My Heart Goes Out to Sanders

[NCTraveler]

This is a discussion board where there is banter back and forth, some comments serious, many over the top. I post many of the over the top ones myself. Sometimes I'm in a fun mood. Sometimes more serious.

The Nightly News with Lester Holt is real. I found the first segment difficult to watch. Much of it was with a camera up close on Sanders as he was walking. No talking or anything. Meanwhile they were narrating the misdoings.

It was really difficult to watch that narrative directed at Sanders personally. Yes, they mentioned it was a staffer. But they repeatedly referenced it as tha Sanders campaign with an image of him not talking. You can't escape the imagery.

It appears to me that Sanders himself acted as ethically as we could expect anyone to act in this situation. I believe Sanders to be a damn good man. One of the best out there. This is playing out on the national stage to someone more use to smaller politics. That is not a knock on Sanders as I find him personally to be courageous.

And that's it. It's politics at the highest level. This is how it's covered. There is only one person at the top and that's all the media cares about. It's the way they are all treated.

I want the DNC give access to Sanders information back to the Sanders campaign immediately. I do want an investigation but Sanders campaign needs access immediately. It seems all breaches are well known and documented.

While I might have a little fun here, I think Clinton has this in the bag and this simply isn't needed. My heart truly goes out to the manner Sanders was portrayed on the Nightly News.

[randys1]

1. Since I am no longer allowed in either camp, since on DU the entire Democratic Party has deemed

someone like me persona non grata - and since I predicted everything that is now happening and will happen and how it will ultimately harm both candidates and the Democratic Party


I can only add the following

[ismnotwasm]

3. Aww

One day this will all be over. I will be voting for Hillary or Sanders--or remotely but never say die. O'Malley.

[JaneyVee]

2. Us Hillary supporters have hated the corporate media for a long time.

[ismnotwasm]

4. No shit

Interesting how that works..

[NCTraveler]

5. 100% Nt

[notadmblnd]

6. Well your girl doesn't and her spoksperson has basically accused Sander's of stealing millions

of dollars from them. So apparently Clinton, the DNC ans Wasserman-Schultz doesn't think it's in the bag, or they wouldn't have pulled this vile dirty trick.

So if you want to support someone who has to do low down stuff like that to win, more power to you. I just hope the act that "the Donald" puts on is just that- an act and won't be the horrible President that we all think he'll make.

It's must be a proud day for HRC supporters, crack open the champagne and celebrate.,

[redstateblues]

7. There's no dirty trick

Just incompetence of Bernie's campaign

[notadmblnd]

10. Keep telling yourself that.

[cali]

19. Oh bull. It stinks to high heaven

[magical thyme]

22. the vendor is the incompetent one here, and DNC for not cleaning up the vendor mess months ago

Bernie's IT director was simply doing his job: documenting the extent of the missing firewall in order to report it in a way that would enable the vendor to fix it.

In the same way that IT tech support will ask you to get screen captures or error messages so they can track issues with your system.

[PeaceNikki]

9. She's not a "girl". The way women are demeaned by using childish terms is sexist.

[notadmblnd]

11. Oh, now girl is a dirty word?

Too effin bad, I used the term girl. There's lots of other terms I could have used that would have been a whole lot worse.

[bigwillq]

12. Someone is always offended by something.

[notadmblnd]

14. Tell me bout it.

SMDH

[PeaceNikki]

15. I'm not "offended". I was just pointing out that is sexist. Because it is.

[bigwillq]

17. I don't think it is as used above. I call Bernie "my boy"

"I am voting for my boy Bernie"

That's not sexist.

Neither is

"My girl Hillary"

Or

"Your girl hillary"

[wildeyed]

23. It is demeaning when it is used in a derogatory manner.

It was used here to diminish her credibility, as "your girl", not as a diminutive denoting affection. It is a subtle but important distinction.

[peacebird]

32. Ridiculous. I proudly called myself a "woman" at 18, yet my mom referred to her friends as 'girls'

My mom continued to call herself and her friends girls until she died at 82.


I refer to my girlfriends now as girls as well. Mwybe a southern thing, but so it goes.
And still the guy who runs the DNCs database was Hillary's tech guy in her 2008 bid

[wildeyed]

46. I sometimes referred to women I played roller derby with as

my bitches. But no one else gets to call them bitches, or else I would probably not get a great reaction if I went around, as a white person, and referred to black adults as boys and girls. It's all in the context.

The context in the discussed post, it was demeaning BS. There are many ways to insult Wasserman Shultz that are not sexist low blows.

[dsc]

34. It is offensive and if you don't believe me

try calling Obama a boy in a post, I see not a whole lot of difference.

[PeaceNikki]

13. Referring to grown women as "girls" is sexist, yes.

[notadmblnd]

16. Well then I'm sexist.

What else you want me to say?

[wildeyed]

48. Sorry?

[notadmblnd]

49. No, there's nothing to apologize to anyone for.

nt

[peacebird]

39. Both my mother (85 when she died) and I refer to women as girls. It is NOT sexist

I am a 58 yo woman, my friends are 'girls'. So were my Mothers friends. There is nothing sexist there.

[PeaceNikki]

42. Yeah, context matters.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/08/stop-calling-women-girls-its-either-patronising-or-sexually-suggestive

It's patronizing, infantilization and, often, sexually suggestive.

[peacebird]

47. If you are LOOKING to be offended, then it is pretty sure you will be.

[PeaceNikki]

51. As I said above, I'm not "offended". I am aware of sexism and feel it appropriate to point it

out when I see it here. So I did.

[peacebird]

56. As a woman, I see no sexism there but whatever....

[PeaceNikki]

57. K.

[peacebird]

60. As I said, my mom referred to her friends as girls, & so do I

We are (were, in moms case) both strong belieners in a womans worth.

My mother was THE FIRST WOMAN ever to be an accountant for the railroad! During WWII, she used abacus to do the books.

When I started my career I went to a conference, there were 99 men and me. Some hit on me, some treated me like a daughter, a very few treated me as an equal. That was back in 1981

[PeaceNikki]

61. That's awesome, she sounds great.

Like I said, context matters and I don't think you read the article I linked that discusses women using it among one another.

[NanceGreggs]

21. So the Sanders campaign ...

... gets caught stealing the HRC campaign's information - but it's HRC and the DNC who are relying on "dirty tricks"?

"If you want to support someone who has to do low down stuff like that to win ..."

You might want to consider that - given that it's the BS camp who engaged in the wrongdoing here.

Hillary is the clear front-runner by a wide margin. So you also might want to consider what motive she would have for potentially destroying her own front-runner status at this point in the race by using "dirty tricks" - which she obviously doesn't need to get ahead, as she is already far in the lead.

If you have any proof of this incident being a "set-up", or any evidence of HRC's or DWS's involvement, please post it.

The notion that Hillary - or anyone on her behalf - would jeopardize HRC's clear and substantial lead over BS at this juncture makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever. None.

[notadmblnd]

24. The DNC and Waserman- Schultz is doing everything in her power

to shut down the Sander's campaign and if you can't see that- then maybe a visit to the eye Dr is in order?

And no, I don't believe after 40 years of integrity and ethical behavior, that Senator Sanders, got down on his belly and slithered like most other politician do. Yeah, he held all his evilness in and saved it all just for this moment. You really believe that?

[LuvLoogie]

50. Oh FFS! Sanders is not the tooth fairy.

He has no network, never built one. It's all Twitter, Youtube, and Facebook. His campaign is all about riding the coattails of discontent and 20 plus years of anti-Hillary propaganda. He's been phoning it in to the choir for the last 10 years, and would have no relevancy as a candidate without the DNC sanctioning his Bernie-come-lately campaign.

It's The Revolution that wants a coronation. Swiping data you didn't collect is no shortcut to years of knocking on doors and working politically in solidarity with others.

It's not Bernie's fault. He is a victim of the deluded expectations of self-righteousness. Noone is calling Bernie evil. Jeezuz.

[NanceGreggs]

63. I said nothing ...

... about Bernie's involvement in this incident. Personally, I doubt that he did have any involvement. (However, the fact that his campaign operatives were able to do what they did without his knowledge is troubling - but that's an entirely different topic.)

The only people who are convinced that the DNC and DWS are trying to "shut down the Sanders' campaign" are BS supporters. And their "evidence" for such always amounts to unfounded accusations. According to the BS camp here, the entire planet has been engaged in a vast conspiracy to "get" Sanders.

No thought is given to the idea that the majority of Democrats want HRC as their nominee - which is now clearly the case. The MSM, which has latched onto, and propagated, every "scandal" the GOP has ever fabricated about Hillary are now somehow "in her pocket". The scheduling of Democratic debates has been touted as trying to silence Bernie - despite the fact that HRC does BETTER in debates than he does, and more debates would be to HER advantage, not his. And of course, all of HRC's endorsements are the result of people being paid-off and/or threatened.

When BS was rising in the polls over the summer, they were accurate and above reproach - but when his poll numbers started stagnating, suddenly they were being "manipulated" by the nefarious PTB.

The list goes on.

Again, if you have any evidence whatsoever that HRC, the DNC, or DWS have "set up" the BS campaign by somehow forcing them to pilfer the HRC campaign's inside info, please post said evidence - and saying "because I think they did" is not proof of anything whatsoever.

[riversedge]

28. It was the Sanders camp that did the dirty trick!! And you know that or you are purposely

being obtuse!


This is the type of data that the Sanders camp assessed....




....

.....What was accessed

Two senior Democrats familiar with the program and the investigation told CNN that the Sanders campaign accessed turnout projections for Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary, a key piece of strategy the Clinton campaign has been working on with modeling and analytics.

The Sanders team, which consisted of four people, ran multiple searches in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina and about 10 March states, including Florida and Colorado. In Iowa and New Hampshire, the Clinton campaign has ranked voters on a scale of 1-100 for turnout, enthusiasm and support, the senior Democrats said. The Sanders campaign ran two searches: "Show me all the Clinton people rated higher than 60" and "Show me all the people rated less than 30." This would be a key way of knowing who Sanders should target in the final weeks before voting: Ignore those above 60, while focus on those below 30, because they are looking for a Clinton alternative and might be open to Sanders.

The investigation into what information was lifted should only take a few days as there are audit logs and trails of the activity, which took place beginning around 10:40 a.m. and lasting for about 40 minutes, the senior Democrats said.

They added that the Clinton campaign views this as a big deal but will not say so publicly because it will fan the flames of liberal groups trying to fight with the DNC.

In a statement released Friday afternoon, the Clinton campaign called for the Sanders campaign and the DNC to "work expeditiously to ensure that our data is not in the Sanders campaign's account and that the Sanders campaign only have access to their own data."................


http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-dnc-suspension/index.html

[notadmblnd]

31. Nice personal attack.

Yeah, that oughta show me.

First rule of Rove- Whatever you are guilty of- accuse your opponent of doing first.

[Human101948]

77. "Two senior Democrats familiar with the program..."

Just who are they? And how do they have such intimate knowledge of what went on?

Maybe they have an informant named Curveball?

[riversedge]

33. ha ha it was the Sanders spokesman who today cried about how much $$ was

lost by the grassroots supporters (Bernie) if they do not have access back. Yet, Sanders staff stole data that cost the Hillary camp millions. And the dirty trick was done by the Sanders staff--and you know that.

rsedge (12,987 posts)
10. This is the type of data that the Sanders camp assessed....




....

.....What was accessed --by the Sanders snoopy staff!!!


Two senior Democrats familiar with the program and the investigation told CNN that the Sanders campaign accessed turnout projections for Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary, a key piece of strategy the Clinton campaign has been working on with modeling and analytics.

The Sanders team, which consisted of four people, ran multiple searches in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina and about 10 March states, including Florida and Colorado. In Iowa and New Hampshire, the Clinton campaign has ranked voters on a scale of 1-100 for turnout, enthusiasm and support, the senior Democrats said. The Sanders campaign ran two searches: "Show me all the Clinton people rated higher than 60" and "Show me all the people rated less than 30." This would be a key way of knowing who Sanders should target in the final weeks before voting: Ignore those above 60, while focus on those below 30, because they are looking for a Clinton alternative and might be open to Sanders.

The investigation into what information was lifted should only take a few days as there are audit logs and trails of the activity, which took place beginning around 10:40 a.m. and lasting for about 40 minutes, the senior Democrats said.

They added that the Clinton campaign views this as a big deal but will not say so publicly because it will fan the flames of liberal groups trying to fight with the DNC.

In a statement released Friday afternoon, the Clinton campaign called for the Sanders campaign and the DNC to "work expeditiously to ensure that our data is not in the Sanders campaign's account and that the Sanders campaign only have access to their own data."................


http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-dnc-suspension/index.html

[notadmblnd]

35. How has it cost them millions?

Please, elaborate. Feel free to be as specific as possible.

[riversedge]

52. Well, the Sanders camp just said they spent millions collecting the

data they have been blocked from (because of the dastardly deed of snooping into the Clinton data base). That is the specifics from the Sanders camp.

[msongs]

8. oddly enough for 73 years sanders chose not to be a democrat until he wanted something badly nt

[Enrique]

18. Bernie is going to kick the DNC's ass

in court and with the dem base. DWS will never recover from this travesty.

[Thinkingabout]

58. Just like he kicked ass in the debates, eh?

[joshcryer]

20. I have little respect for the Clinton supporters reveling in this.

And appreciate your kind post.

[wildeyed]

25. Who is reveling?

This is not good for either candidate or the party. Remember, some of us mostly want to beat the Republicans in the GE. Remember those guys?

[joshcryer]

26. I know.

And I'm not digging the people on my side making excuses now that we know it was a concerted effort. My posts early in the AM were just trying to suggest it was an honest mistake by foolish people but now that the details are coming out it seems that's not the case. I was wrong and now that we're finding out the facts the whole he-said-she-said thing needs to end.

[wildeyed]

37. I hope the campaigns and the DNC can get this sorted before tomorrow night.

What does DNC need from Sanders to unlock his VAN info? A point was made on TV, maybe Chuckie T? that what has been seen can't be unseen, even if there were no copies made. So what is the resolution? Does the Clinton campaign get to peek at the Sanders data too? Does the DNC need more documentation than the Sanders campaign is willing to give? Maybe a ritual sacrifice of Wasserman Shultz on the steps of the Capitol will appease the masses? I dunno. Something...

The DNC f'ed up by letting this happen again. The Sanders employee was stupid too, and has not acquitted himself well on TV. Why are they even letting him talk to the media if they fired him? He needs to take a trip out of state for urgent family reasons for at least a week or two and STFU. This whole thing needs to go away or the Dems end up looking just as clownish as the GOP.

[Metric System]

27. Honestly, all I've seen is Sanders supporters saying this is bad for Hillary.

[joshcryer]

29. I don't agree with them either.

Their victim blaming is going to new heights beyond which I cannot even understand the pretzel logic.

And especially after we now know that the staffers intentionally searched for and copied specific files (and then tried to cover up the fact that they did it).

It was not, as I thought it was this morning, staffers snooping. They were looking for the data, downloading it, and copying it. More people are going to be fired over this.

Other Sanders supporters should be calling for the heads of the other staffers involved rather than making excuses using shitty unlocked door analogies.

[Metric System]

30. Thank you Josh. I've always found you to be fair-minded. More than I'd ever give myself credit for.

You are a credit to DU.

[notadmblnd]

38. Wow. In 40 minutes they did all that, then they told on themselves.

Because that's what dirty tricksters do.

[NurseJackie]

55. If this web site had an opposite of the ignore list ...

Last edited Fri Dec 18, 2015, 10:12 PM - Edit history (1)

... a "people I admire" list, I'd add you to mine.

[Number23]

67. You are such a great guy, josh

Very honest assessment. And I really like the fact that as you received more information, it actually changed your mind instead of you doubling down harder.

I've seen in several threads where Sanders supporters here are screaming that it's Hillary's fault, she's done something wrong and needs to be punished and saying this incident is actually leading them to donate MORE to Sanders. Your fair reaction seems far more enlightened and "liberal" than theirs.

[joshcryer]

69. I wanted to apologize to those people from this morning.

But I didn't want to kick those threads. It's obvious to me they were messing around with intent and I am calling for everyone's heads here. If this thing is not resolved immediately they need to drop the suit and handle it out of court.

My initial feelings were wrong, that's why I don't usually speculate when the details are first coming out.

[Number23]

70. I said in one thread that this whole thing was bad for Sanders and the Dem party and got five

Sanders supporters jumping down my throat, trying desperately to convince me (or themselves) that Bernie's lawsuit was just and noble and that he would rise like the vanquished phoenix from the slanderous lies and "dirty tricks" of the Clinton campaign.

None of that shit is going to happen. It's just not. And like I said, this looks bad for the ENTIRE Dem party. I'm sure the media is already going with the "Dem primary in chaos" theme and they will continue to run with it because right now, it's true.

[joshcryer]

73. I thought the lawsuit was risky because DWS is taking it personal.

"The data was compromised because the DNC and its vendor failed to protect it" should be "we apologize profusely that some ignorant minded staffers breached the data and will work with the DNC to resolve this issue as quickly as possible."

It's getting blown way out of proportion. It happens. It sucks. Some people in campaigns do stupid shit. I know Sanders wasn't behind it and they fired the people behind it immediately. Jeff Weaver said as much. But instead of taking it behind closed doors they're making a mountain out of a molehill.

[lovemydog]

72. Very true.

Then of course we've got all the folks who always want to 'turn the volume up to 11!' It makes me laugh.

[riversedge]

74. Thanks for you kind words.

[NCTraveler]

44. Done a little reveling myself.

But I truly believe him to be an extremely good man. I see no way he has done anything wrong or was irresponsible in management. Campaigns go to this info a lot.

Today I have referenced it as the Pass the Buck" campaign. The media have trashedes the Clintons regularly, often with lies, for decades. Overall they do no favor to democrats or left of there. Clinton needs barely be linked and it's all guns blazing. It's what they do to our side.

[riversedge]

75. I saw that clip that you described in your OP

yesterday where he was walking out of the building to his car. I did feel a bit sorry for him personally---he was all alone trying to avoid the reporters but one caught up with him anyway. Sanders said something about the upcoming press conference--this was just prior to the Sanders presser.

Anyway, Later we learned that Sanders was not informed by his staff on Wednesday-- and he learned about the tapping into the Clinton data on Thursday. His staff did not serve him well--including this Weaver manager. Not well at all. I do think Sanders has a kind heart and I would actually like some of his polices implemented. I just do not think the major ones will pass in this climate even if we get a few more folks into the House (any may get the Senate back).

[NCTraveler]

76. Thanks for sharing that.

I feel I could have written it myself.

I will say his campaigns reaction has solidified my vote for Clinton. That's not to say it doesn't hurt to watch this play out on the national stage. He is a good guy in over his head.

[PowerToThePeople]

36. A lot of people lining up

for the guillotine lists.

[Autumn]

40. My heart goes out to the country should Hillary be the nominee.

She does not have the nomination and certainly not the GE in the bag

[VanillaRhapsody]

41. No sympathy for his supporters hypocritically

Defending this....

[DCBob]

43. I am sure this had nothing to do with Bernie personally.

His staff did it. But unfortunately Bernie is ultimately responsible for his staff's actions.

[NCTraveler]

54. I don't disagree with that.

But Sanders needs this info.

[DCBob]

59. Yeah, I would probably let the Sanders campaign have their access back..

but they do need to do a thorough audit to find out what exactly happened.

[NCTraveler]

65. Absolutely. Nt

[BlueCheese]

62. I'm very confident that Bernie Sanders himself had no idea.

I'm a little surprised he allowed his campaign to actually sue the DNC, though. In my mind, I would have fired the responsible staffer (done), apologized, and worked with the DNC to get access back as quickly as possible.

[DCBob]

64. Agreed. The lawsuit doesn't make sense to me either.

Seems they dont really have much of a case.

[PatrickforO]

45. Nice post, but whoa there!

Clinton has NOTHING in the bag. Not yet. The primaries haven't happened yet.

See, NO one in the establishment wants Bernie as the Democratic candidate. Why? Because he's speaking truth to power and because he's honest and incorruptible. He gets in the way of the oligarchs, because the MIC, Wall Street and the rest of the 1/10 of 1% corporate overlords are making their move to end nation states through the TPP. Read it if you don't believe me.

Sanders is damned inconvenient for the establishment's chosen one, because in spite of the corporate-owned 'news' channels, pundits and pollsters all saying Clinton 'has this in the bag,' there's one thing they are not saying but are definitely worried about. They do not control the dialog. 20 years ago or even 15, this would have been death to Bernie's campaign because the establishment CONTROLLED THE DIALOG through its big, swollen, throbbing, erect mass media, which would dutifully spew out whatever bullshit the corporate overlords wanted.

Too bad for them that in 2015 THEY DO NOT CONTROL THE DIALOG. We do. Through portals like this, blogs, social media. Everyone I know and associate with is still going to caucus for Bernie in my state, and others in other locations are saying the same. Even the latest meme, 'Bernie can sell mugs and tee shirts and fill arenas, but he can't win" hasn't worked the way Clinton surrogates and the rest of the establishment want. In fact, we've had meme after meme after meme get overturned, but you know what?

Tens of thousands of people like me, who are fucking sick, puking sick, about how those we elect to represent us don't uphold our interests at all are PUSHING BACK. We are controlling the dialog and we're gonna shoot down this new meme just like all the others with a big truth bomb.

You know why? Because I'm fucking sick to death of my shitty, rationed healthcare and worrying about cuts to Social Security. I'm fucking TIRED of my kids having forever loans because they had the temerity to attend college. I'm fucking MAD. I want MY tax dollars spent on programs that benefit ME and my family for a change, instead of another immoral forever war.

I'm tired of this shit, and in my opinion, Clinton is just another Third Way shill. She's not gonna help me. She's not gonna help you. She's not gonna help your sons, daughters, grandsons or granddaughters. She isn't. She's gonna help Wall Street and the MIC.

So, if you are for Bernie, let's push back hard on this one and get the truth out on every social media site. Because our guy, the ONLY one who has actually cared about US since FDR, Jack and Bobby, is getting RATFUCKED. Let's fight back.

[NCTraveler]

53. And I'm not going to sit her and tell you to whoa back with that.

I get that's how you feel. I'm good with it.

[bigtree]

66. of course, the Clinton campaign isn't responsible for the Sanders campaign's actions

...and if this is the image of a Sanders presidency in 'crisis' mode, it leaves a lot to be desired.

[Number23]

68. You got that right.

if this is the image of a Sanders presidency in 'crisis' mode, it leaves a lot to be desired.

[lovemydog]

71. Very well said NCTraveler.

It's sad how the news media keeps try to turn this into one person at the top versus another person at the top. It's really an inaccurate representation. One that we shouldn't fall into believing. I think there are good people on both campaigns. I think all three people contending are very good people. I refuse to get into the name calling and mudslinging unless I feel it's warranted. In this particular matter, it isn't. None of knows exactly what went on. It will play itself out. I agree with you that the DNC should give access back to the Sanders campaign. I believe it should also drop its request for an audit. I think it just makes the DNC look like a mean bully.