If Bernie Loses, Are POC Going to be Blamed?

[firebrand80]

I'm seeing a lot of "If minorities knew about X,Y,Z regarding Hillary/Bernie, they would change their vote." Aside from this being highly offensive, it reminds me of the passage of Prop 8 in CA in 2012. When it passed, Black voters got the blame.

Many White voters on the far left think that the black votes does (or should) align with their political views. Let me help you out: it doesn't. The Black vote, taken as as a whole, is largely centrist, just like (gasp) the rest of the country.

I predict that if Bernie doesn't make it, POC are going to get blamed for not carrying him over the finish line. They just could not see that he was clearly the best.

[NCTraveler]

1. Sanders and only Sanders is to be blamed if he loses. nt.

[BlueCaliDem]

28. Yes, that IS common sense thinking. But I fear that when he loses, PoC will be blamed

for it. I'm getting that feeling already here on DU (and other liberal sites I post on) with variants of "If PoC only took the time to go to Sanders' website, they'll know he's fighting for them!"

It's just one step from the full-out blame-game, rather than taking responsibility that their preferred candidate is running a weak campaign.

[NCTraveler]

36. Of course they will.

Right here on this very board it has been insinuated that they are suffering from Stockholm, simple stupidity, and BLM protestors have been called racist. That group will of course blame POC. Social Justice is a speed bump in the way of their primary goal. They simply don't care. Economics or bust.

[BlueCaliDem]

43. I hope we're proven wrong, NCT. I hope that after the primaries and Sanders loses

to Hillary Clinton because of a strong turnout among minorities, Sanders supporters sit back a moment, calm down, and allow their cooler heads to analyze why that happened; why Sanders couldn't get his message across to the majority of PoC.

[Chemisse]

102. Hopefully, if Clinton wins,

She will win by a margin that exceeds the proportion of minorities who voted in the election. If that happens, nobody will be able to blame POC for the loss (not that they should anyway, of course).

[Hortensis]

106. Regardless, people will be too busy crediting POC

for their role in electing HRC, assuming they do decide to do that, to be thinking of Bernie. That's just the way it is.

BTW, where on earth are DU's Hispanics? Surely there's one somewhere? What does he or she have to say?

[still_one]

97. I would also venture that some of Sander's supporters also contributed negatively to his

campaign

[AgingAmerican]

158. That is a meme

It's about as solid as jelly

[BootinUp]

2. Bernies message is attracting

folks that want to focus on one issue and not discuss a whole lot of other issues.

[merrily]

6. Bull crap, but keep repeating it because repetition makes perfect--and true, right?

And, notice everyone, that even thought this thread is about people of color, there is no open comment on it so far about the alleged indifference of Bernie supporters to issues that plague people of color. Not a single one.

[NurseJackie]

18. "... s/he said after 5 whole minutes. "

[merrily]

22. Anxious to show you missed the point entirely? Good for you!

[NurseJackie]

40. I'm equally amused at the posters who ...

... immediately reply with "crickets" within one minute of the op timestamp. At least you waited 5 minutes. Congratulations!

[merrily]

42. And, you also win the second non sequitur award of the thread. Congrats again!

[NurseJackie]

51. Tee hee!

[pinebox]

29. Anytime you conservative Dems wish to discuss issues with us, please do

bad sorry but Bernie at least wading the the waters of red.

[kath]

89. +1. Posts by them discussing issues are *extremely* rare.

Almost non-existent.

[randys1]

101. Oh god

I am gonna vote for Hillary if Bernie isnt the nominee and I am going to work hard to get her elected.

Do you think I am a con dem?

Wanna do a little contest to see which of us is more conservative?

[Fawke Em]

139. Oh! I do! Let's go. eom

[restorefreedom]

3. i will say the same thing i said about gore

it is up to each candidate to make their case and win votes. no votes are owed to them, and no other candidate (like nader for example) should be blamed for them not winning each vote and each voter.

[lumberjack_jeff]

4. No. People of all colors will have Wall St to blame. nt

[merrily]

5. IF Sanders loses, I will blame Third Way corporatists and a rigged system.

[ibegurpard]

11. ditto

Communities of color are no more immune to propaganda and mass marketing than anyone else. Bernie is continuing to make inroads ...the question is whether he can reach the tipping point and do it in time. There was a reason there was such a frantic effort to paint him as insensitive to the issues of PoC through the spring and fall.
I don't blame voters...I blame the people spewing bullshit at them.

[redstateblues]

81. don't forget the neo-liberals and the DINOs

[merrily]

85. They would be included in "Third Way corporatists."

[brush]

105. Do you mean the primaries or the general?

If it's the general, which seems to be what the OP gets wrong, people of color are not going to vote for repugs against Sanders.

That whole notion is so ridiculous it's hardly worth the my key strokes.

Since when do AAs vote for repugs, and Asian Americans, and Latino Americans?

[merrily]

107. I saw the OP as about the primary. Therefore my reply was about the primary.

I don't always nail that correlation (or, for that matter, any other correlation), but I think I did this time.

[Live and Learn]

164. +1000 nt

[TM99]

7. The only blame games being played at DU

are by the Third Way neoliberal New Dems on this site.

They constantly describe progressives as retards, pony & unicorn lovers, hippies, etc. They call them purists so that they can blame any failure by the DNC to GOTV and actually win some state and federal elections year after year.

If Sanders doesn't win, I will blame the moneyed elites, the MSM propaganda machine, and the establishment Dems and Repubs who are in their pocket caring more about them than us.

That works on any race, gender, or demographic. We PoC are not magical you know. We as a voting block are no more superior or inferior to any other. We are easily swayed by bullshit, are ill informed, and vote against our best self interests as well.

[BainsBane]

9. Your post serves as a perfect demonstration

of why he won't win.

[bravenak]

10. Lordy!

[BlueCaliDem]

33. BINGO.

I hope s/he learns that lesson quickly - before the polls open.

[Betty Karlson]

34. And your response serves as an illustration of every grudge progressives hold against centrists:

"we don't need you, we don't want you, but remember to vote for us anyway".

[BainsBane]

48. Insults, treating people as inferior isn't a winning campaign strategy

Last edited Wed Nov 25, 2015, 04:11 PM - Edit history (1)

People aren't going to believe others care about equality when they treat them as inferior. It fact, it's clear they do not.

Nor did you bother to ask why my views are. The fact I disagree on tactics and approach and fail to share your adoration for a single member of the political elite was enough for you to declare me a centrist. It's a sadly narrow conception of politics and ideology, but precisely the kind of view articulated by people whose entire approach to politics is about the advancing the career of a single member of the political elite.

[yardwork]

62. It's good to remind folks that Bernie is indeed a member of the "political elite."

One doesn't become a multi-term senator without playing the political game. I believe that many people have created a mythological idea about what and who Bernie Sanders is that is more reflective of who they are and what they believe. It's somewhat like falling in love. Ninety percent of it is about oneself, not the object of adoration.

[treestar]

156. Yes, this Bernie is a fictional creation

so is the Evil Hillary that has been invented.

[Betty Karlson]

141. Your post was in defense of a centrist

Whatever your own political position, the particular defense - that YOU CHOSE - of a centrist serves as an illustration etc...

And this accusation of a "narrow conception of politics and ideology" could well be leveled against Clinton supporters on DU, who leave no stone unturned in their efforts to belittle Sanders supporters. It's almost as if there is one standard for Clinton supporters, and another one for Sanders supporters.

[Scootaloo]

160. Then why do you persist in doing it?

Also this:

and fail to share your adoration for a single member of the political elite (...) people whose entire approach to politics is about the advancing the career of a single member of the political elite.

Who on earth do you think you're fooling?

[Fawke Em]

140. Wow. You guys are really tone deaf.

[onecaliberal]

16. ^^^THAT.RIGHT.THERE!^^^

[yardwork]

23. If you point can point to any post on DU using the term "retards" I will alert on it

DUers are usually disapproving of use of that term.

I'm a progressive myself so I would be sensitivectk being called all the mean things you list. I don't see it here.

[TM99]

44. The tacit approval of Rahm Emmanuel

calling progressives 'retards' was the last straw for me here with the sensible woodchuck neoliberals.

[yardwork]

60. I intensely dislike Rahm Emanuel and I don't remember anybody approving of his use of that term.

That's a classic bait and switch you just did there. First, you made a very strong allegation against many DUers. When asked to provide one single post as evidence to back up your accusation, you pivoted and brought up something Rahm Emanuel, who is not a DUer afaik, said.

[TM99]

61. Then you better dust up your searching skills.

Progressives are not liked or respected here. They receive shit time and time again with many the expletive and condescension.

[yardwork]

63. Oh so now it's my fault for not doing the work myself?

The onus is on the person making the accusation to provide proof.

I am a progressive, and I feel liked and respected here by many DUers. Posts with expletives are usually hidden, although our jury system is what it is.

There are a lot of trolls here, too. If you have been treated badly for being a progressive, it's possible that you crossed paths with a troll. I'm sorry if that happened.

[JustAnotherGen]

146. I took the challenge back to 2010 on DU2

I think it predates you being here - because I didn't recall DUers having a love fest over Rahm's Words.

Cenk Uygar: "It looks Rahm Emanuel is done"
February 21, 2010
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x190548


Irish_Shark was tombstoned pretty quick - with 131 posts and within two days of this OP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x154425


The dispute came after some deep dives into what context and what relation it was into. Jane Hammster used to be pretty respected around DU and her sensationalistic approach to the story was what did her in. You don't read much about Fire Dog Lake here anymore.

I remember thinking - Dammit Rahm! You just made me agree with something Sister Sarah Alaskastan said. Damn you! You asshole!

BTW - As someone who hangs around the "house" and married to a white man (I'm kind of like Haley's Queen! ) is it okay to say - I despise Rahm but I understand why the people of Chicago would have elected him? I've seen people despise Corey Booker too at DU - not understanding the only other option for his seat was an idiotic TEA Party asswipe. <--- No offense to Preparation H wipes intended. If voting for him twice makes me an Oligarch Plutocratic Elitist Corporate Whore Third Way DLCer - I will wear that badge with pride. I suspect there are folks living in Chicago that feel the same way about Emanuel.

[Number23]

171. Killed it as usual, JAG. Awesome post. But I guess our dear friend will have to reply later

when he's not flagged.

If voting for him twice makes me an Oligarch Plutocratic Elitist Corporate Whore Third Way DLCer - I will wear that badge with pride. I suspect there are folks living in Chicago that feel the same way about Emanuel.

Nice.

[JustAnotherGen]

180. His being flagged is unfortunate

I seriously did not remember any great love for R.E. after that statement he made. Yep - context counts. I still have no respect for Emanuel. You want to behave that way? Go ask your brother for a job. Ari is the basis for Ari Gold on Entourage.

[artislife]

72. Preach!! nt

[kath]

91. Bingo!

Great post.

[Rose Siding]

150. Really? You've been called a "retard"? On DU?

Your general characterization of Clinton supporters is further flawed, of course, but I'd be really interested in knowing who called you "retards"?

If you have been, you should alert the post. That label was been used too much, for too long to insult those who could not defend themselves. It has no place in discussions between progressives.

If you were just elaborating your point with rhetoric, please edit your post. Language wounds, sometimes more seriously than you intend. I'd like to believe that's what happened here.

[Live and Learn]

165. +1000 nt

[bravenak]

181. Just waiting for you to be able to post. This is taking quite a while, imo.

This discussion was getting good.

[bravenak]

8. Heh.

[LWolf]

12. No.

I'm not sure why you'd ask that.

I wish you wouldn't decide for yourself what I, and other white voters on the left, think about black votes or anything else.

I don't pretend to speak for PoC or for anyone but myself. You shouldn't, either, imo.

If Bernie loses the nomination, I may blame the neo-liberal Democratic machine, if I feel the need to blame anything.

I'm not conceding the nomination.

[okasha]

170. "I wish you wouldn't decide for yourself...."

So who should POC allow to decide for us?

The only basis we have to decide what anyone means on DU is that person's words and history here. No assistance needed, thank you very much.

[LWolf]

185. Leaving out part of a quote can really twist the meaning, can't it?

Should I "suggest" your motivations/thinking for doing so, even though I can't get inside your head? Since the subject was about my, and others, thinking, I think it's reasonable. Unless you magically read minds, you've got no basis for your suggestion.

"I wish you wouldn't decide for yourself what I, and other white voters on the left, think about black votes or anything else. "

[okasha]

189. No, I can't read your mind.

Therefore I have to decide, for myself, what you meant by your words and actions mean. At least among a subset, the consensus seems to be that POC, LGBT's and women have received our still-tenuous civil rights at the benevolent, paternaliistic hands of our white, straight overlords. Perhaps you understand why that is offensive.

[Kalidurga]

13. No

[Truprogressive85]

14. omg joke du jour

Did Clinton supporters blame POC when she lost in 08

[99th_Monkey]

32. +1000!!!!! nt

[artislife]

75. A few did...nt

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. The blame falls to Sanders for running in the first place

All his campaign will do is expose the fact that there are more centrists than Democrats in the Democratic Party.

[Live and Learn]

167. Ouch. So true! nt

[Hiraeth]

17. no. eom

[Chan790]

19. I don't think so.

If Sanders loses, I'm going to blame the DLC/Clintonite wing of the party. I think they're leading us to our doom as a nation and as a party. I'll be doubling-down on my desire/intent to run them out of the tent. I think there is no room for Hillary supporters or DLCers in any Democratic party I'm willing to remain in.

There's a reckoning where the "pragmatic, electable centrists" are going to have to throw some red meat, so to speak, to the economic left or else we're just going to stay home and say "Fuck you!" when Clinton loses, if she's the nominee.

I know who deserves the blame if Sanders loses: Clintonites. Hillary and her supporters. I view them as my enemy...increasingly more so than even Republicans. Republicans at-least have the decency to not pretend to be Democrats.

I'd rather lose as a Social Democrat than win Pyrrhic victories with Clintonite Centrists. Hillary can win the nomination...I'm writing in Sanders. I'd have been willing to compromise to M O'M but I'll never cast a vote for Clinton.

[okasha]

59. Wow. Drank the whole pitcherful, didn't you?

[Chan790]

64. Own the Kool-aid factory. :) n/t

[artislife]

73. Funny, how we hated posts like these

when they were directed to us as we supported Obama. But I guess you like these tactics.

[Live and Learn]

169. Childish and disgusting retort. nt

[BootinUp]

66. .

[Chan790]

67. Laugh.

It just deepens my resolve to never vote for Hillary.

[BootinUp]

68. Good for you. nt

[morningfog]

20. No. Not by anyone who understands politics anyway.

That would be an incredibly stupid, wrong and offensive statement to make.

[jkbRN]

21. You proclaiming everyone has moderate

Is a fucking joke. Especially in the primaries. Lol, that's laughable.

[Romulox]

24. The Atlanta rally really has the Clinton camp frightened. That seems all too clear. nt

[leftofcool]

27. Scared of Killer Mike?

Are you serious??????????

[Romulox]

31. as a heart attack. nt

[BlueCaliDem]

45. Nah. Civil Rights icon, Rep. John Lewis, is firmly for Hillary Clinton.

There's no fear among any Hillary Clinton supporters of Killer Mike (whoever he is). He is NO John Lewis.







John Lewis is pulled off a stool during a sit-in at a segregated lunch counter in Nashvillle in the 1960s.

[Romulox]

46. He can't rap. nt

[BlueCaliDem]

50. Who says? I'm pretty sure, with that wonderful voice, he'd make a fine Rapper if he applied

himself.

[Chan790]

76. You do understand that less than 50% of Black youth under the age of 30 know who Lewis is, right?

Less care. I don't mean to diminish the man's accomplishments in the least because he's a national hero...but his opinion matters less to minority youth than that of athletes or musicians. It just does. I don't think Killer Mike's endorsement is the end-all be-all. Clinton can overcome that.

Now, if Fetty Wap gets up on a stage and endorses Sanders though...it's all over for Hillary.

[MrWendel]

84. Doesn't that say more...

about one of the problems with youth than anything else? If we forget who where we were, then we can't Identify with where we are going.

P.S.
Fetty Sucks Ass. And I have NO clue who Killer Mike is.

[jeff47]

95. Time moves on.

Lewis's heroic acts were about 50 years ago now. Heroic acts from before your parents were born are far less "real" to people of every generation. They're something read in a history book. They lose the visceral feeling surrounding the heroic acts.

There were incredible heroics in, say, WWI. Are they as "real" to you as heroics that occurred during your life?

[MrWendel]

108. So when...

Mike says "Bernie is the next MLK" it means nothing to his supporters right?

[Alittleliberal]

112. Poor example

MLK is 1 of maybe 20 people in our history that 90% of Americans could name. John Lewis served a vastly important role in shaping history but won't leave the lasting effect that MLK, Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, FDR and a handful of others have left.

[MrWendel]

115. So anyone...

who knows anything about the original BLM movement known as the Civil Rights movement knows that Dr King was the only person of significance marching in Selma?

Selma is a good movie, one of my favorites. That way we saw how important these people were that marched across that bridge. John Lewis led that march by the way. Stop trying to downplay his place in history just to score points in an election. Hes not Gandhi, MLK, or Malcolm X but that does not make him less important.

And I'm not even American and I can recognize him, what's the 90% excuse?

[Alittleliberal]

116. Easy there

I'm not trying to down play anything. I have a great respect for John Lewis. I'm just saying that history won't remember him the way it will remember MLK and as a result many people simply have no idea who he is. Everyone knows who MLK is so invoking his name obviously is symbolically more important then John Lewis endorsement for the vast majority of civilians. Not commenting on the value of any of this. Just pointing out the fact that most people don't care. A huge majority of people just don't give a shit. About any of this. MLK is someone even those people who don't care about anything know about.

[MrWendel]

117. While I agree...

with what you just said, I do have a problem with this idea that Dr. King would be used as a political prize. What he would or wouldn't do. Who he would or wouldn't endorse. He deserves more respect than that from all of us.
Its does bother me though that unless someone has a twitter or FB account, he or she loses relevance. The library or even google is there for a reason. Without knowing where we came from, how the hell do we even know where we are going? Was all that sacrifice for nothing?

[Alittleliberal]

120. It goes beyond a political prize though

Again I'm not making a value Judgement over what Killer Mike says. Personally, I think it's a little politically opportunistic but MLK was a real person with very well documented beliefs. I don't think it's out of the realm of logic to say that would he be with us today he would be endorsing Sanders. I also think that for all the good he did he was just a human. Just like all the other good people who came before him and will come after him. He profoundly changed this country for the better but he shouldn't be on a pedestal. No one should be.


We move forward by learning from the past. I'm with you on that but part of moving forward is by applying ideas from the past that worked and improving on them. Progress is slow and Most people would rather watch cat videos.

[jeff47]

122. No, "loses the visceral feeling" is not the same as "means nothing".

It means the heroics are more comic-book-like. It changes from a person into a historical figure.

Again, there were plenty of heroes from before your parent's time. How does your reaction to them stand up to your reaction to John Lewis?

[MrWendel]

124. The same...

because they taught me the value of an Angela Davis, Stokely Carmichael, and Rosa Parks. Before that there were people like George Washington Carver, Harriet Tubman, and Benjamin O. Davis, Jr.

[Luminous Animal]

127. Mike never said that. He said that Bernie is the best candidate to carry on the legacy of MLK.

[MrWendel]

128. Then Mike...

is completely full of shit. No more than the people who thought Barack Obama was going to be the next MLK. Using MLK and comparing him to Bernie to gain more Black votes is bullshit.

Either Bernie can stand on his own record and his own two feet or he can't.

Fucking pisses me off when anyone uses a historical and revered figure to make comparisons.

[Luminous Animal]

130. Again. He never said that Bernie is the next MLK. He said that Bernie is the best candidate to

carry on the visions of MLK based on Bernie's record.

No comparison at all but a continuum. Long lost and hopefully found.

[Major Hogwash]

153. Yeah, but almost 100% of blacks over the age of 50 know who MLK is.

And that is the difference in the ballgame.

[Luminous Animal]

135. Do you know how much respect Lewis lost when he sided with establishment at the Atlanta

protest?

Youth protesters are scoffing at him. AND THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING.

They are now looking at Lewis as one of those good "negroes" of the 60s that cautioned restrained.

[appalachiablue]

56. +5

[daleanime]

25. No, they won't....

don't you realize that Sandernistas are responsible for every evil in our society?

[Betty Karlson]

26. Pop 8 was ugly. Voting for it was morally reprehensible.

And that reprehensible thing was done by people of all races.

If Pop H8 was passed by mostly centrist voters, then centrist voters have a problem with their morality: their hearts are dark, whatever the complexion of their skins.

[BlueCaliDem]

41. Just for clarification...did you mean Proposition "Prop" 8 in California?

Thanks!

[Betty Karlson]

90. The same one:

Proposition 8
Prop 8
Prop H8

Prejudiced Overreacting People = P(r)OP 8

[MineralMan]

30. Blamed by whom?

See, the thing is for me is that I trust people to vote as they think best. Anyone who plays a blame game after the election is simply wrong. Individual voters will decide for themselves who they want as a nominee. In aggregate, they will choose the nominee.

No blame is called for. Period.

[Kelvin Mace]

35. I take it, based on your sig

that you are a "Third Way" centrist Democrat.

Interesting that universal health care, prison/police reform, income equality, equal pay for equal work, Wall Street reform, etc, are now considered "far Left" views that poor and minority voters don't approve of.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. If Clinton loses, will the Left get blamed...as usual?

[Livluvgrow]

39. Liberals

as well as progressive white males.

[Blue_In_AK]

94. Of course they will.

[jeff47]

96. Of course. Even when the turnout problem is moderates. (nt)

[CajunBlazer]

98. Only if far left liberals like you, who aren't really Democrats, ....

... don't vote for her in the general election after she becomes the party's nominee.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

100. What are the qualifications for a "Real" Democrat?

You mean a "Real"" Democrat like Hillary? One supported Bush's wars? One who thinks that torture is OK? One that has paying gigs with the Capitalists and Banksters?

[CajunBlazer]

121. A Democrat is any liberal who realizes that the worst thing that can happen to this country....

....is for a Republican to win the White House again. Any liberal who doesn't understand that is an idealist who is in danger of losing touch with reality.

[BootinUp]

123. +1

[Douglas Carpenter]

183. first they will blame the left - then - now MARK MY WORD- if Secretary Clinton loses in the General

Election - later on we will all hear and it will become respectable opinion that Clinton was a far leftest who lost because the party had been hijacked by the radical left. As absurd as it sounds - MARK MY WORD - that is EXACTLY what they will be saying. I have heard it all before.

[Bread and Circus]

38. This seems like a shit stirring thread.

[Truprogressive85]

47. Centrist = political cowardice

I am Black man who sees thru the political bullshit and win or lose Sen. Sanders is giving his all to understand and listen to POC.


Hillary Clinton lost the nomination and the black vote during the 08 campaign because she used racist tactics against a black man in the Democratic Party.

The far left whites may or may be well versed in "the struggle" but they at least give a damn. The far left whites I know are my brothers and sisters in the battle against racism, against poverty, against greed, against rouge police forces. Unlike like white centrists and even black centrists who just rather just hire more cops and built more jails, who are in favor of fat cats get fat, who don't have a solution for poverty and will never get my support.

[artislife]

77. The week of Super Tuesday was the end

of liking the Clintons. I was already an Obama supporter, but I can never forget or forgive.

[CajunBlazer]

99. Hillary lost the black vote....

... when she went up against Obama. All indications are that she will win the black vote this time around by a very large margin. Check out the polls in South Carolina.

[Major Hogwash]

154. Right on! I think that is true, too.

That is the bare truth, right down to the brass tacks!!

[Douglas Carpenter]

184. +10000

[bvar22]

49. Your fevered imagination is to blame for dragging this shit out today,

WAY before the election, in an effort to stir up anger and resentment that as of today exists in your (hopeful) imagination.

I believe that if Bernie loses the Primary,
Sanders supporters will blame Hillary, conservative 3rd Way Politics of triangulation,
and the naive, information challenged Hillary voters.


UNRec...for posting sick accusations that have no basis in fact.

[artislife]

78. This OP seems like carefully laid bricks, doesn't it? nt

[bvar22]

83. Must be glass bricks,

because the whole concocted post is embarrassingly transparent.


I may have another for the IGNORE list, something I have never used until this week.

[artislife]

86. Perfect description

No, I have a lot of people on ignore...since the fly swatter stuff. I just don't need ugly personalities. I don't mind people who believe otherwise, but the dark, underside is way too common here.

[Cali_Democrat]

52. Yes

Most likely.

Just look at how the BLM activists in Seattle were treated.

[SwampG8r]

125. Yeah wben tbey were shouted down and tossed out by security oh wait

That was when hillary met them
In seattle tbey were given the mike and allowed to speak

[Number23]

132. Yep. Screamed at, demanded that they be tased. And to make a horrible situation even worse

then Sanders supporters flooded the whole damn Internet with the stupidest, half assed "theories" about how BLM was a "Soros funded" enterprise designed to "support Hillary." And that's when they weren't calling BLM protesters "thugs" and "subhuman."

Damn, these folks would love ANYTHING for us to forget all of that shit. Ain't never, ever, ever going to happen.

[aikoaiko]

155. While you are remembering those times remember also

That the issue was about tactics and not the goals of BLM because black lives matter very much.

I would think you, who criticizes Bernie supporter tactics constantly, would appreciate that distinction.

[Number23]

161. I don't give a fat flying fart what the "concerns" and "issues" were

And the fact that you think that an "issue about tactics" make it perfectly acceptable for people to denounce an entire civil rights movement and label the participants "subhuman" and "thugs" says a hell of a lot about you and the people whose disgusting, deplorable behavior you are completely willing to overlook because they are on your side.

[aikoaiko]

162. Very few people denounced the movement or used slurs.

I didn't see anyone on DU call them thugs or subhuman (not saying it didn't happen but I didn't see it here) but if I did I would said something.

Of course many were busy trying to understand what #bowdownBernie meant and how we were white supremacists merely for wanting Bernie to be able to speak to audience.

[Number23]

163. Then you weren't looking. Which is of course SHOCKING. Really. SHOCKING

Not only did you somehow miss the DOZENS of articles and denouncements -- including from other Sanders supporters -- about how atrocious so many were behaving all over the Internet, now you want to pivot so that you can whine about the bowdownbernie hash tag and the lie that people were called white supremacists? Again... SHOCKING. Really.

[aikoaiko]

174. I did see the denouncement of the full blown Soros-HRC-BLM conspiracy and....

and I've see several other blog posts about how mean Bernie supporters are to everyone.

What I'm saying is that I didn't see the DU posts where a Bernie supporter called BLM thugs or subhuman and therefore didn't denounce it.

I suppose the only thing I saw directly as the harassing letter sent to bravenak and I denounced that vigorously.

You might think the #bowdownBernie thing was trivial but in trying to make sense of it all it was confusing to me- was that the real intent of the Seattle protestors or it was something else.

The Seatlle BLM protestors called the audience white liberal supremacists. Is that different from white supremacists?

[Number23]

178. I couldn't less if you saw them. Many here did, including many black DUers

Many people all over the Internet have skewered the behavior of these people. And the bowdownbernie hash tag was created much in the same vein as the berniesoblack hash tag. To point out the racist, over the top of far too many Sanders supporters, particularly towards black people.

The fact that you care FAR more about hash tags than about the behavior of a slew of Sanders supporters who have engaged in absolutely idiotic behavior, including sliming John Lewis' Facebook page after he endorsed Hillary, is your choice. Why in God's name you think that I am even the slightest bit interested in having a conversation with someone who thinks and believes the way that you clearly do escapes me completely.

[aikoaiko]

179. I think you're interested because you're posting on a discussion board.

And in particular you're responding to me, but we don't have to continue.

Hope your Thanksgiving was a good one.

[okasha]

53. Of course.

Right along with women, LGBT's, union workers, all of whom will be castigated as too stupid to know what's best for us.

[Starry Messenger]

57. +1

[yardwork]

69. I hear we have Stockholm Syndrome. /nt

[Squinch]

88. I am in the process of identifying a condition called Montpelier Syndrome.

It's characterized by the belief by the afflicted person that no one actually understands things except the afflicted person, and a belief that everyone who disagrees with him simply doesn't understand stuff as well as he does. Sometimes, the affected person shows these beliefs by making the statement, "Black people never do any research." Montpelier Syndrome is often accompanied by a narcissistic belief that large swaths of the population owe one personal explanations for shit.

[Number23]

133. You nailed it, okasha.

[The Polack MSgt]

54. Well, just going by the tone

Here in DU, I couldn't imagine the Bernie supporters blaming POC for anything.

Well reasoned inclusive discussion is the consistent pattern of behavior they've displayed here.

Hi ChiTownKev - hope you're doing well.

[Number23]

134. Well played, Polack!

Well played.

[JustAnotherGen]

147. Well played sir! n/t

[fredamae]

55. No, of course not-not in my opinion

There is a certain bit of personal responsibility to inform oneself with facts about any candidate one might support and vote their preference.

In a nutshell...the only people I'll hold responsible if Dems (not one or the other) lose are those who refuse to vote.

[2pooped2pop]

58. probably

but not entirely.

[rogerashton]

65. Oh, h*** no.

Bernie's run has been such a longshot from the beginning. Do you blame somebody if you throw a four and then crap out?

All this talk about blame is anyway nonsense. We need to pull together and nominate and elect the best Democrat who is willing to run. I'm still not convinced that the leader in the polls is that best Democrat, but if she is nominated, this blame game can only help the Republicans. Please drop it and focus on getting a Democrat elected.

[Sheepshank]

70. in my case they will be cheered for not falling for the bullying and name calling. nt

[artislife]

71. This is just made up

As a Latina and Bernie supporter, I am appalled at this OP.

Stop spreading hate.

If I didn't know better, I would think you had an agenda here.

[Juicy_Bellows]

74. Off by one letter 'A' PAC not PoC - nt.

[artislife]

79. Less than a month here

No affiliations, no details in the bio



Interesting. If I were to notice patterns, I wonder what I would come up with.

[ibegurpard]

80. No clue

But Camp Weathervane sure is eating it up.

[artislife]

82. They always do, pershaps they invited this one in...nt

[MaggieD]

87. The better question is who won't they blame

And the only one they won't blame is Bernie himself. Count on it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

92. We are better than this...

Last I checked Hillary was leading among whites, just by not as much.

[Agnosticsherbet]

93. They will blame wall street banks for rigging the vote.

They will blame Clinton for a dirty campaign.

After that, who knows.

.

[mmonk]

103. If this gets me banned, there is little

justice here but your comments are asinine.

[Vattel]

104. I will blame everyone who votes for Clinton.

Why should I blame Sanders? I think he is running a good campaign. But he can only lead the horse to water. The voters decide whether to drink or not.

[DCBob]

109. The Bernsters are already blaming them.

Didn't you read the Stockholm syndrome thread?

[Rex]

110. I have no idea, but if they are then the blamers are pathetic people.

And a little bit sad.

[Empowerer]

111. If Bernie loses, it may be the fault of his own supporters

I like Bernie Sanders, but many of his supporters are utterly insufferable - not only are they doing little for his cause, they are actually driving people like me away from him.

[Number23]

136. Empowerer!! It's wonderful to see you again!

And I agree 187% with what you posted.

[joshcryer]

143. It won't be because of annoying internet "supporters."

Campaigns fail purely because of ground game. As a Dean supporter in 2004 I am fully and painfully aware of that. Yes the Dean scream was terrible, but the ground game was way worse and we didn't realize it. Obama used Dean's social media approach and Kerry's ground game approach to win; the caucuses were Obama's winning strategy, slow and steady, build the grassroots.

I've seen Sanders "supporters" on Reddit openly proclaiming that if he loses they'll vote for Trump if only because Trump refuses SuperPAC money and is at least "honest," even if they disagree with him.

These internet "supporters" are not supporters. I plan to bust my ass to get Sanders supporters to the caucuses. I still give us a long shot but at least I, in real life, not on drama infested internet forums with hateful shit being spewed, won't be one of the slacktavists.

[moobu2]

113. I doubt it.

Seems kind of far fetched.

[seabeyond]

114. I think that candidate that loses or wins gets to take credit for the results. Either way. Nt.

[Doctor_J]

118. If Hillary loses, will liberals be blamed?

Yours might be the most rancid and dishonest post by a hillarian yet this week. And the bar is really high on that. Congrats

[Fearless]

119. Seriously?

[GitRDun]

126. If Bernie loses it is his own fault

It's up to him to earn the votes. No one is responsible for just giving them to him.

[Cheese Sandwich]

129. Do Hillary supporters always act like they own black and brown voters?

Not always, no. Everybody is free to vote for whoever they want.

"Don't blame me, I voted for Bernie". That could become a popular bumper sticker some day.

Sanders does have significant support from black and brown people. We won't be to blame if he loses. Just people who don't vote for him.

[Joe Turner]

131. 3rd Way = Republican Lite Stale Thinking

[Fawke Em]

138. I won't.

I'll blame a lot of things, but I would never blame a voter.

However, I'll be taking a break from here because I won't support Clinton, so I won't be on here to say that, so I'm saying it in advance, should it happen.

[Scootaloo]

142. You mean like Hillary supporters did in 2008?

No.

[Major Hogwash]

152. Did they all vote for Obama in the GE after he beat Hillary in the primaries?

Is that why they are so pissed off 7 years later that she hasn't become the President yet?

[AgingAmerican]

144. If anyone throws the primary for Hillary

And she loses the general, then those who threw the primary for her will get what they deserve.

Does the corporate Third Way® own POC now?

[Kentonio]

145. Got to love this thread..

OP: Hey, I really hope that these people I don't like don't do something really horrible, because that would make them really terrible people.
Person 2: Yeah, it would be terrible if these people we don't like did this horrible thing, but I think they probably will because they're horrible.
Person 3: Yeah, this thing that hasn't happened just goes to show quite how horrible these people we don't like actually are.

[PowerToThePeople]

148. You have it wrong.

eom

[Gothmog]

149. Sanders has not really made a case that he is viable in general election

I think that the largest issue holding Sanders back is the fact that few people believe that he is viable in the general election. It is difficult to blame POC for this issue or defect. Many Democratic voters including African Americans view electability as a key issue http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/09/bernie_sanders_presidential_campaign_what_would_it_take_for_the_vermont.html

. For as much as black Americans might like his policy positions—which fit their enthusiasm for a stronger safety net—they’re also strategic voters, not ideological stalwarts. Electability is key, and as a consequence, they tend to back the establishment choice: Al Gore over Bill Bradley; John Kerry over John Edwards. On occasion, blacks will back a factional candidate, like Jesse Jackson in 1984 and 1988. But Jackson had the reverse problem—he couldn’t win enough whites.

Again, Sanders would have a stronger campaign if someone could provide a good explanation as to viability

[AgingAmerican]

157. Has Hillary made a case that she is viable in the general?

Please enlighten us...

Did Obama make that case during the primaries? Did Bill Clinton? Did Carter?

[JoePhilly]

188. Acually, Obama did, which is why he was able to beat Hillary.

Bernie has yet to do so.

[AgingAmerican]

190. Specifics please...

Hillary self destructed in 08

[notadmblnd]

151. Can you provide me the links to one of those

"If minorities knew about X,Y,Z regarding Hillary/Bernie, they would change their vote."

posts?

[99Forever]

159. Why not?

Progressives and "extreme leftists" will get blamed WHEN Hillary loses the GE. (If she makes it that far.)

[AgingAmerican]

166. If any Democratic group succeeds in sinking his campaign

...and she loses the general election, they will get exactly what they asked for, sadly. I will have sympathy for those whom they pretend to speak for, but I will have no sympathy whatsoever for those who carried it out. They will have made their beds, in which they will then have to sleep.

It will be over for voting rights, demilitarizing the police, and inner city manufacturing jobs.

IMHO, of course.

[99Forever]

168. I couldn't agree more.

The Scourged Earth attitude defines the entire Clinton campaign.

[TSIAS]

172. Did you support Prop 8?

It is a fact that African Americans supported its passage by the largest margin of any group.

I don't think opposition to gay marriage is really the centrist position anymore.

[McCamy Taylor]

173. This is the Democratic Party. Bernie will be blamed and called a "loser."

What is with this thread? Is this some attempt to shame voters into voting a certain way by suggesting that there will be a backlash that will make their already danger filled lives more dangerous still if they do not do as they are told? That is the way it reads to me. Why should anyone who has already been "blamed" for everything from the mortgage meltdown to the welfare state give a flying fuck about being blamed for a candidate's failure to win a nomination?

[Douglas Carpenter]

175. People do not help Hillary's campaign by pushing batshit crazy Donald Trump style memes like this

There was a time when fighting for equal rights for people of color was considered "far left"- using your rightwing terminology. Bernie was fighting for equal rights even then.

There is no constituency more committed to equal rights than Bernie supporters. There is no candidate who issue by issue as well as ideologically who is closer to the center of how most Democrats think whether white or people of color. But I guess issue oriented campaigns are a taboo these days. It is not just many people of color - to use your stereotype - but many white people as well who have been conditioned not to think in terms of issue by issue.

[RandySF]

176. Some will blame POC

Just as some blamed POC for Prop 8 passing in CA.

[orpupilofnature57]

177. I can't say what people will say, I will say Bernie won't blame anyone except for the same people

he's been blaming all along, MSM, Corporations, and their agents with government jobs who work only for 1% of the people. No sympathy pandering from Bernie or making Deals to avoid scrutiny of his actions as a Senator .

[jfern]

182. If Hillary loses the general election, "professional leftists" will be blamed

"Professional leftists" like those who dare oppose the Hillary/Rahm wing of the party and want justice for Laquan McDonald.

[Todays_Illusion]

186. I would say the propaganda blamed POC, not the people. It was a good way to create division

among Democratic voters and just because the pundits and noise said it doesn't mean that Democratic voters believed it. I don't believe AA were responsible for Prop 8, it was clearly the influence allowed to religious influence and illegal religious spending to influence the election. Not one so called news organization promoting the lie called for an investigation against the financial support visible for gaining that outcome.

[jalan48]

187. Far left?