This Is Our One Chance For Redemption... And You're Gonna Vote For Hillary ???

[WillyT]

Dear History, It wasn't me.

[peacebird]

1. Not me. I will be voting for Bernie!

[riversedge]

2. Who needs to be redeemed?

[WillyT]

15. Redemption...

[Motown_Johnny]

77. Here is a partial list:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-love/who-voted-to-authorize-fo_b_85652.html

^snip^



Which U.S. Senators voted for the resolution that authorized the use of force in Iraq? 29 Democratic US Senators, and all but one (R-RI, Chafee) Republican. The full roll call on H.J.Res. 114, 107th Congress, A joint resolution to authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq, is here. The vote count was YEAs 77, NAYs 23.

Below is a list of the Democrat Senators who vote YEA. I wish everyone voted NAY, but note that, in additional to Hillary, a number of very good people voted YEA at the time. Obama did not vote on the resolution, because he was a member of the Illinois State Senate, rather than the U.S. Senate, at the time. Congressman Jim McGovern, a leading critic of the Iraq war, recently discussed Obama's 2004 comments on the Iraq war in this Huffington Post blog, which includes this 2004 Obama quote "I'm not privy to Senate intelligence reports. What would I have done? I don't know." I think that was an honest answer.


Here are the Democratic Senators who voted YEA on October 2002.

Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Breaux (D-LA), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Yea
Carnahan (D-MO), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Cleland (D-GA), Yea
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Daschle (D-SD), Yea
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Edwards (D-NC), Yea
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Harkin (D-IA), Yea
Hollings (D-SC), Yea
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Landrieu (D-LA), Yea
Lieberman (D-CT), Yea
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Miller (D-GA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Torricelli (D-NJ), Yea

[Thinkingabout]

3. Hillary is the most qualified candidate running, she is not

Promising redemption nor is she selling herself as a redeemer.

[yeoman6987]

4. +1,000,000

[Empowerer]

30. Thank you!

[riversedge]

33. spot on.

[Yallow]

39. Qualified To Help Bush Invade Iraq

Bernie said no.

Hillary said yes.

Does not compute.

[Thinkingabout]

67. Hillary did not invade Iraq any more than Sanders did.

[paleotn]

78. She voted, YES ....

on the resolution. She and those who voted yes are culpable for a trillion dollar, no telling how many life screwup.

[Thinkingabout]

84. No, that goes to Bush, why are so many willing to give the

Republicans a pass on this. This would be like blaming Sanders for all of the gun deaths because Sanders voted against the Brady Bill.

[beam me up scottie]

85. Who's giving the Republicans a pass? You're the one absolving people of their involvement.

Hillary didn't just vote for the Iraq war, she promoted it by spreading Bush's lies.

Bernie voted against it and tried to warn congress what would happen:

[Thinkingabout]

89. Got it, now Sanders has gone against gun cintrol for the NRA,

Sanders can be held responsible for gun violence deaths in the US.

[beam me up scottie]

90. Not a chance, he voted for background checks and bans on assault weapons.

Nice red herring though, I understand why you want to change the subject instead of admitting you were wrong.

She owned up to her involvement, you should as well.

[Thinkingabout]

96. I did not change the story to the IWR vote, yes Sanders voted

Five times against the Brady Bill, if Hillary is held responsible for Bush invading Iraq then the gun violence is on Sanders.

[beam me up scottie]

97. No it's not since he voted for gun control. And the Brady bill passed, remember?

Just like the IWR that Hillary supported.

[Thinkingabout]

99. I know the bill passed without his help, it is possible there would have been more deaths.

[beam me up scottie]

100. So no one died because of those votes, unlike the dead soldiers and Iraqi civilians.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Thinkingabout]

101. Not true, people died from gun violence after the bill was introduced and

There needed to be stronger bills passed, people are still dying from gun violence.

[beam me up scottie]

102. But Bernie's votes had nothing to do with that since the bill passed.

You're not an it-getter, are you?

[Thinkingabout]

103. There yoi have your answer, Hillary's vote had nothing to do with Bush

Invading Iraq.

[beam me up scottie]

104. Yes it did, the bill passed. And she also convinced others to vote for it:

[Thinkingabout]

105. This was passing a resolution of which the WND inspections was to be completed

And all avenues exhausted before attacking, it was Bush's decision to remove the inspectors before the inspection was completed and Bush made the decision to invade Iraq and did not follow the IWR and at this point it did not matter if there was ever a IWR bill. Ergo, the AUMF 2001 would have allowed Bush to invade Iraq in Bush's terms.

[beam me up scottie]

107. She endorsed the invasion:

There is a very easy way to prevent anyone from being put into harm's way, and that is for Saddam Hussein to disarm, and I have absolutely no belief that he will. I have to say that this is something I have followed for more than a decade.

For now nearly 20 years, the principal reason why women and children in Iraq have suffered, is because of Saddam's leadership.

The very difficult question for all of us, is how does one bring about the disarmament of someone with such a proven track record of a commitment, if not an obsession, with weapons of mass destruction.

I ended up voting for the Resolution after carefully reviewing the information and intelligence I had available, talking with people whose opinions I trusted, trying to discount political or other factors that I didn't believe should be in any way a part of this decision, and it is unfortunate that we are at the point of a potential military action to enforce the resolution. That is not my preference, it would be far preferable if we had legitimate cooperation from Saddam Hussein, and a willingness on his part to disarm, and to account for his chemical and biological storehouses.

With respect to whose responsibility it is to disarm Saddam Hussein, I do not believe that given the attitudes of many people in the world community today that there would be a willingness to take on very difficult problems were it not for United States leadership.

Stop trying to defend that vote, you can't hold only the Republicans who voted for it responsible.

[Thinkingabout]

108. Sanders endorses guns.

[beam me up scottie]

110. Is that your default setting? Whenever you're losing you just make shit up?

What does that even mean?

Sanders voted against the pro-gun-control Brady Bill, writing that he believes states, not the federal government, can handle waiting periods for handguns. In 1994, he voted yes on an assault weapons ban. He has voted to ban some lawsuits against gun manufacturers and for the Manchin-Toomey legislation expanding federal background checks.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm

Alternet: Bernie's Gun Control Critics Are Wrong—His Stance Has Been Consistent for Decades

Next, the 1990 debate turned to gun control. The moderator, who clearly was a Second Amendment absolutist, went after Bernie—to test his mettle after Smith’s about-face.

“Do you support additional restrictions on firearms? Do you support additional restrictive firearms legislation?” he asked. “Bernie Sanders, explain yourself, yes or no?”

“Yes,” he replied. “Two years ago, I went before the Vermont Sportsman’s Federation and was asked exactly the same question. It was a controversial question. I know how they felt on the issue. And that was before the DiConcini Bill. That was before a lot of discussion about the Brady Bill. That was before New Jersey and California passed bills limiting assault weapons.

“I went before the sportsmen of Vermont and said that I have concerns about certain types of assault weapons that have nothing to do with hunting. I believe in hunting. I will not support any legislation that limits the rights of Vermonters or any other hunters to practice what they have enjoyed for decades. I do have concerns about certain types of assault weapons.”

That was not the end of his remarks. But it is worth noting that his separating the rights of traditional hunters from the concerns of police chiefs has been a constant thread in many subsequent votes he would take in Congress. It’s also noteworthy that Bernie consistently has opposed assault weapons from the late 1980s—before he was in Congress—which he reiterated to the moderator.

“I said that before the election,” he continued. “The Vermont sportspeople, as is their right, made their endorsement. The endorsed Peter Smith. They endorsed Paul Poirier. I lost that election by about three-and-one-half percentage points, a very close election. Was my failure to get that endorsement pivotal? It might have been. We don’t know. Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn’t. All I can say is I told the sportspeople of Vermont what I believe before the election and I am going to say it again.

“I do believe we need to ban certain types of assault weapons. I have taked to police chiefs. I have talked to the police officers out on the street. I have read some of the literature all over this country. Police chiefs, police officers are concerned about the types of weapons which are ending up in the hands of drug dealers and other criminals and our police oficers are getting outgunned.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernies-gun-control-critics-are-wrong-his-stance-has-been-consistent-decades

Sanders Votes for Background Checks, Assault Weapons Ban

WASHINGTON, April 17 – Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today voted for expanded background checks on gun buyers and for a ban on assault weapons but the Senate rejected those central planks of legislation inspired by the shootings of 20 first-grade students and six teachers in Newtown, Conn.

“Nobody believes that gun control by itself is going to end the horrors we have seen in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., Blacksburg, Va., Tucson, Ariz. and other American communities,” Sanders said. “There is a growing consensus, however, in Vermont and across America that we have got to do as much as we can to end the cold-blooded, mass murders of innocent people. I believe very strongly that we also have got to address the mental health crisis in our country and make certain that help is available for people who may be a danger to themselves and others,” Sanders added.

The amendment on expanded background checks needed 60 votes to pass but only 54 senators voted for it. “To my mind it makes common sense to keep these weapons out of the hands of people with criminal records or mental health histories,” Sanders said.

Under current federal law, background checks are not performed for tens of thousands of sales – up to 40 percent of all gun transfers – at gun shows or over the Internet. The amendment would have required background checks for all gun sales in commercial settings regardless of whether the seller is a licensed dealer. The compromise proposal would have exempted sales between “family, friends, and neighbors.”

In a separate roll call, the Senate rejected a proposal to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. That proposal was defeated by a vote of 60 to 40.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban

He even voted for the 1994 crime bill because it included the Violence against Women Act and assault weapons ban:

In 1994, however, Sanders voted in favor of the final version of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, a bill that expanded the federal death penalty. Sanders had voted for an amendment to the bill that would have replaced all federal death sentences with life in prison. Even though the amendment failed, Sanders still voted for the larger crime bill.

A spokesman for Sanders said he voted for the bill "because it included the Violence Against Women Act and the ban on certain assault weapons."

Sanders reiterated his opposition to capital punishment in 2015. "I just don’t think the state itself, whether it’s the state government or federal government, should be in the business of killing people," he said on a radio show.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/02/viral-image/where-do-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-stand-/

[Thinkingabout]

111. So now you resort to attacking me personally, huummm.

[beam me up scottie]

113. You make no sense. How does one "endorse guns"?

Is that what Hillary did when she bragged about hunting and pandered to gun owners in 2008?

[Thinkingabout]

114. Bye I discontinue conversations when personal attacks start.

[beam me up scottie]

115. Nice excuse, there was no personal attack. You've just run out of talking points.

[sabrina 1]

129. Are you SERIOUS? I and many other Dems will never forget that night. The night Dems had a chance to

stop Cheney/Bush from telling the country that their criminal war was BI-PARTISAN. I remember, naive as I was back then watching the votes coming in. Fully expecting it would be a REPUBLICAN disaster. I heard Sen Byrd's speech and was convinced he spoke for ALL DEMS that night.

Then Hillary stood up and I just knew SHE would vote against it!

BOOM! What? I thought I was imagining what I was hearing.

And the rest of the sell-out Dems tried to explain why THEY were aiding and abetting one of the most lying, yes WE knew they were lying, adminstrations in living memory, and shattered the trust and faith of Dems in their own party that awful night.

Yes, she is responsible. Without 'partisan' support, they would not have been able to do what they did.

I guess they thought we would forget. Which only goes to show how out of touch they are with the people.

She then went on to show us that it wasn't a 'mistake' at all when she pushed for the next horrific disaster in Libya.

Please, you are talking to people who are not, as apparently the leadership of our party thinks, without the ability to see what is glaringly obvious.

That vote lost her the last election, and it will lose her this one too among a few other things.

[WillyT]

130. + 1,000,000,000 - What You Said !!!

[mythology]

124. So by that logic, it would stand that given Clinton's vote wasn't a deciding vote

then she isn't responsible either. If the actual vote itself doesn't matter, only the result, then it is logical that Clinton's vote also doesn't matter since the authorization would have passed even if she voted no.

If on the other hand you hold that the votes matter as a reflection of judgement, you can't let either of of the hook because it is the vote itself that matters most.

[SusanaMontana41]

132. "You're not an it-getter, are you?"

Fucking hysterical!

[Doctor_J]

58. by that logic you must have voted for McCain in 2008

[Thinkingabout]

98. Since you brought up the vote on McCain you must have supported him,

I vote Democrat, have been on my first presidential election and will continue.

[Doctor_J]

106. err...what?

Even if this post had been made in English, it wouldn't make sense. You claimed, with no support, that Mrs Clinton is "the most qualified candidate". A look at her policy positions shows that she is far closer to Ben Carson than Bernie Sanders in ideology. So when you say "qualified", you must mean "experienced at conservative politics". By that logic you should have voted for McCain instead of Obama in 2008.

If on the other hand you claim to always vote democratic, why would you support the one that's practically a republican on so many issues?

[Thinkingabout]

131. Republican issues like gun issues, no, i am not supporting a

Candidate which votes with Republican in CFMA and ILA.

[Beacool]

92. Hear, hear!!!

[okasha]

112. if she were, I would not be supporting her.

I will be voting for a President, not a Messiah.

[Fawke Em]

116. She's not qualified.

I'm tired of hearing that.

People who make as many mistakes with their first decisions on major issues as she has are not qualified to lead. Sorry.

[Thinkingabout]

117. You will probably continue to hear this because it is true.

If you don't make mistakes then you are not doing anything.

[Fawke Em]

118. I will because it's a meme her campaign made up.

Doesn't mean it's true because it's not.

I wouldn't hire her for anything given her mistake record.

P.S. I know more about the real Middle East than she does. She's destroyed it.

[Thinkingabout]

119. It isn't made up by her campaign, she is the most qualified candidate

Running and I will vote for her based on this fact. Other candidates do not have her experience and capabilities.

[uponit7771]

125. +1

[Buzz Clik]

5. Redemption? Is that what we are seeking?

[WillyT]

8. Yeah... For The Thousands We've Killed And Maimed For Profit, Is A Good Start...

This is not your father's Democratic Party.

[Buzz Clik]

10. Is that HRC in the cockpit?

[WillyT]

12. What's The Difference ??? - "I Was Just Following Orders."

[senz]

13. Odds are she okayed the sale of that weapon

in return for a generous donation to the Clinton Foundation.

http://www.ibtimes.com/clinton-foundation-donors-got-weapons-deals-hillary-clintons-state-department-1934187

[MADem]

53. That's an Israeli aircraft over Gaza.

Not sure what the poster was thinking, there.

I'll say no more.

[paleotn]

79. Same bullshit...

different perp.

[MADem]

83. No. It's a BLATANT visual misrepresentation. A real, Porgie-style "Fool Me Once"

roll-out.

The intent was to play that off as an American fighter aircraft bombing some poor Muslim community in the Middle East somewhere, to point out what awful people we are, or something.

It's all ABOUT "the perp" in the context of this conversation.

[paleotn]

95. And how many innocent local people have died....

....in wars of empire and "nation building" in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan, supported by none other than HRC? But of course, they're just brown people who go to a different church than you do, so why should you give a shit?

[riversedge]

11. And Bernie the newly annointed priest will absolve us of our sins??

[senz]

14. You probably wouldn't understand this, but

we liberals tend to feel guilty for what our country has done to the rest of the world.

[leftofcool]

20. Then you should absolutely vote for your candidate based on guilt.

We Democrats will vote based on qualifications.

[JDPriestly]

52. Hillaryy. What committees has she sat on in Congress?

Hillary is less experienced and less qualified for the presidency..

About 8 years at most in Congress compared to Berniee's tenure in office pretty much continuously since sround 1980.

Hillaty really does not have much experience A T A L L compared to Bernie.

She is well known because of her husband and not based on her own achievements.

She has only won two elections.

Bernie has won many.

Hillaryisreally not well qualified at all.

[MADem]

59. Good grief--you should probably look shit up before you write denigrating posts like that....

That way, you'll avoid the appearance of one who is woefully uninformed. No experience, you say? Compared to Bernie? It's going to be a long road before he ever sees the door to the SASC committee room.

Clinton served on five Senate committees with nine subcommittee assignments:
Committee on the Budget (2001-2003)[1]
Committee on Armed Services (2003-2009)[2]

Subcommittee on Airland
Subcommittee on Emerging Threats and Capabilities
Subcommittee on Readiness and Management Support

Committee on Environment and Public Works (2001-2009)[1]

Subcommittee on Clean Air and Nuclear Safety
Subcommittee on Fisheries, Wildlife, and Water[3]
Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure (2007-2008)[4]
Subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health (Chairwoman, 2007-2009)

Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (2001-2009)[1]

Subcommittee on Children and Families
Subcommittee on Employment and Workplace Safety

Special Committee on Aging.[5]
She was also a Commissioner of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe[6] (2001-2009).[7]

She also held two leadership positions in the Senate Democratic Caucus:

Chairwoman of Steering and Outreach Committee (2003–2006)[8][9]
Vice Chairwoman of Committee Outreach (2007–2009)[10]

SASC and Budget were crown jewels, but none of those gigs were piker jobs. She hit the ground running and was a leadership player early on.

[KingCharlemagne]

23. Sociopaths generally feel neither guilt nor empathy - nt

[riversedge]

34. Well, since I am a proud Progressive, I do understand. But Bernie and his laying on

hands is not my picture of redemption.

[senz]

36. Ah. Language problem...

look up the term "redemption."

[riversedge]

40. Look it up yourself if you want to know. bye

[Katashi_itto]

74. See #23

[pnwmom]

38. The rest of the world likes Hillary and has respected the work

she did as SOS and at the U.N.

She's probably more popular in the rest of the world than she is here.

[JDPriestly]

55. Have you actually talked to anyone from another country about this?

Our friends from overseas all like Bernie best. Especially our friiends in Europe.

[840high]

62. Not so. Go read

comments on the overseas press.

[pangaia]

65. The rest of the world KNOWS Hillary Clinton's name.

[PyaarRevolution]

122. Huh?

So all the Scandinavian countries are rooting for Hillary?! News to me.

Somehow I also think that in Spain Bernie is quite popular considering the success of Podemas. What about Greece given Syriza's success? Yes I know they caved but that's what happens when you pander to those who want to push Austerity measures when a country is suffering(hint Puerto Rico hint) and the rich are the one's that made it worse and are trying to currently make it worse(hint Puerto Rico again hint).
Where else? Oh yeah, Jeremy Corbin's election in the UK. Occupy might have inspired the Arab Spring but that has ricocheted back here after hitting Europe and the Middle East. People want real reform and they're willing to vote at the ballot box for it. If Hillary does gets the nom. she will have to address many problems that echo Bernie's platform.

[pnwmom]

123. I think the Scandinavian countries appreciated her strong stands

at the UN in favor of women's rights and gay rights.

[Paka]

48. Thank you!

As a traveler who has spent a lot of time in out-of-the-way places, I have had the sorrow of seeing first hand a lot of what we have done in the name of democracy and regime change.

[MADem]

32. Gee, is that a shot of downtown Burlington VT?

Ooops, I dropped it.....?

No, actually it's a picture of an Israeli jet over GAZA--nothing to do with USA or the Democratic Party.

Nice try at "emotional appeal" but you really should try using appropriate imagery.

[oasis]

45. Good catch MADem.

[WillyT]

16. Redemption...

[Bleacher Creature]

6. Getting really tired of these backhanded insults.

I'm not going to apologize for voting for the candidate who I think has the most potential to actually enact and implement progressive policies.

Sanders definitely understands the issues and knows how to talk about them, but that's worthless if he can't actually do anything to bring about those changes.

[Buzz Clik]

9. Ha! Have you touched the hem of his garment? I think not!

[WillyT]

17. Redemption...

[PowerToThePeople]

7. It wasn't me.

K&R

[seabeyond]

18. Redemption?

[leftofcool]

19. Do you think Bernie will be able to raise the dead too?

[DirtyHippyBastard]

31. Right

So fuck em

[oasis]

47. There's not a poster on this thread that doesn't have compassion for

the many innocents who die in wars or natural disasters. But you already knew that.

[Brainstormy]

24. I know. Really? n/t

[randome]

21. History doesn't look that kindly on whiners.

I guess your point is that America is to blame for supporting Clinton since the polls show her being overwhelmingly supported -by voters.

Or do you base your complaints on unofficial gut feelings of what DUers think?

Sound like you're willing to give up instead of continue the fight. Clinton looks set to be our next President. The thing to do is plan for how to push her further to the left. Not to complain that you didn't get your way.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is -hockey- Conservative values!"[/center][/font][hr]

[beltanefauve]

88. The only thing

that'll get "pushed to the left" will be her rhetoric.

Not good enough.

[randome]

109. Still, what are you going to do? Give up?

I say work with what you got. (Although I hate using the word 'got'.)
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You’re cheating yourself if you don’t accept the same benefit of a doubt you’d offer anyone else.[/center][/font][hr]

[NCTraveler]

22. Yes, I am. Twice. Nt

[Punkingal]

25. Nope.

Not me.

[BKH70041]

26. One chance???

Says who?

[comradebillyboy]

27. I will be quite happy to vote for Hillary

Your obnoxious condescension persuades no one to support your candidate and just creates ill will.

[Yallow]

46. "trying to develop nuclear weapons" - Zero Evidence Hillary

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

Imaginary WMD's. Imaginary intelligence reports. Imaginary threats. Imaginary nuclear weapons.

Where did she get her info?

Curveball?

Probably believed Bush.

This alone disqualifies her.

Sorry.

Still better than a Republican, but really. Millions of non voters will turn out to vote for this?

[Yallow]

51. Hillary Wasn't The Only One

It ain't pretty....

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

After all of this, I believed Saddam had WMD's, supported the invasion, and hoped like hell we found some.

I, they, and America was wrong.

I was lied to.

They had access to intelligence info I don't.

Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.
Dick Cheney
August 26, 2002

http://www.realnews247.com/wmd_quote_before_after_the_invasion.htm

[JDPriestly]

56. Thank you.

[Broward]

28. There are a lot of conservatives that traffic here.

[paleotn]

81. And most seem to be HRC supporters. (nt)

[ronnykmarshall]

29. You're just a ray of fucking sunshine aren't you?

[Starry Messenger]

35. Redemption isn't a reason to vote.

[pnwmom]

37. This isn't about redemption and Bernie can't be our savior.

No President can.

We need a Congress full of Democrats, and Democrats in State Houses and Governors' mansions across the country.

Anyone who votes for Bernie thinking he can wave a magic wand and save us is sadly mistaken.

[Yallow]

44. Exactly - Bernie Appeals To People Who Don't Like Sellouts

Who may actually turn out for once.

Who will turn out to put Goldman Sachs wet dream in the White House?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/26/wall-street-links-hillary-clinton-aides-economic-policy-doubts

Sorry, but almost half of the Americans who can vote don't.

Bernie may change that.

[farleftlib]

41. So much innocent blood spilled, now her sights are on Syria

God help us all if she gets in the WH. I'd feel almost as guilty and ashamed as when Bush Jr. was prez.

[840high]

63. Yep - sad

[Yallow]

42. Vote For Real Change Or The Wall Street / Goldman Sachs / DLC / TPP Girl

Boy, this is a tough one.....

[postatomic]

43. I don't need to be saved. Long past that.

But thanks and Happy New Year!!!

[MohRokTah]

49. I am voting for Hillary BECAUSE this is our one chance for redemption. eom

[JDPriestly]

50. K&R a million times.

[NoMoreRepugs]

54. If the back n forth btwn HRC and Bernie supporters

continues to escalate over the next couple of months as it has over the last couple this place is going to look like a war zone

[Doctor_J]

57. It's clear that a LOT of duers don't want uhc, don't want to rein in Pentagon spending, don't want

to get wall street under control, want the war in the middle east to continue indefinitely, want education to get less affordable, think poverty wages are just fine, and don't really mind losing millions of young voters and getting trounced down ticket. They are completely wrapped up in gender politics. On the issues they either are de facto republicans, or don't care.

[840high]

64. I think a lot of DU'ers are financially very

comfortable and don't care about other people. There is also a lot of DU-ers who will vote for Hillary 'cuz she's a woman. IMO

[paleotn]

82. Well said. (nt)

[Live and Learn]

60. K&R nt

[840high]

61. Happy New Year to you

and your family. Hi MOM!

[ucrdem]

66. Yes and yes.

Wouldn't have believed it eight years ago but here we are. Happy 2016!

[Gloria]

68. What, is this church???

Screw it, I'm interested in one thing...the Supreme Court....which affects EVERYTHING in the future....

[senz]

73. The Supreme Court is already WAY too corporatist.

One more reason why we need Bernie Sanders!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

69. Nope. I don't want to waste my vote.

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost. John Quincy Adams

[slipslidingaway]

70. You always have wonderful quotes!!! My vote cannot be assumed, it needs to be earned ...

and I think many millennials feel the same way. They are not as confined by traditional teams, and they are not for the status quo.

Happy 2016!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. Young wolves, show us your teeth. John Steinbeck

And, a Happy New Year to you.

Being 71 and never expecting to get to 2016 (Hell, I never expected to get to 2000) I'm looking forward to another new year and a bit surprised by it.

[slipslidingaway]

72. 71 and the 71st post, should mean something good :)

hopefully the young will not always play the two party game, being in our 60's we have done that for too long!

Hard to know when to break cycle, the lesser of two evils hangs over many people's heads. Sometimes things have to get worse before they improve. My daughter joked about voting for Trump last night, she was not totally seriously, but said she could move to Canada as a 30 year old internist, be just fine and let the crazy people take over. I said what about us

We'll just keep on going, until we cannot, but hopefully the next generation will be more discerning and not as complacent. Although I have never been one to abide by all the rules!

'Young wolves show us your teeth' they are beginning to do so! And that is a wonderful thing

[DemocratSinceBirth]

75. Very informative thread./nt

[greenman3610]

76. "Because there's not a dime's worth of difference between Al Gore and George Bush"

did we not learn anything?
that experimental result was sub-optimal.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

80. Deja vu!

[99Forever]

86. Me either.

[hack89]

87. Yes, I plan to do exactly that. Nt

[Beacool]

91. Oh please, the melodrama.

I will proudly vote for Hillary.

[Persondem]

93. Hell yes!! Because redemption only happens if you can win a general election.

Pipe dreams and fantasies don't count for squat.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

94. It was not Me

Carter- Raygun

Gore - Bush

Sanders - Clinton

[restorefreedom]

120. hell, yeah, willyT!

our country has a lot to make up for

to other countries
to our own citizens
to other beings
to the planet

oh the damage and bloodshed we have wrought....


bernie wil be able to get the ball rolling on better, though...

[WillyT]

121. Apparently... Many Here Don't Think So...

[restorefreedom]

128. some have heads in sand, and some

i think are genuine corporate centrists, so they like her policies.

good thing the crowds are for bernie!

[Rincewind]

126. Damn right, I'm voting for Hillary.

I don't trust Sanders.

[MisterP]

127. lolwut