NY Times article on the infighting within Sanders campaign

[hill2016]

Generally a tell of a losing campaign.

Even the campaign thinks debates "aren't his strength" and isn't that keen on more debates

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/12/29/top-bernie-sanders-aide-rankles-those-in-and-out-of-campaign/

[brooklynite]

1. Waiting for the obligatory "The Times is part of the MSM/in the tank for Clinton" post

[tecelote]

3. This is the best you can throw at him?

Hillary is a veteran when it comes to scandals.

This is just trash. It won't dissuade anyone from voting for the person who has consistently fought for their best interests.

[brooklynite]

5. I entirely agree...

...unfortunately, that amounts to about 30%; you're still going to need to find a way to lift Sanders' ceiling.

[CorporatistNation]

39. The Polls Are ALL BS and Cannot By Definition Be Random Given The Structural Change in Means of

Telephone communications... Who uses what type, who will answer the phone as well as the demographics associated with these variables. No coefficient fudge facor can correct for these disparities that ensure that these polls are for all practical purposes irrelevant.

The Polls Are MEANINGLESS from a prediction standpoint. However, what the polls do seek to accomplish is to set expectations so that when the "FIX" with the Electronic Voting Machines comes in... The contrived result will already have been "predicted."

[reACTIONary]

48. Malarky....

..... just because people have more than one way of communicating doesn't mean you can't gather a representative random sample.

[brooklynite]

52. Let's review the ignorance...

Iowa is an open Caucus; there are no voting machines, electronic or otherwise. There are also n ballot, paper or otherwise.

The conspiracy theorists(And I use that term decidedly-I've spoken to candidates and Party officials, and nobody believes we lose elections because of rigged voting machines) tell us we lost the 2004 Presidential election because of voting machine riggin; am I to understand that you believe the Republicans have handed control of the voting machines to the DNC?

[reddread]

96. no stolen elections in our history

I wish those conspiracy theorists would just cut it out.

[brooklynite]

101. None that I'm aware of

[reddread]

105. three dollar bill

[RandySF]

26. No one called this a scandal

Just a great big sign that reads "Amatuer Hour" at Club Bernie.

[floriduck]

8. There is a faction in Bernie's

Campaign that wants him to go for Hill's throat, down in the mud. But Bernie won't ever do that. Friction is healthy. It shows independent thinking rather than robotics.

[Hiraeth]

30. I don't doubt that one bit. A lot of people want to go for her jugular. Not just a small

amount of his campaign staff. I can't imagine any campaign not having disagreements on strategy/agenda.

[raindaddy]

47. Damn right a little friction is healthy.. Used to be a major trait of the Dem party....

and thing got worked out.

That was before the tendency to be rigid and calculating became the norm...

[Voice for Peace]

88. And a tendency to be afraid of not conforming

to the will of the Powerful

[Bluenorthwest]

10. And instead you get what, you've never seen politics before? Let's do a quick review!

Then:
The Front-Runner’s Fall
Hillary Clinton’s campaign was undone by a clash of personalities more toxic than anyone imagined. E-mails and memos—published here for the first time—reveal the backstabbing and conflicting strategies that produced an epic meltdown.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/09/the-front-runner-s-fall/306944/

Now:
The Hillary 2016 campaign infighting begins even before the Hillary 2016 campaign begins
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2014/11/14/what-the-mook-mafia-e-mails-really-tell-us-about-hillary-clintons-presidential-bid/


It's not that the media is in any tank it's that it is a broken record repeating the same material year after year with minor adjustments to suit the day. Today it's Bernie, and that's fun for you. But when the material is cyclical, everybody's next.

[rhett o rick]

15. Interesting how the Clinton fans used to disparage the Corp-Media and now have switched

to embracing it because the Corp-Media along with all things corp back HRC the billionaires choice.

[KingCharlemagne]

44. Well, the Times did pimp the self-same war she sold out the Iraqi

people for.

What's a million innocent Iraqi lives when Hillary's presidential ambitions are on the line?

[Depaysement]

50. I know you didn't mean this but this post reads like a throwaway line to me

Except it's true. She didn't support or oppose the war on policy grounds. She supported the war because she didn't think she could be elected President without supporting it. Purely a political calculation.

[KingCharlemagne]

55. I knew after 30 minutes of research and reading that Bush's claims of

WMD and ties to AQ were total bullshit. While none of us can peer into the innermost recesses of her heart, we can say definitively that she should have known better.

Her AUMF vote disqualifies her from any elective office.

[pangaia]

60. You were faster than I was.

I took me 32 minutes!!

[Nonhlanhla]

54. She "whored" herself out?

Really? That's the language you want to you use?

Then please don't complain next time when someone suggests that some Bernie supporters are sexist.

[KingCharlemagne]

58. Hillbots clearly have problems with the metaphoric use

of language. But persist in your shrill dudgeon.

[pangaia]

61. I am as strong a Bernie supporter as you will find, but I agree.

Not well-phrased.

[KingCharlemagne]

63. oh, all right. Does 'sold out' pass muster? - nt

[pangaia]

64. Sure.

:&gt )

[KingCharlemagne]

66. Done. Thanks for the nudge. - nt

[pangaia]

69. Wow, You did change it.

That was... I don't know.. 'nice?'

I also figure, why stick a stick in a hornets nest, something like that.

[Nonhlanhla]

75. So I'm shrill?

Thanks for changing the wording I originally complained about - although you did it only after a other poster agreed with me. I don't appreciate the suggestion that I am shrill. That is terminology often used against women when they complain about sexism.

Once again, don't complain when someone says that some Bernie supporters are sexist.

And no, no problem with metaphoric language. Just with metaphors rooted in the denigration of women.

[Sheepshank]

86. It is along the same lines that Bernie uses and then claims it was not mysoginistic.

Should be called out...glad you spoke up.

[arcane1]

2. Why no quotes? n/t

[nc4bo]

4. LOL - I wouldn't be surprised if BOTH campaigns

Weren't running around like their hair was on fire at this stage of the game.

It's primary season, situation normal, all fucked up.

[NCTraveler]

16. This.

Primaries are really close and they are all go. The last two weeks have been the only big dust ups since Seattle. Amazingly polite primary to this point. Getting a little discheveled now.

[Hiraeth]

31. yep SNAFU all over the place.

[Juicy_Bellows]

6. From the link:

“I asked Senator Sanders” to do more, said Mr. O’Malley. “Senator Sanders didn’t want to do more debates either. He kind of liked where it is.”

Aides to Mr. Sanders said they couldn’t speak to Mr. O’Malley’s assertion, although Mr. Briggs said the team would “welcome more debates” that included Mrs. Clinton as well.

EDIT - emphasis is mine.

[hill2016]

7. And why won't

He debate with MOM alone?

[Juicy_Bellows]

9. Just my opinion but why risk DNC repurcussions and debate without her?

Sanders doesn't really need to debate against O'Malley at this time, there would be no upside to it.

[hill2016]

18. And that

Is the exact reason why Clinton won't call for more debates

She doesn't really need to debate against Sanders at this point, there would be no upside to it (for her).

[Juicy_Bellows]

22. I agree with that.

Thank you for your honesty.

[pnwmom]

73. There is "no upside" to Sanders debating O'Malley. And what is the upside for Hillary

to go beyond the 6 debates?

Actually, I'd be happy to see her debate more times, because it's free good publicity. But she doesn't need them at this point.

[Luminous Animal]

21. Because then the DNC may ban him from debating Hillary.

[CorporatistNation]

40. MOM Need sto Man Up and Drop Out! For AMERICA!

[passiveporcupine]

45. Why waste time and energy on a debate that does not include the frontrunner?

You really are trying too hard to get some Bernie supporter a hide.

[Uponthegears]

51. Isn't

the better question, "Why wouldn't MOM demand Hillary be present?"

[Autumn]

76. Why should he debate O'Malley alone? O'Malley is irrelevant.

[frylock]

78. Why do you care?

[Baitball Blogger]

11. Sounds like a point that someone is trying to astroturf.

[winter is coming]

12. +1. n/t

[sufrommich]

13. It's a poorly run campaign. Amateurish and belligerent.

[rhett o rick]

17. Really? Sen Sanders went from relitive unknown to millions of supporters in a relatively

short time. Over 2 million individuals have donated and thousands come out when he speaks. He is scaring the hell out of the Oligarchy that has unlimited resources to Swiftboat him. Sadly some so-called Democrats are choosing to side with the Oligarchy in lieu of the 99%. I guess they worship wealth.

[oasis]

32. "So-called Democrats" run the Party. So-called socialists should be happy

to get a free ticket to ride.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

35. You'll miss us next year.

[oasis]

38. Honestly now, what percentage of (non DU) Bernie supporters

would stay home on Election Day to allow a Trump presidency?

[Uponthegears]

59. Won't be Trump

But, yes, folks like me who saw the demand for ideological purity hand Florida to GWB will vote, and possibly work, for Hillary. HOWEVER, there are millions of new voters who have been moved to action who will stay home on election day if Hillary's machine keeps personally attacking a man they admire instead of talking issues. I am not sure I am the only kind of Democrat voter Hillary needs, particularly if the GOP gets its act together and puts its own transformational candidate on the ticket.

[oasis]

80. Hillary will get her share of the dyed-in-the-wool ultra lefties.

They're not so much under the spell of Bernie that they would reject half a loaf.

[Uponthegears]

90. Five words

Ralph Nader George Walker Bush

[reddread]

97. are they running again?

Shit maybe I should watch the news.

[Uponthegears]

102. Cute

But Hillary is ten times less popular among progressives than Al Gore was on the worst day of his life and his supporters were a hundred times less arrogant. He still spurred a rebellion on the left and that rebellion put one of the worst and most destructive presidents in the history of this nation in the White House. Old folks like me will vote for Hillary, but there are millions of new voters who are more loyal to Bernie and liberal values than the voters who abandoned Gore for Nader lo these many years ago. Hillary may well get the nomination but her supporters' bs could end up putting Satan himself in the White House.

[reddread]

103. four ugly words

Joe Biden Clarence Thomas. Without which there would never have been a GWB 911 or IWR

[rhett o rick]

36. What you mean is that Conservative Democrats run the leadership of the Party and

real Democrats recognize the need for social programs. Sen Sanders is more of a Democrat than HRC will ever be.

[oasis]

37. Opinions vary on who or what is a "real Democrat".

I'll agree that here the DU realm, the tendency is more to the left. But that's not what is going to take to win the GE. That's why the Party chooses Hillary to be the standard bearer.

I like Bernie, but his Democratic Party credentials don't measure up to Hillary's, so can stop making that claim.

[rhett o rick]

84. She turned her back on the Democratic Party in 2002 and chose to side with the Republicons.

She chose to either believe Bush or went along knowing he was wrong, either way she proved she is not a Democrat.

[oasis]

87. Millions of Democrats believe she's Democrat enough for them.

That's what will count in the year 2016. Her overall accomplishments far outweigh her past missteps.

[rhett o rick]

91. Millions love Trump also and that's who we will get if she wins the nomination.

No accomplishments can outweigh the betrayal that lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children.

Do you think that she believed Bush that Iraq had WMD? or She knew they didn't but liked the idea of "spreading democracy" (I think that is what imperialism is called now) in the Middle East, or she knew she was voting to give Bush authority to invade but thought he would use good judgement? Doesn't matter to a lot of Democrats that we need to win the presidency.

[oasis]

94. Millions voted for her in 2008 with full knowledge of her

IWR decision. Since 2008, Hillary's become an international icon as Secretary of State and garnered numerous Woman of the Year honors.

In 2016, even more women and people of color will refuse to dwell in the past and join ranks to send her to the highest office. Why? Because there are more important issues facing them.

[frylock]

79. Hey you're welcome for the fucking votes.

No more free tickets.

[libdem4life]

14. Oh my, you mean that everyone in a campaign doesn't agree? Heaven forfend.

Shocked, I tell you. And this is all they have? An over-zealous PR guy that everyone is not in love with? That's why he has the job, so silly.

And yes, investigate the DNC...that's what this is about...fending off their idiocy and the little scandals that are buried deep within the tight little group with DWS and HRH.

I'm on Team Sanders and Weaver.

[ucrdem]

19. Sometimes the best defense really isn't an offense.

But I suppose we'll know how it played in Dubuque in a few weeks.

Bill Clinton has privately told friends he was astonished by the Sanders’ team’s handling of the data breach, and that it risked depicting the Vermont senator as a typical politician and not the political outsider he is seen to be.

[Luminous Animal]

49. That is so cute. Bill was concern trolling.

[Deny and Shred]

62. My stars ... Bill is worried that Bernie is a typical politician

Allow me to clutch my pearls and faint onto my couch.

I shall rest assured that the Clintons are so very far above typical politicians.

I'm sure every single Hillary staffer was on board with the Obama dog whistling in 2008.

[Ned_Devine]

72. That's rich, isn't it?

[rhett o rick]

20. Thanks for posting. There is no doubt in my mind who the NYTimes supports. But why

Democrats would support the wealthy 1%, other than pure wealth worship.

[Eric J in MN]

23. The writer couldn't come up with enough examples

...of Sanders campaign in-fighting to fill the article.

So she mixed in criticism of the Sanders campaign from the Clinton campaign and O'Malley campaign to have enough words for the article.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

34. NY Times is a desperate newspaper

It can't find much to say

[Oilwellian]

95. Propagandizing is hard work! n/t

[arcane1]

46. And the poster couldn't quote a single word from the article.

Almost as if it was never meant to be read, but spread as a false narrative instead.

[MBS]

24. Tad Devine probably isn't helping.

He sure wasn't an asset to either the Gore or Kerry presidential campaigns.

[rbrnmw]

29. or Dukakis

Devine is the one who put him in the tank ad

[MBS]

89. OK, that is the ultimate example of incompetence.

I hadn't known that he'd been involved in the Dukakis campaign, too.

[enid602]

25. Weaver

Well, at least Bern's campaign manager can look forward to resuming his promising carreer in the booming comic book store industry. Looks as if both he and Bern have a real flair for picking winners.

[hootinholler]

27. What fucking infighting?

Zero evidence in your article. Your behavior in the way you present this article is, shall we say, suboptimal?

[Omaha Steve]

42. Everything is rosie and unicorns in other campaigns

4 pages: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/29/AR2008072902451.html?sub=AR

After a dramatic failure at the helm of Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential campaign, and five months after Clinton sacked her via e-mail, she moved back to the comfort of her home town to work for Barack Obama.


Chicago native Patti Solis Doyle will be chief of staff to whoever becomes Barack Obama's running mate. (By Charles Rex Arbogast -- Associated Press)

[FloridaBlues]

28. Really interesting after the massive amount of hair pulling from sanders supporters

Let's face facts he's not the best at debates so having less for him is a goog thing

[stupidicus]

33. a bunch of unquoted nonsense

for the gullible, and a bad commentary on the state of modern "liberal" journalism

[hopemountain]

41. a former politco writer and rupert murdoch puppet:

maggie haberman.

[dorkzilla]

43. Is this the reason Clinton is astro-turfing? Clearly a “tell of a losing campaign"

Why don’t we let VOTERS decide who is losing?

If HRC & Co were soooooooo confident, why are they doing shit like this???

THE POPULAR AND influential Blue Hampshire blog on progressive New Hampshire politics recently busted a group of campaign staffers for registering anonymously on site and boosting pro-Hillary Clinton diaries on the group blog.Sockpuppet

http://www.wired.com/2007/12/clinton-staff-a/

[Hekate]

53. If his campaign thinks "debates aren't his strength," then why the conspiracy theory here...

...about the paucity of Democratic debates? I thought it was all an evil plot hatched over cocktails by HRC and DWS in the Turd-Way Secret Hideout?

Things that make you go hmmmm.

Oh, and the NYT is in no sense a "liberal" newspaper.

[Uncle Joe]

56. The last paragraph in this article is telling of the effectiveness of Weaver combined with the facts

surrounding the Schultz DNC's handling of this incident and track record of obvious favoritism to Hillary.


I also liked this paragraph.

“Jeff is a Marine,” said Michael Briggs, the spokesman for Mr. Sanders, when asked about Mr. Weaver’s tone. “You wouldn’t want to be in a foxhole with anybody else.” Mr. Weaver declined to be interviewed.

(snip)

For now, the Clinton team is still surprised to find itself playing defense over the data breach. Days after the breach, a bemused Clinton campaign chairman, John Podesta, told NBC’s “Meet the Press” about Mr. Sanders, “I think he’s got a problem in his campaign with the culture of that campaign and I think that was shown in this incident. And I think that we are the victims of this, not the Sanders campaign.”

Thanks for the thread, hill.

[JonLeibowitz]

83. Sure sounds like Weaver is running the incompetent campaign here. Wait a second....!

[pangaia]

57. The entire article is a crock.

Some guy(s) creating something imaginary about the Sanders campaign, a bunch of paragraphs with no substance whatsoever.

next...

[KingCharlemagne]

68. +Infinity! - nt

[Dawson Leery]

65. k/r

[ish of the hammer]

67. "Bill Clinton has privately told friends he was astonished"

I'm astonished that B. Clinton is thinks anybody believes him. The Clintons would love to paint Sanders as a common politician using dirty tricks, but it's more the Clinton's style and it's not working!

[concreteblue]

70. Wow. Just wow.

I wont alert on this, although it is right up against the line as far as i can tell. Your headline is not the headline of the article and bears little resemblence to the content. The article itself struggles woth trying to make this a bigger deal than it is.the desperation is dripping off every Shrillary post these days.

[Logical]

71. LOL, Hillary fans are classy. nt

[Cha]

74. Jim Weaver is a loose canon..

The blowback outside the campaign was fierce. But there was also blowback within the Sanders campaign as well, as some aides said the language crossed a line. Mr. Sanders said on MSNBC that the comment “was inappropriate,” although it is not clear whether he suggested that Mr. Weaver apologize.

However, others in the campaign did. The Sanders campaign’s New Hampshire state director, Julia Barnes, asked Mr. Weaver to apologize for the comments, and voiced her displeasure to him in clear terms. He never did, telling unhappy staffers on a conference call after the report aired that their team needed to be mindful that the Clinton campaign was about to unleash attacks on Mr. Sanders, according to three people with direct knowledge of the episode.

[reddread]

98. more like a tight fugue

Sounds great but funereal. Poor Hillary has to rely on the support of her worst critics from 2008. What a world what a world!

[Jarqui]

77. The feel of the article doesn't add up

It spins one thing:

These people described Mr. Sanders’ team as decidedly less emphatic in private discussions about having more primary debates than they have been in public, realizing that debates are not his strength.

No quote from "these people" to back that assertion up.

Then :

Mr. Briggs denied that claim. .... Mr. Briggs said the team would “welcome more debates” that included Mrs. Clinton as well.

O'Malley whined but ignored the consequences of debating without Hilary = no more debates with Hillary.

Of course the Sanders campaign would like more debates with Hillary as most second place candidates would. It's a chance to get their message out and a chance for Hillary to make a mistake. The rest is pure nonsense in comparison.

[Eric J in MN]

81. Strange attribution in that article.

A source is described as "people briefed on the flap about the number of debates."

Are those DNC staffers? Clinton staffers? O'Malley staffers?

Sometimes journalists need to conceal names, but this level of concealment makes the article garbage.

[cherokeeprogressive]

82. This post augered in...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=auger+in

[R B Garr]

85. All you have to do is watch Weaver on TV to see

that this article accurately describes what we could see with our own eyes. The guy is really hostile, to put it mildly.

Reading through some of the outraged comments here, it's obvious that they didn't watch him on TV. He's very unprofessional. I can't even imagine having to tiptoe around him.

[Nedsdag]

92. So you are gloating over this?

There's nothing worse than a sore winner.

How sad.

[thesquanderer]

93. Jeff Weaver, from Victory Comics...

...he's comic book guy!

[reddread]

99. that is awesome

But the comic book guy runs a shop in fresno called wonderland.

[thesquanderer]

106. In case anyone missed the reference form the linked Times article...

Mr. Weaver, who worked for Mr. Sanders in Congress for years and has the candidate’s trust, took a break from a store in Virginia, Victory Comics, to return to the candidate’s fold (his cell phone voicemail still identifies him as with the comic-book store.)

[Cha]

104. KICK!

[Gothmog]

107. This type of infighting is never a good sign