My biggest problem with Sanders is that he promises a lot of free stuff, paid by other people
Last edited Mon Dec 28, 2015, 10:01 PM - Edit history (1)
I absolutely hate politicians who do that.
(1) Look at how ACA was passed. All the benefits were promised upfront but all the costs were hidden. Why do you think the Cadillac tax keeps getting delayed? Because really nobody (not even the unions) want to pay for other peope's health care.
(2) Look at how all the state pension and health care plans are so under-funded. Politicians like to promise benefits but shaft the costs onto someone else ("the next guy" or "the next generation".
This is not integrity. This is buying votes.
Until Sanders gives a full accounting of who is paying for all the things he is promising, I will always keep questioning his policies.
Look at how in the second debate he couldn't even say what the highest marginal tax would rise to!
When reality meets the road, not even Vermont wanted to pay for single payer!
that Obama was just promising to give people (and you know what kind of people he meant) "free stuff"? Sounds like a pretty GOP-ish complaint to me. God forbid we should have a government that actually helps people.
both used that exact phrase from this OP, "free stuff", and both were talking about black voters, though Jeb was more explicit about it.
accusing the Democrats of "buying" voters by offering "free stuff" to them.
It makes me want to become a hermit. (Somebody recently described Donald Trump as the comments section made flesh. Sounds about right.)
Let's see, now. From all evidence to date, the poster is 100% for Mrs. C, often posting her campaign's memes of the day while they're still hot from the printer. Today's meme has been to attack Bernie for appealing to a subset of potentially moveable Trump voters from the left., by pretending that he's pursuing the racist crazies that Trump attracts.
Put that together with this attack from the right, which seems custom tailored to appeal to establishment Republicans.
What it looks like to me is that team H is worried about Bernie's populist appeal to those potential Trump supporters who are protesting the raw deal they've gotten in this rigged economy. So they're floating this attack from the right as an opening play for establishment Republican voters.
I don't see it working at this point, but it might appeal to the Romney types.
Just my opinion.
Why did the unions push so hard to get the cadillac tax delayed?
Because that's also exactly how they feel about taxes
pass any of the stuff he is promissing.
It's what the candidate wants to have happen and is evidence of their basic philosophy. I'm sure Sanders understands that Congress will not agree to everything he wants. But what I'm also sure he knows is that you always start out negotiations asking for more than you expect to get. You don't limit yourself by asking only for what you think the other side will let you have. That way you get even less.
But at least he tried, and he got a lot of what he wanted.
our help to pressure those who want to keep the same old same old. If we want what he proposes we need to tell congress so in no uncertain terms. Political Revolution remember.
Ya know, the ones who drive Cadillacs?
The bizarro-world republispeak, even among those who proclaim themselves to be progressive-socialists, is just...
In the immortal words of Mitt Romney: "There are 47 percent who are with (Obama), who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it." Those people? The ones who are buying steak and lobster with their food stamps?
I'm really grossed out to see an opinion like the OP on DU.
sites. The rabbit hole is deep.
...is that we would pay for it like every other country which already has all of these common benefits. It's really not a radical idea.
So we have no way of knowing what your actually saying.
I somewhat get what you're saying, but man, say it a little better. End-of-line.
she will never be president, you're working for the Republicans. If she gets the nomination the republicans get the oval office.
American people, the Republicans aren't running a Socialist like Ike this year (ht Sanders
he was a good liberal and you shouldn't insult him this way.
the soles of Stevenson's shoes. But she'll go down in a similar blaze of glory. Hopefully only once in 2016 and not a second time in 2020.
Are you a Democrat? You sound very rightwing - borderline rightwing extremist.
"Free stuff 'paid for by other people' to buy votes" - I don't believe you would be happy with Hillary or any other Democrat for that matter. That's simply no how any of us Democrats think. Even most centrist/conservative dems would see your words as far right talking points.
Sen. Sanders is not proposing anything that is not established orthodoxy in most western democracies. You didn't know that?
The much higher taxes on the middle class that would be required?
Which is why I'm happy with her policies.
They are sensible and affordable.
They only cover subsections of the population. That smacks of class divisions and deciding who is worthy of being raised up.
Bernie is inclusive, Hillary is divisive.
"Free stuff" (e.g., child care, education, medical care) is one of the reasons the Scandinavian countries are considered by their citizens to be the happiest in the world. Yes, their taxes are higher, so the free stuff isn't really free. But since these countries are democracies, presumably their citizens prefer to pay for these things through taxes, a far more efficient means than overpaying insurance companies and for-profit schools as we do here, enriching the 1% to our detriment.
Ask the American people which is also a democracy whether they would like to pay for these things through higher taxes?
That's the part I think Sanders is not being upfront with.
But those people would be the wealthy, not the middle class. As it is now, wealthy people pay a lesser percentage of their income in taxes (that's all taxes, including federal, state, local and FICA) than everybody else. I recall Warren Buffet said his secretary paid more taxes (as a percentage of income) than he did. People in this country have been so brainwashed into thinking that everything should be privatized and all government programs (and therefore taxes) are bad - even though, for example, Medicare is actually more efficient than private insurance - that it's hard to get that message across. It doesn't help that some people who call themselves Democrats are singing from the same hymnbook as the GOPers.
You know, the stuff the rest of us are paying for through loss of decent jobs, exorbitant health care expenses, exorbitant college tuition prices, grossly overpriced housing, lack of safety net for unemployed, disabled, elderly who require assisted living, their caregivers, environmental degradation . . .
because you don't want to have to share your wealth? Well, I have news for you, I am tired of having to pay your share and mine when I donate to the homeless and a myriad of other causes because I can't turn my back on them.
Time for you and all the other wealthy individuals to pay your fair share.
Please remember that it is only by the approval of the masses that you have any wealth. It can be taken away at any time. I suggest you willingly help out before that happens.
Even if we move in the direction of what they were in the 1950s and 60s..it would be an improvement. I will grant you one thing, I dislike the phrase "free" college education. We need to emphasize that we as a society will pay for it..by progressive taxation. Using the word "free" only gives ammo to the tea baggers so they can go on their "giving away free stuff" rants.
Bernie and Trump have much in common. Both will be tied up by their unenforceable promises.
I'm not a Sanders supporter by any stretch of the imagination, but that's just pure Republican, "welfare queen", 44% horsecrap.
Was this your own creation, or did you copy and paste it from freeperville?
Heck. Here ya go:
Never mind I already know. The system is geared toward getting nearly free labor and the people who provide that labor pay more in taxes and fees as a percent of their income than middle incomes and up. And at the same time the working poor are being hosed they are derided as being lazy and wanting free stuff. You know things like food and shelter that have gotten so outrageously expensive it takes 2-3 incomes per family just to barely make enough to live on.
Food for 3-4 600-800
Bus Pass 90
This is just a very basic very not itemized list of expenses for a family of 3 or 4 people. And it's about rock bottom as far as expenses go. Most 2 bedroom apartments are more than $800 a month. Food can exceed $600 easily when families are strapped for time because of the 3 job situation and one adult is taking the bus nearly everywhere. I have the car expenses low because the family most likely has a beater that is barely holding on, but they don't have a car payment and they have very low cost insurance and don't drive far to work, this number can easily be a lot more if a family opts to buy a more reliable car and has payments plus drives farther to work. The clothing budget is also very low, because the family goes to the thrift store for most of their clothes. But, those clothes wear out faster so it's more trips to buy more clothes.
These are the families that are paying for all the free stuff that the middle class up to the very rich enjoy because the very rich are definitely not paying fair wages or their share in taxes and they benefit from the cheap labor. The middle class has more time to enjoy the free stuff that poor people pay for like parks and things like that.
Those people wanting "free stuff" how dare they
Sounds like Conservative mantra:
Its almost as if the ghost William F Buckley has made its way to the HRC supporters
Hillary Rodham Clinton unloaded on Jeb Bush on Monday, calling it deeply insulting that he had suggested that Democratic presidential candidates had tried to appeal to black voters by offering free stuff.
It appears that Hillary disagrees with you.
Something is very wrong here. Are some Hillary supporters rec'ing anything that smears Sanders? Even though it is right wing trash?
"paid by other peoples" ? "free stuff" ?
I rather pay higher in taxes so that the future generation doesn't not have worry about student debt
I rather pay higher taxes so that people do not have to pay astronomical premiums to Insurance companies that only care about the bottom line.
the free stuff taxpayers currently are providing to corporations or free stuff to the people who are paying taxes?
As long as it's Bernie.
But the more I read it seems like they actually support these right-wing positions, and aren't merely using them to try and attack Bernie Sanders.
I'll bet if Hillary Clinton is the nominee this same line of attack will be used on her.
Unions won good health insurance with low out-of-pocket.
Rightwingers think that the problem with healthcare is that ordinary people don't pay enough, and therefore make too many doctor appointments.
The Cadillac Tax is to tax out-of-existence insurance with low out-of-pocket. Then unions lose what they won for their members, and ordinary people can't see their doctors as often.
The Cadillac Tax was invented by Jonathan Gruber. Gruber wrote an op-ed about Obamacare without revealing that he was a paid consultant for designing Obamacare. He tried to deceive the American people into thinking that he was writing about Obamacare as a neutral commentator.
The Cadillac tax is to eventually drive all employer-based insurance to the exchanges since their limits are not indexed to health care inflation.
But my point still remains. People don't want to pay for other people's health insurance. Look at what happened in Vermont as well.
derp derp derp derp
By the way, there's a word for "people paying for other peoples' health care". Know what that word is?