2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders’s one-dimensional campaign is hurting him badly
Sanders is -- sorry Sanders people! -- surprisingly one-dimensional as a candidate. When he is talking about the differences between the haves and the have nots, about the need for more economic fairness, why we need to reform the campaign finance system or work to address global warming, he is terrific. When he is talking about anything else, he is, um, not.
Sanders built a movement in the early days of the race on the passion he exudes from every pore when talking about economic inequality. The contrast between Sanders's "people powered" campaign and the top heavy, corporate feel of Hillary Clinton's effort was striking. And, Sanders is, without question, closer to the true heart of the Democratic party than Clinton on the vast majority of domestic issues.
The problem for Sanders is that external events changed the conversation in the race and he has been unwilling or unable to change with it. Talking about economic inequality in the midst of a national debate about gun control and national security won't lose Sanders the ardent supporters he already has. But, it will badly hamstring his ability to grow beyond the supporters he already has in what is, essentially, a one-on-one race with Clinton at the moment. (Sorry Martin O'Malley!)
For Democrats looking for a candidate who can stand up to the almost-inevitable Republican charge that the party of Obama is both unaware of the full scope of the fight against terror and unwilling to do what it takes to win that conflict, Sanders has done virtually nothing to convince people he can be that guy.....Sanders has shown little ability or inclination to grow beyond his pet issue set. And, as a result, his campaign's challenge to Clinton has stalled.
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Response to MADem (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)What a bunch of worthless twaddle that hit, er opinion piece was.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)
Cha
(319,073 posts)
tecelote
(5,156 posts)Staying on message is Marketing 101.
Go back to the think tank and come up with something real.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)people such as himself, aka truth-tellers, tend to function as a sort of mirror whereby small minded people looking at him see only small things, small ideas....ie themselves.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 8, 2015, 07:15 AM - Edit history (1)
"Oh look, he won't play our terror game! He's a looser!'
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I guess it beats discussing the issues.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)We just don't elect presidents in this country who only seem to have a full grasp of one issue. And that is how he comes off.
Response to MADem (Original post)
Post removed
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)How many Rethugs would say this about Elizabeth Warren:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1057414
Or support President Obama like this?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1102&pid=29860
How many Rethugs are pro-choice? How many are pro-environment? Pro-union? Pro-BLM?
Your post is the laughable one, not MADem's.
treestar
(82,383 posts)if they can't tell a Republican from a Democrat, they need to learn more.
I wish DU as a unit could get past the "Shoot the messenger" attitudes we see too much of, of late.
I can only dream, I guess!!
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)Cha
(319,073 posts)Divernan
(15,480 posts)The Dude abideth, and so does Bernie!
MADem
(135,425 posts)I thought he made some interesting points. You're free to prove them wrong--I don't mind if you do.
BlueMTexpat
(15,690 posts)but this is indeed a problem for Bernie, IMO.
Bernie's supporters are indeed passionate for their guy and should be. But peeling away Clinton supporters en masse just isn't going to happen for him. The more his supporters attack Clinton with tired RW TPs, the more the wagons are circled.
I chuckle when his supporters call for more debates. After each of the first two debates, Clinton actually gained support. IMO, that trend will continue. Bring 'em on!
Hillary is not perfect. Far from it. But to her supporters - and I am among them - she is the most comprehensively qualified candidate in the Dem race. Martin O'Malley is the second most comprehensively qualified, IMO, despite his low polling numbers so far.
oasis
(53,693 posts)
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Some Americans have lost sight of just what it is a government is supposed to do.
Latest meme of the moment.
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)9/11 AND Wall Street .
peacebird
(14,195 posts)It is 'her turn' after all.
dmosh42
(2,217 posts)They have no ideas about doing anything positive, so it's always easier to criticize everything, and take the hardline on foreign issues. They and their families will never be on the frontlines in war time, so what's the consequences? Bernie is focusing on issues that will dramatically improve middle & lower level people, but the real issue is will these people show up to vote!
jmowreader
(53,194 posts)This is their stump speech:
dmosh42
(2,217 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)inappropriate, and juvenile as hell:
My wife used to refer to Cilliza as "corn-teeth."
Some great comments at the link!
Omaha Steve
(109,228 posts)As for this article..
reformist2
(9,841 posts)
deutsey
(20,166 posts)is what is hurting us, imo.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Who will post it tomorrow?
LuvNewcastle
(17,821 posts)
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)MSM at it again. All 6 owners of MSM are committed to limiting his exposure and shutting him down. And they've done a pretty good job so far.
Bernie is dead serious about his campaign, our country, every policy, and every last person in it.
This article is a result of such MSM bullshit.
Geronimoe
(1,539 posts)He looks well grounded in his core principles.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Yep, I can see it.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)That's okay though because journalistic integrity is dead.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Google. You'll see.
The problem is that the press secretary tried to boss the gaggle around, and tell them what they were allowed to ask about.
That's what caused this kerfluffle--not "Chris Cillizza" who merely reported on it.
If George Bush's press secretary tried to tell reporters what they were "allowed" to ask about, DU would collectively toss a shitfit.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)since it's a popular opinion it must be true.
Response to MADem (Original post)
Post removed
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big
Ideas in a Bruising Workplace
The company is conducting an experiment in how far it can push
white-collar workers to get them to achieve its ever-expanding ambitions.
SEATTLE — On Monday mornings, fresh recruits line up for an orientation intended to catapult them into Amazon’s singular way of working.
They are told to forget the “poor habits” they learned at previous jobs, one employee recalled. When they “hit the wall” from the unrelenting pace, there is only one solution: “Climb the wall,” others reported. To be the best Amazonians they can be, they should be guided by the leadership principles, 14 rules inscribed on handy laminated cards. When quizzed days later, those with perfect scores earn a virtual award proclaiming, “I’m Peculiar” — the company’s proud phrase for overturning workplace conventions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html?_r=0
Jeff Bezos nice guy indeed, hates workers and Bernie supports workers hmmmm hit piece???
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)And while he may occasionally talk about more than one issue he really doesn't seem to have a full grasp of any other issue.
Cha
(319,073 posts)
RSF http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=885920
Smart guy our President Obama~
treestar
(82,383 posts)because his polls look numerically like President Obama's vs. Hillary at the same time.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...here is the 2nd one I found when I went there:
8:52 PM PST
I believe Bernie Sanders is correct in keeping the focus on what most affects most Americans. I am a former hostage to terrorists. Senator Sanders and I both take terrorism very seriously. But only a nation that is strong in and of itself will be able to effectively combat terrorism from within and without in the long run. Unfortunately, terrorism is waved as a "bloody shirt" to justify endless and often questionable military expenditures and continuing American involvement in quagmires abroad. Also, I wonder what the mainstream media are drinking when they go on claiming Sanders' campaign has stalled. I've never seen so much enthusiasm and willingness to self-organize and volunteer, not in almost fifty years of observing and participating in the political process. The numbers are growing daily. But of course, Sanders is the only candidate who's not co-opted or bought. Scary for the powers that be. Which is also why his popularity is growing by leaps and bounds.
I looked through about 40 comments or so, and of those there may have been 2 that agreed with Cillizza.
On edit:
Still looking through the comments (the vast, vast majority of which are critical of Cillizza's piece) and came across this one:
3:42 AM PST
"You will each have one minute for an opening statement to share your thoughts about the attacks in your Paris and lay out your visions for America. First, Senator Sanders" the additional starts with a falsehood, he was also asked to introduce his vision. The author sucks at his job. Unless his job is biased journalism.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Every major media outlet covered this--ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, and many major newspapers too.
Here's the problem--it's not Cillizza. It's not Sanders.
It's a not ready for prime time press secretary who thinks she can tell the press what they're "allowed" to ask about.
The question asked was NOT about ISIS.
It was about why the press secretary said "Don't ask about ISIS."
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...which is that the vast, vast majority of the 400+ comments on that article are are supportive of Bernie's position.
The fact that "Every major media outlet covered this" and yet still, when Cillizza posts his op-ed, the comments are about 95%+ in Bernie's favor, is something that I find encouraging. It means a lot of people out there are forming their own opinions rather than accepting what is spoon fed to them by the establishment media.
His press secretary is just fine. You would have her ignore the request from their hosts to ask the press to please focus only on their issues during this event. Because as we all know, those issues are secondary. And as we all know, nothing says "respect" like ignoring reasonable requests from your host organization.
MADem
(135,425 posts)His press secretary fucked up. You don't DO that--tell the reporters what they can/can't ask about--it's like pleading for them to do just that. She wasn't joking, she was dead serious. And she got pushback for it.
She did not help her candidate, and I'm sure it wasn't deliberate. She just doesn't have experience sufficient to run a national campaign. And it is showing. She's the one who trashed that event, not "rude reporters."
Don't give me "reasonable requests from your host blah blah." Please. That sounds like propaganda to me. Bring in the compliant press and let them take happy notes, like good scribes?
Reporters WILL ask the hot topic questions of the day, and if the principal doesn't like it, he can always make the decision to simply NOT TAKE QUESTIONS. It can be done. Alternatively, the PRINCIPAL could say "I'll talk to you about that AFTER this press availability" and go to the next question. But you just DON'T have your PAO do your dirty work for you like that. It comes off poorly. If she didn't just get "overeager," and someone actually told her to issue those "orders" then the campaign has structural problems. That's a separate issue, if that's the case.
If Ari Fleischer told a gaggle of reporters what they were "allowed" to ask George Bush, this place would explode with rage. Goose, gander, and all that.
What it looks like is that the press secretary messed up. She won't make that mistake again.
The thing is, a national campaign is NOT the place to learn these basics. She needs someone with more experience helping her, because she's not very effective in handling these guys. They can be jerks, but they aren't going to play nice "Because Bernie" or "Because Bernie has a newbie PreSec."
Another missed opportunity.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)And what difference does it make?
I'll bet you wouldn't be dismissing them if they were weighted as heavily in favor of your preferred narrative.
Yes, the mainstream media reports painted it as you say (without talking about the press secretary). But a lot of people, apparently, aren't buying it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)They're famous for posting a link to a poll and sending fans out to click.
The difference that it makes is that it isn't real. I can write ten angry posts favoring or opposing any candidate I'd like, that look like they're from ten distinct angry people. Thing is, there's only one of me to show up to vote.
There's a reason why Bernie Sanders wasn't in the top eight finalists of that TIME Person of the Year poll. People aren't stupid--they can tell when a vast number of the referrals to their voting page are coming from the same place.
You can think whatever you'd like about the whys and wherefores. Sanders isn't growing his base, and that's a problem for him. And his supporters, the surly ones most particularly, aren't helping, either.
Liberal_Dog
(11,075 posts)Apparently, you have no idea.
On of the main things that a Press Secretary does is set parameters for the press.
Seriously, where do you get the idea the reporters can't be told what they can ask about? It happens all the time.
Ever watch an actual press conference or availability? Before it starts, the Press Secretary will get up there and say, "We are here to discuss X. We will not take questions about Y or Z or any other topic.".
Jeez, I have seen that so many times I have lost count. Athletes, celebrities and politicians all tell the press what they are allowed to ask.
If The Sanders Campaign did not want to answer questions about ISIS at that event, it was Symone Sanders' job to notify the press of that. She did. If the reporters want to get in a snit, then that really is not her fault.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I have a VERY good idea what a Press Secretary does, thanks SO much!
I guess because I have no idea, that's why CNN specifically said that her request was out of bounds/over the line.
Please.
I think you're the one who needs to do a little homework on what a press secretary does, and doesn't do.
She abused her "authoriteh" and it bit her in the ass.
Here's a link to "explain" to you what she did wrong:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/08/politics/sanders-spokeswoman-isis-ask-baltimore-press/index.html
The money quote:
Symone Sanders, Sanders' spokeswoman, walked into a press conference room shortly before the senator wrapped up a roundtable on urban poverty and Black Lives Matters. After outlining the topics that the group spoke about, Symone Sanders said, "Don't ask about ISIS today."
Press aides regularly outline the topic of meetings, but it is unusual for them to outline what questions reporters can and can't ask.
The refrain came at an inopportune time for Sanders, too. After inspiring the terrorist attacks abroad and more recently in the U.S. in San Bernardino, ISIS has dramatically altered the 2016 campaign to be more focused on foreign policy and terror.
And Sanders has been forced to defend the fact that his campaign routinely focuses solely on economic issues, including framing questions about foreign policy, terrorism and other issues as a by-product of economic inequality.
Sanders did just that during the press conference when reporters were asked not to ask about ISIS.
I think you're the one who has "no idea" (to quote you) here. If Ari Fleischer tried to tell the gaggle at the White House what they were "allowed" to ask Porgie Bush, this place would erupt in paroxysms of pure rage, and you know it. Maybe you should try looking at this matter in a non-biased fashion and understand that the press isn't going to put on their Kid Gloves ...."because Bernie."
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 9, 2015, 07:47 PM - Edit history (1)
It's way too predictable and over the top. It's way too angry and loud.
The article could garner 1000 responses and it still would no longer matter. Bernie supporters have become way too militant and predictable and seem to act more like Ron Paul supporters. I wonder why they come across as such?
MADem
(135,425 posts)They can see what page they were on when they clicked the link to access the page where comments are left. When all of the users are coming from the same place, pretty much, the material is discounted as a coordinated effort by highly interested partisans. I think there is a nexus between Sanders supporters and the libertarian strain in this country--in fact, there have been some interesting articles from all sides of the spectrum on the topic since Sanders declared his candidacy.
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/20/why_libertarians_should_love_bernie_sanders/
https://reason.com/archives/2015/09/15/bernie-sanders-first-libertarian-sociali
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/13/politics/penn-jillette-bernie-sanders-libertarian/
http://bangordailynews.com/2015/08/16/the-point/bernie-sanders-has-a-lot-in-common-with-ron-paul-what-that-means-for-democrats/
I agree that the whole "loud-angry" thing is played out, too. It's a far cry from "hope and change" or even "happy warrior" tactics. Most people don't care for it. You want to hear someone kvetching, griping, and telling us all how much everything sucks? EVERYONE has a relative like that! Just go home, and get an earful!
SunSeeker
(58,283 posts)Cha
(319,073 posts)
Dan Merica Verified account
@danmericaCNN Dan Merica Verified account
Retweets 97 70Likes
7:44 AM - 8 Dec 2015
Since when does the US media do a pol's bidding except for the gops of course.. and even then they're liable to tear loose at any minute.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Never tell the press to NOT do something.
They ended up asking why they weren't allowed to ask about ISIS!!!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)they would know that he did not "refuse" to answer a question about ISIS.
He said he would talk about ISIS but not when he was visiting an impoverished area of Baltimore and discussing the horrible conditions in the poor areas of the United States.
I agree totally with Bernie on that.
Foreign policy has become an excuse not to deal with the very real needs of the American people.
The fact that 50% of young African Americans do not have the work they need, that our public housing needs repair and must be improved, that the Republicans cut the food stamps program, that so many people of color are in prison and often for "crimes" related to their poverty like not paying traffic fines or writing bad checks or welfare "fraud" as well as alleged violations of drug laws that are not easily enforced against more affluent sectors of our population -- all of these facts deserve much more attention and media time than they are getting.
In Baltimore it's African-Americans who are picked on, harassed and impoverished. In Los Angeles, it's Hispanics and certain other immigrants as well as African-Ameircans who suffer from this institutionalized discrimination.
ISIS is an important issue, but it gets lots of attention. If people watched the video posted on DU of Bernie Sanders' brief remarks in Baltimore, they would know that he explained that if he answers questions about ISIS during a visit in which he is trying to draw needed attention to the plight of African-Americans living in a poor community, then the media would report on his remarks about ISIS and not on his shock and outrage at the conditions in Baltimore that he had just witnessed.
It's as if a mother had a child sick with a high fever and a dangerous illness and was chastised for not answering the doctor's questions about the child's performance in a baseball game at school.
The topic was not ISIS. It was the fact that the media ignores the very real problem of poverty in our own country all the more important because of the extreme wealth of many in our country.
I am very happy that Bernie refused to be distracted by the ISIS question today.
If we were a country that could boast of more economic and social justice than we have, we could offer a believable and viable alternative to ISIS across the globe. That would give hope to millions including to millions of Muslims around the world -- to say nothing of people in countries in Africa, in Russia, India, etc.
ISIS will most likely fail because it will be subject to infighting. The story of Chavez's party in Venezuela is instructive. ISIS is based on a fanatical idea and an uncompromising personality, not on caring deeply about helping people. It is essentially an egotistical movement. It will fail because of infighting. That is my belief. Read the history of the French Revolution. It is a matter of time and making sure that ISIS is not accepted in the sane world. We should keep the air strikes going too.
And we should never have supported the Syrian rebels. I remember that discussing that with MADem on DU when we were first getting involved with those rebels. I warned that we did not know who the rebels really were. My predictions have proven true.
Gothmog
(179,857 posts)Sanders is not going to be able to expand his base unless he broadens his platform
procon
(15,805 posts)He missed opportunities to speak on gun control, republicans, terrorism, Trump, foreign policy, ISIS... all the current event topics of the day, to just recite the same old stump speech on income inequality.
William769
(59,147 posts)
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)regardless of the topic at hand (including ISIS, and the 3rd World neighborhoods in USA), Bernie made sure that somehow the topic made it's way back to focusing on income inequality.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)per-determined Clinton Juggernaut.
I would have predicted that Sanders would be in the single digits, because the message he represents has been so marginalized by Corporate Politicians and Corporate Media.
The fact that he has resonated with so many people indicates the opposite of your basic premise. Timne is not on his side, in terms of overcoming the status quo inertia that Clinton represents as the defacto nominee. But whetehr he wins or not, he has already won.
And you fail to note that his "one dimensional" message at that press conference was applauded by the (non-committed) AA community leaders there. They seemed to agree with his "one dimensional" message too.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I hate to tell you this, but he had more press at that gaggle than the "members of the community." And polite applause is polite applause. Don't read too much into it.
That availability pointed out how clueless he has been up to this point about the reality of life in the inner city. Maybe it will wake him up and he'll start to understand that his 'economic justice' ain't going to reach that neighborhood without a little "social justice" first. "Economic justice" isn't going to find you a job when there are no jobs in your neighborhood. He had a deer in the headlights look as he was processing all this stuff.
He resonates with a particular set of voters. He doesn't resonate with people who have been victimized by discriminatory practices and inequalities of opportunity. He's not growing his base because he won't address anything save the One Issue that he thinks, erroneously, is the linchpin to all that ails the world.
Omaha Steve
(109,228 posts)Yep. Rotten way to run for POTUS!
http://www.wmur.com/politics/wmurcnn-poll-sanders-holds-lead-over-clinton-in-new-hampshire/36878572
Cha
(319,073 posts)known in a BIG way.
Many on here were questioning his lack of even mentioning that and they were attacked by his fans.
Some Black Members here were even Censored and run off but they came back and run off again.. but they're still persevering! Thank you, bravenak, ChiTownKev, 1StrongBlackMan, and all our African American members and their allies who stand up for #BLM!
Now it's the reporters after BS.. questioning what his views are on world changing events.. especially after they're told not to ask him.
Shenmue.. thank you.Response to MADem (Original post)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.