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pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 08:05 AM Dec 2015

Shame on you, ABC! Hillary was late coming back to the debate

because the only available ladies’ room was a lot further from the stage.

And ABC knew it. But they couldn’t wait even a minute for Hillary to return from her long trek to the ladies’ after the break.

Instead, ABC decided to focus its camera on her empty podium and announce that they were going forward without her – as if her presence didn’t matter. As if it didn’t matter if she heard the question and response being given by another candidate. As if it was her fault.

And shame on everyone here who instantly judged Hillary, claiming she was “looking for attention,” that she was pulling a “stunt,” showing “distain for the debate process,” engaged in “debate theater,” or “making a grand entry.”

Ladies, she could have been any one of us.
(Except that most of us have never stood on a national stage for more than two hours, trying to drink enough water to keep our throats hydrated, while having to worry about how long it would take us to get to the bathroom.)

Old buildings all over the country were built during an era when architects included fewer restrooms for women than men, because women weren’t expected to be using them much. Women were supposed to be at home taking care of children, not at the ABC studio or in the Senate.

It was only in the 80’s when researchers with stopwatches conducted studies proving that women need more restrooms than men – because on the average they need twice as much time as men to use the facilities. (A woman using a bathroom stall has many more actions to take than a man using a urinal. Plus women are more likely to wash their hands -- and to use soap.)

But old building codes weren’t designed for the modern era and so it is still harder for women to deal with basic bathroom needs than it is for men. Hillary, of course, would be used to this. The Senate is notorious for its lack of ladies rooms, with women often having to attend to their physical needs on a different floor from their office.

Bathrooms are a feminist issue, because the lack of adequate bathrooms can prevent women from engaging as equal partners in the public sphere. This was proven once again on Saturday.


http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/12/20/finally-an-explanation-for-hillary-clintons-long-bathroom-break/

GOFFSTOWN, N.H. — As the third Democratic debate faded to a five-minute commercial break, Hillary Clinton had exactly one minute and 45 seconds to walk out of the gymnasium at St. Anselm College to the ladies’ restroom and one minute and 45 seconds to return to her place on stage.

Not a lot of wiggle room.

With the men’s room significantly closer to the debate stage, Mrs. Clinton’s male opponents, Bernie Sanders and Martin O’Malley, made it back quicker and, well, it takes women longer, as Mrs. Clinton pointed out after returning slightly late from a commercial break during the first Democratic debate in Las Vegas.

But on Saturday, the ABC News hosts, tied to the schedule of live TV, proceeded with their questioning about the economy with an empty podium awaiting Mrs. Clinton. “Sorry,” she deadpanned when she finally took her place.

Aides said they had been concerned during the walk through before the debate that the ladies room was such a schlep. The campaign’s vice chairwoman, Huma Abedin, had timed the distance to and from the podium and expressed concerns to organizers, but the gymnasium setting meant there were no closer options. She relayed to Mrs. Clinton that she would have to be speedy, said several aides involved in debate planning.


http://time.com/3653871/womens-bathroom-lines-sexist-potty-parity/

The Everyday Sexism of Women Waiting in Public Toilet Lines

Long lines for women's restrooms are the result of a history that favors men’s bodies

If you’re a woman, chances are you’ve a) spent time fidgeting in a long line waiting to use a public toilet, b) delayed a bodily function because you don’t want to or haven’t the time to waste standing in line to use a public toilet, c) considered sneaking into a men’s room—illegal in some places, or d) cursed loudly because of all of the above.

Faced with a long restroom line that spiraled up and around a circular stairwell at a recent museum visit, I opted not to wait. Why do we put up with this? This isn’t a minor pet peeve, but a serious question. Despite years of “potty parity” laws, women are still forced to stand in lines at malls, schools, stadiums, concerts, fair grounds, theme parks, and other crowded public spaces. This is frustrating, uncomfortable, and, in some circumstances, humiliating. It’s also a form of discrimination, as it disproportionately affects women.



63 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Shame on you, ABC! Hillary was late coming back to the debate (Original Post) pnwmom Dec 2015 OP
I called it! MADem Dec 2015 #1
Yes, you are a woman of experience, clearly. I was kind of shocked by some of the responses. pnwmom Dec 2015 #2
The biggest non-issue of the debate. Considering all of Hillary's real problems this is bullshit. Scuba Dec 2015 #3
Except that many people turned it into an issue, by criticizing her for it. pnwmom Dec 2015 #4
That would be stupid. Please provide a link. Scuba Dec 2015 #5
The comments above are from a DU OP and I think they're bad enough, don't you? pnwmom Dec 2015 #6
I didn't think I could find the post about the 3 am call, but I found one of them. pnwmom Dec 2015 #7
Lame snark. We should stick to Hillary's real problems. Scuba Dec 2015 #9
Nasty sexism. The same kind of people used to say that women weren't qualified pnwmom Dec 2015 #10
You might want to communicate that Skidmore Dec 2015 #22
Exactly Nasty sexism.. don't try to excuse it. Cha Dec 2015 #55
Hillary would already be awake at 3 a.m.! Human101948 Dec 2015 #13
You are not alone, Human1011948 :) Duval Dec 2015 #35
Threads like these exist for them to pile on with vile comments riversedge Dec 2015 #34
Some folks will turn ANYTHING into an issue. RoccoR5955 Dec 2015 #14
Feel free to check out #5, 6, and 7. Amimnoch Dec 2015 #23
My side is the Democratic side. RoccoR5955 Dec 2015 #31
ROFLMAO.. Democratic side??? now there's a hoot. Amimnoch Dec 2015 #37
Your research is flawed RoccoR5955 Dec 2015 #54
So.. why is he running as the candidate for the party? Amimnoch Dec 2015 #58
I have news for you RoccoR5955 Dec 2015 #60
And there you have it, the Sanders logic... Amimnoch Dec 2015 #61
Gee, whiz, Hillary! Way to go! n/t bvf Dec 2015 #8
You'd think ejbr Dec 2015 #11
They started the whole event a half hour later than anyone expected, so their schedule pnwmom Dec 2015 #12
AND ejbr Dec 2015 #27
I thought it had something to do with her not wanting to share the restroom. jalan48 Dec 2015 #15
They have such a tight schedule for debates rpannier Dec 2015 #16
LOL! Methinks thou dost pro... cherokeeprogressive Dec 2015 #17
Now we have peepeegate! leftofcool Dec 2015 #18
a lot further way? SmittynMo Dec 2015 #19
You have never seen our court house then. leftofcool Dec 2015 #20
In the Senate office building and many other older buildings, they don't even have ladies' rooms pnwmom Dec 2015 #21
Old buildings like where I work BumRushDaShow Dec 2015 #25
I agree with older buildings, but SmittynMo Dec 2015 #30
Apparently this college holds these debates in a repurposed hockey arena BumRushDaShow Dec 2015 #40
you seem desperate! stonecutter357 Dec 2015 #24
I'd say shame on DNC. They planned it. nt thereismore Dec 2015 #26
ABC could have relaxed their timekeeping when they saw she wasn't there. pnwmom Dec 2015 #51
Yep. It was one of the items the Repub candidates included in their demands. I hope HRC insists tblue37 Dec 2015 #63
Same old crap= daybranch Dec 2015 #28
abc was clearly not up for this restorefreedom Dec 2015 #29
Come on, Give Clinton a break RoccoR5955 Dec 2015 #32
Bathroomgate SCantiGOP Dec 2015 #33
Not me. I'm sneaking away from the table to grab a Pale Ale on the back porch. FSogol Dec 2015 #36
If you have a shot of bourbon SCantiGOP Dec 2015 #38
Thank you pnwmom, for starting this you proved everything you said in the first place. Kalidurga Dec 2015 #39
+infinity BumRushDaShow Dec 2015 #41
Been there, done that -- but without the nerve to be the ringleader. Standing ovation for you! Hekate Dec 2015 #43
Thank you for suggesting it! I belong to an org that is largely women pnwmom Dec 2015 #50
No huge deal aksptth Dec 2015 #42
Waiting? They have no difficulty filling the airways with the blather of pundits or commercials. Hekate Dec 2015 #44
No, it was worse what they did. It sent the symbolic message pnwmom Dec 2015 #47
Yeah I read about that ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #45
Shame on ABC mcar Dec 2015 #46
Exactly. They made us wait a half hour after their announced pnwmom Dec 2015 #48
It seemed like the other breaks were longer mcar Dec 2015 #49
Nah, turns out Hillary wasn't willing to share Mona Dec 2015 #52
That's the nasty spin. The truth is that she could have commandeered pnwmom Dec 2015 #53
Oh BOO HOOOOOO! Cha Dec 2015 #56
LOL! I honestly hope Hillary makes "potty parity" an issue in her campaign. reformist2 Dec 2015 #57
It's a non issue to me OnionPatch Dec 2015 #59
I think the whole thing was staged Matariki Dec 2015 #62

pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
2. Yes, you are a woman of experience, clearly. I was kind of shocked by some of the responses.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 08:16 AM
Dec 2015
 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
3. The biggest non-issue of the debate. Considering all of Hillary's real problems this is bullshit.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 08:18 AM
Dec 2015

pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
4. Except that many people turned it into an issue, by criticizing her for it.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 08:20 AM
Dec 2015

Someone even said that if she needed more time than men to go to the bathroom then what if there was a 3 am call and she had to go to the bathroom?

pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
7. I didn't think I could find the post about the 3 am call, but I found one of them.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 08:30 AM
Dec 2015

There was another poster that said a healthy person wouldn't need to go to the bathroom that often, and so a person who did shouldn't be President, but I don't know where I read it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=926970

pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
10. Nasty sexism. The same kind of people used to say that women weren't qualified
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 08:35 AM
Dec 2015

to be President because of their menstrual cycles.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
22. You might want to communicate that
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 09:22 AM
Dec 2015

to some of your fellow Sanders supporters on DU who decided to make it an issue. Pnwmom's OP is spot on.

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
13. Hillary would already be awake at 3 a.m.!
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 08:53 AM
Dec 2015

I know I am usually up and taking a bathroom break at that time!

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
23. Feel free to check out #5, 6, and 7.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 09:29 AM
Dec 2015

Your side made it into an issue darling, but thanks for bringing it up after again after it was already shown.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
37. ROFLMAO.. Democratic side??? now there's a hoot.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 11:15 AM
Dec 2015

He only hoped onto the Democratic Party wagon because his independent butt could never have gotten elected without jumping onto their coat tails (and it still won't).

A lifetime independent, and outsider heckling the real players in government, and he thinks he can just hop onto the party in the 9th inning and is suddenly entitled to all the perks that the lifetime government LEADERS get??

I may be a "bot", but what exactly does that make you? I'd tell you, but I'm not in the mood to give you a hide for free.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
54. Your research is flawed
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 05:12 PM
Dec 2015

if you believe that Bernie is a "lifetime" independent. He was a Democrat, but the Party left him, when they made a big right turn, during the Viet Nam war. Since then, they have progressively gone right. Today's Democratic Party is nothing like it was then. Many are doing what we can to bring it back to where it belongs. With WE THE PEOPLE, not them, the corporations.

Bernie has won elections, and the Democratic Party is willing to let him run as one of their's, so get over it when he is the nominee.
I suppose you'll be voting for tRump, because Bernie is not a REAL Democrat, and tRump was one and still donates to some of them.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
58. So.. why is he running as the candidate for the party?
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 06:05 PM
Dec 2015

Yes, he has won elections. He's been the Senator of Vermont since the early 90's, and before than in the house, and if I recall right state legislature before that. All that time, and of all the laws that he has either sponsored or cosponsored only three.. that's right THREE have made it to law, and not a single one of them of any real consequence.

Your man should have been up in the balcony section with the hecklers from the Muppets.


In one sense you are correct, and he is the perfect candidate: A lifetime politician, with no real accomplishment, who took the safe stance on virtually everything because he never had to be a real part of anything larger. It's so easy to stand on your principles when you don't really plan on accomplishing anything at all... other than great sounding speeches.

Sorry, at least during the primary, I'm sticking with the REAL lifelong Democrat.. the one who has actually been in the party and didn't join it at the 11th hr. to ride the coat tails after a failed career of accomplishing shit.

Oh, and if Sanders does take the Primary. I will absolutely support him. The potential SCOTUS nominations alone is too important to be petty post primary season.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
60. I have news for you
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 10:20 PM
Dec 2015

Clinton started out as a RepubliCON, so she is not a truly lifelong Democrat.

 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
61. And there you have it, the Sanders logic...
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 10:35 PM
Dec 2015

compare a candidate who hopped onboard months ago (only to ride the coattails of the party he's scorned for decades) to one who did it almost half a century ago.

Yep.. that's a comparison to bring to the table.

ejbr

(5,892 posts)
11. You'd think
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 08:46 AM
Dec 2015

ABC could have extended this break and shortened the next. I agree that this was unnecessary

pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
12. They started the whole event a half hour later than anyone expected, so their schedule
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 08:47 AM
Dec 2015

obviously wasn't sacrosanct.

ejbr

(5,892 posts)
27. AND
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 10:24 AM
Dec 2015

live television shows are nothing new. Are we to believe that every relevant player was in place on time every time for all these decades?

jalan48

(14,914 posts)
15. I thought it had something to do with her not wanting to share the restroom.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 09:03 AM
Dec 2015

She waited for it to be cleared before she would use it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251931777

rpannier

(24,925 posts)
16. They have such a tight schedule for debates
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 09:07 AM
Dec 2015

I mean, you ask a question about the economy, world affairs, whatever and they give you two minutes to answer because the networks need more time on their overpaid newsreaders

They should have made some sort of adjustment so she had the closer restroom, even if it meant temporarily changing mens and women's restrooms for a few hours.
The more likely need for a trip to the restroom men can finish more quickly as they can do it standing up

The whole debate system is a farce.
To me, it seems to be more about the dimbulbs asking the questions then it is about getting real, thoughtful answers

I'll still never forget wolf blitz asking the republicans a question about evolution and then asking them to raise their hands if they believed in it.
I thought, "WTF?! Is it 2nd grade now?"

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
17. LOL! Methinks thou dost pro...
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 09:08 AM
Dec 2015

Well you know what I mean.

That might be the longest loo post in the history of the intertubes.

SmittynMo

(3,544 posts)
19. a lot further way?
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 09:14 AM
Dec 2015

Even I know that when they build buildings, they always put bathrooms next to each other to save on costs of plumbing. I have never been to a building, that didn't have restrooms next to each other. And to take it further, for each story of the building, bathrooms are located above and below each other. Again, for the same reason.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
20. You have never seen our court house then.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 09:16 AM
Dec 2015

Men on one end of a long hall and ladies on the other end.

pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
21. In the Senate office building and many other older buildings, they don't even have ladies' rooms
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 09:18 AM
Dec 2015

on all the floors -- because it wasn't expected that they'd need them.

You must be living in a place with all relatively new buildings.

BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
25. Old buildings like where I work
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 09:58 AM
Dec 2015

STILL have the bullshit of having a ladies' room down hallways, around corners, and as far away as possible from entrances and main conference areas and by no means near any men's bathroom. And quite a few ladies' rooms still have a minimal number of stalls meaning a line often forms when people are let out of a meeting, etc.

The only thing that is starting to help is the ADA that requires accessible bathrooms - in a number of cases when retrofitted into old buildings, are unisex (single stall), and often nearer entrances, elevators, and where people may congregate.

SmittynMo

(3,544 posts)
30. I agree with older buildings, but
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 10:31 AM
Dec 2015

does anyone know how much further away her queen throne was? How old was this building?

Ya know it really doesn't matter. This subject is ridiculous. Must be a slow news day.

Oh yeah, 2 week vacations coming in the freespeech world.

BumRushDaShow

(169,761 posts)
40. Apparently this college holds these debates in a repurposed hockey arena
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 12:37 PM
Dec 2015

I'm sure there's plenty of facilities around for the female cheerleaders.

pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
51. ABC could have relaxed their timekeeping when they saw she wasn't there.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 02:15 PM
Dec 2015

But yes there should have been something in the contract about not aiming the camera at an empty podium. I understand that's pretty standard.

tblue37

(68,436 posts)
63. Yep. It was one of the items the Repub candidates included in their demands. I hope HRC insists
Wed Dec 23, 2015, 12:42 AM
Dec 2015

on such decency and consideration next time. Heck, BS and MOM should also insist on it.

But it shouldn't even need to be negotiated. It should be an automatic consideration on the part of the broadcaster.

daybranch

(1,309 posts)
28. Same old crap=
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 10:27 AM
Dec 2015

trying to make Hillary out as a victim. We Bernie people want to discuss issues, Hillary people don't. So they whoop up the poor mistreated female meme at every opportunity. I would just as soon she stayed there considering the lack of straight talk from her later.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
29. abc was clearly not up for this
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 10:30 AM
Dec 2015

they were amateur hour all the way, and this was just one more oversight that a truly professional organization would not have allowed to happen. and not extending the break when one wan't back was rude..they were being nasty becsuse they could. shameful.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
32. Come on, Give Clinton a break
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 10:55 AM
Dec 2015

She needed more time to memorize her last line. You know, the one that ABC wrote for her. Not to mention, her whole appearance was scripted.

SCantiGOP

(14,720 posts)
33. Bathroomgate
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 11:00 AM
Dec 2015

Another issue to split DU!
We are like a family arguing at the dinner table - after a while it's more the argument than the issues.

FSogol

(47,623 posts)
36. Not me. I'm sneaking away from the table to grab a Pale Ale on the back porch.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 11:10 AM
Dec 2015

You all have fun "discussing" these important issues of our times.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
39. Thank you pnwmom, for starting this you proved everything you said in the first place.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 11:52 AM
Dec 2015

Clearly there are some people here that need to be plied with a gallon of water and to be made wait in a long restroom line. But, I digress.

Anyone who has read more than a few of my posts might get the impression I am a bit of a lunatic. They couldn't be farther from the truth, I am a lot of a lunatic. Many years back I was at a fourth of July event near the capitol building in Minnesota. I had to go to the bathroom as bad as a person forced to drink a gallon of water and made to stay in a long restroom line. The line was out the door for the ladies room. It took about 5 minutes for the line just to get inside and then I could see it was still about 30 women deep. The mens room line had about 10 men in line. When the line to the mens room died I staged a rebellion. I took 3 other women to the mens room and had them guard the door while women used the restroom 4 at a time until our line was done. And I am not sorry. Nah.

Hekate

(100,133 posts)
43. Been there, done that -- but without the nerve to be the ringleader. Standing ovation for you!
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 01:50 PM
Dec 2015

Arguments like this make me lose my faith in -- well, not humanity, exactly, but certainly a big chunk of the American people. I've tried explaining it to the more obdurate in words of one syllable, but after awhile I think some of them just get off on it.

pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
50. Thank you for suggesting it! I belong to an org that is largely women
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 02:13 PM
Dec 2015

and when we meet, one of the men's restrooms always gets relabeled. It's always odd using a facility with urinals, but when you gotta go, you gotta go.

Shame on those who criticized her for it.

 

aksptth

(68 posts)
42. No huge deal
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 12:48 PM
Dec 2015

Aside from an apparent historical unfairness about female restroom etiquette, I didn't view it as a major issue. It didn't affect my feelings about Hillary in any way. Not sure what ABC could have done -- I think sitting around waiting for Hillary to get back to the podium would have been worse.

Hekate

(100,133 posts)
44. Waiting? They have no difficulty filling the airways with the blather of pundits or commercials.
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 01:52 PM
Dec 2015

Rude, rude, rude -- on the part of ABC.

pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
47. No, it was worse what they did. It sent the symbolic message
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 02:07 PM
Dec 2015

that her presence on the stage wasn't as important as that of the two men. They couldn't wait 30 seconds for her to come back.

Things get delayed on shows like this all the time. The commentator could and should have engaged in some fill-in blabber.

This subject her to a lot of unfair ridicule, even on DU.

ismnotwasm

(42,674 posts)
45. Yeah I read about that
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 01:53 PM
Dec 2015

It's a common issue


I'm still laughing over the "golden toilet' and 'won't share a bathroom with a Bernie supporter' references though--Pure comedy gold--I can't even be irritated it's so ridiculous

mcar

(46,059 posts)
46. Shame on ABC
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 02:02 PM
Dec 2015

Like they couldn't have spent 30 seconds letting Steph and his crew bloviate?

pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
48. Exactly. They made us wait a half hour after their announced
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 02:09 PM
Dec 2015

start time so we could listen to them all blab. But they couldn't change their schedule to let her get back from the bathroom.

mcar

(46,059 posts)
49. It seemed like the other breaks were longer
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 02:10 PM
Dec 2015

They were doing reports from Iowa and NH watch parties along with the commercial break. Really poor, thoughtless planning.

pnwmom

(110,261 posts)
53. That's the nasty spin. The truth is that she could have commandeered
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 02:58 PM
Dec 2015

the bathroom, but instead her aide let the O'Malley lady go in first and finish. So instead of being recognized for a kindness, she gets criticized by Bernie people.

There were many reasons she might have waited for the O'Malley lady to finish before she went in. Her aide was there and she might have wanted to speak to her out of earshot of the competition. And she had her Secret Service protection with her, and might have thought the O'Malley lady would have been uncomfortable. Whatever reason it was, she was kind enough to let the O'Malley lady go in first, even though she didn't have to. And instead she gets smeared by people like you passing on this drivel.

OnionPatch

(6,328 posts)
59. It's a non issue to me
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 06:09 PM
Dec 2015

I support Bernie but can understand why Hillary was late returning. The larger issue of potty parity has always bothered me (seriously) because I've spent so many hours in line for the ladies restroom, missing the shows, the concerts and so on.

Women's bladders are about a third of the size of men's. (Because we have our baby-making parts down there taking up space). That means women need to use the restroom about three times more often than men. To have true potty parity, there needs to be three times as many women's restrooms as men's.

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
62. I think the whole thing was staged
Mon Dec 21, 2015, 10:39 PM
Dec 2015

So that the conversation would go: "women take longer in the bathroom, amiright ladies?" or perhaps "Ladies, she could have been any one of us." or maybe "The Everyday Sexism of Women Waiting in Public Toilet Lines".

Not falling for it. Too obvious.

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