ all fought for single-payer.

I really want a Clinton supporter to tell me they were "not effective".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jeff47 (Reply #68)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 04:37 PM

70. +1 n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:30 PM

37. It has been trending Reagan

I am still reeling from the supply side schooling I got from an HRC supplicant. Did you know that the 99% are in a symbiotic relationship with the 1%? Yes, they create the jobs, we create the means by which they create they jobs. Labour and our ownership of same did not register in this vine ripened piece of monkey fruit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fairgo (Reply #37)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:43 PM

48. LOL

" Labour and our ownership of same did not register in this vine ripened piece of monkey fruit."

I mean REALLY laughing Out Loud.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:57 PM

42. My reaction

When a large group of the DU community starts crying like babies about tactics by a small group.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 01:59 PM

43. LOL. Everyone knows about 'Bernie supporters'.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:19 PM

45. Who needs strategy when you are winning?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #45)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:14 PM

61. Winning without a clear idea of what one hopes to accomplish

serves nothing. The strategy is obviously to overwhelm with money and hope that the "inevitability" of the candidacy is enough to compensate for a neo-liberal, third way, soft center right politics.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #45)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:31 PM

65. How is she winning?

Not one single vote has been cast yet!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #65)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 09:26 PM

78. Like this?


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)


Response to Corruption Inc (Reply #46)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:55 PM

53. Uugh

I really wished I hadn't followed that link. That is definitely not a reality based thread.
😊

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to smiley (Reply #53)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 07:07 PM

76. It's clearly reality based when talking about the DU

I always distinguish between the Bernie supporters in real life and the ones you find here. Among other things, 85% of Bernie supporters like Hillary too, and over 90% of them say they will vote for Hillary in the general election if their she wins the Democratic nomination.

This outright hatred of mainstream Democrats that you see among the writers here isn't common.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Corruption Inc (Reply #46)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 02:59 AM

83. Aaaawe...Thatcher's getting under their skin. Truth hurts.

The comparison is spot on. Anyone can read about Thatcherism on Thatcher's Wiki page.
Thatcher = Clinton If they didn't like Thatcher, they should be voting for O'Malley or Sanders. It's that simple.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:47 PM

49. The guy talking about "cognitive dissonance" is calling others "condescending".

Rather funny.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:49 PM

50. K&R!



Well written, clear, concise and accurate. "..and boy is it ripe here."

I would add the current, consistent, meme "he's never accomplished anything" as a ridiculous, outright lie. Again, so easy to fact check. And when you do, you discover he's one of the most effective and liberal legislator around.

Bravo! Or Brava! Whichever the case may be

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 02:58 PM

56. In all fairness,

how dare Sanders eat lunch?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:05 PM

58. There are Hillary supporters on this forum?

 

I didn't notice ....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 03:07 PM

59. Thanks for the explanation.

 

You see things much clearer than I do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 04:43 PM

71. clearly there is a huge rift within the party: time to stop pretending

and that's the bottom line. i am tired of voting for centrists who differ little from republicons on economic issues. that's one of the really blatantly dishonest memes the clinton camp has been pushing by attacking sanders on social issues. it is laughably dishonest because they came to power by being republicon lite on economic AND social issues.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 05:55 PM

72. I wonder why I never heard of this "strategy".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to George II (Reply #72)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 06:50 PM

74. Really, George? Because you use #s 1, 4 and 5 frequently.

You posted a bankster Bernie meme which was factually incorrect:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251640125


And then there was this gem - asking what took Bernie "so long" to propose an equal rights amendment when he actually proposed it back in 2001, you then moved the goal posts because everything Bernie does is NOT GOOD ENUFF and more hilarity ensued:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=766764

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 06:48 PM

73. Good Vent

It gets really tiresome. So often, certain ones just come in to say something snarky no matter what the discussion is about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 07:01 PM

75. Thank you for taking the time and having the patience to write this thread

I followed Senator Sanders for some time before he announced he was running. I always admired him as someone who is very intelligent, very honest, and right on point on a myriad of issues. I thought it would really be great if he one day ran for President, but I thought he would not take it on because of his age and the stress of running. So when he did announce, I was overjoyed.

I totally understand everyone does not agree on the issues, but I do not understand why people stoop to make sleazy allegations against Bernie Sanders when they could instead just argue against his positions on issues. Making stuff up is not a substitute for a civilized political discussion, and in that regard your thread goes a long way to rebut a lot of incorrect information.

Thanks again, recommended

Sam

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 08:38 PM

77. Must we have an us versus them between ourselves?

Are not "conservatives" odious and pernicious enough? With Trump decreeing that people deserve to get roughed up and all of the overt bigotry and racism and xenophobia are they not lurching to the right?

They are a dangerous ideology. Can't we fight them instead of ourselves?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Tue Nov 24, 2015, 10:22 PM

79. Huge K & R !!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 02:00 AM

82. After the kamikaze campaign Clinton ran in 2007/08, pay her fans no never mind.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 05:34 AM

84. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 06:50 AM

85. They Lie And Even Worse Censor

 

Their feelings are more important than anyone else's. They censor anything their brains can't handle. I truly hate many of them here. And that's the weirdest thing to say because I love most and live by love more than anything else. They must really suck.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 06:54 AM

86. Try to get your facts straight.

For example, Bernie's senate single payer bill (he hasn't given any specifics in his campaign, so that's all we have to work with) includes both a 2.2% income tax increase and a 6.7% payroll tax, for a total increase of 8.7%. Also, that bill used a financial transaction tax to pay for part of the program, but in his campaign, he is already using that to fund free college, so he has to find more taxes somewhere.

"Ignore facts at the convenience of their own beliefs." Might want to look in the mirror.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 09:04 AM

87. Yes, the strategy is very clear

1) Talk to the voters
2) Convince them that you are the best person for the job
3) If more of them say they prefer your vision over the other candidate's, you win.

My gosh, how diabolical.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 09:07 AM

88. So? Are they supposed to roll over?

They are trying to win. Bernie needs a better strategy, then. Complaining about HRC trying to win is silly. He has to do something to beat her himself, not complain about how she is winning.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 09:21 AM

89. But ponies and unicorns! Or something....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HerbChestnut (Original post)

Wed Nov 25, 2015, 09:33 AM

90. Nonsense. And the attacks on Hillary from the Bernie side are CONSTANT and MUCH MORE. Enough.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread