Bernie Sanders Voted For The Act That Helped Crash The Economy

[Historic NY]

Now we know why Bernie Sanders is so anxious to change the subject to Glass-Steagall when the Wall Street Crash of 2008 comes up. It turn out Mr. Independent Progressive (or is it Progressive Independent?) voted for the 2000 legislation that deregulated derivatives, credit default swaps and other exotic financial instruments that tanked the economy eight years later.

Let’s assume that Sanders never read the background report on the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000. (Yeah, like Hillary Clinton never read the background report on the resolution in support of Dubya’s invasion of Iraq, something that Sanders has repeatedly pounded her on.)

But there it is in black and white, or rather red and blue: Sanders’ vote in the House on the very legislation that greased the skids for banks and other financial institutions to run roughshod without any messy government oversight.

The act was stealthily tucked into a bloated 11,000 page conference report when no one was looking, and passed by a lopsided 377-4 margin during a lame-duck session with a veto-proof majority -- not that it needed one. President Clinton, who had been lobbying behind the scenes in support of the act while publicly harrumphing about the evils of deregulation, signed it into law without batting an eye.

Buried in the act was a yummy provision exempting Enron and other companies from energy trading regulatory oversight.

Not coincidentally, in the years before the energy giant self destructed, it was a generous contributor to Texas Senator Phil Gramm, he of Gramm-Leach-Bliley, and later presidential candidate John MCain’s “financial adviser.” Gramm's wife Wendy was paid over $1 million in salary, stock options, dividends and other goodies from 1993 to 2001 as an Enron board member, but of course was deaf, dumb and blind to the energy company's rampant books cooking with the acquiescence of the late unlamented Arthur Andersen accounting company.

Sanders’ complicity in the passage of the Commodities Futures Modernization Act may help explain his fixation on restoration of the Depression-era Glass-Steagall Act, which barred commercial banks from investing in the very speculative financial deals which contributed significantly to the 2008 meltdown. (President Clinton also supported the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which overturned Glass-Steagall


http://crooksandliars.com/2015/12/surprise-bernie-sanders-voted-act-crashed

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/106-2000/h540

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-blumenthal/how-congress-rushed-a-bil_b_181926.html

[beam me up scottie]

1. The Bankster Bernie meme again? This was debunked months ago.

Last edited Thu Dec 17, 2015, 03:33 AM - Edit history (1)

And of course everyone knows that Bernie voted for the bill before the Senate modified it, which ruined the bill and the economy.

So the house version he voted for wouldn't have CRASHED THE ECONOMY.

Classic bait and switch.

So much DRAMA over a debunked meme.

And I bet you really thought you had a gotcha.

[Historic NY]

3. Really it was debunked what did he do change his vote..............

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/106-2000/h540

look under VT. its still the same vote.

[beam me up scottie]

4. Read the thread, he voted for the house bill, before the senate amended it.

[Historic NY]

5. The bill sailed through both chambers of Congress, with few lawmakers

even aware of the major new deregulatory changes. That means it passed. The dog ate my homework doesn't apply here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-wall-street_5617f634e4b0dbb8000e5a58

[beam me up scottie]

6. You're not paying attention, the version he voted for wouldn't have crashed the economy.

From this post: only the last three paragraphs of the post are about the Commodities Futures bill, the beginning is about Gramm, Leach, Blilely, aka repeal of Glass Steagall.

More here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1277&pid=9158

And here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=645327

And here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251859974

When Sanders voted for the House version of the CFMA in October 2000, the bill was not yet a total debacle for Wall Street accountability advocates. The legislative text Sanders supported was clearly designed to curtail regulatory oversight. The GOP-authored bill was crafted as a response to a proposal from ex-Commodity Futures Trading Commission Chair Brooksley Born to ramp up oversight of derivatives. But the version Sanders initially voted for was more benign than the final, Gramm-authored version, and it didn't draw any of the protests that the 1999 repeal of Glass-Steagall did. In October 2000, the bill passed the House by a vote of 377 to 4 (51 members didn't vote), and then sat on the shelf for weeks.

But in December, Gramm -- after coordinating with top Clinton administration officials -- added much harder-edged deregulatory language to the bill, then attached the entire package to a must-pass 11,000-page bill funding the entire federal government. After Gramm's workshopping, the legislation included new language saying the federal government "shall not exercise regulatory authority with respect to, a covered swap agreement offered, entered into, or provided by a bank." That ended all government oversight of derivatives purchased or traded by banks. He also created the so-called "Enron Loophole," which barred federal oversight of energy trading on electronic platforms.

This was an era in which voting against funding the federal government was considered a major governance faux pas. The bill sailed through both chambers of Congress, with few lawmakers even aware of the major new deregulatory changes.

Sanders has since hammered the CFMA, its architects and specific provisions in Senate hearings and on the Senate floor. He helped push through legislation to close the Enron loophole in 2008. He voted against the bank bailouts of 2008, and has cried foul on heavy Wall Street speculation in the derivatives market for oil, saying it needlessly drives up gas prices. He has voted to break up the largest banks, and supports reinstating the Depression-era firewall between conventional lending and risky securities trading.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-wall-street_5617f634e4b0dbb8000e5a58

You really think the other Hillary supporters wouldn't be all over this if it was a real gotcha?

It's a dud, sorry.

Bernie didn't crash the economy.

[Historic NY]

7. Its right here this is his vote.............there isn't another.

Who debunked it .... https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/106-2000/h540

[beam me up scottie]

8. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!

[bvf]

74. Can't say you didn't try. n/t

[Katashi_itto]

75. Maybe they are functionally iliterate?

[NCTraveler]

80. You are attempting to make the case that Sanders...

Didn't read the final version of the bill he voted yes on, didn't pay attention to it as it went through the senate, and it's Clinton supporters with the literacy problem. Seems your angst should be directed at Sanders literacy; not duers.

[Katashi_itto]

109. I rest my case.

[madokie]

81. You tried

but the blind by choice will never be able to see. The operative words here are blind by choice

[merrily]

10. I de bunked it. The amendment that caused the problems was added in the Senate, AFTER Bernie voted

for the bill. The Clinton White House had lobbied Democrats hard for the Commodities Futures Financial Services Bill, as well as for Gramm, Leach, Blilely (aka repeal of Glass Steagall), so that Clinton could point to an allegedly veto proof majority. However, Benie voted against Gramm, Leach Bliely and voted for the Commodities Futures bill before the odious Senate amendment was added to it.

You should delete your deceptive OP, whether you intended deception or not.

[beam me up scottie]

11. Yes you did, and it was magnificent!

[merrily]

12. Thank you, BMUS, but the

IOW, I had done a post on the Commodities Futures Financial Services Act before George II's OP. So, when I saw his OP, I knew it was misleading as to Bernie and posted. I only wish I had seen George II's OP and this one before the disinformation got out there.

[beam me up scottie]

13. I linked to your post and others but it went right over the op's head.

I can't blame them, this must be such a crushing disappointment.

[merrily]

15. That two posted on this same January 2000 Act makes me wonder about the source of the disinformation

Where are they getting this?

[beam me up scottie]

17. Some moron at Crooks and Liars who didn't do his homework.

Probably has delusions of being the guy who finally EXPOSED Bernie for the fraud Hillary supporters knew he was all along.

All those decades of fighting against the big banks?

A clever ruse.

[merrily]

19. Do we think Crooks and Liars cares about the facts?

[beam me up scottie]

21. He also writes for the Moderate Voice if that tells you anything.

[merrily]

22. Well, there are honest moderates and then there are those whose ends "justify" their meanness.

[beam me up scottie]

23. He's a blogger, and not a very good one. You can see why if you read the C&L article.

[merrily]

24. My real question is whether trying to apprise him of the reality makes sense or would be a waste of

time.

Once again, though, the Clintonites waste time and energy proving Bernie is better!

[beam me up scottie]

25. You could add to the comments there, it doesn't look like anyone realized

that it was a bait and switch.

oops, I was wrong, from the comments:

Bernie voted on the bill in October . " But in DECEMBER, Gramm -- after coordinating with top Clinton administration officials -- added much harder-edged deregulatory language to the bill "

It's a very short piece, high on snark and low on facts.

It links to this much more detailed article but I don't think he bothered to read past the headline:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-blumenthal/how-congress-rushed-a-bil_b_181926.html

[merrily]

27. Great, BMUS. At least the info is there, if the blogger or anyone here gives a crap about reality.

[JDPriestly]

53. Only four members voted against it. Two Democrats and two Republicans.

One of the Republicans was a Paul.

This attempt to blacken Bernie's reputation is a fail. A big fail.

Sorry if I am impatient with this post, but this meme has already been debunked.

I already did the research on it and debunked it. Now here it is again.

Clinton wanted this bill to pass and signed it.

It's not Bernie's doing.

[MrMickeysMom]

145. Go back and learn some more history, Historic...

[Cha]

2. K AND R! Thank you HNY~

[merrily]

9. Another DUer already tried this. The bill was amended AFTER Bernie voted for it.

Bernie voted for it in the House; the amendment that de-regulated credit default swaps and other things was added in the Senate.

[RandySF]

14. Did he vote for the conference report?

[merrily]

16. You seem overly desperate to discredit Bernie, but you want me to do the research for you first?

Did the Clinton White House lobby for the bill? Did Clinton sign it?

[RandySF]

28. Bill Clinton obviously signed it

But your the one insisting that Bernie did not vote for the language that deregulated derivatives. However, if he voted for the final version, then he voted for deregulation. And yes, you're the one making the claim, so you should do the research.

[merrily]

32. Sorry, no. My claim is that Bernie voted for the Bill before the Senate amendment was added and that

claim has been amply proven on this thread. So, now, you are not doing your own research AND misstating my claim. 0 for 2.

[RandySF]

34. So he voted no after it was added?

[RandySF]

40. Yes, he voted for the final version.

The act was stealthily tucked into a bloated 11,000 page conference report when no one was looking, and passed by a lopsided 377-4 margin during a lame-duck session with a veto-proof majority -- not that it needed one. President Clinton, who had been lobbying behind the scenes in support of the act while publicly harrumphing about the evils of deregulation, signed it into law without batting an eye.

Buried in the act was a yummy provision exempting Enron and other companies from energy trading regulatory oversight.


http://crooksandliars.com/2015/12/surprise-bernie-sanders-voted-act-crashed

[beam me up scottie]

46. HuffPo already covered the bait and switch.

Bernie Sanders Has One Pro-Wall Street Vote
His vote to deregulate derivatives doesn't fit his broader voting record.

Bernie Sanders' campaign message is built around a central theme -- wresting economic power away from Wall Street and returning it to working people. It's a message that closely tracks the voting record of the self-described socialist senator from Vermont.
But there is one significant blemish on that record. In 2000, Sanders voted for the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, a landmark bill that blocked federal agencies from regulating credit default swaps -- the complex contracts at the heart of the 2008 financial crisis.
The CFMA's chief architect was then-Sen. Phil Gramm (R-Texas), a die-hard deregulator who joined Swiss banking giant UBS after leaving the Senate. Today, he's essentially the rhetorical opposite of Sanders, appearing in congressional hearings to literally bemoan the low pay of multimillionaire CEOs.

By 2000, Sanders was already an unpopular figure with big banks. The prior year, he had vigorously opposed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act, a Depression-era law which barred conventional banks from engaging in risky securities trading. Its repeal is widely viewed as fueling a merger binge that made companies massive and complex -- a catalyst for the banking collapse.
In a speech on the House floor, then-Rep. Sanders hammered the repeal bill for creating new "taxpayer exposure to potential losses should a financial conglomerate fail."

...

But in December, Gramm -- after coordinating with top Clinton administration officials -- added much harder-edged deregulatory language to the bill, then attached the entire package to a must-pass 11,000-page bill funding the entire federal government. After Gramm's workshopping, the legislation included new language saying the federal government "shall not exercise regulatory authority with respect to, a covered swap agreement offered, entered into, or provided by a bank." That ended all government oversight of derivatives purchased or traded by banks. He also created the so-called "Enron Loophole," which barred federal oversight of energy trading on electronic platforms.

This was an era in which voting against funding the federal government was considered a major governance faux pas. The bill sailed through both chambers of Congress, with few lawmakers even aware of the major new deregulatory changes.
Sanders has since hammered the CFMA, its architects and specific provisions in Senate hearings and on the Senate floor. He helped push through legislation to close the Enron loophole in 2008. He voted against the bank bailouts of 2008, and has cried foul on heavy Wall Street speculation in the derivatives market for oil, saying it needlessly drives up gas prices. He has voted to break up the largest banks, and supports reinstating the Depression-era firewall between conventional lending and risky securities trading.
Wall street watchdogs sing his praises.

With one exception.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-wall-street_5617f634e4b0dbb8000e5a58

Watching Hillary supporters try to paint Bernie as a friend to banks is fun though.

Why don't you ask the bankers which candidate they prefer?

Oh, that's right, they already voted with their wallets.

[RandySF]

48. I asked a simple question that someone didn't want to answer.

So I went and found the answer. Deal with it.

[beam me up scottie]

50. Hillary Clinton got nearly $1.6 million from big banks in 2013

Hillary Clinton got nearly $1.6 million from big banks in 2013
BY GREG GORDON - JULY 31, 2015

Washington - Hillary Clinton earned nearly $10 million in speaking fees in 2013, including almost $1.6 million from major Wall Street banks, she disclosed Friday along with releasing eight years of personal income tax returns.

...

The totals brought the couples’ combined post-White House speaking income to more than $150 million, an off-the-charts sum when compared with other present and former U.S. politicians.

...

In 2013, however, she accepted $1,575,000 from Wall Street banks that have been blamed for their roles in the 2008 financial crisis, including $675,000 from Goldman Sachs, and $225,000 each from UBS Wealth Management, Bank of America, Morgan Stanley and Deutsche Bank.

The Clintons also disclosed that UBS Wealth Management paid a $175,000 speaking fee to Bill Clinton in May 2013. Together, UBS paid the couple $1.9 million for speeches since 2011.

The Wall Street Journal reported this week that shortly after taking office as secretary of state in 2009, Hillary Clinton intervened in negotiations with the Swiss government to release long-confidential information on the UBS accounts of thousands of American citizens suspected of evading U.S. taxes. Clinton’s intervention resulted in a settlement providing for the release of information on 4,450 accounts, not the 52,000 sought by the Internal Revenue Service, the Journal reported...

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article29711881.html#storylink=cpy

Guess who their preferred candidate is?

Deal with that.

[RandySF]

51. Yes, someone who understand finance beyond one talking point.

[beam me up scottie]

52. Looks like she understands it to the tune of millions of dollars in donations.

[merrily]

69. LOL! You don't need to know finance to collect donations. And if she does know, she should have

clued Bill in before he lobbied so hard for a so-called "veto proof" majority for, and signed into law, repeal of Glass Steagall and the Commodities Futures Financial Services Act of 2000. And a few of his other bills that helped give us the economic collapse of 2008.

[beam me up scottie]

70. I think they were both looking towards the future.

They were "broke" when they left the White House after all.

[merrily]

72. He still needed to build a Presidential library and she needed to build Senatorial and Presidential

campaigns. And they needed to become hundred millionaires.

[melanice]

18. Bernie Sanders Voted For The Act That Helped Crash The Economy

hello its okay for me it help grow the economy

[merrily]

20. For the truth, see Replies 6 and 9, among others.

The reality is that the Clinton White House lobbied hard for both repeal of Glass Steagall (aka Gramm, Leach, Blilely) and the Commodities Futures Financial Services Act of 2000, while Bernie voted against GLB and voted for the Commodities Futures bill BEFORE the troublesome provision was added to it. Bill Clinton, however, signed it AFTER the catastrophic provision had been added.

[RandySF]

30. You do understand how a bill becomes law, right?

The Senate and House meet to hammer out differences and a final version goes before both chambers. So it would have been up for another House vote before the president signed it.

[merrily]

38. And now, you're changing the subject!. O for 3. I knew you were heading there. nt

[RandySF]

41. You're avoiding.

[merrily]

43. Sorry, no, again,but you were already 0 for 3. Do your own research if you wish. If you don't

wish, at least stop trying to pretend I have some obligation to do it for you. Or don't stop. The more you post, the worse you're making yourself look.

[VanillaRhapsody]

110. You have an obligation to support your claim

you failed..

[KMOD]

26. K & R

for the truth, and for pissing off the right people.

[merrily]

29. Read the thread. The OP's claim is not the truth.

[beam me up scottie]

31. But 'pissing off the right people' is IMPORTANT!

Some people don't care about facts, that should be clear by now. Anyone who reads the thread will realize that Bernie voted for the house version.

And the ones who don't care don't matter.

They're going to rec it because like they said, they love "pissing off the right people".

I think it's hillaryous.

[merrily]

35. Well, imagining that people correcting the record means that people are pissed off is

interesting. I always wonder how correcting the record seems like anger and hate to some posters.

[beam me up scottie]

39. Right? Who's pissed off?

I love the smell of desperation in the morning.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. You'd be surprised as to how many people mistake the meaning when I wave my privates at them....

Sometimes the motive is because it feels good.

[merrily]

47. And, sometimes, it's simply to prove that people who said you have no privates to wave are mistaken.

Wait: Why the hell are we talking about your waving your privates at people?

Put on some trousers and zip your fly.

[tazkcmo]

91. Not surprising.

Considering that posting Sec. Clinton's own words and actions is also considered a smear.

"Sen. Hillary Clinton said she "misspoke" last week when she gave a dramatic description of her arrival in Bosnia 12 years ago, recounting a landing under sniper fire.

Clinton was responding to a question Monday from the Philadelphia Daily News' editorial board about video footage of the event that contradicted her assertion that her group "ran with our heads down" from the plane to avoid sniper fire at the Tuzla Air Base.

Tommy Vietor, a spokesman for rival Sen. Barack Obama's campaign, said the Bosnia claim was part of "a growing list of instances in which Sen. Clinton has exaggerated her role in foreign and domestic policymaking."

Clinton told the paper's editorial board it was a "minor blip." "

She said it. She did it. Nobody but her made it up yet it's a "smear". Same thing with TPP, Keystone, LGBT rights. No thank you.

[merrily]

106. I do very few OP's compared to other posters. So, I am most often replying.

As I understand it, when it comes to me, the steps are as follow:

1. Someone posts negative bs about Bernie Sanders or positive bs about Hillary.

2. I reply to correct the record. I don't call Hillary any names.

3. The response is, then, or on another occasion, I am pissed off, bitter, extreme, a hater, etc.


Someone in that scenario fits the description in step 3. I think it's the person who made the post described in Step 3 (which is never me--I don't do that kind of post.)

[tazkcmo]

107. #3a

Ask for your loyalty oath to vote for Sec Clinton when (not if) she wins the primary.

[merrily]

114. No one has asked me for that in a while.

Perhaps I have made my position on McCarthy-type loyalty oaths clear enough by now.

[KMOD]

37. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[ConservativeDemocrat]

33. Attacking Bernie over this is like attacking Hillary over the TPP

In both cases, they were for previous versions, but didn't like what the final result was, so changed their minds then.

Fellow Hillary supporters - please don't sink down to the haters' level.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[merrily]

36. Um, no. The difference is that Hillary didn't change her mind about TPP until her primary campaign.

False equivalency. And see Reply 35.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

56. Well, hater, you may chose to think so...

...but you are completely wrong. The TPP was not finalized and was undergoing constant substantial revisions until then. By the time it was released, Secretary Clinton decided she didn't like what she was hearing about some of the deals slipped into it, and had already come out against it. So the equivalency is completely apropos: they were both for earlier iterations, but once they saw what was in the final version, decided they couldn't support it.

I really can't keep you from hating, but thank you for the fine example of the kind of behavior I don't want Clinton supporters to sink to, when speaking about fellow Democrats we don't happen to support for the nomination.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[merrily]

57. Please. It's Hillary "evolving" for her Presidential primary campaign. And see Reply 35 again.

And maybe strive for a more mature response.

Sanders never changed his mind about the bill. He simply did not vote for the language the OP accuses him of having voted for.

[beam me up scottie]

58. Hater? Someone's been watching Taylor Swift videos again.

[merrily]

59. Maybe someone's coffee has clouds in it?

(Taylor Swift and Carly Simon performed You're So Vain together. Swift called it "the ultimate break up song" and Swift should know.)

But, don't get me wrong: Tay Tay is in my crew and she sure knows how to shake her tutu!

I guess Conservative Democrat is just not into me--and I'll just have to bear up under that grief and soldier on somehow. I hope I count on your support in that.

[beam me up scottie]

61. Not a Tay Tay fan but I love videos!

Here's a great Christmas classic, maybe it'll lift Conservative Democrat's spirits:

[merrily]

62. Did you intentionally post The Kinks because of my observation about the smilie

or did you make that choice subconsciously?

BTW, I love music vids too.

ETA: Let's not get carried away: I never said I was a Tay Tay fan! I just put up with a lot from members of my crew. I do love You're So Vain, though, not just the song, but the whole guessing game, the auction, the whole nine.

[beam me up scottie]

63. It was a coincidence!

We were posting our favourite Christmas song videos the other day and that came to mind.

In keeping with the theme of this thread:

[merrily]

67. As a Freudian purist, I cannot help but point out there is no such thing as coincidence.

(That's bs. I'm not a Freudian at all, just giving you a hard time, for no apparent reason.)

Thanks for the Pink Floyd video.

[VanillaRhapsody]

111. You want someone inflexible?

THAT is exactly what Teabaggers want!

[pnwmom]

60. The critical difference is that Bernie voted for the final version of this bill

and that Hillary didn't vote for the final TPP.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

42. I guess it's all over. We have no choice but to run to Hillary.

[RandySF]

45. So some of you can stop covering your ears and eyes, he voted for the final version

The act was stealthily tucked into a bloated 11,000 page conference report when no one was looking, and passed by a lopsided 377-4 margin during a lame-duck session with a veto-proof majority -- not that it needed one. President Clinton, who had been lobbying behind the scenes in support of the act while publicly harrumphing about the evils of deregulation, signed it into law without batting an eye.

Buried in the act was a yummy provision exempting Enron and other companies from energy trading regulatory oversight.


http://crooksandliars.com/2015/12/surprise-bernie-sanders-voted-act-crashed

[beam me up scottie]

49. 'The act was stealthily tucked into a bloated 11,000 page conference report when no one was looking'

This was already common knowledge:

But in December, Gramm -- after coordinating with top Clinton administration officials -- added much harder-edged deregulatory language to the bill, then attached the entire package to a must-pass 11,000-page bill funding the entire federal government. After Gramm's workshopping, the legislation included new language saying the federal government "shall not exercise regulatory authority with respect to, a covered swap agreement offered, entered into, or provided by a bank." That ended all government oversight of derivatives purchased or traded by banks. He also created the so-called "Enron Loophole," which barred federal oversight of energy trading on electronic platforms.

This was an era in which voting against funding the federal government was considered a major governance faux pas. The bill sailed through both chambers of Congress, with few lawmakers even aware of the major new deregulatory changes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-wall-street_5617f634e4b0dbb8000e5a58

[chervilant]

54. Do you think that some are grasping hard

the flimsy straw that is purportedly the only time Senator Sanders voted on a bill that benefited banks?

There's an air of desperation -- a miasma of petulance and despondency...

Mayhap, it's a reaction to the record-breaking 2 million donors?

[beam me up scottie]

55. That could be.

They do seem quite desperate to make him responsible for the crash.

If I supported the candidate who took millions of dollars in donations from big banks I don't think I'd be bringing up this subject.

Maybe they didn't think it through?

[Divernan]

66. Or perhaps some PPP-ers are worried about making their rent?

Whatever the cause, there definitely is an air of desperation - one wants to put protective helmets on their heads, lest that incessant banging against facts and realities causes further damage.

And isn't that terrific about Bernie's record-breaking 2 million donations?!?! Mine has been monthly to him for about 6 months now.

[joshcryer]

68. So if it was 376-5 we could all play the moral high ground?

That shit was going to pass anyway. Just like CISA is going to pass even though a lot of Democrats are against it. What can you do? The whole idea of riders sucks but it's just how it is.

[Helen Borg]

64. In other words: Hillary is desperate!

[VanillaRhapsody]

112. hahahahaha....

in their dreams

[Helen Borg]

124. You know, the little fly near Hillary says it all!

[VanillaRhapsody]

125. It says Loonix is gone!

what were you thinking?

Judging by your low post count....assuming you have no idea about the meme....

[Thinkingabout]

65. K & R

This act was a big factor in the financial crisis, this has not been debunked, it is a part of Sanders record. He is talking about Wall Street abuses and he voted for the bill which lead to the crisis. His votes is his record, he can't run from it, it is the record.

[tazkcmo]

94. Thinking about distortion.

The verbage was added after he voted. Think about it.

[Thinkingabout]

103. Think about this, it is his record, it will not be changed. Who is doing the distortion?

[tazkcmo]

105. You.

By ignoring the fact that the language in the bill changed after he voted on it but you know this. You must still be thinking about the lazy people that refuse to do any work at all which cause you to reject single payer health care or those middle class families making 250k/year. No wonder you're confused.

[Thinkingabout]

108. Okay, by your analogy Hillary's vote on IWR is okay because Bush misused the bill and did not

follow the instructions of the bill. Now we can take her off the record on the IWR vote, Sanders vote on CFMA will be overlooked the same.

[beam me up scottie]

113. Except she did more than vote for it, she actually lied about Saddam to get us into the war.

She read the instructions, rewrote them and sold her version to others.

[Thinkingabout]

118. Nope, you can 't change the rules in the middle of the game, excusing Sanders votes will also

excuse Hillary's votes.

[beam me up scottie]

119. There are no rules, just facts. This isn't a game, she lied to promote the war.

She doesn't get a pass because you think she should.

She admitted it was a mistake, why can't you?

[Thinkingabout]

123. Got it, Sanders knew or should have known what was in the CFMA before he

Voted on it. Hillary has said she made a mistake on voting for the IWR, and now Sanders has his record of votes, no problem here.

[djean111]

71. Awwww, if only Bernie's supporters were one-issue supporters.

There is a veritable smorgasbord of reasons I do not support Hillary. I don't think today's tactic of pointing out one issue with Sanders is going to herd any of Bernie's supporters into the Hillary chute.

Literally nothing that can be said about Bernie would cause me to start supporting Hillary. Nothing.

[VanillaRhapsody]

115. They aren't?

coulda fooled me!

How IS his Foreign Policy coming along by the way?

[stonecutter357]

73. K&R!

[Scuba]

76. Since your claim has been debunked multiple times why don't you self-delete and avoid further ...

... embarassment?

Or are you sticking to a proven lie in a lame attempt to smear a Democratic candidate for President?

[Thinkingabout]

126. A voting record of congressional members is record, no debunking, it is a registered bistory of this

Event.

[Scuba]

128. So you're going to stick to the lie. Got it.

That's pathetic, and you should be ashamed.

[Thinkingabout]

132. It is his record, I did not do the voting. I am not happy with his vote.

[Scuba]

133. But you're lying about the clause in question being part of the bill Bernie voted for.

Lying. Lying. Lying. It's made clear in THIS thread, yet you stick to the lie.

[Thinkingabout]

138. Bye, I am not a liar.

[NCTraveler]

77. I have talked about this before. K&R

Sanders really does get a free pass on damn near everything. From voting for regime change in Iraq, voting against a pathway to citizenship for over ten million people, to voting for deregulation; they simply spin it away. They truly claim Sanders didn't know what he was voting for when he voted yes on the final legislation. It was not omitted when he did so. He clearly voted for it. Not something added later as they are trying to spin. The final vote is there for all to see. Once that argument of theirs was debunked, they moved on to Sandets was tricked.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

[beam me up scottie]

79. Except Bernie voted against regime change in 2002 when it really mattered.

He implored others to stop Bush because he knew what would happen:

Hillary on the other hand, lied about Saddam harboring the terrorists responsible for 9/11 to get us into the war:

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members...

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well, effects American security.

This is a very difficult vote, this is probably the hardest decision I've ever had to make. Any vote that might lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction."

She even claimed that what we did to Iraq was a gift:

Hillary Goes Orwellian on Iraq

Hillary Clinton may fancy she opposes the war in Iraq, but she has a funny way of showing it. On Monday night in Austin, she had this to say about what the United States military has done over the past five years:

"We have given them the gift of freedom, the greatest gift you can give someone. Now it is really up to them to determine whether they will take that gift."

There was nothing accidental about this line. She delivered it in response to two Iraq veterans introduced at a town hall meeting at the Austin Convention Center by her friend and campaign surrogate Ted Danson. She liked the line enough that she delivered it again a couple of hours later, at a campaign-closing rally at a basketball arena in south Austin.

"The gift of freedom" is, of course, a curious way to describe an unprovoked invasion and occupation causing hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths and leaving just about every aspect of life chaotic and fraught with daily dangers. To then lay responsibility for the mess on the Iraqis -- we did our bit, now you do yours -- is the worst kind of dishonesty, a complete abdication of moral principles. It's the sort of thing George Bush has said to justify his decision both to launch the invasion in the first place and then stay the course -- a course Hillary Clinton has spent many months telling primary and caucus voters she thinks was misconceived from the start.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-gumbel/hillary-goes-orwellian-on_b_89729.html

Bernie trusted and supported President Clinton - a Democrat, and he was right to do so, we didn't invade Iraq.

Hillary trusted and supported President Bush - a Republican, and she was wrong. We illegally invaded Iraq, hundreds of thousands died, millions were displaced and ISIS formed in the power vacuum.


You keep comparing doing the right thing to doing the wrong thing.

Like your candidate you have a very skewed remembrance of history.

I'm going to start referring to it as 'Hillary Vision'.

[NCTraveler]

82. Fact. Sanders was for it years before that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

Let's start with a morning hug and have a nice civil day. No reason to whitewash Sanders votes. I would never do so with Clinton. Happy Thursday!!!!

[beam me up scottie]

83. You keep posting that link like it proves I'm wrong.

No matter how hard you try you can't blame the Iraq war on Bernie, he knew what Bush was doing and not only did he vote against it, he tried to warn others.

You can't compare Hillary's trust in Bush to Bernie's trust in Clinton.

Bernie never pushed for war, Hillary wanted the war so desperately she lied to get us into it.

Bernie was right, Hillary was wrong and we're still paying the price.

Find another hound, that dog won't hunt.

[NCTraveler]

85. I don't blame the Iraq war on Sanders.

I blame it on Bush.

Lets join together in saying Fuck Bush.

[beam me up scottie]

86. I blame everyone who supported it, voted for it and lied to get us into it.

You just said Bernie shouldn't get a pass even though he voted against it and now you're giving Hillary a pass for voting for it?

That makes no sense.

[NCTraveler]

87. I don't think any of them should get a free pass.

Neither Clinton or Sanders. I also blame the war itself on Bush.

Somehow you think supporting regime change in the years running up to the war is no biggie. Building support for regime change played no role. We both know that isn't true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

The war is the fault of Bush. There are many dirty hands in the years prior helping to build support. That goes for both Clintons and Sanders.



That's both Clintons, Sanders, and the two of us. Hugging it out.

[beam me up scottie]

88. So Bernie's to blame even though he voted AGAINST the war?

According to your "logic" Bernie voted against the war but somehow he's still responsible for it.

Because he should have KNOWN that the Republicans would steal the election and go on to declare war on a nation that never attacked us on 9/11.

Bernie wasn't psychic so it's his fault too.

[NCTraveler]

93. No, Bush is to blame. Nt

[beam me up scottie]

96. You just said Bernie shouldn't get a pass:

NCTraveler (10,749 posts)

87. I don't think any of them should get a free pass.

Neither Clinton or Sanders. I also blame the war itself on Bush.

Somehow you think supporting regime change in the years running up to the war is no biggie. Building support for regime change played no role. We both know that isn't true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

The war is the fault of Bush. There are many dirty hands in the years prior helping to build support. That goes for both Clintons and Sanders.

That's both Clintons, Sanders, and the two of us. Hugging it out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=904926

How was he supposed to know we would get attacked on 9/11 and the next president would use it as an excuse to invade Iraq?

He voted against the war, against regime change when it mattered, he tried to get others to do the right thing.

Hillary knew Saddam wasn't responsible and she lied to promote the war anyway.

[NCTraveler]

97. Correct.

I don't give Clinton or Sanders a free pass. Bush still owns it. Amazingly simple concept.

[beam me up scottie]

98. Bullshit, he voted against the war so he's not responsible for it.

If you didn't commit a crime you're not guilty of committing a crime.

Amazingly simple concept.

[NCTraveler]

102. You are truly saying he didn't support it...

In the years running up to the war. No need to whitewash history as you are.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

[beam me up scottie]

104. Posting it three times isn't magic you know.

It doesn't change the fact that he didn't support the Iraq war and voted against it in 2002.

If Hillary and others had listened to Bernie, Bush never would have had the votes to go.

So unless you think not supporting something is the same thing as supporting something, no, he didn't support it.

And if you do think 1 - 1 = 1 then I can't help you.

It would be like arguing with a religious fundamentalist about evolution.

[NCTraveler]

120. We all know the Iraq Liberation Act helped to build public support for regime change in Iraq.

There is simply no disputing it. Bush himself often referenced it as proof of what needed to be done.

Precursor to war

President George W. Bush often referred to the Act and its findings to argue that the Clinton Administration supported regime change in Iraq and further that it believed that Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction. The Act was cited as a basis of support in the Congressional Authorization for use of Military Force Against Iraq in October 2002.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

"Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government."

https://www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/house-bill/4655

It clearly helped to build momentum for regime change in Iraq among the American people. There is simply no debating that. Facts are facts.

"If Hillary and others had listened to Bernie, Bush never would have had the votes to go."

I fully agree with that. It would have been much easier if Sanders wouldn't have supported regime change in the years before.


The war itself is on Bush. That doesn't mean that we need to whitewash all of the support built throughout decades. You are literally trying to say it all just happened in 2002. Cheney and Rummy were in it decades before that. I won't clear them for their actions running up to the war simply because the vote was in 2002. Amazing that is the argument you are making. No way in the world will I wash their hand from their decades of building support for war in Iraq as you are doing. It's Republicans war. Obama has drawn it down. That's what having an adult in the Oval Office will do for us. I can't wait to get Clinton elected so we can continue to build off his success and put republicans destructive policies in the dust bin. I don't give Clinton or Sanders a pass in their building of public opinion for regime change. At the same time it is a republican war being ended by democrats.



Huddle up team. The primary is almost over. It has been one of the most polite primaries ever and it's time to come together to take on the republicans. We have unified behind Clinton and the goal is clear. Continue to hold the WH, continue the success of Obama, build numbers in congress, and step it up another notch.

Break!!!!!

[beam me up scottie]

121. Your logic is faulty, Bernie voted against the war so he's not to blame for it.

It really is just that simple.

You should have saved yourself the time and effort.

[Vattel]

99. It is absurd to use the ILA to blame Sanders for the invasion of Iraq.

The ILA included a clause saying explicitly that it was not to be understood as an authorization for the use of military force. This fact is always conveniently left out by those who want to say that Sanders' vote for the ILA means that he too is at fault for the invasion of Iraq.

[beam me up scottie]

100. It's bizarre to think that voting against something is the same thing as voting for it.

Bernie trusted Clinton to do the right thing in 1998, he knew better than to trust Bush so he voted against the war in 2002.

For that he gets blamed.

Down is up, black is white, and we are through the wormhole.

[Vattel]

139. Even if Bush had been in offcie in 1998, the ILA would not have authorized him to

use military force.

[Armstead]

92. So why the hell do you think Sanders votedf for it?

This bullshit implies that there were dark motives. Maybe Goldman Sachs and BOA bought Bernie's loyalty for a day? Mayber they said "Okay Bernie we're going to sneak $10 Million to you under trhe table if you just look the otehr way and totally change your entire philosophy and beliefs, and ignore everything you have been publicly opposing -- just this once."

And as part of the deal they allowed Bernie to go back to being Bernie after that one purchased vote?

Total bullshit and a deliberate distortion.

[passiveporcupine]

147. Check out my posts at the bottom of this thread

You could not be more wrong. Read the Huffpo link in the OP. I mean read the whole damn thing. It explains that it happened in the Senate, long after the house has passed the bill...that the deregulation was added as a rider while in the Senate, and slipped in during a lame duck session in Dec while everyone was haggling over who was President.

If you insist on this...demanding that everyone else is wrong and you are right, just because "BERNIE", then I've lost all respect for your position on anything. You are clearly so biased you cannot see the truth when it slaps you right in the face.

Yeah, I know the Huffpo article is long, but just fucking read it.

Here is the link again. Huffpo also wrote about this in 2009 and NRP or PBS or somebody published this as well. Crooks and Liars smear on Bernie is pure bullshit.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-blumenthal/how-congress-rushed-a-bil_b_181926.html

[AgingAmerican]

78. Already debunked

Dishonest

[VanillaRhapsody]

116. where?

link please!

[FloridaBlues]

84. Say it isn't so

Not purist Sanders. My guess if ever he gets really vetted will see hundreds of votes one way and his reteric another way

[Vinca]

90. And Hillary voted for a war that killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

The horse is dead and doesn't need to be beaten any longer.

[VanillaRhapsody]

117. So now Sanders supporters want to let her off the hook for that?

[Vinca]

134. I wish you wouldn't refer to "Sanders supporters" en masse.

We don't all think the exact same thing. I doubt Hillary supporters all think the exact same thing. We're not Republicans after all.

[VanillaRhapsody]

136. Why

Are they ashamed of it?

[Vinca]

137. I don't quite understand the remark.

I would say it's because Democrats are not robots programmed to think one thing.

[Armstead]

95. Yep he's just a nefarious character

Maybe Bank of America and Goldman Sachs slipped him $10 million under the table for his vote.

[workinclasszero]

101. Say it ain't so Bernie!!!

The man who has never been wrong in 40 years???

I bet the Oligarchy gave Bernie a big ole hug after that vote!

[riversedge]

122. The cat is out of the bag. Thanks for the OP.

[Bluenorthwest]

131. Problem with your emoticon fest is that you often praise others who also voted for this same bill.

John Lewis voted yes along with Bernie and all but 2 House Democrats. To quote you on John Lewis "John Lewis is a great man. Im sure Hillary must be very proud to have his endorsement."

That quote comes from a Cha thread entitled 'A Beautiful Reminder of why John Lewis supports Hillary~"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110729150


So what you are saying is that the Oligarchy gave John Lewis a big ole hug for that vote. And to Bill Clinton for his signature. And to every Democrat in the House but two. Two whom you have never, ever praised for voting No. No one in this thread even mentions who voted no. Just two. The entire Black Caucus and nearly the entire Progressive Caucus voted for it.
So the criticism you push for Bernie applies to many, many Democrats, some of whom are seen as heroic figures. That's just sad that you would trash so many Democrats just to take a cheap, inaccurate swipe at one Democratic candidate.

[workinclasszero]

135. Its some Bernie fans on DU that are the ones holding Bernie up as a shining

example to all of us Hillary sinners.

A bulwark against the hated Oligarchy, that voted their way, a peace loving man who funded the F35, a lion for the common man that voted against the Brady bill and protects big gun manufacturers against lawsuits from the victims of their products.

Bernie Sanders is no saint walking among us that's for damn sure.

John Lewis is a great man and nobody in Congress is fit to shine his shoes IMO. So maybe I don't agree with every single vote of his, doesn't make John Lewis any less of a hero to me or to generations of americans in the future.

Lots of people talk about freedom, John Lewis paid for it in blood and beatings and jailings.

[Jester Messiah]

127. Incorrect, and disingenuous.

This OP should be deleted.

[Trajan]

129. Ok ... You can now join your friends ...

In the Dark Hole of Infamy ...

This is an extreme exaggeration and distorts the facts ...

It's time for you to go ....

Gone.

[Bluenorthwest]

130. Gosh, just 2 House Democrats voted no. Bernie voted with the Democrats. Complaining about

Bernie voting with a massive Democratic majority to pass a Clinton supported bill makes all of those posts about Bernie not being a Democrat seem random and vapid. Today's complaint seems to be that he's too much of a Democrat.

I'd also like to point out that many of the endorsers of Hillary who are strongly lauded on DU as being persons of immense principle voted yes along with Bernie, including John Lewis and the entire Black Caucus. If this characterization you offer applies to Bernie, it also applies to all of them and to Bill Clinton, the Senators such as Kerry and Biden.....so for a moment's criticism of Bernie you trash the entire Party.

[passiveporcupine]

141. so for a moment's criticism of Bernie you trash the entire Party.

I would change the wording a little:

so for a moment of INVALID criticism of Bernie you trash the entire Party.

There is a lot of loose ignorance floating around in this thread as Hill supporters high five each other over the OP, when in fact none of them even know what the fuck they are high fiving about. Not one of them understands what this OP is about or why it is wrong.

[passiveporcupine]

140. I know this has been addressed (ad nauseum) but I'll just add this

for clarification and for lazy readers, who want it clean and short and TLDR lets them keep getting away with this shit.


Bernie Sanders was in the House of representatives when this bill passed. Not the Senate.

The bill passed the house, before the deregulation bits were added. Then it sat for a year while the elections were goin on. Then at the last minute in the senate, in a lame duck session, the bill was modified, and without having time to review it, the senate (not the House, not Sanders) passed it.

Commodity Futures Modernization Act. While Ewing's bill sailed quickly through the House, it stalled in the Senate, as Sen. Gramm desired stricter deregulatory language be inserted into the bill...

Gramm's opposition held the bill in limbo until Congress went into recess for the 2000 election.

Ewing introduced a new version of the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. On December 15, with little warning or fanfare--aside from the overshadowed discussions on the floors of Congress--the new, compromise version was included as a rider to the Consolidated Appropriations Act for FY 2001, an 11,000 page omnibus appropriations conference report.

The final language, which the public was hardly aware of, contained some new sections not in the original Ewing bill that, for all intents and purposes, exempted swaps and derivatives from regulation...

Also, hidden within the bill was an exemption for energy derivative trading, which would later become known as the "Enron loophole" - this loophole would provide the impetus for Enron's nose dive into full blown corporate corruption.

None of the above changes were in the bill at the time Sanders voted for it. Bernie did NOT vote for what passed the senate.

The quotes above all come from a Huffpo story from 2009. This has been known for a long time and is only being dragged out now to try to trash Bernie but it doesn't because he did NOT vote for those changes.

This is all a lie. And the more it is repeated, knowingly, the more of a liar it makes whomever keeps pushing it.

In your own OP, you post the Huffpo link that says it was congress who passed this bill without reading it. Not the HOUSE.

Sme of you Hill supporters really need to do a little self-examination. You are so desperate to smear Bernie you don't even know what you are posting.

[Historic NY]

144. Congress defined..

In your own OP, you post the Huffpo link that says it was congress who passed this bill without reading it. Not the HOUSE.

The United States Congress is the bicameral legislature of the federal government of the United States consisting of two houses: the Senate and the House of Representatives. The Congress meets in the Capitol in Washington, D.C. Both senators and representatives are chosen through direct election, though vacancies in the Senate may be filled by a gubernatorial appointment. Members are usually affiliated to the Republican Party or to the Democratic Party, and only rarely to a third-party or as independents. Congress has 535 voting members: 435 Representatives and 100 Senators.

I not aware this has changed since 1787.

[passiveporcupine]

146. You really should read your own links before you post them

I guess I should have said Senate, not Congress, but your third link addresses it as "Congress" as if both House and Senate were complicit, when in fact the important changes took place in the Senate, long after the House vote.

Your first link to crooks and Liars is an outright lie. No wonder they call themselves that. Your second link only showed vote count, not which part of congress voted or when, or how the bill might have been changed between house and senate votes. Your third link from Huffpo actually explains what happened and it removes any responsibility from Sanders as it explains what was done, and when, in the Senate, long after the house voted (almost a year, I think). So, before you post crap by Crooks and Liars, you might actually want to read all the links you use to support your crap accusations.

[Historic NY]

148. Well I suggest you google it all the way back...

Huff Post has had story on it Thom Hartmann had it on his blog and on his pod cast, it goes on & on. I'm sure it going to grow more legs....
Its deceitful to claim that it been debunked here, who is here, when even the campaign has laid low on it.

I posted the story don't like take it up with Crooks & Liars, it out in the media.

Its not my crap accusations the fact is he made the vote and it documented. EOM..........FINAL.

[passiveporcupine]

149. No one is saying he didn't vote on the bill

But he did NOT vote on the version of the bill that passed the Senate (and he would not have). The bill that passed the House did not contain the deregulation rider that caused the problems. And that is what you Hill supporters are denying. You are right. The facts are out there. You just don't want to look at them, or acknowledge them when you see them.

That is pure desperation my friend.

From the end of your Huffpo link:

In the end, the country would have been better served had Congress not taken the 262-page Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which had trouble passing Congress on its own accord, and inserted it into a bloated 11,000 page conference report when no one was looking. If ever there was a case where Congress should have given more time and listened closer, this was it. Now, we're all paying for it.

This is the truth and needs to be addressed. We should not allow bills to be pushed through without adequate time for congress to review the changes being inserted and have discussion on it. But again, even in this article, they are saying 'Congress' did this. The Senate did this, not the House. The House would never have allowed this rider to be added and still voted for it. If the Senate had been paying attention, they also would not have voted for it. It's the senators that voted to pass this bill, not even knowing what was in it, who are responsible. It's the system that allows things to be rigged this way that is responsible.

I don't need to take anything up with Crooks and Liars. You are the one linking to their story as if it has legs. You are the one bringing a lie to this forum, as if it has credibility. This is on you.

[passiveporcupine]

142. You need to edit your OP

But there it is in black and white, or rather red and blue: Sanders’ vote in the House on the very legislation that greased the skids for banks and other financial institutions to run roughshod without any messy government oversight.

This is an outright lie by Crooks and liars and you are buying into it. Bernie NEVER voted for the deregulation rider that was slipped into this bill in the senate before the SENATE passed it.

Bernie did nothing wrong here, but you folks are showing a very uneducated and scary side of the Hill supporters by posting shit like this before you even vet it.

[Autumn]

143. Lets put it this way. Bernie voted for the bill as written, bill later amended and passed

Hillary's husband signed the bill. Get it? Bill written, bill voted on by Bernie in the House, bill later amended in the Senate, amended Senate bill signed into law by Hillary's husband. End of story. Black and white, red and blue. No gray there.