2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAn Astrological Analysis of our 2016 Democratic Primary Race. BIG POST
Hello everyone!
So as a little hobby of mine that I dabble in from time to time, I like to use Astrology to analyze events of interest in my life sometimes.
Today, I decided to implement this resource to the 2016 Democratic Primary Race, just to see how our candidates match up.
Keep in mind, Astrology is of course, not an exact science, but it does have it's purposes. In the end, this could be a fun experiment.
In my research I have seen some surprisingly acute matchings regarding our candidates and their signs. Also, keep in mind that when reading Zodiac profiles, they aren't EXACT descriptions of the people they are associated with. For instance, Donald Trump's sign, Gemini says that he is intelligent and articulate, and yet... But! It does say that he's inconsistant as well, so that's true.
So, I'm happy to share my research with you here today. So just sit back, and enjoy the read.
---------
First, let's look at Bernie.
Bernie Sanders: Virgo in the Western Zodiac. Snake in the Chinese Zodiac.
Notable stuff: Bernie's symbol is the Star, it means he is full of inner brightness and will stand out in any crowd. He will be seen as special. His angel is Hamaliel, this angel governs logic and shows us what is real, his lessons in personal ethics always improves ones karma.
To quote the Virgo profile from Astrology.com...
Virgo is represented by the Virgin, although this association should not be taken literally. Rather, Virgos tend to take on some of the qualities of a Virgin, things like modesty and humanity. Some might consider them repressed, although Virgos would argue that it's a noble quality, as opposed to a negative one. Most of all, Virgos enjoy indulging their practical and logical side and poring over their projects to the nth degree. To say these folks are good at fact-finding almost understates the case, since Virgos revel in their exacting (some would argue pedantic) behavior and are a whiz with minutiae. Virgos are an asset in the workplace as they can be counted on to get things right the first time, every time -- and no detail will be overlooked. They are also balanced and fair in their assessments in keeping with the Mutable Quality assigned to this sign.
Virgo is ruled by Mercury, and as portrayed in ancient Roman mythology, Mercury wasn't one to sit still for long. This swift-footed god was a bundle of energy, both physically and mentally, and that pretty much sums up the Virgo's makeup. A Virgo's brain is in overdrive most of the time, which is why these folks get so much done. Those born under this sign are also able communicators and use their mental acuity to maximum advantage. All of this brainpower can make Virgos prone to skepticism, and can even lead to the kind of over-think that surely leads to overkill. Thankfully, though, Virgos are also a studious lot and can temper their worst impulses with a bit of careful analysis. Virgos enjoy studying a situation in great detail, whether it's a work project or a friendship. Virgo's are truly interested in understanding things. The bane of many Virgos is the perfectionism that can get in the way of their usual clear thinking. 'I'm not a perfectionist; I'm discriminating!' a Virgo would say, happy in the knowledge that their taste is unparalleled. Along those lines, Virgos are also neat and clean, save for the occasional sloppy Virgo (they do exist). Virgos are also reliable and practical and oh-so-useful to have around.
The Element associated with Virgo is Earth, and in keeping with that, most Virgos are grounded, salt-of-the-earth types. The flash and dash can go to others, since Virgos would much rather be humble and easy-going. That said, Virgos do enjoy material possessions and are (dare we say?) picky about what they bring into their lives. Some might even go as far as calling them self-centered, but it's really more of a desire to surround themselves with what's right -- for them. This knack for discernment also serves Virgos well in business, where their decisions are usually dead-on. Those born under this sign are eminently sensible and use their critical eye well. While Virgos can be worrywarts, they do their best to temper these impulses. However, if this nervousness goes unchecked, it can lead to hypochondria, that ugly skeleton in the Virgo's closet. For that reason, Virgos are extremely health conscious, to the point of being storehouses of information on diet and hygiene. Many Virgos even choose a health or medical career so they won't miss a beat.
The great strength of the Virgo-born is in their practicality, sharp mind and attention to detail. When merged with their willingness to serve, Virgos become essential helpmates. They can be picky -- so what?
And now, let's take a look at Hillary.
Hillary Clinton: Scorpio in the Western Zodiac, Pig in the Chinese Zodiac.
Notable stuff: Hillary's symbol is the Wings. It means she is the source of balance in her world, it brings her contentment.
To quote the Scorpio profile at Astrology.com...
The Scorpion symbolizes Scorpio, and that is no accident. Much like the Scorpion would rather kill itself than be killed, those born under this sign are in ultimate control of their destiny. It is life on the Scorpion's terms, too, since these folks promote their agenda (they are quite the executives) and see to it that things go forward. Others may find this overbearing (it can be) and even self-destructive, but that's the beauty of the Scorpio: they have tremendous regenerative powers, much like the literal Scorpion can lose its tail and promptly grow a new one. Fearless Scorpios rarely lose; they just keep on going, since they are stubborn and determined to succeed (this Scorpio trait is in keeping with the Fixed Quality assigned to this sign). Scorpios work as hard as they do so they can someday sit back and feel satisfied with themselves. These folks are intense, passionate and filled with desire. They're also complex and secretive, so don't expect to get much out of them, lest they become suspicious and exit stage left. It's best not to bet against Scorpios, either, since these folks are surprisingly resourceful.
Scorpio is ruled by Mars and Pluto. Mars was the God of War in ancient Roman mythology and is the first (and most ancient) ruler of Scorpio. When Pluto was discovered in the 20th century, it was also assigned to this sign. Pluto was known as the God of the Underworld in ancient Roman times, so when coupled with Mars, expect some intense energy to head toward Scorpions here on Earth. This planetary combo makes for people who are motivated, penetrating and aware. Scorpions don't miss much, since they are highly attuned to the vibrations of others. They are intuitive, probing and very focused on knowing who's who and what's what. Scorpios can lose their temper (and even become vengeful) when someone gets in their way, so it's best to give them plenty of room. Remember, they're unafraid, and a loss today simply means an opportunity for victory tomorrow.
The Element associated with Scorpio is Water. As opposed to the 'roiling seas' seen in other Water Signs, a better motto for Scorpios would be 'still waters run deep.' Those born under this sign are as emotional as their waterborne brethren, it's just that they're not as likely to show it. The Scorpio's emotions are repressed, kept under cover. Again, these are secrets to be used another day. That said, be aware that these folks are clever, perceptive and always in the mix. Their ability to see into things can sometimes be a curse for Scorpios, however, since they can take an insignificant matter and turn it into a huge slight. Beware the Scorpio who feels crossed! These folks can turn vindictive in no time flat. Luckily, once Scorpios catch their breath, they will return to their usual determined and loyal (albeit strong-willed) ways. Finally, while Scorpios aren't above some subtle manipulation to get what they want, they'd much rather take a scientific, even mystical path. The Scorpio-born are powerful and passionate, qualities that serve them well, as long as they don't let them deteriorate into self-indulgence or compulsion.
Scorpios love competition in both work and play, which is why they'll air it out in sports and games. Extreme sports are right up Scorpio's alley, as is most anything that will test their mettle. They've got to have an adversary, since it makes the game that much more fun. Scorpio's colors? Powerful red and serious black. When it comes to love, though, Scorpios soften up a bit and are caring and devoted with their lovers, even if they do hold on a bit tight.
The great strength of the Scorpio-born is in their determination, passion and motivation. Scorpios don't know the word quit, which is why they usually get the job done. A powerhouse? Like no other.
So, by learning of these astrological qualities in our front runners, we can easily glean two things...
Bernie is a genuine servant that is highly analytical and sharp.
Hillary is an intense fighter that doesn't know the word quit.
But to look even deeper into this new knowledge, we can determine a couple of things through their histories.
First, Bernie...
Ever since getting into the house, he's consistently given passionate speeches proving that he'd never lost touch with the struggles of the people. While Mr. Greenspan was assuming what he thought would be best for us, Bernie chided him publicly with the facts. Bernie didn't quite live amongst the people anymore at this point, but he still knew exactly what we were going through. For a man like Bernie to score the job he got, and still stay attuned to the dredge we suffer, is a great testament to his true dedication for actually doing his job.
He's ruled by Mercury, a god that was light on his feet and always stayed busy. Bernie has missed the least amount of votes compared to all of his competitors in the race thus far, and he has still continued to make multiple stops in many states, while still writing proposals, and still doing his job. At his age, nonetheless.
Also, remember the line above, "Virgos are an asset in the workplace as they can be counted on to get things right the first time, every time." Iraq War anyone?
If we had to pick a negative quality about Bernie, it would be his adamant nature. This adamant nature likely comes from his eastern element being Metal. However, taking note of his current campaign, he's clearly open to being flexible, as long as it makes sense to carry forth the plan of helping those who are asking for it.
And now Hillary...
There are also many people that seem to feel that Hillary is a war hawk. According to her sign of Scorpio though, she is indeed a lover of competition that needs to have an adversary in order to be fulfilled. Her past actions have fit that profile quite well. Add to that the fact that her sign is under Mars, the god of war and it eerily pulls together pretty well.
Another thing that comes up from this analysis is the sentiment that people feel that she acts out of expedience and will change her demeanor based on whom she is communicating with. The sign is under the water element. Water is the element of fluidity, and it is extremely good at adapting and changing in order to go forward. Her sign is indicative of the idea that she acts out of expedience, even if it defeats her, she's quick to recover.
Now, let's not get hasty though. There's a whole world of Astrology out there to glean info from. But, to avoid making this post any longer, I'll quickly give some snippets of their eastern zodiacs.
Bernie's sign being a Snake of the Metal element, he is one to attract a crowd and be watched and heard. Before you gather the western mindset of believing the Snake is malevolent, I must advise you that the Snake sign is anything but. A snake is incredibly lucky with money and very frugal. But being of the Metal element, Bernie can be inflexible in regards to his goals. This can of course be seen as a good thing.
Bernie's zodiac energy is a combination of Earth Virgo and Metal Snake. This combination creates a well grounded, energetic, adamant and popular leader.
Hillary's sign being a Pig of the Fire element, ends up making her a peculiar being. And here's why, she's got this Pig sign, which is to be sincere, kind, serving, and selfless. Yet, opposed to that, she's got 3 big signs that kind of counteract that. To be honest, we know that Hillary has done much good, we can acknowledge that, but it's tough to ignore that 3/4th's of her zodiac energy is glaringly aggressive, while 1/4th of it is compassionate.
Hillary's zodiac energy is a combination of Water Scorpio and Fire Pig. This combination creates a kind but ruthless, determined, fighting leader.
---------------
Welp, I hope this research aids you in some way! Perhaps you'll be enlightened to get into some Astrology yourself? If anything, I hope this was an entertaining read for you all. Sorry about the long post, but I had to do something with my time while the DU was down.
And just so you know, Donald Trump is a combination of Air Gemini and Fire Dog. This combination creates a clever, multi-persona, fierce and defensive leader.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)I'm amazed that you read it all that fast.
Renew Deal
(85,054 posts)And while you're at it, go dig up the DU post from 2004 on how the astrologists say Kerry will win.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)It's entertaining.
It's kind of accurate at times.
It's fun.
It's surprising how closely it parallels to reality at times.
Don't take it too seriously.
Renew Deal
(85,054 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)People can post polls all day.
Polls are just another form of predictions based on gathered data.
This op using astrology isn't even a prediction, but rather an analysis of our primary candidates using gathered data.
Renew Deal
(85,054 posts)And it's not science either.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Yep. It's data.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)it. if you don't like it, why even open the thread? this is someone's hobby that they're sharing. nothing more. good grief
Renew Deal
(85,054 posts)2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)and trashing it? I mean if it's so bad.....maybe ignore it?
Renew Deal
(85,054 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)... but as an occasional poster of THAT group, I can tell you that THIS has more relevance in GDP. Most of the stuff in the astrology group is not as technically discussed as retro's natal charting here and crosses over to esoterical subjects and very little actual astrology.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)why is astrology worth reading.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)Splinter Cell
(703 posts)Anyone that thinks otherwise choked on the kool-aid.
Stevepol
(4,234 posts)Carl Rove's handling of the voting machines in OH decided differently.
Lucky Luciano
(11,857 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)It's a hobby.
And it's a fun experiment.
OMFG ITS SO SERIOUS LETS TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.
No. You can take it as seriously as you'd like.
I just found it interesting how closely the astrological science paralleled to reality. It's not 100% accurate, and I made sure to state that as soon as possible. But to me, of course, as a matter of perspective, this matches damn close.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)... to see what kind of reaction you get when you kick over a hornet's nest?
We see what you did.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Really?
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(101,833 posts)Aquarius, Libra, Leo, Cancer
Ralph, Charles, Paul, Larry
Float, float on
Float on, float on
Float, float, float on
Float on, float on
Float, float on
Float on, float on
Float, float, float on
Float on, float on
Float, float on
Float on, float on
Float, float, float on
Aquarius, Libra, Leo, Cancer
Ralph, Charles, Paul, Larry
Aquarius and my name is Ralph
Now I like a woman who loves her freedom
And I like a woman who can hold her own
And if you fit that description, baby, come with me
Take my hand
Come with me, baby, to Love Land
Let me show you how sweet it could be
Sharing love with me, I want you to
Float, float on
(Come on, come on, come on, baby, yeah yeah)
Float on, float on
(Ooh, ooh, baby)
Float, float, float on
Float on, float on
(Float with me)
longship
(40,416 posts)For fun, this is fine. But to compare it with science, is just plain wrong. It is not just an inexact science. There is no science whatsoever in astrology.
Sorry.
"I can't go for the Virgo."
(Bill Nye, the Science Guy.)
But you've obviously put some work in on this. So I will DURec it on that basis alone, and maybe that you had some fun doing it.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)It did take some work. And it is for fun and entertainment purposes. There are a lot of parallels with reality though. Astrology may not be a concrete science, but there's something about it..
longship
(40,416 posts)But then, I studied physics and astronomy at university. So I would disagree.
My best to you.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)But I assure you the "parallels," or any other incidence with reality, is illusory. It's not there.
Otherwise, carry on.
--imm
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)emsimon33
(3,128 posts)I have book marked it. Thank you for taking the time...even if DU was down.
the poster clearly knows how we may have perceived the post, but nevertheless, I see some parallels. Plus, it is nice to see the two compared in a non-competitive way.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)...it is in my nature to do so."
I hope (D)s don't make the same mistake the frog did.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)It's not any kind of science,it's woo.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(101,833 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 14, 2015, 10:49 PM - Edit history (1)
!
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)don't fit the Leonine archetype.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)That I was going to be laughing followed up by a crappy snarky comment. My thoughts on astrological analysis have not changed but you drew me in. Enjoyed reading it.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)elleng
(141,926 posts)Some people can't recognize civil discussions, I guess!
'SORRY you omitted the Capricorn,
January 18, 1963, Martin O'Malley. Is such forgetfullness part of YOUR Horoscope, retro???
People born on January 18 benefit from being driven, down to earth and disciplined. Just like a true Capricorn, they are romantic and dependable. They love to discover the concepts behind art and philosophy. They dislike being deceived or having to postpone their plans. Those born under this sign enjoy situations where they can work with well defined tasks and stick to a plan already made.
Positive traits: These natives are helpful and honest and often win the dignity consideration of those like them because of their tempered behavior. They are honorable, captivating but also skill and try to have the basic awareness of anything that they work on or even discuss about. They enjoy finding out about and in general knowing a lot of things but at times they might feel stuck because they put too much detail into their work.'
--------------------------
retrowire (3,025 posts)
4. I like O'Malley! BUT
With all the research involved, I only kept my OP to include our 2 frontrunners.
I'm sorry! I would really like a Bernie/O'Malley ticket! Please don't be mad!
I do see him as driven, down to earth and disciplined as well! Very fitting.
Bernie 2016 / RIP Satoru Iwata. Thank you for everything. +Be wary when the media seems to be choosing a favorite candidate for you+
Reply to this post
Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink
Response to retrowire (Reply #4)Mon Dec 14, 2015, 08:15 PM
Star Member elleng (62,911 posts)
5. OK, I'm not mad!
I understand it takes a LOT of work.
Driven, Down to earth and Disciplined!
senz
(11,945 posts)They're rather special to me, and yes, I can see it in him.
elleng
(141,926 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)What a productive way to use your time, I say.
I'll bet if these candidates had their natal charts done and had some of the more significant transits examined during their life, we might get to wonder, given what was operating at that time of their life, how they now have opportunity to excel with those energies.
You are using a different astrology than I like to dabble in. I've been a student of it for lots of years. I find it fascinating.
fierywoman
(8,575 posts)retrowire, dear one, thank you for having the cojones to even put this subject out there on this forum. However, as I understand a lot of astrology ( fierywoman = 5 planets in fire) I must protest your using only the sun signs and some generic internet astro site's definition of those signs as "analysis."
Whether one sign or another is more likely to win is a very least-common denominator approach to the ancient art of astrology. To my fellow readers here, I would suggest you check out astrologers such as starlightnews.com, stevejudd.com (his vlog) or various articles on the mountain astrologer website for astrological political insights. Even Marjorie Orr will give some good insights. One needs to look at the whole chart, transits and progressions to begin to get an idea of what might be coming down the pike.
And for the great skeptics among you, I love the British astrologer Nick Campion's quote: "Astrology is not a belief system, it's a phenomenon."
Rock on, fellow DUers!
retrowire
(10,345 posts)But do keep in mind, my op wasn't trying to predict a winner!
I just wanted to keep it basic for the average reader, I was also pulling data from one of my books on the subject.
fierywoman
(8,575 posts)cosmicone
(11,014 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)No need to go all :rofl'ing: over this post.
I say this as a "cranky Virgo" to you...
's
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Look at how defensive some of the Hillary supporters seem to get. :/ Why?
I wasn't choosing a winner here.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)I love new material to ridicule
MeNMyVolt
(1,095 posts)Wasn't much to begin with.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)it's not for the cranky denier.
I'd love to see horary chart on the primaries.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)entitled to mine. Let it go, Bernard.
840high
(17,196 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)It must have taken a lot of work to produce this. Bernie's a sweet Virgo, and yes, I can see the Scorpio in Hillary -- which might explain her reputation of demanding loyalty and vindictiveness toward those who aren't. My stepmother from hell and also my aunt, one of the kindest, most humble women I've known, were Virgos. As I recall, each sign has a high, noble manifestation and also a low, ignoble one, which might account for the wide differences within a sign. So, for instance, Scorpios can be an eagle or a lizard, depending on whether they take the high or the low road.
When much younger, I needed to know people's sun signs in order to have some idea what to expect from them. My favorite book in this regard was Linda Goodman's Sun Signs, charmingly written and very informative on what is distinct and individual in each of the sun signs. True to form, most people seemed to match the descriptions of their signs. My favorite astrologer for horoscopes is Rob Brezsny http://freewillastrology.com/horoscopes/ He's a cancer, very good person, writes the most intriguing horoscopes I've seen. An astrologer acquaintance did my natal chart back in the 90s. He said it's a very plutonian chart but I can't remember what else he said.
Astrology is fun. Those who delve into it more deeply seem to find it intellectually intriguing in a systems analysis kind of way. I can take it or leave it and cannot understand those who react violently against it. I think that's kind of weird.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Thirties Child
(543 posts)Between Leo Hoover and Leo Clinton, every elected president was either air or earth. We had two in each air sign, one in each earth sign:
Gemini: Kennedy, Bush
Libra: Eisenhower, Carter
Aquarius: FDR, Reagan
Taurus: Truman
Virgo: Johnson
Capricorn: Nixon
If these trends continue, we are headed for fire and water presidents--we've already had one water (Cancer: Bush jr) and two fire (Leo: Obama, Clinton), which pretty much gives, at least the nomination, to Scorpio Hillary. This will deny the presidency not only to Virgo Sanders (which makes me sad), but also to Gemini Trump (which makes me happy).
Sigh. I hope I'm way off base.
My two cents.