2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumResponse to liberalnarb (Original post)
AZ Progressive This message was self-deleted by its author.
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Please enlighten us.
(crickets)
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)She voted for harsher laws ramping up the war on drugs.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)those rights to marriage alone. The verbiage, in a rush to insult Hillary, sort of insults lots of other people and has a very clear heterosexual point of view. I take great issue with the number of years Hillary took to support marriage equality, but you can't say she opposed 'gay rights' until 2010. Because she didn't, because 'gay rights' are really LGBT rights and because those rights are not exclusively about marriage.
I did not read the rest of the list after that. Would you?
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)lacking in Christmas spirit. It is your chart that reduces LGBT rights to the term 'gay rights' and then equates the entire spectrum of those rights to what you call 'gay marriage'. It's inaccurate, Hillary aside. The fact is she did not oppose gay rights, as you say. She opposed marriage equality for far too long, and for that reason I pick another candidate, but she's been very good on many LGBT issues over the years. Back when Bernie was a young man starting out a lifetime of support, the rights he supported had nothing to do with marriage, that was decades away. So again, it is inaccurate to equate LGBT rights to marriage equality alone, and it is really far better to use the term marriage equality rather than 'gay marriage' because the marriages are just marriages.
It's not accurate, even if you leave Hillary out of it entirely. My complaints by and large don't have to do with her. I do think that using bogus and extreme negative campaign rhetoric of the very sort Bernie eschews is an idea that can only be called stupid even if it is done with great excellence. This mediocre smear fest, as I said, insults other people on the way to insulting Hillary. Giant error.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)dsc
(52,166 posts)the gay man you are so casually dismissing in this thread is a Bernie supporter. It is crystal clear what you think of LGBT issues and people by your behavior in this tread. And it is by no means pretty.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Switch Positions to Whatever will facilitate achieving her current objective. The woman has ZERO Character plain and simple. To say that you are voting for her is to demonstrate a similar lack of character or perceptual or ethical deficiencies in not recognizing her record of incompetence, irresponsibility and dishonesty.
George II
(67,782 posts)liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)Really? Where are the REAL facts then? These are facts. Deal with it. If you have a problem with them then maybe you should re think who you support. These are cold hard facts. The truth hurts
MoreGOPoop
(417 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Yes, the truth hurts which is why this chart contains little truth.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)for fracking where she agrees with the Republicons. Not sure what she wants to do to Social Security but she certainly doesn't want to raise the cap. In fact, none of the social justice issues she supports will cost her friends a dime. She is ok with the ever growing wealth disparity.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)As mentioned by the other folks up thread... substance isn't really required.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)substance.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)that there are often two sides and proceed to debate the issue. Explain why they BELIEVE it's false not demand that everyone agree. You don't like to debate issues, do you?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Including sanders supporters agree with me, and yes on this one that's all I need.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)on your side while they pick your pocket.
HoneychildMooseMoss
(251 posts)TheFarseer
(9,326 posts)Hillary is only a good candidate if you have inside the Beltway wisdom. Not if you're trying to work for a living.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)These types of posts which include meme's not based on facts do nothing to further the discussion here on DU.
Oh and maybe ask the OP what happened to O'Malley any meme worth its salt should include him, he is running for the nomination you know.
TheFarseer
(9,326 posts)Hillary has always believed gays have the right to vote. Super.
Ps I like Omalley but he's polling at 3%
dsc
(52,166 posts)in the 2000's. You do realize that tomorrow, I could be fired from my job, evicted from my apartment, refused service in any public accomadation all because I am gay. LGBT issues aren't all 'gay marriage' (by the way the correct term is marriage equality). That is what a gay man WHO SUPPORTS BERNIE was pointing out upthread. Not that you care one whit about LGBT issues.
not sure where I ever said "gay marriage" Second, not sure how Hillary is more of a champion of LGBT issues than Bernie. They both seem about equally friendly toward the LGBT community even though some would disagree and point out Bernie supported marriage equality first. Third, I think gay/lesbian couples should have the same rights as heterosexual couples. One of my best friend's is a gay man who just got married - allthough if you wanted to say marriage equality is not my number 1 priority, you would be correct.
George II
(67,782 posts)Thank you.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Which parts are untrue?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)By Clinton and Sanders supporters.
Meme's aren't worth my time that's why my comment "lacked substance" as it was so kindly put.
elleng
(131,140 posts)who has many accomplishments, for exampl:
Martin O'Malley:
1. Ended death penalty in Maryland
2. Prevented fracking in Maryland and put regulations in the way to prevent next GOP Gov Hogan fom easily allowing fracking.
3. Provided health insurance for 380,000
4. Reduced infant mortality to an all time low.
5. Provided meals to thousands of hungry children and moved toward a goal for eradicating childhood hunger.
6. Enacted a $10.10 living wage and a $11. minimum wage for State workers.
7. Supporter the Dream Act
8. Cut income taxes for 86% of Marylanders (raised taxes on the rich).
9. Reformed Marylands tax code to make it more progressive.
10. Enacted some of the nations most comprehensive reforms to protect homeowners from foreclosure.
Mother Jones magazine called him the best candidate on environmental issues.
Article here:
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/12/martin-omalley-longshot-presidential-candidate-and-real-climate-hawk
AND many specific plans, that he's set out:
15 Goals to Rebuild the American Dream
https://martinomalley.com/category/15-goals/
Addiction treatment and prevention
https://martinomalley.com/policy/addiction-treatment-and-prevention/
Criminal Justice Reform
https://martinomalley.com/policy/criminal-justice/
Making College Debt Free for all Americans
https://martinomalley.com/policy/make-college-debt-free/
Holding Wall Street Accountable
https://14d2r744okfe40r1ug1oqm6y-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/OMalley-Wall-Street-Reform.pdf
Expanding Social Security
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/expanding-social-security/
Homeland Security
https://martinomalley.com/vision/homeland-security/
Immigration
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/immigration/
National Service
https://martinomalley.com/national-service/
Environment
https://martinomalley.com/climate/iowa/
https://martinomalley.com/climate/
https://martinomalley.com/climate/agenda/
Foreign Policy
https://martinomalley.com/policy/truman-national-security/
Gun Reform
https://martinomalley.com/policy/preventing-and-reducing-gun-violence/
Trade Policy
https://martinomalley.com/policy/trade-policy/
Campaign Finance Reform (Restoring our American Democracy)
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/restoring-our-american-democracy/
Why We Need a Constitutional Amendment to Secure the Right to Vote:
https://martinomalley.com/the-latest/news/right-to-vote/
Veterans and Military Families
https://martinomalley.com/policy/veterans/
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)My mistake, but the facts presented are not false.
elleng
(131,140 posts)and it's way past time for people to continue to make this mistake.
Thanks for acknowledging a mistake.
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)This graphic was more aimed at the Bernie/Hillary crowds.
elleng
(131,140 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)And it's clear when they don't even include O'Malley, this is just more agenda driven bias.
Sorry your candidate gets excluded so often (even I did it once...).
elleng
(131,140 posts)Thanks
I keep hearing posters say it's all about the issues, whenever a thread is started that is actually about "real issues" it drops like a rock. The only threads that seem to keep on the front page are the ones where everyone is arguing about the other candidates and how bad the "other" person is.
O'Malley has addressed the "real issues" but he keeps getting ignored by the media, and here on DU. I know you, and others, have started many threads about what O'Malley is going to do to fix things, and he has covered just about every major issue there is, yet the majority here never bother to even look at the threads.
Contrary to what many may think, it's not all about the war between Hillary and Bernie. Most people want the candidates to address the issues, not fight back and forth. I think many will be surprised when the primaries start and those who have been listening start supporting O'Malley.
elleng
(131,140 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)When an entire other candidate is not accounted for in a meme it's crap.
Also as you said to me upthread "your response lacks substance"...
Try again Rhett.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)to discuss issues, but nothing. I have posted many, many OP's about issues, how many have you posted? How many has any HRC supporter posted? Let's face it, you don't care what she stands for, you don't care that she is beholden to the billionaires and why? Maybe you should tell us why. Why do you support someone that betrayed her party and the country and helped Georgie Bush sell his war?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Why don't you spend some time doing the leg work and figuring it out before flinging the usual name calling at me.
Maybe we don't discuss issues with you because there is no point... I already know your response and you again just proved me correct.
Look in a mirror occasionally, it would do you a world of good.
dsc
(52,166 posts)I have been stiffed, so frankly I don't bother.
George II
(67,782 posts)liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)He's got quite a good record. I like that he has the evidence to back up his statements and the lie in the history of the cities and states he has governed.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)party jumped on the Bernwagon. But I think Hillary's personality cult would be too much to overcome anyway
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)I still struggle to understand why people support Mrs Clinton
tazkcmo
(7,302 posts)Nothing says leadership like maiming a few hundred thousand dirty brown people and soldiers.
George II
(67,782 posts)This is, without exaggeration, at least the tenth time this has shown up on DU. In fact, it's the third time this week!
By the way, it's rife with inaccuracies (I'll stop short of calling them lies)
Most glaringly, Sanders DID vote for prisons for profit and excessive incarceration, Clinton did NOT!
Try again.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Response to liberalnarb (Original post)
Post removed
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Paul is polling about 2% and basically is not in the running.
Assuming the Dem Party will succeed in sinking Bernie, our choice will be between fascists and religious wackos. It always is anyway. And with Cruz, we could get a Twofer.
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)But the people who do that are not the religious wackos. They are people like Cruz. Sanctimonious con men.
Santorum is definitely of the religious wacko persuasion.
The jury is out on Huckabee. My guess is he is a con when it comes to his use of religion. Right up there with Rev. Robert Tilton, Rev. Benny Hinn, Pat Rovbertson. John Hagee and all the others who prey on the stupidest people in our midst.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Things like rt promoting false graphics like this are why Putin is so "loved". False propaganda being pushed at DU as the truth.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Nice try at propaganda
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Either. So the lie is Sanders supporting gay rights a lifetime since he wasn't for marriage equality until 2009, or both supported gay rights while neither supported marriage equality until just recently. Take your pick but the first comparison is a lie and I stop at the first lie I read.
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)He voted against DOMA. And Hillary didn't have much of an opinion on any LGBT rights until 2010. He also voted against Don't Ask Don't Tell, and was responsible for the court decisions that struck down DOMA.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/fighting-for-lgbt-equality/
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)marriage equality. It is in the records. We know this. And it is an issue he plays with that tells us he is not as honest, or the same ole politician as others.
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)he was in support of gay marriage but he has been FIGHTING for it for years. He has always opposed measures to ban gay marriage. Calling somebody a liar is a strong accusation. I would watch it in the future. Do some research before you claim someone is lying!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)I am calling the chart a lie. The first and only comparison I read about "gay rights" is a lie. That is not calling a person a liar. The information on the charts very first comparison is a lie.
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)Why should I believe what you are saying is true?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Sanders stated reasoning for DOMA vote was it was up to states. 2000 Vermont was having the discussion and Sanders stayed silent. Refused to answer. 2006 Sanders made the statement that now was not the time ot push marriage equality. 2009 Sanders came out for it.
Do the research. I gave you the time lines.
Or don't.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Don't tell me you're also unaware of her fierce opposition to marriage equality?