Friday night's agreement doesn't end the lawsuit, according to a Sanders aide.

[catnhatnh]

That made my day!


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sanders-sues-dnc_56748b06e4b06fa6887d883e?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013&section=politics

[leftofcool]

1. Nor does it end the independent investigation.

[daleanime]

6. Let's hope not....

want to investigate the hell out of this, from every possible angle.

[seabeyond]

2. Sanders does not look good using a party while trashing, to use their resources, then put so much

effort in stealing money donated, after having stolen data from his opponent.

I do not get why you and others think this makes Sanders look good, or strong to the Democratic base. You know, supposedly the votes he is after.

Or, has he simply given up on the Democratic vote, and using the Democratic resources to get the Repug, Libertarian and Teabagger vote?

[catnhatnh]

5. Bernie looks bad???

You have the leading democratic candidate and the "impartial" head of the party apparatus colluding to thwart a democratic primary and Bernie looks bad???

[leftofcool]

9. Yes, theft looks bad

And yes, they did steal and download information.

[catnhatnh]

15. And your candidate and the head of the DNC

have teamed up to try to steal this election-not their staffers-THEM. They are showing the kind of brass not even shown by Atwater or Rove.

[leftofcool]

20. So Bernie steals and it's Hillary's fault? Got it!

[catnhatnh]

22. Try reading for comprehension

Bernie did nothing.It can be argued a staffer did something. The two principles I named above are themselves engaged in filthy politics.

[leftofcool]

25. I say we let the justice department review it and make a decision

[tecelote]

51. Yes. Let's get a full independent audit of the data security protocol.

It should be enlightening.

[safeinOhio]

63. Lets let the Discovery evidence

Sanders legal team are asking for go on. Are there emails that tie HRC and DWS together in trying to hurt the Sanders run? Law suit sure ended DWSs plans fast when those records were asked for in the discovery phase of his law suit.

Let the sun shine
let the sun shine
in.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

62. Try not making up bullshit

"You have the leading democratic candidate and the "impartial" head of the party apparatus colluding to thwart a democratic primary and Bernie looks bad???"

There is absolutely no evidence that Hillary had anything to do with this, except in your fevered colorful imagination.

Here are the facts:
* Bernie's campaign got caught red handed.
* The DNC was properly pissed off, and cut off access the way you do anyone who is caught stealing.
* Hillary and her campaign had nothing to do with this, other than as the victim.

You hate filled pieces of work have a lot of gall trying to make this into Hillary's problem.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[safeinOhio]

64. You'd be ok with turning over all

email records between HRCs staff and the DNC? No evidence? Asking for those records as part of the discovery for Sanders law suit sure changed things in a NY second.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

65. Conspiracy theorizing is a sign of derangement, you know

Or maybe you actually don't.
Regardless, it is. And Democrats are the party of facts and logic, not made up bullshit that people would like to be true.
Try to remember that.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[safeinOhio]

66. You got it.

Turn over all the request, as asked for in the law suit, and put an end to it. We then have the facts about any contact between DWS and HRCs staff. No conspiracy can stand sun shine. I'm more than ok with looking at facts. One fact, Sanders gets back his access as soon as his law suit ask for discovery. If you are in the right, you stand pat. If not you twist and turn.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

67. So the penalty for the Sanders campaign stealing private data...

..should be that the Sanders' campaign gets access to more private data?

Man, the sheer gall is strong in this one.


How about this instead? Since Sanders' people stole critical Clinton information, the DNC should let Clinton's people peruse the very same information from Sanders? Sounds fair to me.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

/ At this point, Sanders is so toast, the only way he thinks he win is by launching a bunch of frivolous lawsuits.

[jfern]

55. Nothing was stolen

[seabeyond]

11. Collusion was only in your mind. I can't help you with that. Ya, stealing data and threatening 600k

a day makes Sanders look like.... really bad. Ya think?

[roguevalley]

53. god, bernie is showing backbone and taking care of us his followers.

have we come so far down into the dirt that a dem with a backbone which I remember we have lamented forever looks 'bad'?

We need to burn down the DNC and start over. Get rid of DWS and start over. the only ones looking 'bad' are the other idiots.

[notadmblnd]

8. Well Hillary inappropriately accessed and stole President Obama's data in 2008

So you might as well get over it or display the same outrage for her that you do for Senator Sanders.

[mindwalker_i]

16. That's not going to happen

[thelordofhell]

54. And they gave the DNC all the info and cooperated fully

Bernie's campaign refused to give the info they took and it forced the DNC's hand to deny them any more access. Bernie's campaign then filed their lawsuit. Then, and only then, did Bernie's campaign finally agree to turn over the info they took. Then the DNC re-instated access.

Everything else is the supporters of both candidates going ape shit over it all..........

[Samantha]

18. Sanders caucused with the Democratic party for years

He always was basically a Democrat, but assumed the Democratic Socialist label to extend his political range to incorporate the belief that government should work for all of the people, not just the billionaires and corporations. He particularly wants better treatment, pay and benefits for the poor and the middle class. He says there is no excuse for the richest country in the world having the level of poverty the US has.

His pleading contained the assertion that his data had been breached as well.

Sanders has an impeccable reputation for being honest despite what has been asserted during this debacle. He typically gets about 25 percent of the Republican vote in Vermont when he runs. Even they say although they do no agree with Sanders on everything, he is always open and honest about his political positions.

Sam

[grasswire]

26. stealing money donated?

what the hell are you talking about?

[Fawke Em]

44. Hey... you...

Y'all look positively stupid going up against a technology you don't know.

Proceed, non-tech people.

[tecelote]

56. Yes.

How about hearing from people over at slashdot...

Revenge Of The Nerds: The NERDS Weigh In On the DNC 'Data Breach'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251917857

Since the firewall was down, how much data did the Clinton campaign steal? No way of knowing until we get the independent audit. Their results could be the end for DWS.

[Juicy_Bellows]

59. Muchas Gracias.

Painful. Not only do they not know what they are talking about they didn't even stay at at a Holiday Inn last night.

[Fawke Em]

61. Buenas noches.

[snot]

57. Pls remember, all: yr enemy can defeat you by causing you to waste your time.

[AtomicKitten]

3. Team Sanders obviously can prove they warned the DNC about the firewall months ago.

That puts the onus of mismanagement back where it belongs, on the vendor and the DNC, both solidly in the Clinton camp. Looks like it is they that have some 'splaining to do. The lawsuit will apply the appropriate pressure to get to the bottom of this effort to frag Sanders.

[Samantha]

4. I was wondering why a part of the agreement was not Sanders dropping the suit

I just thought perhaps the DNC traded restoring access for the dismissal of the lawsuit. However, I read a line in another thread referencing possibly a fine for Sanders' campaign. Perhaps if the DNC does issue a fine, he will still have the protection of the lawsuit pending. Now this is just my idle speculation. I know nothing, nothing....

Sam

[Hepburn]

7. It was clear that the court would grant the petition for injunctive relief.

Therefore, the Bernie campaign had no reason to give up the entire lawsuit. The DNC caved because they had nowhere to go on the issue of injunctive relief.

[leftofcool]

12. The DNC has the justice department.

[Fawke Em]

45. Nice to have you admit predjudice!

No Clinton appointed judge, eh?

[Fawke Em]

46. Already took a screen shot of this!

Wow..

[joshcryer]

13. Well, yeah, the court would've said...

..."act like adults and resolve this issue."

And they just resolved it without having to have a judge say "act like adults and resolve this issue."

[Hepburn]

19. I have never seen a ruling or opinion that merely stated, "Act like adults."

The ptn for injuncitive relief was going to be granted. The DNC took action which was outside of the terms of the contract.

The DNC caved because they could not have won on this issue.

[joshcryer]

24. That is not clear.

"take all measures necessary to protect the secrecy of, and to avoid disclosure and unauthorized use of” confidential information disclosed by the Campaign to the DNC" could make the case that if DWS or the DNC wanted to take it to court that they couldn't trust the Sanders campaign to keep the data secure.

DWS obviously thought she had the power to shut down the system and I think if she was allowed to escalate, then she would. But the DNC doesn't need a clusterfuck happening right now.

[Hepburn]

27. IMO, the DNC does need a working over to get rid of the coronation theme.

[ljm2002]

68. "couldn't trust the Sanders campaign to keep the data secure"...

...WTF????? It is NOT the responsibility of the Sanders campaign to "keep the data secure". THAT would be the responsibility of that company with the very weird name NGP VAT or some such.

So if the DNC wanted to throw out the 10-day window for the Sanders campaign to address their concerns, by denying access to insecure data immediately, it should have denied access to all of the active campaigns until the issue was shown to be fixed.

Otherwise, what they did was simply a breach of their contract with the Sanders campaign, pure and simple.

Which is, of course, why they folded so quickly -- before coming before a judge.

I sincerely hope the lawsuit goes forward. My feeling on this has nothing to do with Clinton but everything to do with DWS, who I find to be deranged. And she has been know to support Republicans instead of progressive Democrats -- publicly no less, and while she was a Democratic Party officer in Florida. Why a person who did that is allowed anywhere near the party apparatus is a mystery to me.

[aspirant]

21. ...and little Debbie

huffed and puffed and blew herself down

[Samantha]

75. Yes, I know that - I read the documents as soon as they were posted

I knew when I saw and read that agreement attached, the Sanders team would get their access back asap. I posted that here. But I just didn't understand why the decision has been made to let the suit stand for now unless there is something else "pending." I think for immediate financial damages, they asked for $70,000 and stated that a much higher amount would be calculated and presented during the trial. But I really don't know what the "something else" is that made them decide to continue the case, so that is why I asked the question. There was a statement in the original document that the Sanders' data had been breached....

Sam

[daleanime]

10. Also just look up-thread to see why....

Bernie can't just let it drop.

[pa28]

17. Good. It's time to hang up all the DNC's laundry.

[RandySF]

23. Then they are truly idiots.

[Renew Deal]

28. Good. They will lose

This is the part of the brief that permits the DNC to cut off the data

Cutting off access during the breach is covered here:

16) The Agreement requires the DNC to “use security measures, with respect to the
Campaign Data, that are consistent with good practices in the data processing industry.”
Agreement, ¶ 3(f). Under the Agreement, the DNC warrants that its services shall “be performed
in a professional and workmanlike manner, consistent with industry standards in the data
processing industry.” Agreement, ¶ 8.


Keeping access cut off until the problem is resolved is covered here:

17) The Agreement further requires the DNC to “take all measures necessary to
protect the secrecy of, and to avoid disclosure and unauthorized use of” confidential information
disclosed by the Campaign to the DNC (“Confidential Information”). Agreement, ¶ 7(a).
Pursuant to the Agreement, the DNC undertakes to “immediately notify the Campaign in the
including the full extent of the time, place and manner of the use or disclosure and the corrective
steps taken by the DNC to address the unauthorized use or disclosure.” Id.

Those two clauses let the DNC do what it needs to do to protect the data. And the Sanders campaign is desperately in need of a dose of reality. They got some with the Time thing.

[joshcryer]

30. That's what DWS used as her justification for cutting off the campaign.

Who's imaginative now?

[Renew Deal]

31. It gives them the flexibility they need to protect the data.

Do you disagree?

[joshcryer]

32. I agree.

I posted that up thread before you did.

And that's why in the other thread I said that DWS was made to blink and that if she really had the power to she would've taken it straight to the courts and fought the injunction. You called that "imaginative" in the other thread.

[Renew Deal]

33. The part I got hung up on was the stern talking to.

It just seemed like a bit much.

[joshcryer]

34. Well, DWS pulled the trigger.

When she could've handled it a lot more discreetly, imo. And now the DNC has a lawsuit they have to deal with. I think that the Clinton camp said "hey, shut that down, it's making us look ridiculous."

Think about it, they go into court Saturday for injunction relief and the DNC argues that the Sanders campaign can't be trusted with the data, the says that they're breaching the contract and writing the ten day letter. I mean, that's how badly this thing could've escalated.

The only thing de-escalating is the fact that it would completely fuck up the Democratic primaries. So just everyone play nice, basically.

[roguevalley]

58. if there was a snowballs chance in hell, DWS would have fought this

to the ground. That there is a massive widesrpead WTF?! in progress, some lawyer probably told her highness she fucked up. She has made decisions all along without consultation with the others on the DNC. She is a dictatorial little idiot that fucked up and saw there was zero chance of a win in court. If there had been one, she would have gone there. She could give a shit about the party. This is the woman who won't campaign for dems who run against pugs in florida because those people are her 'friends'

DWS is an idiot.

[joshcryer]

60. They have a case.

The question is does the DNC want to be fighting a top candidate in the middle of a primary? The simple answer is no. That's why it was settled before meeting with the courts. If the DNC was forced to file their rebuttal, they would've had an open and shut case under "any necessary measures," there would have been no injunction, and the DNC would've been compelled to write a 10 day letter to the Sanders campaign over breach of contract. DWS was taking the DNC down an insane path that would've caused catastrophic repercussions for the entire party.

DWS needs to be fired for pulling the trigger to begin with and shutting the Sanders camp out. Weaver needs to be fired for the lawsuit. And the lawsuit needs to be dropped.

[ljm2002]

71. Weaver did great...

...he most certainly does not need to be fired.

Just look at the result: DWS / DNC caved when their obvious breach of contract was due to come before a judge.

[Hepburn]

35. Reading comprehension is fundamental.

There is nothing there which allows for the actions taken by the DNC.

[joshcryer]

38. "all measures necessary" is boilerplate.

And not left up to interpretation.

[Hepburn]

39. The remedies are spelled out with particularity and the DNC did something that was not within

the 4 corners of the contract.

[joshcryer]

41. The contract was not terminated.

And if DWS had her way I bet she would've taken it to the courts, stopped the injunction, and terminated the contract with the 10 day written notice.

But that was never going to happen.

[ljm2002]

73. Well DWS had an opportunity to go to court...

...and she balked for some reason.

[ljm2002]

72. From a strictly data protection angle...

...denying one campaign access to the data, while allowing others to continue accessing it, would not be effective.

Denying only the Sanders campaign was clearly done in response to the breach by Sanders staffers. But the contract clearly states they are required to give 10 days' notice to correct issues. There was no notice given, and the action taken did not serve to protect the data. So that argument does not fly.

[SunSeeker]

36. That seems pretty dispositive to me.

I'd love a link to that contract language if you have one handy.

[Renew Deal]

37. Here is a link to the lawsuit

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=914738

[joshcryer]

40. Page 16 of the link Renew Deal posted:

http://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000151-b72f-d1ae-add5-f76f14db0001

[SunSeeker]

42. Thanks. Found it. It's in the Confidentiality subparagraph.

This is not a strong complaint. Sure looks like the DNC has a lot of discretion to decide how to protect data. Plus now the first cause of action for specific performance is moot. So all that's left are the two causes of action for negligence, for which Sanders seeks "over $75,000" in damages. Even if he could prove neglence, it seems damages would be speculative. Indeed, the campaign fundraised off this incident and claims it raised substantial sums of money over it. And if this litigation dragged on, the discovery would be ugly and a terrible distraction for the campaign. Bernie might even get deposed. I can't believe they aren't dropping this suit. So stupid.

[joshcryer]

43. Apparently the damages were put in to make it Federal.

It's a terrible suit. Weaver needs to be fired.

[Fawke Em]

48. A terrible suit that kicked your ass.

Meh.

[joshcryer]

49. No, a suit that threatens Sanders' campaign.

As SunSeeker noted, what if Sanders gets deposed during the discovery period right in the middle of the campaign? Sanders has a good shot of winning NH, can place well in IA and potentially win there, and here we have people shrugging off a losing suit against the DNC?

Sorry, the campaign should drop the suit as soon as possible.

(BTW, I predicted several hours before that the DNC would open up the databases, the Democratic Party does not need campaigns battling with the freaking National Committee. DWS needs to be fired for jumping the gun. And I support Sanders in this, I think Weaver is fucking up badly.)

[SunSeeker]

50. Yes, yes and yes. nt

[Fawke Em]

47. The "time" thing.

Um, it's called honor.

[ljm2002]

69. IF they cut off access to everyone...

...then they could possibly justify their actions based on taking all measures to protect the data.

Since they did not do so, clearly it was intended as a punitive move and had nothing to do with data security as such.

Furthermore, maybe you should re-read your P 8:

Under the Agreement, the DNC warrants that its services shall “be performed in a professional and workmanlike manner, consistent with industry standards in the data processing industry.”

Applying a patch that requires you to remove data protections, doing it during working hours AND leaving the system open and accessible during that time -- does not rise to any of the standards noted in that clause.

[PowerToThePeople]

29. Good. F#(% DWS and the DNC.

eom

[jfern]

52. I hope he brings down DWS

[Uncle Joe]

70. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, catnhatnh.

[reddread]

74. a Mighty Wind

[Jarqui]

76. Let's petition the court to televise the case on C-SPAN !!

That would help make up for all these Saturday night debates.

(It'll never happen but the thought of the looks on their faces if someone told DWS and Hillary that made me smile)