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hill2016

(1,772 posts)
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:14 PM Nov 2015

Middle class is when you have to go to work

Upper class is when you can live off your investments and you don't have to work (you can choose to).

In some cities, $250k is hardly upper class. After taxes, you're left with about $150k.

Assuming mortgage or rental at $4 - 5k a month, that's easily another $50k gone.

With a couple of kids in private school ($20k / year), nanny, housekeeper, groceries, vacations, car, clothes, dining, etc. you're barely breaking even.

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Middle class is when you have to go to work (Original Post) hill2016 Nov 2015 OP
"In some cities, $250k is hardly upper class." Nice try. Wilms Nov 2015 #1
check out this article hill2016 Nov 2015 #6
Sounds like they don't belong in Manhattan? Wilms Nov 2015 #7
then hill2016 Nov 2015 #10
People who are in the upper 2%, of course. Wilms Nov 2015 #13
I live in Manhattan and my salary puts me in the middle class here. JaneyVee Nov 2015 #29
I'm appreciating the demographics of HRC supporters. n/t Wilms Nov 2015 #31
Lol. Middle class with a nanny, housekeeper and private schools. neverforget Nov 2015 #2
Wow angrychair Nov 2015 #3
Beat me to it. 6chars Nov 2015 #5
me too. 2naSalit Nov 2015 #33
assuming both parents are working hill2016 Nov 2015 #9
You do know that millions of actual middle class Warren Stupidity Nov 2015 #12
I was going to post something similar but you said it far better than me. neverforget Nov 2015 #14
ok hill2016 Nov 2015 #17
No live in nanny? Barbaric! nt Romulox Nov 2015 #19
Life's full of tough choices, innit? hill2016 Nov 2015 #24
Middle class people can't afford to do either of those things. You knew that, of course. nt Romulox Nov 2015 #25
ok, now I'm at least 60% sure you're putting us on. Warren DeMontague Dec 2015 #117
You sure are worried about those $250,000 earners of the upper few percent neverforget Nov 2015 #35
o know where the sarcasm button Is? angrychair Nov 2015 #34
I thjink you may be right. This could be one long performance piece Armstead Nov 2015 #45
Kind of like Billionaires for Bush nxylas Dec 2015 #73
I agree if not then neverforget Dec 2015 #65
"either trollng or performance art." Capt. Obvious Dec 2015 #83
Have you ever heard of day care? Hepburn Dec 2015 #100
Isn't that just about as expensive as a nanny? leftofcool Dec 2015 #119
Are you kidding me? A live in nanny for a middle class household? You must be out of your mind. Ed Suspicious Dec 2015 #110
Sarcasm tag missing? 6chars Nov 2015 #4
in hill2016 Nov 2015 #8
Ah, I see the optics problem here. sleepyvoter Nov 2015 #16
"maths" melman Dec 2015 #64
Should have been posted elsewhere-- Wilms Nov 2015 #11
Nanny, housekeeper, private schools, and vacations and the poor dears are barley breaking even??? Autumn Nov 2015 #15
Awesome parody post. Recommended! nt Romulox Nov 2015 #18
Damn, I must be low class. bobbobbins01 Nov 2015 #20
hm... hill2016 Nov 2015 #32
Its a regressive tax aimed at milking us low income folks. bobbobbins01 Nov 2015 #38
:D renate Dec 2015 #72
this right here: Hiraeth Nov 2015 #21
I agree taught_me_patience Nov 2015 #22
I have so far only seen you in two threads gollygee Nov 2015 #23
She also whines about paying taxes for others' college. Obvious parody account. nt Romulox Nov 2015 #26
WRONG. Middle class, the middle quintile, is $50K-$60K. $250,000 is upper 5%. Upper Class. Crystalite Nov 2015 #27
Yes. daleanime Nov 2015 #30
No.... daleanime Nov 2015 #28
Did you just say having a private school for kids, nanny, housekeeper...then said "you're barely... Bread and Circus Nov 2015 #36
Your math is laughably flawed; correct calculations show $250k is upper class for sure. JonLeibowitz Nov 2015 #37
yo hill2016 Nov 2015 #41
Good points. JonLeibowitz Nov 2015 #47
The median household income in Manhattan is $88,382. In San Francisco it hover around $75,000. Luminous Animal Nov 2015 #39
I am Kicking and Recommending this post because I think it's a fine example of what... Bread and Circus Nov 2015 #40
+1 darkangel218 Dec 2015 #79
For me it was this part... tazkcmo Dec 2015 #90
Talk about not dealing with reality. Hepburn Dec 2015 #101
+1000 n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2015 #128
Please tell my wife she's living off her investments... brooklynite Nov 2015 #42
There asre a lot of people who arre lucky to get hoime by 10 am.... Armstead Nov 2015 #44
Fair enough..but that's not what the OP is grumbling about... brooklynite Nov 2015 #46
I'm frankly not sure what the OP is grumbling about Armstead Nov 2015 #48
One way would be to not have kids... brooklynite Nov 2015 #49
Or we could stop condoning and supporting bad values and policires Armstead Nov 2015 #54
Maybe....but it's not per year neverforget Nov 2015 #55
But thank of how you could invest that money... brooklynite Dec 2015 #60
Aristocrats are so sensitive. Ed Suspicious Dec 2015 #112
Not in Brooklyn ibegurpard Dec 2015 #66
Sunset Park brooklynite Dec 2015 #82
Yeah all the articles written about Brooklyn gentrification ibegurpard Dec 2015 #93
Brooklyn’s Median Household Income Is Less Than $45,000 brooklynite Dec 2015 #94
Boro Park. sleepyvoter Dec 2015 #98
then you're middle class hill2016 Dec 2015 #62
Why do you keep peddling this connservative horseshit? Armstead Nov 2015 #43
LOL !!! - Our Base, Ladies And Gentlmen... WillyT Nov 2015 #50
$250k for a family RandySF Nov 2015 #51
let me cry for you w0nderer Nov 2015 #52
wtf is this shit?? lunasun Nov 2015 #53
This OP is simply doing their job. Hill's shills. morningfog Dec 2015 #104
I am undecided myself, but this poster maybe a Romney crossover to Hill with that myopic look lunasun Dec 2015 #120
Exactly. "Think of the children!... And their au pairs!" n/t lumberjack_jeff Dec 2015 #127
wait, is this an audition piece for the onion? restorefreedom Nov 2015 #56
Seriously are you trolling? ibegurpard Nov 2015 #57
And 5K dollars a month mortgage! darkangel218 Dec 2015 #81
So...in your world the working class doesn't exist? jeff47 Nov 2015 #58
Seriously Truprogressive85 Dec 2015 #59
Housekeeper, gardener, and private plane with pilot! Hepburn Dec 2015 #103
lol Truprogressive85 Dec 2015 #115
Kick for the necessities of life while working for a "middle class" wage of 250K. nt slipslidingaway Dec 2015 #61
If you don't need to go to into work, you can move somewhere cheaper jfern Dec 2015 #63
FUCK THAT , 150K is A LOT OF MONEY JI7 Dec 2015 #67
What a different world you live in! pinebox Dec 2015 #68
I disagree Kentonio Dec 2015 #74
$250K is five times the median household income in NYC Recursion Dec 2015 #69
Desperate elitist spin. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #70
I want to be poor where you live! Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #71
You mean this ISN'T a parody? Wow. reformist2 Dec 2015 #75
Comedy gold! merrily Dec 2015 #76
Kicking for the sheer mind numbing tone-deafness of "Hil" and her supporters. Bonobo Dec 2015 #77
"Mortgage 4K - 5K a month"??? darkangel218 Dec 2015 #78
having a nanny and private schools treestar Dec 2015 #80
Where did you find that psychotic definition of "middle class"? Half-Century Man Dec 2015 #84
Latte spew! Hepburn Dec 2015 #106
That youtube. Whoa. Crystalite Dec 2015 #113
That video has been in several threads Mnpaul Dec 2015 #121
Lol! beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #85
Ah ha! Capt. Obvious Dec 2015 #88
LMAO! beam me up scottie Dec 2015 #91
lol tazkcmo Dec 2015 #86
Kick for the lulz and fail! darkangel218 Dec 2015 #87
Your post is sarcasm, right??? Vinca Dec 2015 #89
sorry I meant hill2016 Dec 2015 #97
Yeah right. morningfog Dec 2015 #107
LMAO! Hepburn Dec 2015 #109
"a fortnight"? panader0 Dec 2015 #125
On today's episode of Manhattan Middle Class Problems . . . . Jake Stern Dec 2015 #92
Looks like another one made it past mirt PowerToThePeople Dec 2015 #95
my views hill2016 Dec 2015 #96
You live in New York, right? sleepyvoter Dec 2015 #99
No, yours are in line with the powers that be. morningfog Dec 2015 #108
From your link Hepburn Dec 2015 #111
Totally agree.this is either a troll or a shill. morningfog Dec 2015 #105
Incredibly out of touch and tone deaf OP. morningfog Dec 2015 #102
Barely breaking even at 250K per annum, still pondering that thought, even in NYC ... slipslidingaway Dec 2015 #114
THE ROMNEYS HAVE A CAR ELEVATOR BUT ALL I COULD AFFORD WAS THE CAR ESCALATOR! Warren DeMontague Dec 2015 #118
LOL and you can see why the elevator is so important! n/t slipslidingaway Dec 2015 #123
you don't understand the cost of living hill2016 Dec 2015 #131
Well I have a clue, I lived there for over a year while my husband underwent two ... slipslidingaway Dec 2015 #132
I love it when Manhattanites try to prove they don't live in a bubble. Warren DeMontague Dec 2015 #116
What about Brooklyites? Bonobo Dec 2015 #124
Manhattan is still hill2016 Jan 2016 #133
well of course and with the stress of servants demanding such high salaries these days 250K per year Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #122
People on Wall Street work long hours. Social Security Retirees don't. Bad definition, bad. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2015 #126
ok hill2016 Dec 2015 #129
bump hill2016 Dec 2015 #130
If I win a quater million dollar lottery, I'm retiring. stone space Jan 2016 #134
 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
6. check out this article
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:38 PM
Nov 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/realestate/what-is-middle-class-in-manhattan.html

But if you are defining middle class by lifestyle, to accommodate the cost of living in Manhattan, that salary would have to fall between $80,000 and $235,000. This means someone making $70,000 a year in other parts of the country would need to make $166,000 in Manhattan to enjoy the same purchasing power.
 

Wilms

(26,795 posts)
7. Sounds like they don't belong in Manhattan?
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:42 PM
Nov 2015

There are areas nearby nowhere near as costly.



The Times calculator I posted says $250,000 puts one in the upper 3% or 4%.

 

Wilms

(26,795 posts)
13. People who are in the upper 2%, of course.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:51 PM
Nov 2015

And people who are making $250K and are willing to stop whining about it.

And there are plenty of places more affordable in the metro area.

neverforget

(9,432 posts)
2. Lol. Middle class with a nanny, housekeeper and private schools.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:33 PM
Nov 2015

You have a strange definition of who is in the middle class

angrychair

(8,386 posts)
3. Wow
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:36 PM
Nov 2015

I think your thing is broken.
"Private school"? Or "nanny"? I assume you are joking. I don't give two shits if some couple doesn't have a nanny or cannot send their kids to Private school.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
9. assuming both parents are working
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:45 PM
Nov 2015

they would need a live-in nanny.

If this couple was upper-class, they wouldn't need to work, would they?

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
12. You do know that millions of actual middle class
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:50 PM
Nov 2015

families manage to have two working parents and zero nannies, right? They have no choice. What bubble of privilege are you posting from?

neverforget

(9,432 posts)
14. I was going to post something similar but you said it far better than me.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:53 PM
Nov 2015

My wife and I managed to do it. So have my parents, brothers, sister, friends, my in-laws, my cousins, co-workers........I guess we did it wrong.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
17. ok
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:57 PM
Nov 2015

maybe not a live-in nanny but a part-time babysitter.

They probably can't afford a live-in nanny anyway on $250k.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
24. Life's full of tough choices, innit?
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:11 PM
Nov 2015

if you want to send your kids to private school you might not be able to afford a live-in nanny.

angrychair

(8,386 posts)
34. o know where the sarcasm button Is?
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:31 PM
Nov 2015

I still think this is either trollng or performance art.

"assuming both parents are working
they would need a live-in nanny."

Said millions of two income families never. Its called a daycare center or a friend's teen-aged child. Or a latchkey kid, worked for me at 11 years old.
Second, there are a lot of millionaires that both work.
According to a report issued by the SSA about a month ago, 51% of income earners earn less than $30,000 a year. 71% of income earners earn less $50,000 a year.
.08% (yes, point zero eight percent) of income earners earn (take) 53% of all wages earned in America.

A household income of $250,000 a year puts you in the top 3% of income earners in America.

Hepburn

(21,054 posts)
100. Have you ever heard of day care?
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:14 PM
Dec 2015

That is what is used by most middle income families for child care when both parents work.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
119. Isn't that just about as expensive as a nanny?
Wed Dec 2, 2015, 06:30 AM
Dec 2015

I have no idea what day care runs these days but I have a feeling a good one is pretty high.

Ed Suspicious

(8,879 posts)
110. Are you kidding me? A live in nanny for a middle class household? You must be out of your mind.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:38 PM
Dec 2015

If that's how the middle class is living these days, I'm not even close.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
4. Sarcasm tag missing?
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:36 PM
Nov 2015

Million dollar plus home, private schools, nanny, housekeeper, dining (not at Olive Garden, I'm guessing), vacations (cruises? Europe in the summer, Mexico in the winter, skiing in the spring). It is starting to sound a little like upper class to me. True, at this level you still have to pay for hotels instead of owning a home in each vacation spot.

Middle class: 400 sq ft of home per person or so, PUBLIC schools, daycare or after school program, keep your own house, vacations and fancy dining only if you are well past breaking even.

I guess what you see depends on where you sit. Or stand.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
8. in
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:44 PM
Nov 2015

Manhattan a million dollar plus home buys you less than 1000 sq ft.

Do the maths please.

Like I said, $150k take-home. Rental of about $50k a year. That's left with $100k.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/realestate/what-is-middle-class-in-manhattan.html

But if you are defining middle class by lifestyle, to accommodate the cost of living in Manhattan, that salary would have to fall between $80,000 and $235,000. This means someone making $70,000 a year in other parts of the country would need to make $166,000 in Manhattan to enjoy the same purchasing power.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/nyregion/scraping-the-40000-ceiling-at-new-york-city-private-schools.html?_r=1&ref=education


Indeed, this year’s tuition at Columbia Grammar and Preparatory ($38,340 for 12th grade) and Horace Mann ($37,275 for the upper school) is higher than Harvard’s ($36,305). Those 41 schools (out of 61 New York City private schools in the national association) provided enough data to enable a 10-year analysis. (Over all, inflation caused prices in general to rise 27 percent over the past decade.)

 

sleepyvoter

(42 posts)
16. Ah, I see the optics problem here.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:55 PM
Nov 2015

The problem is, that you *PROBABLY* don't live outside Manhattan, and have no idea what $250,000 means here, or there.

In fact, $250,000 is a 1% type of job. You could easily buy a McMansion and live on it in my city with a mortgage and still buy two cars and a vacation to Europe once a year.

I have a job that doesn't pay me what it should be paying, but I'm grateful that I have a job that I'm proud of on principles. I make my clients happy, and when they're happy they're paying my monthly bills.

Autumn

(44,543 posts)
15. Nanny, housekeeper, private schools, and vacations and the poor dears are barley breaking even???
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 08:54 PM
Nov 2015

My heart breaks for them. I hope they didn't have to cut back from fine dining to Taco Bell, That would be a horror to awful to contemplate.

bobbobbins01

(1,681 posts)
20. Damn, I must be low class.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:04 PM
Nov 2015

After summering on the Riviera I hardly had enough gas money left to sail my 3rd yacht back to the Hamptons. These are tough times.

bobbobbins01

(1,681 posts)
38. Its a regressive tax aimed at milking us low income folks.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:41 PM
Nov 2015

First they came for the yachts and I only had 3, so I said nothing.

Hiraeth

(4,805 posts)
21. this right here:
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:06 PM
Nov 2015
With a couple of kids in private school ($20k / year), nanny, housekeeper, groceries, vacations, car, clothes, dining, etc. you're barely breaking even.



cry me a river.

maybe that could be called Upper Middle Class but, not Middle Class and definitely NOT Lower Middle Class.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
23. I have so far only seen you in two threads
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:10 PM
Nov 2015

In one, you talk about how sometimes it might be in a child's best interest to have visitation with a rapist father.

And now you're saying people are middle class unless they can easily afford sending their kids to pricy private schools, having a housekeeper and live-in nanny, expensive dining out, and multiple vacations a year.

 

Crystalite

(164 posts)
27. WRONG. Middle class, the middle quintile, is $50K-$60K. $250,000 is upper 5%. Upper Class.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:14 PM
Nov 2015

[font size=15]Sick of this bullshit.[/font size]



Bread and Circus

(9,454 posts)
36. Did you just say having a private school for kids, nanny, housekeeper...then said "you're barely...
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:38 PM
Nov 2015

breaking even"?

And a mortage $4 to $5 K a month?

Don't you see how out of touch what you are saying really is?

You do know a lot of people can't even afford a $400 mortgage, right?



JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
37. Your math is laughably flawed; correct calculations show $250k is upper class for sure.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:41 PM
Nov 2015

Assume $250k gross pay. Retirement: 401k/IRA contributions of 15% (pre-tax) is $37.5k. Your pre-tax income is now $212.5k.

Assume that you have a $900k house which gets you to a $4560/mo (close to your midway point). mortgage @ 30 yrs, 4.5% FRM. Your mortgage tax deduction is then $54720 on a mortgage cost of $54720 (since your home is under the $1MM limit). If you are MFJ with 2 kids (deductions) then you are in the 25% tax bracket.

Your deduction is $70270. Taxable income is $141780. Total Federal tax liability is $27k.

Now let's take state taxes. Suppose 6% effective tax (I think this is reasonable, remember that some states charge no tax; also marginal rates help you and there are mortgage & child deductions most places anyway): $12750.

Your final take home pay is then: $172717. Now pay your mortgage: you have $117k disposable income. 2x kids private school = $40,000. Average nanny cost: $705/wk. = $36660/yr. It isn't clear that you would need a nanny for more than 5-7 years though. Also most of a child's time in school has no overlap with nanny care. I am giving you a lot of leeway here. You now have $41337 / yr. left to spend on groceries, vacations, car, dining. I ignored housekeeper since nobody considers that a feature that middle class families spend on. So you have ~$3500/mo. for cars, vacations, car, dining.

My point? 66% of Americans' gross pay is less than $41k, the leftover money for groceries, vacations, car, dining.

No reasonable calculation leads to considering $250k a middle class family.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
41. yo
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:55 PM
Nov 2015

you can only deduct the mortgage INTEREST not the full mortgage payment a year.

2 kids = EXEMPTIONS not deductions.

In any case if you have $70k of deductions you would start thinking about the AMT.

In NY, state + city = 10%.

Let's try again?

JonLeibowitz

(6,282 posts)
47. Good points.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:15 PM
Nov 2015

Most states, 49/50 are not NY. You also assume you are working in NYC, one of the most expensive cities in the US. I have given you enormous leeway with some calculations, let's not take worst case scenario in every area.

I did the tax exemption math properly for kids, just used wrong language. You are free to check it yourself.

As for interest: true, I screwed up the math on that. Approximately 45% of the mortgage amortized over the lifetime of the mortgage will be interest (though different at different parts of the mortgage, but we'll ignore that). That means your deduction is only $24624, with a federal tax liability of $35177. So your disposable income is now $33193. That is still a ton of money.

Do you really actually think $250k is middle class?

edit: I have been showing that it is still possible to live what most would consider an upper class life on $250k. Middle class doesn't include private school and a $900k house. Very few people would call that middle class.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
39. The median household income in Manhattan is $88,382. In San Francisco it hover around $75,000.
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:46 PM
Nov 2015

Don't feed me this bullshit. People who make 3 times that much are NOT middle class. They are rich whether they are working for it or not.

Bread and Circus

(9,454 posts)
40. I am Kicking and Recommending this post because I think it's a fine example of what...
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 09:48 PM
Nov 2015

we are up against.

I think everyone needs to read the OP and contemplate the mentality of the faux liberal elite that runs this party and how preposterous it really is.

tazkcmo

(7,258 posts)
90. For me it was this part...
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:16 AM
Dec 2015

"With a couple of kids in private school ($20k / year), nanny, housekeeper, groceries, vacations, car, clothes, dining, etc. you're barely breaking even."

Hepburn

(21,054 posts)
101. Talk about not dealing with reality.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:19 PM
Dec 2015

The OP is sad, just plain sad: $250K/year is middle income... Right...sure...I gotta bridge!

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
44. There asre a lot of people who arre lucky to get hoime by 10 am....
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:09 PM
Nov 2015

after working their second job to make ends meet.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
48. I'm frankly not sure what the OP is grumbling about
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:20 PM
Nov 2015

I think I could find a way to scrape by on $250,000 a year if I tried really hard.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
54. Or we could stop condoning and supporting bad values and policires
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:38 PM
Nov 2015

We have created an environment where jobs to support a basically secure and comfortable (buty not lavish) life are disappearing, and living costs are being driven upward by the people who are eliminating or down scaling those jobs while they make out better and better.

The problem is not the 99 percent versus the 1 percent. It's more like the 25 percent versus the 75 percent. We're gentrifying more and more places, while taking away the ability of average people to afford to live there.

But maybe, as the elite managerial class sees their own jobs being eliminated or down scaled and they fall into the 75 percent, we might someday return to an economy of balance and a return of a sense of the common good.


brooklynite

(93,162 posts)
60. But thank of how you could invest that money...
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 12:19 AM
Dec 2015

...oops, the OP thinks investments are a bad thing, apparently.

brooklynite

(93,162 posts)
82. Sunset Park
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 07:25 AM
Dec 2015

Last edited Tue Dec 1, 2015, 11:06 AM - Edit history (1)



East New York



Brighton Beach



Red Hook



I don't mind stereotypes; I mind lazy ones...

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
93. Yeah all the articles written about Brooklyn gentrification
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 10:56 AM
Dec 2015

Are just lazy stereotypes right? Was Spike Lee making lazy stereotypes in his anti-gentrification rant from almost 4 YEARS AGO?

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
43. Why do you keep peddling this connservative horseshit?
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:07 PM
Nov 2015

$4,000 - $5000 month in rent?Nanny, private school?

Yeah I guess if you pick the highest rent districts in the most expensive cities you got a point.

Jeezum H. Krikerds. Where I live (which is somewhat off the beaten path but not Siberia) there are many working people struggling to pay $900 a month rent.

Oh my God. Might have to cancel the European vacation next year.

w0nderer

(1,937 posts)
52. let me cry for you
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:36 PM
Nov 2015

9.50$/H
FOR 10 hours

a couple of hours more at 8-9 dollars per hour


waaaaaah waaaaaah i feel so sorry i'm really omigod sad for you



this is called working poor!

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
53. wtf is this shit??
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 10:36 PM
Nov 2015

kids in private school ($20k / year), nanny, housekeeper, groceries, vacations, car, clothes, dining, etc. you're barely breaking even

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
120. I am undecided myself, but this poster maybe a Romney crossover to Hill with that myopic look
Wed Dec 2, 2015, 02:12 PM
Dec 2015

So oblivious to what life is like on an average middle class salary
Isolated or trolling , either way barf inducing

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
56. wait, is this an audition piece for the onion?
Mon Nov 30, 2015, 11:05 PM
Nov 2015

cuz if not....

250k with nannies and private school is middle???





Truprogressive85

(900 posts)
59. Seriously
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 12:09 AM
Dec 2015

Did you forget the driver , chef , yoga instructor ,and botox sessions as well

Not sure if this is an attempt at trolling but "barley breaking even " is not a term I would ever use when it comes to someone making 250k


jfern

(5,204 posts)
63. If you don't need to go to into work, you can move somewhere cheaper
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:14 AM
Dec 2015

And if you afford blow $20k a year on each of multiple kids for private school, and have a nanny and housekeeper, you're certainly not middle class.

JI7

(89,084 posts)
67. FUCK THAT , 150K is A LOT OF MONEY
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:24 AM
Dec 2015

it's easy to live a good life on that amount. the problem is people who make that amount see themselves as being on the same level as multimillionaires and want all the extra crap they pay for .

one can easy get a nice house, health care, public or private school, multiple vehicles and vacations on that money.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
68. What a different world you live in!
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 02:15 AM
Dec 2015

Cry me a river, I can't afford private school for my kids anymore on my $250k salary!
People are going hungry who WORK 40/hrs a week in this country and you're talking about $250,000 a year like it's the damn poor house?
Really? REALLY?!

I nominate this for worst thread ever on DU.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
69. $250K is five times the median household income in NYC
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:35 AM
Dec 2015

This is an argument that really needs to just die. "Sure, it's objectively a lot of money, but there's so little left of it after I spend most of it!"

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
70. Desperate elitist spin.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 03:45 AM
Dec 2015

And you are in unsavory company: FOX news business anchor Tracy Burns made the same argument to defend Mitt Romney's platform in 2012.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
75. You mean this ISN'T a parody? Wow.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 06:26 AM
Dec 2015

I didn't know the middle class sent their kids to private schools, had nannies, housekeepers, and paid $60,000 a year in housing costs...

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
77. Kicking for the sheer mind numbing tone-deafness of "Hil" and her supporters.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 06:29 AM
Dec 2015

It's a fucking hoot but thanks for making it real clear the reason that we see such a vicious response to calls for economic justice.

Even so, using black people as a cover to attack economic justice (as has been done over and over) for avaricious motives is sickening to say the least.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
84. Where did you find that psychotic definition of "middle class"?
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 07:56 AM
Dec 2015
Upper class is when you can live off your investments and you don't have to work (you can choose to)

Scrawled above the urinal at the country club?







A more accurate way to define "middle class" is to use those persons falling within the middle percentile bracket of income. Those at 40%-60%.


 

Crystalite

(164 posts)
113. That youtube. Whoa.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 10:00 PM
Dec 2015

Needs to be it's own OP in GD...

Or in GDP as long as it makes a reference to the Democratic Primary candidates.

This is what Sanders is talking about.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
97. sorry I meant
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:09 PM
Dec 2015

housekeeper who comes by once a week or once a fortnight, not a live-in housekeeper.

It's actually quite common. In my building forum I see requests for a recommendation once in a while. And my building is mainly people in their 20s and 30s, young professionals not trust fund babies.


I am looking for a really good cleaning lady. I was wondering if anyone in the building has a person they use and would highly recommend?

Hepburn

(21,054 posts)
109. LMAO!
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:27 PM
Dec 2015

You don't know it takes state action to have a First Amendment issue, but you are looking for a really good cleaning lady!?!?!?!?! I say spend your time learning about the U.S. Constitution and then worry about cleaning out your house!

OMG........the irony!

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
92. On today's episode of Manhattan Middle Class Problems . . . .
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 10:36 AM
Dec 2015

"Children, we simply MUST tighten our belts! I know it is almost too much to bear being seen taking your lunch to school but, sadly, it must be done. We might even have to let the nanny go! Don't cry Skylar!"

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
96. my views
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 01:04 PM
Dec 2015

align with mainstream Democrats, including President Obama's

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/are-you-middle-class/

President Obama has resolutely insisted ever since he was on the campaign trail that families with income below $250,000 were middle class in his book. And when you're President and say that often enough, it becomes the framing mechanism for the entire debate. Until you start to lose your mojo on Capitol Hill that is. Even before the mid-term elections, a few Democrats started floating $500,000 as a better cut-off for the middle class that would be spared a tax hike. Then just this week, a cadre of Democrats no doubt still stinging from their shellacking in the mid-terms have decided that the Bush tax cuts should be extended for families with income below $1 million. At that level, the Dems figure they will have an easier time getting a deal with the newly empowered Republicans.
 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
108. No, yours are in line with the powers that be.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:26 PM
Dec 2015

Not with the mainstream. You are doing their bidding. And you do it poorly. Go join an elitist support group. You ain't mainstream anything.

Hepburn

(21,054 posts)
111. From your link
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:39 PM
Dec 2015

Here is what is considered middle class:

According to the Census Bureau, median household income in 2009 was $49,084. Before any coastal dwellers start yelping, let's take a look at regional differences:

Median Household Income

West: $53,833
Northeast: $53,073
Midwest: $48,877
South: $45,615


Not anywhere near to $250K. Unbelievable!
 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
102. Incredibly out of touch and tone deaf OP.
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 08:20 PM
Dec 2015

You either are full of shit and don't believe what you typed and are simply following the shitty script you've been dealt.

OR

You are really that out of touch with the middle and true working class.

Either way, get a grip on reality.

slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
114. Barely breaking even at 250K per annum, still pondering that thought, even in NYC ...
Tue Dec 1, 2015, 10:02 PM
Dec 2015

guess when you factor in a nanny instead of daycare and "need" a housekeeper, vacations etc.

These are not necessities ... money can buy conveniences that are not necessarily needed.

There is such a disparity between what is 'needed' and what is convenient.





slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
132. Well I have a clue, I lived there for over a year while my husband underwent two ...
Mon Dec 28, 2015, 11:48 PM
Dec 2015

allogeneic bone marrow transplants at Sloan Kettering. I also worked in the city years ago, but commuted home to NJ.







Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
122. well of course and with the stress of servants demanding such high salaries these days 250K per year
Wed Dec 2, 2015, 08:24 PM
Dec 2015

is chicken feed - and those private schools and nannies - don't even get me started.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
126. People on Wall Street work long hours. Social Security Retirees don't. Bad definition, bad.
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 11:15 AM
Dec 2015

But this is the reason Hillary's winning the nomination... and to hell with the general election.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
129. ok
Thu Dec 3, 2015, 07:49 PM
Dec 2015

I've checked around

Private school is closer to $30k+ a year.
Part-time nanny is about $30k a year as well.

 

stone space

(6,498 posts)
134. If I win a quater million dollar lottery, I'm retiring.
Sun Jan 17, 2016, 01:29 PM
Jan 2016

I'm turning 59 next month, and in 6 years I'll be 65.

A quarter million dollars is more than my wife and I will make together for the rest of our lives.

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