2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary Clinton just disqualified herself as Commander in Chief
Yesterday Hillary accidentally threatened to launch a first strike nuclear attack against Iran.
In a strange incident, Supreme Court Justice Breyer jumped in from the audience to correct her.
How rare is it that a politician says something so bizarre, so inappropriate, that a Supreme Court Justice will actually interrupt her speech to rescue her from her own words? Extremely rare. Never heard of it before.
Could that be why today we've been sitting through a whole day of hearing about how Bernie Sanders is unhinged and not qualified? Are Clintonistas trying to distract from this huge gaffe?
What would be the consequences if Bernie Sanders threatened to use the "nuclear option" against any country? It would probably end his campaign. And it should be the end of Hillary's campaign too.
She said there should be no doubt in Tehran that if the United States saw any violations in the deal or an effort to procure or develop nuclear weapons technology, we will stop them, including, she added, taking military action.
At one point, responding to a question, she referred to using the nuclear option against Iran usually interpreted as using a nuclear weapon before her attention was caught by a prominent member of the audience, Justice Stephen G. Breyer of the Supreme Court.
Oh, the military option, thank you, Justice Breyer. Hes a careful listener, Mrs. Clinton said, reiterating that she meant a military option to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. It was a rare moment: a sitting member of the court rescuing a political candidate from a mistaken comment.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/07/us/politics/hillary-clinton-islamic-state-saban-forum.html
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Hepburn
(21,054 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)She doesn't work for him and lawyers are not beholden to judges except when before them in court.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)but half my family are lawyers so yes, I do know quite a bit about the federal bench so I'm asking again. How is she his underling? Unless your contention is that we all work for the federal bench. Try answering the question this time instead of laughing maniacally.
Hepburn
(21,054 posts)Hint: They are appointed for life.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)What does their having a lifetime appointment have to do with your claim that Hillary (someone who isn't even practicing law) is an underling to a judge? Go ahead, spell it out.
merrily
(45,251 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)you say something else. we know what she would do now and she told us
LuvNewcastle
(16,845 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The question is not what Hillary's fans understood that she meant but what the international community, especially Iran would think she meant.
And she probably did say what she meant.
If we have to choose between Trump and Hillary??????
Horrors!
Bernie is so normal. So sane. We need him as commander-in-chief.
Hillary has no thought for what will happen once we "win" the war. No more than George W. Bush did. Just a thought for, hey, let's go and achieve this short-term goal and who cares what happens then.
She just does not have the long-term vision we need in our next president.
merrily
(45,251 posts)cloture. I don't know of a scenario in which I would have confused that with going to real life war.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #2)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)OOT
cprise
(8,445 posts)about Iran threatening to "wipe Israel off the map"?
She repeated his claim in September, but scholars have corrected Bush saying its a deliberate mis-translation.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)To call Israel a cancer that will not survive may sound like sunshine and candy to you but how exactly does cancer get gone?
It sure didn't take Iran long to break the deal the west was so eager to get signed:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-missiles-usa-idUSKBN0TR2G920151208
I supported the Iran deal - but only to prove what Iran was all about. I knew they would test the west over and over again making them look like patsies but obviously the proof was needed to show you and everyone else that blames Israel for all the problems in the middle east that Iran is NOT the good actor so many here believe. The only surprise was that it didn't happen faster. Now go ahead and call me a warmonger and ignore that Iran has deliberately broken the deal - I could use the huge yawn it would bring. And don't forget the alert....I would be so disappointed otherwise.
cprise
(8,445 posts)and its rhetoric of 'regime change'. So, yes, Bush and Hillary are lying and making a bad situation worse. But thanks for trying to deflect instead of giving an honest answer.
It should also be noted that Israel and the US break UN resolutions almost constantly, with impunity.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)and has become nothing but a joke. Massacres in Syria for over 3 years now and nothing but Israel looks freeking sideways at the terrorist hamas and 15 resolutions get passed. No wonder the US population doesn't give a shit about them anymore. Blaming the west for all the problems in the middle east is such a fucking joke, I can't believe you're not embarrassed by using it.
still_one
(92,190 posts)possible avenue for diplomacy
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)They've become nothing but a mouthpiece for every repulsive tin pot dictator in the world. But because no entity is all bad, I will give the Secretary General credit for recently making an emergency trip to Israel to stop 11 Muslim countries from voting to make the Western Wall (holiest site to Jews) part of the Al Asqa compound which would have made quite the (deserved) explosion. It would have been the end of the UN credibility if they hadn't gotten that language changed so I'll give him credit for that.
still_one
(92,190 posts)cprise
(8,445 posts)The more extreme they are, the more motivated and willing our heavies perceive them to be.
Shall we compare the number of people ISIS has beheaded to the number Saudi Arabia beheads each year? How about the systemic collateral damage from drone attacks that amounts to collective punishment?
I think what is a joke is having little-to-no regard for the effect that the world's "sole hyperpower" (to use our government's own term) interfering with and profiting from regional divisions on the other side of the planet... like various religious sects are machines that serve our "interests abroad", provided they are supplied the right weapons at the right times.
Anyone who pays close attention to the villian-of-the-month nature of our news and foreign policy should realize just how crazy and world-hating the establishment mindset has become.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)us where the moderates and liberals are in the middle east. This should be good for a laugh. The US has interests, just like every other country in the world.
cprise
(8,445 posts)Lost the argument, so now lets just paint everyone with the brush of false-equivalency.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)my question about where all these supposed moderates and liberals are in the middle east and how the US (and Israel, of course) is to blame for all the mayhem. You don't have to convince me that other than Jordan (who also have their own problems) there isn't a country in the middle east that isn't run by lunatics, terrorists or their sympathizers. You made my argument for me. Thanks.
cprise
(8,445 posts)Being realistic is to realize that at least half the Middle East has been some kind of US military project for decades. Saddam Hussein attacked Iran with US backing, starting a war that killed a million people. (That's the last time we had any use for a secular government there.) And you, yourself, defend that based on "interests". That is called imperialism.
The groups we're fighting now were once those we supported to rid the ME of secularism and any 'non-aligned' tendencies. The idea of oil producers there being anything *not* like Saudi became too much to bear among the powerful here.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)The biggest bank account for isis and other terrorists is Saudi Arabia - where the US has never had control. You can pretend all you like that terrorism is merely an answer to imperialism - that country alone makes that argument a joke. The Sunni/Shia divide is a much more relevant battle when Muslims are killling Muslims - and make no mistake, these terrorist groups are killing other Muslims far, far more than they're killing anyone else.
cprise
(8,445 posts)We keep the House of Saud armed to the teeth and help it put down uprisings, and in return they provide cheap oil *and* funnel money and resources to useful extremist groups. And, of course, a desired outcome of wielding this power-from-afar is to sow mistrust and division among neighbors; Sunni theocrats have been the most useful tool to that end because they have the most aggressive ideology.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)who thinks anyone we have arms deals with is a "client state" - that would apply to the entirety of Europe. As if Saudi Arabia needs our money. No - the Saudis do what the Saudis do because they're protecting their own interests - not ours. The battle is between Sunni and Shia and everything else is window dressing.
cprise
(8,445 posts)The relationship goes far beyond "arms deals"; Trivializing it doesn't fool anyone.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)kow tow to the US isn't fooling anyone.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Turned many democrats against him.
Me for one when they pulled out old right wing conspiracy BS about her and the Clintons in general using scurrilous lies from right wing sources like the Blaze
merrily
(45,251 posts)gratuitous bashing of supporters of Sanders.
gordyfl
(598 posts)I certainly would not want her as Commander in Chief.
First, her support for Iraq.
Then Libya.
Now this.
Three strikes --> "You Out."
arcane1
(38,613 posts)"Nuclear Option" is a phrase in the American political lexicon that has nothing to do with nukes, and the conversation was about nukes and options. It's a mistake I could easily have made.
I would need evidence that she plans "to launch a first strike nuclear attack against Iran" before I'm bothered by this, and I am no fan.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)A bad one, but I don't think she was really threatening to use nuclear weapons.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)team Hillary would make a big deal about it.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)thucythucy
(8,050 posts)I'm trying to disregard the more hyperbolic posts on both sides.
Both candidates are miles above what passes for sentience on the Republican side.
I support Bernie, but I'll drag myself over cut glass to vote for Hillary if she gets the nomination, just to keep another Rethuglican from getting into the White House.
Off topic: Bernie was great just now on Rachel Maddow.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Every time I see a ridiculous post like that it's like bait I can't resist. It makes me want to mirror it with a similar post from the other side. It's so hard to resist that. I even put like 20 people on ignore and it helped. It can't be only one side calls the other side disqualified to be commander in chief. And they were doing stuff like that all day long.
thesquanderer
(11,986 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)We're in the thick of it. It doesn't get any better than this. It's only going to get worse. January will be something.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)yeah, no problem.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)No logical reason for me to be. She's going to make a great CIC, as well as POTUS.
cprise
(8,445 posts)...you might end up duplicating it. Which Hillary has.
jfern
(5,204 posts)She has shown herself to be quite untrustworthy on foreign policy between voting for the Iraq war, Kyl-Lieberman, supporting the Syrian jihadists, supporting the Honduras coup, and now this.
azmom
(5,208 posts)She and Trump will be going down.
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)Thank the Goddesses!
PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE
Response to azmom (Reply #8)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)In the run up to 2008, right? She never anticipated that Barack Obama, a junior Senator with barely any experience would win.
DU was filled with posters, just like yourself, who declared that Obama was unelectable and that Clinton was winning every poll--and why do we even bother supporting someone who is going to lose?
The entire Clinton meme was that she was "inevitable." It was so prolific, it became a joke.
Hillary Clinton's camp holds the record for delusion. She made Romney look rooted in reality.
So before you accuse Sanders supporters of having their heads in the sand, you may want to give yourself a reality check, there. Your camp doesn't exactly have a great track record in that area, certainly not enough to call out an entire campaign and his supporters.
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)Madam President, coming to your country in 2016.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Total fiction. She used a term with more than one meaning.
I think the polls are getting to you.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)At that level, people should be more careful with their words. As a diplomat should know that.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Response to upaloopa (Reply #17)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)don't live and die by the polls.
We've done the research and know that most of them aren't valid anymore.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/03/12/the-problem-with-modern-polling-in-one-chart/
http://www.newyorker.com/podcast/political-scene/the-problem-with-polling
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/21/opinion/sunday/whats-the-matter-with-polling.html?_r=0
http://observer.com/2015/11/gallup-decision-to-drop-horse-race-polling-is-the-best-thing-about-this-election/
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Don't set your self up for a big fall.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...Hillary had when she came in third in the 2008 Iowa caucuses?
You guys are full of more hubris than you were in 2008--when you routinely insulted Obama supporters, told us he would never win. Oh boy, did you have the polls to prove it. Hundreds of polls that had Obama losing every national poll and every state poll--even after he won Iowa and NH.
You're doing the same thing again.
And you're warning us about a big fall?
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)I don't care about polls at all.
edit: Well, not that much. A little bit. I know Hillary is winning big time everywhere except Vermont or something.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)I am thinking the Sanders win will be very hard.
Not for me, though! I will be very pleased.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Remember campaign 08? Debt in the millions to polling firms.
Buying a frigin clue is expensive.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)I haven't seen one OP today that was in opposition to Hillary that was truthful and honest.
Just Innuendo
And made up shit like yours
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Gman
(24,780 posts)Move along.
Response to Gman (Reply #20)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)The bipolar president. Can't wait.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)might tell Jamie Dimon that...just in fun...she works primarily for Goldman-Sachs...
edgineered
(2,101 posts)bring something NYC-SKP (had not) said to mind.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)edgineered
(2,101 posts)those who undoubtedly rallied against NYC-SKP and his manner of posting comments now rally in support as the tactics have become their own.
pa28
(6,145 posts)She was talking to them and she knew exactly what she was saying.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)"Accidentally" threatening to nuke Iran might help her with fundraising too.
pa28
(6,145 posts)I went to the drive through today and told them I wanted "the nuclear option". I meant to say "extra cheese".
Stuff like that happens sometimes.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)jalan48
(13,864 posts)Response to jalan48 (Reply #37)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
jalan48
(13,864 posts)Nyan
(1,192 posts)And yesterday's incident is not a gaffe. It's her consistent policy line. We heard from her own mouth that Iranians are her enemy.
Response to Nyan (Reply #41)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Response to Cheese Sandwich (Original post)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Recent events expose Bernie as not ready for primetime
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=885181
One to talk. Jeez.
It's the same thing. Except my post was at least based on actual events instead of made up stuff.
Response to Cheese Sandwich (Original post)
IHateTheGOP This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)handle, isn't ready for prime time, and then saying some fake incident disqualifies him to be Commander in Chief.
So this is the response.
artislife
(9,497 posts)of fear coming from their side. Grasping at tiny little straws. Lots of scrambling going on ....makes my day.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)The same talking points on RW sites, but coming from a different perspective, one reads here. The Left think that Hillary is too hawkish, the Right think that she's too weak.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Trying to turn this into something is pathetic. Sorry, JMHO
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Clinton campaign would use this kind of thing against an opponent. They do it all the time. And they're maybe the best political operation in the world. So there has to be some point to it.
Hekate
(90,681 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)out of Iran.
Now it's Hillary?
Am I taking crazy pills? Since when does our supposed front-runner crib from the previous failed Republican front-runner? Since when does a primary candidate undermine the foreign policy of the sitting Commander In Chief from the SAME PARTY? This shit is not far off from grand supreme general mcgrumpypants from Arizona, and the Wasilla meth cowgirl.
You could mix up some phrases from McCain and Hillary and play a game of 'Who Said It', and EVERYONE WOULD FUCKING LOSE.
What the hell?
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)when he said that the Iraq war was the worst policy blunder of the US -- discounting the Bay of Pigs crisis, that led to the possibility of a nuclear confrontation between the US and Russia, or the Vietnam War, which led to 60,000 pointless US deaths.
His spokesman said it was "a slip of the tongue" and that he MEANT to say "one of the worst."
So if a slip of the tongue disqualifies a candidate, then he's disqualified, too.
Which leaves Martin, I guess, unless he also has ever had a slip of the tongue.
Which I kind of bet he has.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/14/bernie-sanders-said-iraq-was-the-worst-foreign-policy-blunder-in-u-s-history-really/
Another example that would spring to mind for many is Bay of Pigs, the CIA-sponsored military invasion of Cuba in 1961. That invasion is widely remembered as an absolute disaster, with an invasion force of around 1,400 militiamen completely outnumbered by around 200,000 to 300,000 forces loyal to Fidel Castro's left-wing government. As historian Theodore Draper famously put it, it was "one of those rare events in history a perfect failure." It helped contribute to a Cold War antagonism that could potentially have descended into nuclear war.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)She is joining the right wing chorus that seem to be deliberately stirring the shit as a pretext for igniting a conflict with Iran, instead of using the treaty a possible step towards establishing some kind of more positive -- or at least bneitral -- relationship with the most powerful nation in the Middle East.
THAT should disqualify her, or at least shed doubt on her foreign policy "experience."
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)Have you listened to any of them? To any of the GOP candidates?
Armstead
(47,803 posts)being very aggressive and threatening military action against Iran. And, just like Clinton, they are deliberately putting the agreement in a negative, rather than a positive, frame.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)LS_Editor
(893 posts)Very concerning, indeed.
akbacchus_BC
(5,704 posts)Does that not even count? I know, the atrocities were mind boggling and somehow we cannot seem to forgive her!
Look who you have on the GOP side, every frigging time, Americans are being asked to vote for the lesser of two evils and this time, the evil is Donald Trump. Don't stay home and not vote, Mrs. Clinton is way better than any GOP nominee. Kinda sad to see American politics come to such a low level. The world respected the US and now, I have no idea. I just want you all to elect a leader who can work with our Leader, Mr. Justin Trudeau, we can work together as a committed continent to fight ISIS but our PM is tired of the bull shit in the middle east. Our former PM, Chretien was smart enough to say no to the invasion of Iraq.
We can work this thing through but Trump is not the one to lead America, he is a frigging clown but his base supports him, which shows how divided America is!
cprise
(8,445 posts)...to come around! That's not an apology, that's reluctant calculation.
Starting in 1998, when Bill Clinton bombed Iraq in Operation Desert Fox, the Clintons have accepted or advanced the lie about WMD in Iraq. Hillary herself had access to the classified version of the NIE document, which another Senator said painted a completely different picture than the public version.
Now Hillary is pushing the Bush lie that Iran threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" (a horrendous mistranslation that was corrected years ago).
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Beacool
(30,247 posts)I have seen here more than one post stating that X (fill in the hot issue of the day) "disqualifies Hillary to be CIC".
You are all preaching to your own choir and not convincing anyone else.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)are Hillary supporters feel more strongly about our candidate than ever.
Posts such as this OP show that some Bernie supporters have not yet gotten the message. It is Democrats who participate in Dem caucuses and primaries. Bernie supporters can talk all they want about winning over Independents and the few Republicans who are not insane in the GE, but they have to get to the GE first. Constantly harping against Dems generally, Dem supporters of Hillary, DWS, or the so-called Dem "establishment" just doesn't win hearts or minds - even when there may be more than a grain of truth to what they say.
For Bernie to win among Dems generally - and Dems are his most supportive group - he will have to convince Clinton supporters to desert their candidate en masse during the Dem primary season.
I just don't see that happening, particularly when OPs like this and gratuitously nasty responses from some Bernie supporters to it continue to be the ordre du jour.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)... did I start a nuclear holocaust? My bad."
Walk away
(9,494 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)If somebody had time.
I think she's pandering to the big donors like Saban. Even though I've been told before that she isn't influenced by the money that she takes, it seems ridiculous to me. I mean the thing is called the Saban forum for a reason. Because he is a rich powerful guy.
Hillary billionaire donor urges more scrutiny of Muslims and some suspension of civil liberties
merrily
(45,251 posts)Business has said that the biggest bang for the buck they get from any dollar is the money they donate to politicians. I don't think, by "bang for the buck" they meant just a warm, fuzzy feeling a donor gets when giving money to a charity and expecting nothing in return.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)here direct from the campaign script writer room,have an answer for everything even when Hillary is dead wrong.
Which she is most of the time.
Yep Bernie's campaign would be over if he made a statement like she did.
I've noticed too that when Hillary talks about major issues she copies what Bernie has already said. Then the corporate media treats her statement as s fresh idea.
Just one question: How can any real Democrat support a Corporstist candidate like Hillary?
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Response to Cheese Sandwich (Original post)
NCTraveler This message was self-deleted by its author.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)What the hell? 9/11 justifies big Wall Street donations, "Bomb Iran"* until the Supreme Court intervenes...
* see also: John Sidney McCain III
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts). . . that Poland was not behind the Iron Curtain.
Carter's eyes got as big as pancakes as he couldn't believe what he had just heard.
That was when Ford lost any chance of being re-elected.
I think this was the moment when Hillary lost her last chance to get elected President.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)It is a complete political meltdown that shows very poor judgement and a mean streak of International War Mongering.
...and I thought she was campaigning on her superior experience in Foreign Affairs.
Anyone talking about using NUKES has no business in or near the White House, or anyone in it.
Thank You, Justice Stephen G. Breyer, for immediately putting an end to this kind of nonsense that belongs in Trump's campaign,
NOT the Democratic Party.
We are supposed to be smarter than that.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)option has a double meaning and that Hillary would never threaten nuclear war in a campaign speach.
But then being her loyal opposition gives you rights no one else has.
This primary season must be setting records for producing innuendo and bull shit.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Here. I'll help:
In a strange incident, Supreme Court Justice Breyer jumped in from the audience to correct her.
How rare is it that a politician says something so bizarre, so inappropriate, that a Supreme Court Justice will actually interrupt her speech to rescue her from her own words? Extremely rare. Never heard of it before. "
If you are having trouble with this (and clearly you are), take it up with the New York Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/07/us/politics/hillary-clinton-islamic-state-saban-forum.html
MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)MineralMan
(146,307 posts)He or she is on a time-out for having 5 hidden posts. Won't be able to reply for some time to come.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Her hardline foreign policy positions.
She never uses the word "peace" in any of her speeches.
She's always talking about "war", "terrorism", "bombs", "enemies", "drones", or something militaristic like that.
That is why I think she is a warmonger.
And that's why I won't vote for her.
MineralMan
(146,307 posts)Cheese Sandwich has been put on time-out for having five hidden posts and an exposed Transparency Page.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=321990&sub=trans
You'll have to wait a while for a response.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Many people read threads here, including Thom Hartmann.
I'm just adding to his thread.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)This is intolerable...