Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Skinner

(63,645 posts)
Sun Dec 13, 2015, 06:32 PM Dec 2015

Sanders Will Win, Despite Rigged Debate Schedules, Skewed Polls, and Clinton's 'Inevitability'



H. A. Goodman
Posted: 12/11/2015 1:00 pm EST

The American political establishment is trying desperately to shift public opinion towards the belief that voters will elect a person they don't trust and don't like. It's not a conspiracy, however, it's simply the same dynamics that allowed Enron to seduce financial markets before its epic collapse. BusinessWeek wrote a glowing cover story on Enron in February of 2001, stating "Enron's success has not gone unnoticed, but it has a few advantages that competitors would be hard pressed to match." Ten months after this glowing review of Enron's prominence within the energy field, it went bankrupt.

The same dynamics are at play with Hillary Clinton and poll numbers, as well as Clinton's "inevitability." Conventional logic is often rooted in a herd mentality, wrapped in a cloak of groupthink, and justified by doublespeak. It's the reason that television gravitates away from honest individuals and towards anyone who will sell commercials. According to a Philly.com article by Will Bunch, More Americans support Bernie than The Donald -- but he gets 1/23 the TV coverage.

To certain people, Hillary Clinton is definitely going to win, simply because of poll numbers. However, people forget that in December of 2007, Gallup reported Clinton Maintains Large Lead Over Obama Nationally. Of course, in American society today, looking back only eight years is ancient history.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/bernie-sanders-will-become-president_b_8780730.html
77 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Sanders Will Win, Despite Rigged Debate Schedules, Skewed Polls, and Clinton's 'Inevitability' (Original Post) Skinner Dec 2015 OP
But of course, Mr. Goodman. Of course. randome Dec 2015 #1
Yes. So says the guy who endorsed RAND PAUL for President just a year ago. pnwmom Dec 2015 #49
Was this the DU reset? yallerdawg Dec 2015 #2
Haha... cui bono Dec 2015 #6
Skinner want to maintain a measure of impartiality IMO navarth Dec 2015 #29
What was that whistling by overhead? yallerdawg Dec 2015 #35
Or he's covering all his bases just in case. I suspect that a lot of Clinton supporters view totodeinhere Dec 2015 #52
There is an important force in politics that all of us that mock HA Goodman's writing forget about. FSogol Dec 2015 #3
Yeah, I support Sanders, but I think Goodman's glasses are too rose-colored thesquanderer Dec 2015 #7
Yes, if the media refuse to cover Hillary's seamier side, many won't know. senz Dec 2015 #19
I'm sure that the media will cover them nxylas Dec 2015 #23
I fear that, too. senz Dec 2015 #25
hahahahahaha...Uniformed about Clinton??? VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #27
You can always make stuff up to satisfy upaloopa Dec 2015 #32
What is, is. It doesn't magically disappear senz Dec 2015 #45
The Republicans will make sure her seamier side is covered MissDeeds Dec 2015 #60
Hillary has been vetted for over twenty years. MoonRiver Dec 2015 #69
I agree nxylas Dec 2015 #21
They won't get much attention, except....................... PatrickforO Dec 2015 #39
Good comment. However senz Dec 2015 #62
You're sure right on those. PatrickforO Dec 2015 #73
This message was self-deleted by its author PatrickforO Dec 2015 #75
You're sweet Skinner. Baitball Blogger Dec 2015 #4
Is this a trap? cui bono Dec 2015 #5
It's snark MissDeeds Dec 2015 #63
HA! wildeyed Dec 2015 #8
I see what you did there. Blue_Adept Dec 2015 #9
.......... sufrommich Dec 2015 #10
!!! zappaman Dec 2015 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author iandhr Dec 2015 #12
Well ... if HA Goodman says so, then Hillary is doomed! NurseJackie Dec 2015 #13
'facebook likes' bigtree Dec 2015 #14
Almost as good as his "Clinton will finish 3rd in Iowa" article... SidDithers Dec 2015 #15
Well, she finished 3rd the last time! Fuddnik Dec 2015 #17
Somebody stole Skinners username! Fuddnik Dec 2015 #16
Rec for the writer's deft equation of Hillary with Enron. yardwork Dec 2015 #18
HA H.A. Goodman workinclasszero Dec 2015 #20
Skinner, Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #22
More important... yallerdawg Dec 2015 #36
I am betting it isn't his basement n/t Motown_Johnny Dec 2015 #55
Bernie is the best candidate for the people of this country, senz Dec 2015 #24
except of course VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #28
Is this a test of the servers? Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #26
Skewed Polls? Gamecock Lefty Dec 2015 #30
No but Goodman is trying to be ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #38
The author should have picked a photograph that doesn't make Sanders look grumpy. nt Agnosticsherbet Dec 2015 #31
Where would he find one? 72DejaVu Dec 2015 #33
I am sure the Sanders campaign could provide one or two if given enough time. Agnosticsherbet Dec 2015 #34
"Shark Jumping Made Easy," by H. A. Goodman MineralMan Dec 2015 #37
This thread demonstrates yet again DaveT Dec 2015 #40
+1 senz Dec 2015 #50
Sanders wont win ! shwnrob Dec 2015 #41
When H.A. Goodman speaks ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #42
After the 2016 election, I predict that H.A. Goodman will: DFW Dec 2015 #43
Hope So colsohlibgal Dec 2015 #44
Totally rec'ing this. Bobbie Jo Dec 2015 #46
Quick! Let's trash H.A. Goodman!! senz Dec 2015 #47
Quick! Let's trash Ron/Rand Paul supporter H.A. Goodman!! zappaman Dec 2015 #51
I second that FRP. greatauntoftriplets Dec 2015 #53
How many times can HA Goodman write the same article? oberliner Dec 2015 #48
'Conventional logic is often rooted in a herd mentality, wrapped in a cloak of groupthink.' elleng Dec 2015 #54
You forgot the dripping with sarcasm smiley. William769 Dec 2015 #56
Just came out today, HRC trails Rubio, Carson in nat'l polling... modestybl Dec 2015 #57
Well, if you put it that way, which coincidentally is 100% true. SmittynMo Dec 2015 #59
Very well said. senz Dec 2015 #65
Sanders kill her in Independent support tazkcmo Dec 2015 #76
K and R DocMac Dec 2015 #58
The logic is pretty sound Android3.14 Dec 2015 #61
In real life, I have no problem with Clinton supporters senz Dec 2015 #67
It's getting to where when I see a blue and Red 'H' I just skip it. YOHABLO Dec 2015 #64
This message was self-deleted by its author senz Dec 2015 #66
Yeah, I know what you mean. senz Dec 2015 #72
Good idea! Limit your intake to voices that agree with you! brooklynite Dec 2015 #74
We really need to see some primary wins Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2015 #68
I wouldn't call Bernie "scrappy." senz Dec 2015 #71
Good one, Skinner! leftofcool Dec 2015 #70
good one! wendylaroux Dec 2015 #77
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
1. But of course, Mr. Goodman. Of course.
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 12:11 PM
Dec 2015

Numbers and voters don't matter in the big scheme of things.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.
[/center][/font][hr]

pnwmom

(109,037 posts)
49. Yes. So says the guy who endorsed RAND PAUL for President just a year ago.
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 04:24 PM
Dec 2015

And claims he's a big progressive.

Uh-huh. Of course a Rand Paul libertarian supporter would be drawn to Bernie. Makes perfect sense.

totodeinhere

(13,059 posts)
52. Or he's covering all his bases just in case. I suspect that a lot of Clinton supporters view
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 05:23 PM
Dec 2015

Bernie's candidacy much more seriously than they let on.

FSogol

(45,634 posts)
3. There is an important force in politics that all of us that mock HA Goodman's writing forget about.
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 12:16 PM
Dec 2015

I'm speaking, of course, about wishful thinking.

thesquanderer

(12,018 posts)
7. Yeah, I support Sanders, but I think Goodman's glasses are too rose-colored
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 12:31 PM
Dec 2015

As in this...

things will change once more media attention is given to Clinton's prison lobbyist donors, use of race and Islamophobia against Obama in 2008, and almost three week delay in addressing questions about Ferguson.


I would be surprised if any of these things actually get much media attention.
 

senz

(11,945 posts)
19. Yes, if the media refuse to cover Hillary's seamier side, many won't know.
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 02:21 PM
Dec 2015

That's one way she can win: an uninformed populace.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
27. hahahahahaha...Uniformed about Clinton???
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 02:33 PM
Dec 2015

hahahahaha oh please...

First its the candidate with "name recognition"....now its not???

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
45. What is, is. It doesn't magically disappear
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 04:12 PM
Dec 2015

to satisfy the need to maintain a cherished but carefully concocted image.

I understand how you feel but believe you are making a mistake if your goal is a return to healthy, democratic government that serves the needs of the people.

If you have a different goal, then we don't have much common area in which to converse, do we?

 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
60. The Republicans will make sure her seamier side is covered
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 06:15 PM
Dec 2015

if, god forbid, she "wins" the nomination. They couldn't ask for anything better.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
69. Hillary has been vetted for over twenty years.
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 07:17 PM
Dec 2015

Right wing haters, and others now, have continually tried to destroy her with half truths, innuendos, Sand, more often, outright lies. She's still standing tall. And the reason isn't an uninformed public. It's because she hasn't done anything wrong.

nxylas

(6,440 posts)
21. I agree
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 02:23 PM
Dec 2015

He reminds me of columnists like Peggy Noonan who could "feel in their bones" that Rmoney was going to win in a landslide in 2008. Not that I don't *want* Sanders to win, but it'll take more than Facebook posts and Google searches to get him there.

PatrickforO

(14,620 posts)
39. They won't get much attention, except.......................
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 03:16 PM
Dec 2015

on social media.

It's a different world now because the establishment, as much as it desperately wants to, can no longer control the narrative. Because of social media, Americans are waking up and understanding how propagandized they have become.

I mean, think about this site. I LOVE being in here because I get to comment on articles, write my own posts, and argue with people on positions that mean something to me. If you'd have told me in 1990 how much time I'd spend daily on the internet and social media (which I didn't even know existed back then), I'd have said you're crazy.

Now, not so much, and it is changing the game. My daughter came over yesterday, and she said her in-laws, who are SERIOUS conservatives, but not the crazy religious type, actually like Bernie. Whoa. I mean these people were touting the tea party incumbents on our county's school board less than a month ago............and now they are going around saying they LIKE Bernie, don't like Rump and Cruz is too religious-crazy.

So there it is....

Reminder, everyone - the primaries HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET. We'll know how Bernie's REALLY going to do when that happens. Like the author of this HP article, I believe a LOT of people are in for a serious surprise. Because the only people who really LIKE Bernie are the American people, because he has our back, is honest and has a great track record. People like that.

We'll see, won't we?

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
62. Good comment. However
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 06:25 PM
Dec 2015

it points to two key areas we, as Democrats and democrats, must protect: 1) a free and open Internet (net neutrality at least) and 2) voting rights and honest, accurate results.

These would be the two easiest ways for the oligarchy to disempower the people.

PatrickforO

(14,620 posts)
73. You're sure right on those.
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 08:22 PM
Dec 2015

And every time we defeat efforts to get rid of net neutrality, it shows up again, over and over and over and over, 24/7/365 because billions of dollars in profits are at stake and the big telecomms will never, ever relent.

As to voter suppression, yep. Bunch of that going on. People do have time and GOTV efforts may work, as well as just the anger of the voting populace that has been suppressed. I think a lot of minority people look at those measures and decide, "Nope, I'm gonna vote no matter what, hell or high water."

At least I hope so.

But, yeah, until we can get the corporate corruption out of DC and get politicians in there that are actually trying to govern, we're going to have to dramatically increase our level of political awareness and interaction with the system. That's Bernie's 'political revolution.' He's not gonna get anything done without massive social pressure from all of us.

Response to senz (Reply #62)

Baitball Blogger

(46,858 posts)
4. You're sweet Skinner.
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 12:20 PM
Dec 2015

It's very kind of you to post this thread. And in return, you know we will vote for Hillary if she wins the Primary.

Response to Skinner (Original post)

yardwork

(61,887 posts)
18. Rec for the writer's deft equation of Hillary with Enron.
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 02:21 PM
Dec 2015

That's a new one for me. I've seen Hillary equated with Margaret Thatcher, Hitler, and Trump, but not Enron.

Next headline.... Hillary responsible for Great Depression.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
22. Skinner,
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 02:25 PM
Dec 2015

first of all congratulation on switching servers with such alacricy.

Second, could you tell me why you posted this article. Because the debate about it seems rather onesided and predictable.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
24. Bernie is the best candidate for the people of this country,
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 02:26 PM
Dec 2015

so let's help him win the nomination.

MineralMan

(146,373 posts)
37. "Shark Jumping Made Easy," by H. A. Goodman
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 03:05 PM
Dec 2015

This is probably the silliest thing he has posted at HuffPo.

Either that, or Ariana has forgotten to create a satire page for his posts.

DaveT

(687 posts)
40. This thread demonstrates yet again
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 03:18 PM
Dec 2015

that the main rationale for the Hillary Rodham Clinton campaign is

Vote for me because I am going to win anyway.

Or, going by the logic of her supporters here, Resistance Is Futile.


So anybody who suggests otherwise is deserving not refutation, but ridicule.


We'll see who gets the last laugh. Enjoy your lead while it lasts. You all have very short memories.

 

shwnrob

(8 posts)
41. Sanders wont win !
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 03:25 PM
Dec 2015

Cant wait to see the faces of these Bernie Sanders cult members when he drops out of the race.

DFW

(54,662 posts)
43. After the 2016 election, I predict that H.A. Goodman will:
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 03:49 PM
Dec 2015

If Bernie wins, become press secretary to the President of the United States

or

If Hillary wins, do what Barbara Eden as did Genie when she was upset with her Master: *poof*

Nuanced is one thing this commentator is NOT

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
44. Hope So
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 04:01 PM
Dec 2015

Hillary will be comfortably preferable to whoever the crazy party puts. But that bar is incredlbly low.

Historically once the Robber Barons wear out their welcome populism breaks out. But that has all happened pre Fox and Corporate News, FDR did not have Rush and Hannity hammering him 24/7.

Hillary is just too third way. Too cozy with Wall Street and the Defense Industry. Also some if us are still bothered by her Iraq War vote. Hillary is a smart lady and it is hard to believe she bought what the Bushies were shoveling. That would be bad enough but even worse would be her voting for it because she was afraid it would be used against her.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
47. Quick! Let's trash H.A. Goodman!!
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 04:22 PM
Dec 2015

and anyone, anyone, who doesn't worship the great, the amazing, the miraculous ... Hillary!

Me, I prefer the give-and-take of public discourse, opposing views, that sort of thing.

But then, I'm a Democrat who still believes in democracy. Not at all "ready" for Third Way collusion with oligarchs.

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
51. Quick! Let's trash Ron/Rand Paul supporter H.A. Goodman!!
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 04:26 PM
Dec 2015

Fixed it for ya.
Fuck Ron and Rand Paul.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
48. How many times can HA Goodman write the same article?
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 04:23 PM
Dec 2015

He doesn't even really vary the content much from one to the next.

 

modestybl

(458 posts)
57. Just came out today, HRC trails Rubio, Carson in nat'l polling...
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 05:59 PM
Dec 2015

For well over a month now, national polls show Sanders doing as well or better than HRC against all the major GOP candidates... yet you'd barely know that by the coverage THAT fact has gotten.

True, national polls are highly volatile, but that is the info we have, and it has been consistent. HRC supporters have this mistaken belief that Sanders would definitely lose in the GE, and the HRC is the stronger candidate... by any evidence we have, that is NOT TRUE.

Sanders has more supporters than the Donald, yet gets 1/31st or less of the coverage. People up and down the political spectrum are disgusted at the system that HRC's candidacy thrives in. Sanders calls it out, the corruption, the money, the utter lack of representation that for the vast majority of people.

HRC defends Wall Street. And the corporations, so naturally all of the networks are quietly (and not so quietly) rooting for here. Fortunately, we have other outlets.

It will be difficult, but not impossible.

SmittynMo

(3,544 posts)
59. Well, if you put it that way, which coincidentally is 100% true.
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 06:11 PM
Dec 2015

I find it a miracle she has any support at all. Personally, I don't get it. His approval rating should be 70%, or better. I mean, how can America go wrong with his policy?

tazkcmo

(7,314 posts)
76. Sanders kill her in Independent support
Thu Dec 17, 2015, 11:13 AM
Dec 2015
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/9/17/1422117/-Poll-of-Independents-Sanders-45-Trump-26-HRC-9

Independents make up 40% of the voters. Sanders also has better Republican support. Sec Clinton has already announced to 30% (Registered Republicans) of the electorate that they are her number 1 enemy. Good luck in the GE.

DocMac

(1,628 posts)
58. K and R
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 06:07 PM
Dec 2015

Happy to see this, Skinner. I'm ok with Hillary but, I'm too old to pass this chance to see some serious change in this country. Besides, a Sanders Presidency would take the Republicans into another universe, and who wants to miss that? lol

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
61. The logic is pretty sound
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 06:18 PM
Dec 2015

If Bernie represents your values more so than Clinton, then it is smart strategy to vote for him in the primaries. If he wins, he has as good, or even better, chances against the GOP nutballs as Clinton does, and we might have a freakin' awesome president.

If he loses in the primaries and Clinton is the nominee, then vote for Clinton in the general. We won't have as awesome a nominee and potential leader, but she still has a reasonable chance to beat the GOP.

Despite the mean spirit of The Swarm, many who currently support Clinton are kind thoughtful people who are just now realizing that a vote for Bernie is smart strategy and smart democracy.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
67. In real life, I have no problem with Clinton supporters
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 06:51 PM
Dec 2015

when I encounter them, which isn't too often. However, they tend be nice, uninformed, gullible people who know the name and approve the gender.

There is so much more at stake.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
64. It's getting to where when I see a blue and Red 'H' I just skip it.
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 06:41 PM
Dec 2015

Last edited Mon Dec 14, 2015, 07:16 PM - Edit history (2)

Whatever.

Response to YOHABLO (Reply #64)

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,474 posts)
68. We really need to see some primary wins
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 06:57 PM
Dec 2015

before we can make any real sense about the state of the race. Polling and endorsements are currently with HRC and, frankly, I believe that she is the more well-rounded and stronger candidate with lots of experience and comprehensive knowledge of politics and world affairs. Bernie is a scrappy populist who says the right things and is able to connect with people and has some good policy ideas whom would probably make a great cabinet official but I don't see him as having the wide-ranging knowledge and experience that Hillary does. I know that he's been a Rep and now a Senator for many years but he just doesn't seem to have the kind of gravitas that we need as POTUS. I will, however, gladly throw my support to Bernie in the GE if he wins the nomination.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
71. I wouldn't call Bernie "scrappy."
Mon Dec 14, 2015, 07:50 PM
Dec 2015

Serious and sincere is not the same as scrappy. He is not the least bit quarrelsome or feisty; some of us might wish he were more so at times.

Also, he has plenty of gravitas there. I've seen his speeches in the House and Senate chambers; no lack of gravitas. He was also a successful executive as Mayor of Burlington, with sufficient gravitas. Where he may fall short in the "appearance" department is not joking around enough. But he could probably learn that; I get the impression he joked around as a younger man, so the humor is in there. I realize Hillary bursts into a loud laugh at various times when being interviewed and find it hard to imagine Bernie doing the same, so she has that.

His knowledge and experience are good. He has extensive knowledge of our government, as well as domestic and foreign issues, from 25 years of service in both houses of the U. S. legislature.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Sanders Will Win, Despite...