Where Bernie is disingenuous

[hill2016]

(1) His platform calls for increased government spending. However to have an honest discussion on policy you need to discuss the sources of revenue as well. I don't know whether he has raised this issue at his rally: how much revenue will he raise from each source? what are the tax rates that will be increased? who will be impacted?

And no, a "financial transactions tax" is not the gold at the end of the rainbow: painless (on the people who matter), plentiful and without adverse side effect.

(2) free public college: all countries that have tried it impose limits on who qualifies. I don't here any discussion of this.

(3) Denmark/Scandinavia nirvana: not a word of the high taxes on the middle class.


I'm happy to be proven wrong.

[hill2016]

6. sure

show me how much revenue he wants to bring in from taxes and who exactly he is taxing.

[Scootaloo]

2. What's the secret word of the day, Conky?

[Matariki]

3. lol

DU needs a game where you try to group all the posts with the 'secret word of the day'!

[bvf]

7. Hmm...

Showing my age.

But, great idea that would never fly!

[bvf]

4. !

Out with it, Conky!

[merrily]

5. I prefer Conky to this one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027435003

[Docreed2003]

26. Lmao....

That brings back memories

[artislife]

31. I have to vote for Bernie

His supporters are quirky and fun!!

[cosmicone]

8. Kicked and highly recommended n/t

[zalinda]

9. And what about all the tax breaks Hillary wants?

These tax breaks will do absolutely nothing for the poor, because they usually don't pay taxes. And, if you keep up with the news the middle class is shrinking fast. So, most of these tax breaks will go to the wealthy, but then you knew that.

Z

[Thinkingabout]

28. What tax breaks?

[artislife]

32. There is a crazy thing in this country

They only think working has merit. Maybe because it is the money generator for it?

[Eric J in MN]

10. Bernie Sanders has been clearer about taxes than Hillary Clinton.

Bernie Sanders introduced "The College for All Act" which raises the needed $750 billion with stock-transactions tax:
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/1373/text
===
“(1) 0.5 percent in the case of a security described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of subsection (e)(1),

“(2) 0.10 percent in the case of a security described in subparagraph (C) of subsection (e)(1), and

“(3) 0.005 percent in the case of a security described in subparagraph (D), (E), or (F) of subsection (e)(1).
====

Hillary Clinton doesn't have a specific tax proposal for the $350 billion needed for her "debt-free college" plan.



With regard to Denmark, the Danes pay high taxes, but they're at the top in terms of happiness.

[aidbo]

11. I like Nirvana!

[UglyGreed]

21. [phone]

[artislife]

33. I went to the Seattle Center when we got the news

[firebrand80]

23. You win my award for Avatar of the day

Well done

[Docreed2003]

27. Great song....

Love the "Live and Loud" version as well..

[beam me up scottie]

12. Amazon review for Uranium Ore

So glad I don't have to buy this from Libyans in parking lots at the mall anymore.
By Kyle J. Von Bose - January 21, 2009

I bought this to power a home-made submarine that I use to look for prehistoric-era life forms in land-locked lakes around my home town in Alaska. At first I wasn't sure if this item would (or could) arrive via mail, but I was glad to see it showed up with no problems. Well, almost no problems.

Unfortuantly my mom opened my mail, because she does not respect people's privacy. She was pretty upset to see Uranium Ore. After a long argument and me running away from home again, she finaly stopped being such an idiot and I was able to get back to work.

The quality of this Uranium is on par with the stuff I was bying from the Libyans over at the mall parking lot, but at half the price! I just hope the seller does not run out, because I have many projects on my list including a night vision sasquatch radar, an electromagnetic chupakabra cage, a high velocity, aerial, weighted Mothman net and super heated, instant grill cheese sandwhich maker.

https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM/ref=cm_lmf_tit_1

[AgingAmerican]

13. His platform would be cheaper than what we have now

Denmark/Scandinavia have as much or more disposable income than we do. That's because they don't go broke paying medical bill and tuition fees.

[hill2016]

20. then who is going

to pay for the medical bill and tuition fees?

[Enrique]

14. he is very upfront about raising taxes

George Stephanopoulos challenged him on it and he very frankly said, yes everyone's taxes will need to go up.

[treestar]

15. True he should at least address those issues

There was a discussion about free college in Germany and it came out that only the top students get in.

[AgingAmerican]

16. Entry requirements come from the institution

They are not government mandated.

[hill2016]

22. so

what about people who go to community college. Do they get free college too?

[AgingAmerican]

25. Community colleges are public

Do you even know how it works? If you cannot get into a university from HS, you go to community college, earn an AA or an AS transfer degree then transfer to a university. I didn't graduate from the 7th grade, but ended up getting a GED, an AS from a CC, then I transferred to the University and got a bachelors degree. That's how it works.

[GermanWatcher]

35. College is free for students in Germany

From firsthand knowledge I can tell you that college (Universität in German) is free in Germany. There are no tuition fees other than administrative charges (usually less than 200 $ per semester).
Students from low-income families can even apply for a federal subsidy that can go up to about 750 $ a month.
This applies to everyone who has the qualification to go to Uni - a diploma called Abitur that about 40 percent od German students get at age 18 - 19.
By the way, the Getman marginal tax rate is 42 percent.

[Hepburn]

17. Wow, you mean it will get tighter for Middle Class wage earners getting $250K/year??

Cry me a river.

[Thinkingabout]

29. Hillary wants FICA raised on those making $250,000 a year, Sanders wants it raised

Those making less than $250,000 a year.

[Armstead]

18. I have some quotes that seem to sum up your message

“Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”

“We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much.”

“No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth!”

“Government does not tax to get the money it needs; government always finds a need for the money it gets.”

“You can’t be for big government, big taxes, and big bureaucracy and still be for the little guy.”

“The American people are not undertaxed, the government in Washington is overfed.”

“Whenever we lower the tax rates, our entire nation is better off.”

Ronald Reagan

[fleur-de-lisa]

19. I know, right . . .

http://news.yahoo.com/israeli-pms-dog-bites-political-visitors-092310998.html

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's recently adopted dog Kaiya has sunk her teeth into her new position, biting two visitors at an event on Wednesday, including the husband of the deputy foreign minister.

At a candle-lighting ceremony to mark the Jewish festival of Hannukah, the 10-year-old mixed breed also took a snip at a member of parliament from Netanyahu's Likud party.

Knesset Member Sharren Haskel, a veterinary nurse, dismissed the incident, telling Army Radio it was "trivial".

more at link . . .

[Alfresco]

24. A nebulous kick.

[artislife]

30. He has answered the first question at his rallies and more.

Yes, grades is what they use in Germany for example. You compete with the students from your area for seats at Uni.
The Scandinavian countries tax is higher. But then they don't have to pay for medical insurance and medical treatments not covered.


If you are really interested, go to feelthebern.org. They have created a very fun and easy to use website with tiles that will allow you to click on them and they will take you to the topic they represent.

[PatrickforO]

34. It blows me away that you're even advancing this argument.

We've all noticed, especially since the Bush tax cuts, that government can't cut, cut, cut business and personal income taxes and then still provide the services we depend on.

Right now, we have over $20 trillion in UNTAXED corporate profits and wealthy earner income stashed offshore. The big finance houses have 'bots that perform arbitrage in split second trades. We have billionaires paying a lower tax rate than their administrative assistant. We allow estates of up to $5 million to be transferred untaxed, and with loopholes in estate planning, it is possible to transfer the entire amount through trusts without any tax.

Now, I suspect that before this Bernie/Hillary race, you'd have been right with me here, because we on the left have been saying that trickle down economics has never, does not now and will never work. In the meantime, we've had ebola scares and massive bush fires in CA and all over the west coast, and we've found out (remember Lindsay 'we're all gonna dyah!' Graham?) that Republican cuts have made things much, much more dangerous.

Basically, Hill, we've all been saying the government needs to raise taxes to pay for services we need. We don't want to forego those services, and many of us are saying we desperately need to spend some money on the infrastructure. I suspect you have as well.

Well, in a just tax system the rich pay more, the middle incrementally less and poor very little. You know all this.

Yet, for political expediency you are using the 'he's going to raise taxes so you should fear him' argument. You're better than that, Hill. All of us are.

Now, if you'll permit, I will inject a personal note into this: I don't mind a bit paying more taxes, if paying them means that my grandkids will be able to go to college without getting into a huge hole of debt, that I will not have to worry about going broke if I get sick, and that my old age Social Security pension will be secure and will keep me from eating out of dumpsters.

See, Hill, right now, between my employer and me, we pay 18.5% of my gross for shitty, rationed healthcare from an HMO who cares far more about cutting costs than giving my family the actual treatment we need. Not only that, but for about the last decade, employees at my firm have been called into a meeting room by HR in November to be told how our copays will be going up, the services we qualify for will be going down, and our premiums will be increasing (this year for me it is 8% - my employer absorbed the other 3%). So, I already pay 'taxes' out the nose for healthcare. They are called premiums. Under Bernie's plan I'd pay the same or even a bit less for MUCH BETTER CARE.

So, ask me if I'd like (and be willing to pay higher taxes to fund) a single payer healthcare system like the United Kingdom has and I will not only say 'yes!' but I'll say HELL YES!!!

Bernie hasn't been disingenuous. He has said he'll raise taxes. But you know as well as I do, Hill, that it won't happen without lots of pressure from us and some bipartisan effort in Congress. So, to be more detailed than he has been knowing as he does how Congress works, would be disingenuous. Saying 'this is what I want to do and will try to do if elected, with all your help' doesn't seem disingenuous at all. He's even calling for a 'political revolution' which basically means the American people getting engaged in politics like they should be.

[Motown_Johnny]

36. Another dishonest post from a Clinton supporter, why am I not shocked?

Please link to where Sen. Sanders had referred to either Denmark or Scandinavia as a "Nirvana".

All he has ever said is that there are things done in those systems which we can learn from.

[WillyT]

37. Easy Peasy... We've Done It Before, Ya Know ???

[Hiraeth]

38. I hope you are happy now

seems you have been proven wrong