Ban me from DU if you must, but I won't be voting for Clinton. I'm voting for Sanders or I'm voting

[Attorney in Texas]

for the straight-party Democratic ticket because this election is too important to abstain from voting against every Republican on the ballot.

[zappaman]

1. Walt Starr? Is that you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2507034

[seabeyond]

4. ....

[darkangel218]

9. People who reply in the thread

To begin with.

[seabeyond]

13. No, not really.

[darkangel218]

19. Oh yes, really.

[seabeyond]

25. Thank you so much Dark, dismissing my voice to insist you know better. Brilliant.

[darkangel218]

32. You asked "who the f cares"

I think it's obvious you do.

[Number23]

57. + a million to your post #2, sea

I've been in GDP for three minutes and have already seen two hysterical, frothing posts from people hollering about how they won't vote for Clinton or how she's just like a Repub and they can never support her. And to both posts, my first thought was "who the eff cares?"

Reality seems to be slapping some people around a bit today.

[840high]

104. I care.

[Squinch]

10. Seriously.

[seabeyond]

16. They hang a big ole banner around their neck saying they are more important than so many other lives

Who cares about people so self absorbed in themselves that they are willing to risk other peoples lives. We deal with a world of this, and still, the people that care come out on the top. So....

They are truly irrelevant, I have concluded.

[Squinch]

22. It seems impossible to me that they are thinking that far. What I feel like I am watching is

people behaving like the child whose mother says, "Don't step in that puddle!" and the child just has to put his toe in the puddle to see how much he can get away with.

This OP isn't even saying anything. Is he or isn't he voting for Hillary? Can't possibly tell by his words. But what he makes very clear is that for him, this is some kind of dramatic last stand.

Oy vey. The histrionics.

[seabeyond]

27. "Oy vey. The histrionics." This. And truly. Who cares, Lol. Nt.

[Squinch]

30. But more importantly:

Happy Holidays to you and yours!

[seabeyond]

38. AAAAaaahhh, And you and yours. Life is good Squinch.

We get to start bringing in the New year. !!!

[brush]

71. Yeah, he/she says they're voting a straight Dem ticket but how do you do that without . . .

voting for Clinton?

Like you, I still don't know who he/she is voting for after the "declaration" of her/his position.

[Hortensis]

114. Right. OP's saying will vote "straight Democratic ticket."

My language comprehension's just fine too. And I have no problem with that. Me too, OP. Unfortunately, although I long ago reasonably often crossed the ballot to retain good people, there are no longer any good conservatives in office in most areas. Moderate conservatives have been branded RINOs and replaced with hard-core conservatives.

We are now in a battle not merely of "liberal" versus "conservative" orientations but for the soul of America. And I vote against fascism, against theocracy, and against a nation of working classes serving a plutocrat class. I vote for a nation of the people, by the people, and for the people.

[CoffeeCat]

102. This is a political messageboard

on the internets. And posting on a messageboards is entertainment.

I really don't get it when people are shocked that Internet posts aren't on par with a peer-reviewed journal.

It's the equivalent of a bunch of yahoos in a crowded bar doing shots of off each other, beer bongs and singing Bohemian Rhapsody"--and suddenly Diane Chambers bursts through the door and yells, "Please stop this madness!"

[Squinch]

106. It IS a political message board.

Are you saying that there is something "Diane Chambers-ish" about giving an opinion about an OP?

[CoffeeCat]

116. Yes, I've run across a few posts...

that wrist-slap people for silly or outrageous behavior. And yes, those posts reminds me of Diane Chambers.

The faux indignation is what makes the Chambers comparison so perfect.

The medium is a raucous, informal form of entertainment for people who like politics. Not a High Tea at Kensington.

[Squinch]

117. This is a little obtuse.

You said it in response to my post. Were you comparing my comment to Diane Chambers?

[brooklynite]

3. Thump your chest in self-righteous anger some more if you want too...

You're okay as long as you don't encourage other people to not vote for the nominee.

[seabeyond]

6. Who the fuck cares if lives are lost, there are more important things to this OP'er, whatever it is.

These people have become irrelevant.

[Hiraeth]

52. No. You got had, sea. Sorry you can't reply.

[Katashi_itto]

68. Lol

[Logical]

76. You whine a lot! LOL. nt

[still_one]

82. You are right. Folks who profess being progressive, and don't vote for the Democratic nominee in

the general election, obviously do not care about the Supreme Court.

Interestingly enough it appears at least here that the vast majority who refuse to vote for the Democratic nominee in the general election, if it isn't THEIR candidate, seems only to be expressed by SOME supporters of one specific candidate.

That attitude is not the most mature thought pattern.

Of course the OP said they would vote for a straight Democratic ticket, in the general election, so it doesn't apply to the OP

[DrDan]

92. absolutely correct - the "gonna take my ball and go home" crowd is not

displaying maturity toward this election.

It is explicitly stating that trump, cruz, rubio are on a par with Clinton.

and yep, it works both ways.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. I won't be voting for Clinton either, but I will vote for the other Dems on the ballot.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

[Betty Karlson]

111. That Adams quote is a jewel. Thanks for reminding us of that truth. eom

[MeNMyVolt]

7. Ban you? Can barely understand you.

Your second sentence was gibberish. Care to restate counselor?

[Renew Deal]

8. You know that 'voting straight Democratic" starts at the top. In 2016, that's president.

So it seems like you are saying two different things or don't know what a "straight Democratic" vote is.

[Attorney in Texas]

34. Either you vote in each race for your favorite candidate or you pull the straight party lever.

I usually vote in each race for my favorite candidate, but I may have to pull the Democratic lever this time if Sanders is not on the general election ballot because I wouldn't feel enough enthusiasm to vote in each individual race.

[Renew Deal]

36. It's different in every state

We don't have a straight party lever in NY. We don't even have levers anymore.

But from what I'm reading, you'll vote for Hillary via the "straight party lever." I'm not sure what the banable offense is yet.

[Tipperary]

50. I confess to complete confusion with this op also.

It makes no sense to me.

[Agschmid]

64. It's seems to be saying "I will vote for Clinton"

... Kinda tough to understand you are correct.

[MeNMyVolt]

49. Oh, so this "ban me" crap is just shit stirring.

Got it.

[OilemFirchen]

11. Who are you?

[seabeyond]

18. Ya. Nt.

[Gore1FL]

98. Apparently a good democrat that will vote a straight ticket.

Who knew that would create such outrage?

[philosslayer]

107. Cause I really wanna know

[TeddyR]

12. I confess to being confused by your post

When you say you are voting straight party ticket that means you will cast your vote for Hillary if she is the nominee, correct?

[brooklynite]

15. I translated it as...

..."I'm voting straight ticket IF Bernie Sanders is the nominee; otherwise, I'm voting for Sanders as a write-in"

[Attorney in Texas]

20. Either my vote will be for the straight-party Democratic ballot or I will take real joy in voting

for Sanders and each other candidate individually.

In either event, my vote from dog catcher to president and every office in between will be counted in the Democratic column even if there are some candidates I'd prefer not to vote for individually.

[TeddyR]

31. Thanks

Sounds good to me.

[Renew Deal]

39. Why should we care?

[99Forever]

112. And Hillarians don't get why so many....

...refuse to consuder EVER voting for Clinton.

Perhaps a little self-reflection is in order.

[awake]

14. Why not vote for the "gay" Democratic as well

[Juicy_Bellows]

17. What I believe the OP means is Hillary is DINO so they are going straight D

meaning no vote for Hillary - it seems 3 people have already acted or are genuinely confused by this.

[Android3.14]

21. Can you keep your dignity while holding your nose?

I sure hope so.

[Gothmog]

23. The Texas GOP almost got rid of straight ticket voting in Texas last session

Glen Maxey and the Texas Democratic Party had to work hard to preserve this feature. Michigan is in the process of eliminating straight ticket voting.

[Thinkingabout]

56. Exactly, they did this after Obama was on the ticket and so many republicans in other offices

lost. Come on Texas, we need to get Democrats elected at every level, an important mission of DU. United we stand divided we fail.

[Gothmog]

61. Texas will turn blue eventually

We are working hard on this and Trump being the nominee may accelerate the process

[Thinkingabout]

65. It has been in the past and I am hoping for sanity to return.

[mcar]

67. Thank you Gothmog

Working here to turn Florida blue.

[sufrommich]

24. .........

[rjsquirrel]

43. ^^This

Who cares who you vote for?

In my view no one changes their mind FOR a candidate from histrionics like this and other dramatic self-declarations of intentional purity. Yay for you.

However people can change their minds AGAINST a candidate when his or her supporters seem intent on making sure it's their guy/gal or nothing.

I started this year a total Bernie supporter. I planned to vote for him in my primary as a protest but expected Clinton to win and planned to support her in the general if so. I even changed my registration from Ind to Dem so I could do so (and only because Hillary will easily win my state anyway).


Watching the mania of Bernie supporters on here and elsewhere has made me rethink that plan. They think they're helping their candidate but their stridency about Clinton as an "oligarch" for the one percent and especially the sexism of their advocacy has driven me, the father of a daughter, into voting for HRC in the primary, and no I won't be be holding my nose, I'll be hoping we win and stop the facist right.

So congrats Bernistas. You had one and you lost him by overstating your case and making it an ideological purity test and babbling about "revolutions" that can't possibly happen and wishing the rich had no power.

When was the last time we voted for a revolution? The only reason Bernie polls better is because the right hadn't started the kind of assault on him they've leveled at Clinton for 20+ years. You live in a bubble if you think otherwise.

I'm well off, white, and highly educated. I know people who work in investment banking too, even though I was at Zucotti Park for days. I've donated money to Sanders for congress and senate for years.

And I'm thinking it's gotta be Hillary this time. I want to win. We can't afford to be all or nothing purists.

She's far from perfect. So was Obama. This country is not going democratic socialist anytime soon.

[CorporatistNation]

66. Bernie Beats ALL Republicans By Greater Margins Than HillBill!

It IS the history and baggage that should bring pause to the advocates for HillBill... The AMMO whether 20 years old or brand new is packed with dry powder and fresh primers. ANY Republican is going to have a proverbial "Field Day" taking her apart on the dais and in the media. Just the Truth which is sometimes difficult for people with Cognitive Dissonance to take heed of. Sure you're not afraid to pay a little more in TAXES under Bernie? Hmmm?

[one_voice]

84. WTF is this HillBill shit? She's her own person...

how's about Berjane? How's that work for you? Her fucking name is Hillary. Or HRC, Or H, Or Clinton. Or H. Clinton.

But it is in no way HillBill. No part of her name is goddamn BILL.

[KingCharlemagne]

86. strong Sanders supporter here, but on this I agree

with you 100% and think your exasperation fully appropriate. No way would Sanders or his campaign countenance this tripe.

[one_voice]

87. Thank you for that...

I wasn't angry as a Hillary supporter (I like O'Malley) but as a woman. It made me angry as a woman to see that.

I probably could have made the point without using Bernie to do, because truthfully it doesn't have the same impact.

[rjsquirrel]

89. Lol polls

National general election head to head polling match ups mean nothing at this stage. Nothing.

Bernie has never run a national election. The right has yet to soften him up. And we don't know the nominee on the other side. You are arguing from spurious evidence.

[Live and Learn]

91. That is right, polls only count when Hillary wins them. nt

[creeksneakers2]

101. The real clear politics averages

are only for both candidates in three races. But in those three, Hillary and Bernie do about equally well.

So there is nothing but conjecture now about who would do better in the general. After everything that's been thrown at Hillary I expect that most people have made their minds up. She's running about even, but is below 50%. The GOP candidates are below 50% too. So it will fall to how that last 10% in the middle go.

Bernie is a bigger question. There are still people out there who haven't even heard of Bernie, and he hasn't faced the GOP mega-smear yet. Perhaps people will like him better. Perhaps less.

I don't know how anybody can say with any confidence which candidate would do better in the general.

[sabrina 1]

97. The only one who can beat the Repubs in the GE is Bernie. So anyone who wants to win IS

supporting the one who CAN win. Think of the SC! Though actually Congress is more important when it comes to that. We've watched Dems for decades, vote for horrible SC nominees when they should have held out and forced more reasonable choices.

However, Bernie will choose great SC justices, but he, like any president, will need a supportive Congress. Unlike Dems, Repubs won't give in.


Polls now showing Hillary will be defeated by both Carson AND Trump in the GE should either of them win.

I'm going to make sure that doesn't happen by supporting the one who is already beating them in the polls.

[redstateblues]

103. Not true. Polls show Hillary thumping Trump

Beanies socialist baggage would sink him in the GE. Polls show a majority of Americans would NOT vote for a Socialist

[NCTraveler]

26. You don't have to vote for Clinton.

Just as you don't have to promote that here. No reason for banning. Just no need to talk about that one aspect. No different than before your grand proclamation here.

Edit: Your post went over my head. I just got up to speed. Lol. Leaving my original post as I feel it was respectful and a possible suggestion to others.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

28. Results are in!

On Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:23 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Ban me from DU if you must, but I won't be voting for Clinton. I'm voting for Sanders or I'm voting
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251957783

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

I just can't stand when a DUers says "ban me". It is an honor to be on Democratic Underground. Why so easily willing to lose the honor? Jury do what you feel is best.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:31 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The post is more unclear than anything else, so leaving it up is punishment enough.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: More crybaby Hillary supporters.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: So you got a belly ache and decided that something you "can't stand" needs to be alerted on? Needs to grab the attention of six Jury members? Now here is a clue: Shame on you for abusing the system. And no, I will not vote to hide based on your personal bias, however much it may compliment DU!
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think this is a trick post and the poster will probably get banned for being too clever. 'Cuz, if he's voting straight Democratic ticket, he means he will be voting for Hillary if she's in the primary.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I completely agree!

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Attorney in Texas]

41. Thanks for posting the results.

[backscatter712]

29. Some would say that they only vote for Democrats...

...and they question whether Hillary actually qualifies as a Democrat when it comes to her voting record, her positions on the issues, and how beholden she is to corporations, Wall Street, and the military-industrial complex.

I mean, it only took Hillary until 2013 to come out in favor of marriage equality. Is she more loyal to Democratic values? or is she more loyal to Doug Coe and the Family?

Perhaps it would be good to answer questions like that. There's a lot of people sick of voting for DINOs.

[Historic NY]

33. Is this the start of a long goodby.........

March is coming quick.

[stevil]

35. KTHANXBAI

.

[DinahMoeHum]

37. Trashed.

n/t

[joshcryer]

40. Just start advocating for this...

You'll be gone in no time...

[Attorney in Texas]

53. Of course I'm advocating that everyone either vote for Sanders in the general election or vote the

straight Democratic ticket.

[ucrdem]

42. You're thinking of the GE in November. Your primary is March 1.

and unless Texas has an open primary you can't vote a straight Dem ticket because you're choosing between Dems. Anyway you need to register by Feb. 1 to vote in March. More:

http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/voter/2016-important-election-dates.shtml

[Attorney in Texas]

45. There is no such thing as a straight party vote in the primary.

[ucrdem]

48. Yes that's what I just pointed out.

[dlwickham]

44. if you're voting straight ticket

then you'll be voting for Hillary in the general election

[Attorney in Texas]

47. Maybe so, but I hope it won't come to that.

[hack89]

46. I love DU performance art. Nt

[Hiraeth]

51. me too. I rate this one about an eight and the reactions to it even higher. popcorn!

[virtualobserver]

54. Reflex reactions rather than careful reading will always get you into trouble

[Hiraeth]

63. Always amazed by whom around here can NOT read for comprehension. Did not realize it was such

a RARE skill.

[msanthrope]

108. Yeah, but this OP is no door buzzard. nt

[Godhumor]

55. Well, good. At least you see the bigger picture

And while I hope you will have to pull the straight ticket lever, just know I'll vote for Bernie if my candidate loses, too.

[emulatorloo]

58. Sorry, you aren't going to be banned from DU

for saying this.

[Attorney in Texas]

59. Funny how many people will take arms against a thread advocating voting a straight party Democratic

ticket. Sort of a real-life IQ test.

[emulatorloo]

70. Finely crafted OP

Tensions are so high right now, I think there many cases of Reacting-before-Reading.

[rbrnmw]

60. hahaha

[Gloria]

62. LOL, why would you be banned??

Hell, Sanders people have chased away most HRC supporters with their hysterical crap...

[DrDan]

93. it is not unlike the war on Christmas

[Bill USA]

69. it's amazing how often Sanders "supporters" use the same rhetoric of the GOP.. claiming

anybody they disagree with engages in the very practices they use relentlessly. I had several comments hidden by Bernie "supporters" that were ridiculous hides. To assert that they were in violation of any standards of this site was nonsense.

the reason I put the word supporters (Sanders "supporters&quot in quotes, above, is because I so often see Sanders "supporters" using the same rhetoric as is used relentlessly by RWers. I have decided that many of those Sanders 'supporters' are actually GOPers 'for' Sanders - engaging in 'fifth column' work here on DU. I just can't imagine Democrats behaving that way. Democrats can disagree on issues or candidates but they don't believe in silencing those who dont' agree with them.

You have accused people who are for Clinton as guilty of having anyone who is not a Clinton supporter banned. This is typical RW style rhetoric and just as legitimate as any other RW propaganda. Democrats can disagree on many issues but they don't believe in silencing those who disagree with them - even nut-job RWers. That's a Right Wingers way of engaging in 'debate' of the issues or merits of candidates.

[nc4bo]

72. You win

The Miss Cleo Award for claiming to know the hearts and minds of DU's Sanders supporters.

[Bill USA]

96. "Dems can disagree .... but they don't believe in silencing those who don't agree with them"- do you

... mean I was wrong to say true Bernie supporters, being Democrats, would not silence or ban people for not agreeing with their choice of candidate? ... You are saying I am wrong to think that about actual Democratic Party Bernie supporters????

All the rest of my comment was about GOPers who are pretending to be Bernie supporters and using that artifice to attack Clinton --- and hoping this will .....

1) cause doubts in some minds about Clinton - since (ostensibly) it is Democrats making the same criticisms of Clinton that the GOP throws out - regardless of the lack of substance to any of the innuendos or insinuations.

2) create mutual animosity and hopefully, dissension and division, among Democrats by making Clinton supporters angry at (supposed) Bernie supporters for engaging in the same McCarthyist campaign tactics that the GOP are using .... and hopefully (from the GOPers perspective) causing some Clinton supporters to make harsh and perhaps untoward statements about Sanders - or more likely - about pseudo Sanders supporters (i.e. GOPers "for" Bernie) for using inflammatory rhetoric and making unfounded charges. Such responses from HRC supporters will likely cause some true Bernie supporters (i.e. Democratic Party Bernie supporters) to get angry with Clinton supporters and thus, a bar-room brawl ensues. Just what the GOP would like to see.

IT seems to me TRUE Bernie Sanders supporters could find positive things to say about Sanders which make their point that Sanders is the guy to support. It further seems to me that a rather large proportion of the comments supporting Sanders are just attacks on Clinton parroting the same McCarthyist rhetoric the GOP uses against Clinton.

I just don't like the tactics of McCarthyism - insinuation and innuendo. I think Democrats, including Bernie Sanders, find that sort of thing repulsive and indefensible.

[Beacool]

75. This....

[ronnykmarshall]

77. That's nice honey

[gordyfl]

78. I Will Not "Take the Pledge"

I think it's nonsense that people keep asking the same question over and over, again.

"Will you vote for Hillary in the General Election?" Who cares about the General Election? We haven't even held one Primary, yet.

A lot could happen between now and then. I mean "a lot".

It would make no sense for me to be forced into "taking a pledge" like the Republicans did in their debate.

If you want me "to swear" I'll vote for Hillary, then wait until she wins the nomination - if she wins.

People keep talking as if Trump has already won the nomination. That's also nonsense.

Let's get a grip here.

[Live and Learn]

79. LOL Well played. nt

[JonLeibowitz]

105. This entire thread is pure win. I can't stop laughing. Brilliantly done. n/t

[pnwmom]

80. Except you can't vote a straight party ticket without voting for Clinton. n/t

[still_one]

83. I think that is the point. It is a "gotcha" OP

[Paulie]

81. I tried too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251942700

[Gore1FL]

85. Apparently no one reads past the title or applies logic. I honestly don't know.

Whatever the cause, I'm LOLing at the unbalanced outrage of those who haven't quite pieced together what you posted.

Great work Attorney in Texas! I salute you!

Go Bernie and Dem Ballot!

[Live and Learn]

90. I found it kind of sad. It was so clear and yet... nt

[AwakeAtLast]

95. So glad I'm not the only one

Quite illuminating, yes?

[Sheepshank]

88. The chest thumping and posturing is absolutely hilarious. nt

[Vinca]

94. That's a good idea to vote a straight Democratic ticket.

I think, in my entire decades long voting history, I've only voted Republican twice. Once for an acquaintance who was running for sheriff and would do a good job and once in the NH primary. When Gore ran in 2000, he was a sure thing in New Hampshire so I voted for McCain against Bush to make some mischief. (It worked - McCain won the primary and then Bush went on to smear his black daughter in the South Carolina primary. Scum bag.)

[Bluenorthwest]

99. Amazing how few people can read what this says.

I'll do the same, only I say I'll vote for Bernie or against the Republican.

[Attorney in Texas]

100. Why waste the time reading the OP when you can jump straight to the altert button?

[Sunlei]

109. Vote for whoever in the primary.Tx. is one of 10 states still has straight-party for the National.

I'm undecided for the primary, far as donations go- I only donate to Senator Sanders because he needs the money so America can hear what he has to say. finally.

[Lans]

110. Jill Stein

is who I'm voting for if Bernie doesn't get the nomination I voted for her in 2012 and Obama 2008. Not really that interested in the other options democrats have put forward.

[Attorney in Texas]

113. Don't make any firm decisions until you see all the choices. I think Jill Stein looks great and I'll

give her a second look if Sanders is not the nominee, but I'm predicting that the Republican nominee will be a totally unreasonable choice that we must oppose with full force.

If my presidential choices were Republicans like Lisa Murkowski or Susan Collins versus a Democrat like Joe Manchin versus Jill Stein, I'm not sure who I'd vote for (but Stein is looking pretty good among those options and if my vote for Stein put Murkowski or Collins in office instead of Manchin, I could live with that). But those will not be my choices.

If my presidential choices were Republicans like Lisa Murkowski or Susan Collins versus a Democrat like Hillary Clinton versus Jill Stein, I'm still not sure who I'd vote for (Stein is closer to my views than Clinton, but Clinton is much closer to my views than Murkowski or Collins, but I'm still not worried for America and our heritage if somehow Murkowski or Collins were elected). But -- again -- those will not be my choices.

If my presidential choices are Republicans like Ted Cruz or Donald trump versus a Democrat like Hillary Clinton versus Jill Stein, I'm pretty sure I'll vote for my best chance at avoiding a Cruz/Trump presidency, and that might necessitate a straight-party Democratic vote (I'm worried for America and our heritage if there is a Trump or -- worse yet -- Cruz presidency). I hope those are not my choices. I hope to vote for Sanders in the primary and again in the general election and again on re-election, but if my general election vote is more a vote against Cruz or Trump or Rubio than support for the Democratic nominee, then so be it.

[Lans]

115. I just don't think it would be close at all

Either Hillary or Bernie would beat out anyone in the GOP by a wide margin if there is more than 50% voter turnout.
If I felt it would be close I'd vote for Hillary

[stevenleser]

118. Good thing Texas isn't being counted on by any Democrat to get to 270 electoral votes

So your threat is a pretty empty one.