Can Bernie or Hillary change anything??

[darkangel218]

Most likely not.

I hate to be a Debbie downer. But the oligarchy won't allow it.

I am not saying to give up. It's just that we won't see any changes.



(Prove me otherwise, if possible)

How can we beat the oligarchy??

[Warren Stupidity]

1. A political party with functional majorities

In congress and a Supreme Court not determined to obstruct can effect massive changes.

The oligarchy could at that point step in and attempt a brute force obstruction but otherwise they would have to step back and work within the process to undo those changes.

See for example the New Deal and 50 years later the Reagan era.

[darkangel218]

5. Ok. So its doable.

[Cal33]

22. Yes, it's doable, but not in the first two years. Bernie Sanders, with the help of Elizabeth

Warren will have to work hard during this time to get enough Liberals elected to
Congress.

I think this is what the two intend to do: They will speak out loud and clear each
time the Republicans block some bill which the Democrats are trying to get passed -
a bill that will benefit the American people. They will explain how the American
people will be hurting, if this bill did not pass. And they will make sure to let
everyone know who is blocking the bill, and how they will be benefiting by not
letting the bill to pass.

When this happens each and every time for two whole years, enough people will be
hearing it, and even the not-too-bright ones will begin to understand a little what
is happening. I hope enough people will respond by not electing corporatist politicians
to Congress in 2018. Bernie and Elizabeth will be repeating these points -- loud, clear, and long -- to make sure that everyone will get to hear and understand them.

Obama was too quiet. The result was that too many people only got to listen to
the propaganda and lies of the Main Stream Media.

[newfie11]

40. Doable if we vote the do nothing's out of congress

The midterms are extremely important and many don't vote.
This must change if we are to turn this country around

[Cal33]

42. Yes, too many Democrats don't bother to voe in the midterms. They must be educated

to the importance of electing enough real Democratic members to the Senate and the
House. It's the only way to give the president enough power to change America.
Without enough Dem. members in Congress, what the president can do is vey limited.

[brooklynite]

2. Like Obama didn't change anything?

Health care?

Tax policy?

Gay rights?

Relations with Iran and Cuba?

[darkangel218]

8. Healthcare?

Do you realize how many cannot afford the premiums or/and the compayments?
Taxes? Not even close to what we need!
Gay rights? YES on that,! Thank god.
Cuba and Iran, hell yes!!!

What about those who have no medical care???

Millions of Americans still???

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal. Emma Goldman

[tammywammy]

4. Not without a congress that agrees with them

And it's highly unlikely the House will have democratic control.

[JackInGreen]

6. Bernies said that no one can achieve anything unless we stand together

So the question isn't 'can they change things' , but 'do we have the fortitude to change things'. Tag. You're it.

[darkangel218]

10. +1

Can we stand together for change???????

[FreakinDJ]

7. HRC won't change any thing - except maybe another war

[darkangel218]

9. How is Bernie going to change anything?

We are hopeless.

I just realized how hopeless we are.

Unless we fight the oligarchy.

DWS has to go. And all the other DP corrupted assholes!!

[FreakinDJ]

14. Bernie didn't start with Big Banks and Wall St financiers - HRC did

And yes the question still applies - What do they expect for their money

We were all taken back when shortly after taking office we discovered all the financing Obama received from Wall St financiers. And it sure did explain the "Trickle Down Recovery" and millions of foreclosures America was forced to endure.

Hillary has started off down that exact same path guided by the 1%

[darkangel218]

16. She won't win the GE anyway.

[FreakinDJ]

17. Yet she'll manipulate the DNC because "Its her turn"

If this is the way she does business in the primaries what chance do us little people stand once she has stacked her administration and the Federal government with her Wall St cronies

[darkangel218]

18. She is already manipulating the DNC.

But she won't win the GE.

It's not just her untruths, but the oligarchy dictating who's next.

I don't see a way out anymore.

I think it's too late for the will of people to have a say. We are screwed :'(

[99th_Monkey]

11. "By us ALL standing up together, old & young, black, white, yellow, brown..Enough Is Enough!!"

THIS ^ is how we're doing it. One day at a time, one foot in front of the other, relentlessly,
without giving up on democracy, or giving in to the exploitative pressures exerted by the Oligarchs.

This is just the very beginning of a very long & difficult struggle. Yes, the odds are stacked heavily
against us. Yes, it's anything but a "sure thing". Yes, there will be huge setbacks, apparently "impassible"
obstacles, and it often feels like we're trying to achieve the "impossible".

But this is the ONLY way real beneficial change EVER happens, and I'm honored and proud to be a
part of it, however small of a part that may be.

Take good heart. Often it's darkest just before the dawn.

[JackInGreen]

13. +1

And then some

[appalachiablue]

34. Amen. It took 50 years to get this way, so it will be a long, hard ordeal to change course.

Rapid decline and suffocating status quo can't continue. We absolutely have to fight for the change that must come.

[Stargleamer]

12. a few things. . .

they can accomplish a little by Executive Orders. But the Republicans will block any progressive legislation, and will probably threaten government shutdowns, so not much hope as far as needed changes go.

Also a Democratic Candidate can force a Kennedy and Scalia to remain on the bench for up to another 8 years, and allow Ruth Ginsberg to retire. This is a good thing.

The plutocrats control this country and the only way to break their hold is 61 Democratic Senate votes, and not DINO's like Ben Nelson.

[Eric J in MN]

15. They both can. We got national gay-marriage because

...a Democrat made the last two Supreme Court nominations instead of a Republican.

If a Democrat makes that next two Supreme Court nominations we'll make other progress.

[jwirr]

19. Even if they cannot make big changes they still can use the

veto pen and the executive power. I believe Bernie would use those two options more than Hillary because she is more right than he is.

Hillary is more likely to use triangulation (make trades) with the Rs than he is. This kind of action will push us further right again.

[darkangel218]

20. Sorry guys.

Nothing will change. We are just peons.

Get back to me in a year. Or even 6 months.

Too late in the the rich/oligarchic game for us to make a difference!!!

Bookmark it.

[darkangel218]

21. And BTW, did you see how Bernie never confronted Hillary face to face??

It's a sick game, neverending oligarchy.

I hope I will be wrong.

[NorthCarolina]

23. Well the way I see it, ONE candidate gives us at least a CHANCE

to change things, while the other candidate (any other candidate really) will give us exactly zero, zip, nadda, zilch chance. I'll go with the better of those two options every opportunity I get.

[darkangel218]

24. And why isn't our candidate standing up for us??? Why is he giving Hilary the card Blanche???

Enough is enough! He needs to say in debates, not days later!!!!

[NorthCarolina]

25. I've watched as many of his rally's as I could

and I can tell you it has been many of them. He never fails to inspire me, or give me hope for a better tomorrow. He's successful because he touches our humanity in a way that very few politicians can, or will. If you have followed him as I have, and still believe that he is not standing up for us somehow, then I don't know what to tell you because quite frankly I see the complete opposite. As for Hillary, she is already an afternote in the real world that exists outside the corporate media hype bubble.

[darkangel218]

26. I feel the same, but he needs to stop making up excuses for her!!!

He needs to say it then and there!!

Because if he doesn't, the Repubs surely are going to!!!!

[NorthCarolina]

32. I don't know.

I'm not so knowledgeable about what he should or shouldn't do campaign wise. He's done pretty good so far, so I trust him to know how to navigate these waters. I can envision how the media might use any negative talk to attempt to sour enthusiasm over his campaign. Other than that, I trust that he knows what he's doing. He has my support as well as the support of almost everyone in our family.

[Vinca]

27. It depends on all of the other elections going on and whether Democrats get an advantage

by the popularity of the presidential candidate and his or her coattails. My biggest fear - which I probably elaborate on way too many times - is that the lack of excitement around Hillary will result in a midterm-type election. And you know how well Democrats do in those. Neither Bernie or Hillary as POTUS will amount to much without Democratic majorities in the House, Senate and State Houses and State Legislatures. It's a steep hill.

[Mike Nelson]

28. They won't change much, but...

...there will be changes if a Republican becomes President.

[darkangel218]

29. True. However

Shouldn't we fight the oligarchy , if nothing, just in name????

[Mike Nelson]

31. Yes, of course.

It could change, albeit slowly.

[Matariki]

30. Getting someone effective in the DNC would be a start

Getting progressive members of congress elected. Paying attention to elections down the ticket, the way conservatives have been for years.

[Proserpina]

33. The proof is in the effort

[jeepers]

35. Bernie can, I don't think Hillary will

Should the republican congress come out against the duly elected president the way that Mitch McConnell did to Obama in 08, or should the democrats decide that Sanders is not a true enough democrat but is a socialist and not deserving of their full support, President Sanders, a populist, has in my view both the opportunity and the responsibility to go to his populist base and using his army of supporters employ the tools historically won by the early American progressive movement to change state government and to thereby effect national change.

At the beginning of the twentieth century throughout the midwest small independent farmers were being gauged by the railroad industry as they tried to get their goods to market. Feeling that neither the state nor the federal government were being responsive to their complaints, farmers groups, the Grange for one, acted to get initiative referendums whereby citizen groups through petition could bring their issue to the ballot and as citizens without input or obstruction from the state legislature could write and vote laws into effect. This is also known as direct democracy and functions entirely without interference from the oligarchy

What this boils down to is that should representative government fail its primary responsibility to govern according to the will of the people, should it find some gain in its dysfunction, the people have the right and the responsibility to govern themselves. A democrat or a republican because of their Establishment ties will not go the people but I believe that a populist
must and that is especially true if and when the two traditional parties feel they have our populist hog tied

What is missing in the individual efforts of the separate states as it stands now is any national strategy or coordination to effect national change.

Colorado enacted the first 40 hour work week in 1911 as well as the first pension for widows and orphans. We passed woman's suffrage in 1893 and raised the minimum wage from $5.15 an hour to $6.85 in 2006. We of course have legalized marijuana for both medicinal and recreational purposes and business is booming. We enacted a traditional marriage amendment in 2006 and then again with citizen referendum repealed that same act two years later. This is the voice of the people, not the oligarchs. Gay marriage was legalized by the supreme court recently but it was the threat of citizen inititiaves that caused conservatives to pass state laws to deny gay marriage which were challenged in court and found unconstitutional. Presently Colorado has a ballot initiative that calls for single payer( I signed that petition on the night of Bernie's first debate. Were this a national effort we Bernistas might have 26 states, countless cities and counties calling for single payer nation wide. We could use initiative campaigns against paperless voting as well as gerrymandering, or call for state agencies to bargain with drug companies. We can raise the minimum wages set environmental standards and food safety standards. The movement needs to advocate for recall and review on the federal level. As a banking or oil exec would you pay a politician 1 million dollars for a favorable decision if that decision was subject to citizen review or if you the candidate were subject to recall would you risk it all.

Part of the populist movement in the mid 1840's was to change the constitution to elect federal senators as opposed to them being appointed by state legislatures as the 1789 constitution mandated. That movement continued until 1913 with congress refusing to act. When finally nearly enough states through referendums called for a constitutional convention but before enough states did call, congress quickly amended the federal constitution to put to elect federal senators an end to the voter uprising..

To conclude, should the establishment decide to sabotage Bernie's administration they are playing a dangerous game. Short of heading to a more authoritarian system the only other way to go and especially for a true a populist is a direct democracy and if Bernie goes down that road and teaches us how it works he will be a truly great leader, president or not.

[NYCButterfinger]

36. Bernie cannot change anything. Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell will not put Wall Street reform on the

floor.

[Doctor_J]

37. no idea. But I know Hillary won't try

That's enough for me. Look at their respective platforms. How is there even a choice??

[darkangel218]

38. I hear you and I agree with you.

Hopefully things will change in the Senate, and we can get at least some things done.

[TCJ70]

39. I don't trust Hillary to call them (congress) out...

...like I thing Bernie would do. Each and every time they act not in the best interest of actual people, I fully expect him to get on TV and explain why they aren't acting in the best interest of America as a whole.

[joshcryer]

41. The US is run administratively.

Sanders would appoint much more progressive administrators than Clinton (whether those appointments get through is a coin toss but I know he is practical and can do it). Clinton would appoint the run of the meal bureaucrat.

Whatever the case may be they would both be appointing non-Republicans, with Sanders' appointments having a far bigger reach, and taking administrative rule to the edge (Bush's judges should be retiring soon too, so we should be looking at more administrative rulings in favor of the government).

So things would change on that basis alone (particularly SCOTUS appointments). Naturally, in the end, you're looking at the need for Congress to get anything big done.

[Sunlei]

43. Neither of them is as versed in Constitutional law like O & I don't think Rs care who is President

Hoping O releases some huge mandates before he leaves office. Let Pandora out of the box and it will be impossible for RW to react fast enough (using our Govs slow legal system) to close the box.

I don't think Rs care who is President, they can block any elected D. Americans just don't vote enough to make a difference.