2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumShame on you, ABC! Hillary was late coming back to the debate
because the only available ladies room was a lot further from the stage.And ABC knew it. But they couldnt wait even a minute for Hillary to return from her long trek to the ladies after the break.
Instead, ABC decided to focus its camera on her empty podium and announce that they were going forward without her as if her presence didnt matter. As if it didnt matter if she heard the question and response being given by another candidate. As if it was her fault.
And shame on everyone here who instantly judged Hillary, claiming she was looking for attention, that she was pulling a stunt, showing distain for the debate process, engaged in debate theater, or making a grand entry.
Ladies, she could have been any one of us.(Except that most of us have never stood on a national stage for more than two hours, trying to drink enough water to keep our throats hydrated, while having to worry about how long it would take us to get to the bathroom.)
Old buildings all over the country were built during an era when architects included fewer restrooms for women than men, because women werent expected to be using them much. Women were supposed to be at home taking care of children, not at the ABC studio or in the Senate.
It was only in the 80s when researchers with stopwatches conducted studies proving that women need more restrooms than men because on the average they need twice as much time as men to use the facilities. (A woman using a bathroom stall has many more actions to take than a man using a urinal. Plus women are more likely to wash their hands -- and to use soap.)
But old building codes werent designed for the modern era and so it is still harder for women to deal with basic bathroom needs than it is for men. Hillary, of course, would be used to this. The Senate is notorious for its lack of ladies rooms, with women often having to attend to their physical needs on a different floor from their office.
Bathrooms are a feminist issue, because the lack of adequate bathrooms can prevent women from engaging as equal partners in the public sphere. This was proven once again on Saturday.
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/12/20/finally-an-explanation-for-hillary-clintons-long-bathroom-break/
Not a lot of wiggle room.
With the mens room significantly closer to the debate stage, Mrs. Clintons male opponents, Bernie Sanders and Martin OMalley, made it back quicker and, well, it takes women longer, as Mrs. Clinton pointed out after returning slightly late from a commercial break during the first Democratic debate in Las Vegas.
But on Saturday, the ABC News hosts, tied to the schedule of live TV, proceeded with their questioning about the economy with an empty podium awaiting Mrs. Clinton. Sorry, she deadpanned when she finally took her place.
Aides said they had been concerned during the walk through before the debate that the ladies room was such a schlep. The campaigns vice chairwoman, Huma Abedin, had timed the distance to and from the podium and expressed concerns to organizers, but the gymnasium setting meant there were no closer options. She relayed to Mrs. Clinton that she would have to be speedy, said several aides involved in debate planning.
http://time.com/3653871/womens-bathroom-lines-sexist-potty-parity/
The Everyday Sexism of Women Waiting in Public Toilet Lines
If youre a woman, chances are youve a) spent time fidgeting in a long line waiting to use a public toilet, b) delayed a bodily function because you dont want to or havent the time to waste standing in line to use a public toilet, c) considered sneaking into a mens roomillegal in some places, or d) cursed loudly because of all of the above.
Faced with a long restroom line that spiraled up and around a circular stairwell at a recent museum visit, I opted not to wait. Why do we put up with this? This isnt a minor pet peeve, but a serious question. Despite years of potty parity laws, women are still forced to stand in lines at malls, schools, stadiums, concerts, fair grounds, theme parks, and other crowded public spaces. This is frustrating, uncomfortable, and, in some circumstances, humiliating. Its also a form of discrimination, as it disproportionately affects women.
MADem
(135,425 posts)pnwmom
(110,261 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)pnwmom
(110,261 posts)Someone even said that if she needed more time than men to go to the bathroom then what if there was a 3 am call and she had to go to the bathroom?
Scuba
(53,475 posts)pnwmom
(110,261 posts)pnwmom
(110,261 posts)There was another poster that said a healthy person wouldn't need to go to the bathroom that often, and so a person who did shouldn't be President, but I don't know where I read it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=926970
Scuba
(53,475 posts)pnwmom
(110,261 posts)to be President because of their menstrual cycles.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)to some of your fellow Sanders supporters on DU who decided to make it an issue. Pnwmom's OP is spot on.
Cha
(319,086 posts)Human101948
(3,457 posts)I know I am usually up and taking a bathroom break at that time!
Duval
(4,280 posts)riversedge
(80,814 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Especially the Hillbots.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Your side made it into an issue darling, but thanks for bringing it up after again after it was already shown.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)I am not a bot.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)He only hoped onto the Democratic Party wagon because his independent butt could never have gotten elected without jumping onto their coat tails (and it still won't).
A lifetime independent, and outsider heckling the real players in government, and he thinks he can just hop onto the party in the 9th inning and is suddenly entitled to all the perks that the lifetime government LEADERS get??
I may be a "bot", but what exactly does that make you? I'd tell you, but I'm not in the mood to give you a hide for free.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)if you believe that Bernie is a "lifetime" independent. He was a Democrat, but the Party left him, when they made a big right turn, during the Viet Nam war. Since then, they have progressively gone right. Today's Democratic Party is nothing like it was then. Many are doing what we can to bring it back to where it belongs. With WE THE PEOPLE, not them, the corporations.
Bernie has won elections, and the Democratic Party is willing to let him run as one of their's, so get over it when he is the nominee.
I suppose you'll be voting for tRump, because Bernie is not a REAL Democrat, and tRump was one and still donates to some of them.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Yes, he has won elections. He's been the Senator of Vermont since the early 90's, and before than in the house, and if I recall right state legislature before that. All that time, and of all the laws that he has either sponsored or cosponsored only three.. that's right THREE have made it to law, and not a single one of them of any real consequence.
Your man should have been up in the balcony section with the hecklers from the Muppets.

In one sense you are correct, and he is the perfect candidate: A lifetime politician, with no real accomplishment, who took the safe stance on virtually everything because he never had to be a real part of anything larger. It's so easy to stand on your principles when you don't really plan on accomplishing anything at all... other than great sounding speeches.
Sorry, at least during the primary, I'm sticking with the REAL lifelong Democrat.. the one who has actually been in the party and didn't join it at the 11th hr. to ride the coat tails after a failed career of accomplishing shit.
Oh, and if Sanders does take the Primary. I will absolutely support him. The potential SCOTUS nominations alone is too important to be petty post primary season.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)Clinton started out as a RepubliCON, so she is not a truly lifelong Democrat.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)compare a candidate who hopped onboard months ago (only to ride the coattails of the party he's scorned for decades) to one who did it almost half a century ago.
Yep.. that's a comparison to bring to the table.
bvf
(6,604 posts)ejbr
(5,892 posts)ABC could have extended this break and shortened the next. I agree that this was unnecessary
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)obviously wasn't sacrosanct.
live television shows are nothing new. Are we to believe that every relevant player was in place on time every time for all these decades?
jalan48
(14,914 posts)She waited for it to be cleared before she would use it.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251931777
rpannier
(24,925 posts)I mean, you ask a question about the economy, world affairs, whatever and they give you two minutes to answer because the networks need more time on their overpaid newsreaders
They should have made some sort of adjustment so she had the closer restroom, even if it meant temporarily changing mens and women's restrooms for a few hours.
The more likely need for a trip to the restroom men can finish more quickly as they can do it standing up
The whole debate system is a farce.
To me, it seems to be more about the dimbulbs asking the questions then it is about getting real, thoughtful answers
I'll still never forget wolf blitz asking the republicans a question about evolution and then asking them to raise their hands if they believed in it.
I thought, "WTF?! Is it 2nd grade now?"
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Well you know what I mean.
That might be the longest loo post in the history of the intertubes.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)Even I know that when they build buildings, they always put bathrooms next to each other to save on costs of plumbing. I have never been to a building, that didn't have restrooms next to each other. And to take it further, for each story of the building, bathrooms are located above and below each other. Again, for the same reason.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Men on one end of a long hall and ladies on the other end.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)on all the floors -- because it wasn't expected that they'd need them.
You must be living in a place with all relatively new buildings.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)STILL have the bullshit of having a ladies' room down hallways, around corners, and as far away as possible from entrances and main conference areas and by no means near any men's bathroom. And quite a few ladies' rooms still have a minimal number of stalls meaning a line often forms when people are let out of a meeting, etc.
The only thing that is starting to help is the ADA that requires accessible bathrooms - in a number of cases when retrofitted into old buildings, are unisex (single stall), and often nearer entrances, elevators, and where people may congregate.
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)does anyone know how much further away her queen throne was? How old was this building?
Ya know it really doesn't matter. This subject is ridiculous. Must be a slow news day.
Oh yeah, 2 week vacations coming in the freespeech world.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)I'm sure there's plenty of facilities around for the female cheerleaders.
stonecutter357
(13,045 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)pnwmom
(110,261 posts)But yes there should have been something in the contract about not aiming the camera at an empty podium. I understand that's pretty standard.
tblue37
(68,436 posts)on such decency and consideration next time. Heck, BS and MOM should also insist on it.
But it shouldn't even need to be negotiated. It should be an automatic consideration on the part of the broadcaster.
daybranch
(1,309 posts)trying to make Hillary out as a victim. We Bernie people want to discuss issues, Hillary people don't. So they whoop up the poor mistreated female meme at every opportunity. I would just as soon she stayed there considering the lack of straight talk from her later.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)they were amateur hour all the way, and this was just one more oversight that a truly professional organization would not have allowed to happen. and not extending the break when one wan't back was rude..they were being nasty becsuse they could. shameful.
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)She needed more time to memorize her last line. You know, the one that ABC wrote for her. Not to mention, her whole appearance was scripted.
SCantiGOP
(14,720 posts)Another issue to split DU!
We are like a family arguing at the dinner table - after a while it's more the argument than the issues.
FSogol
(47,623 posts)You all have fun "discussing" these important issues of our times.
SCantiGOP
(14,720 posts)I'll meet you on the porch.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Clearly there are some people here that need to be plied with a gallon of water and to be made wait in a long restroom line. But, I digress.
Anyone who has read more than a few of my posts might get the impression I am a bit of a lunatic. They couldn't be farther from the truth, I am a lot of a lunatic. Many years back I was at a fourth of July event near the capitol building in Minnesota. I had to go to the bathroom as bad as a person forced to drink a gallon of water and made to stay in a long restroom line. The line was out the door for the ladies room. It took about 5 minutes for the line just to get inside and then I could see it was still about 30 women deep. The mens room line had about 10 men in line. When the line to the mens room died I staged a rebellion. I took 3 other women to the mens room and had them guard the door while women used the restroom 4 at a time until our line was done. And I am not sorry. Nah.
BumRushDaShow
(169,761 posts)Hekate
(100,133 posts)Arguments like this make me lose my faith in -- well, not humanity, exactly, but certainly a big chunk of the American people. I've tried explaining it to the more obdurate in words of one syllable, but after awhile I think some of them just get off on it.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)and when we meet, one of the men's restrooms always gets relabeled. It's always odd using a facility with urinals, but when you gotta go, you gotta go.
Shame on those who criticized her for it.
aksptth
(68 posts)Aside from an apparent historical unfairness about female restroom etiquette, I didn't view it as a major issue. It didn't affect my feelings about Hillary in any way. Not sure what ABC could have done -- I think sitting around waiting for Hillary to get back to the podium would have been worse.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)Rude, rude, rude -- on the part of ABC.
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)that her presence on the stage wasn't as important as that of the two men. They couldn't wait 30 seconds for her to come back.
Things get delayed on shows like this all the time. The commentator could and should have engaged in some fill-in blabber.
This subject her to a lot of unfair ridicule, even on DU.
ismnotwasm
(42,674 posts)It's a common issue
I'm still laughing over the "golden toilet' and 'won't share a bathroom with a Bernie supporter' references though--Pure comedy gold--I can't even be irritated it's so ridiculous
mcar
(46,059 posts)Like they couldn't have spent 30 seconds letting Steph and his crew bloviate?
pnwmom
(110,261 posts)start time so we could listen to them all blab. But they couldn't change their schedule to let her get back from the bathroom.
mcar
(46,059 posts)They were doing reports from Iowa and NH watch parties along with the commercial break. Really poor, thoughtless planning.
Mona
(135 posts)pnwmom
(110,261 posts)the bathroom, but instead her aide let the O'Malley lady go in first and finish. So instead of being recognized for a kindness, she gets criticized by Bernie people.
There were many reasons she might have waited for the O'Malley lady to finish before she went in. Her aide was there and she might have wanted to speak to her out of earshot of the competition. And she had her Secret Service protection with her, and might have thought the O'Malley lady would have been uncomfortable. Whatever reason it was, she was kind enough to let the O'Malley lady go in first, even though she didn't have to. And instead she gets smeared by people like you passing on this drivel.
Cha
(319,086 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)OnionPatch
(6,328 posts)I support Bernie but can understand why Hillary was late returning. The larger issue of potty parity has always bothered me (seriously) because I've spent so many hours in line for the ladies restroom, missing the shows, the concerts and so on.
Women's bladders are about a third of the size of men's. (Because we have our baby-making parts down there taking up space). That means women need to use the restroom about three times more often than men. To have true potty parity, there needs to be three times as many women's restrooms as men's.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)So that the conversation would go: "women take longer in the bathroom, amiright ladies?" or perhaps "Ladies, she could have been any one of us." or maybe "The Everyday Sexism of Women Waiting in Public Toilet Lines".
Not falling for it. Too obvious.