Clearing up a lie and/or misrepresentation:

[Fawke Em]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by SYFROYH (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

This picture of Bernie is on Amtrak. Not some luxury bus.



Know how I know? Because I have visual evidence.



And here's the story with it with the photo cutline that it is, indeed, out of DC.

http://www.studlife.com/news/region/2012/02/06/construction-on-chicago-to-st-louis-high-speed-rail-in-progress-to-finish-by-2014/

Notice that the seats are the same, the lighting on the floor is the same and the window latches are the same.

He's on Amtrak.

Here's the post in a thread that is now locked or I would have addressed it there:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=966268

(I wanted to bold WHY I didn't address it in the thread in case anyone wonders)

[nc4bo]

1. Bernie Sanders has my vote!! He represents the 99%, no question about it! nt

[Uncle Joe]

2. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Fawke Em.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

3. A train!

[Fawke Em]

5. Yup.

And it wasn't hard to find.

I Googled "inside Amtrak train DC" and bingo.

The misrepresentation should never have occurred.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

44. Is this his supposed private jet? LOL!

[Autumn]

4. The windows alone cleared that up for me as soon as I saw that picture

luxury bus

[Douglas Carpenter]

12. "luxury bus" - yeah that is pretty funny - If he stays in the Motel 6 will they criticize

him for not camping outside?

[Fawke Em]

14. No. They'll complain that he's staying at a place that wastes energy by keeping the light on

for him.

[Art_from_Ark]

29. LOL!

That's not too far from the truth.

[Fawke Em]

13. When I first saw the pic on Twitter, it was accompanied with a Tweet

that said it was Amtrak.

I can't find that, now, but that's how I even knew to look for Amtrak.

It took two seconds to find a matching image.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Well done. K&R

[Scootaloo]

7. Well hell Fawke Em, you know what Joseph Ducreux always said

[Fawke Em]

9. Given the "airplane wars," I simply couldn't let that stand.

I realize Sanders has to bend on his methods of campaigning given the time restraints and I bet he wishes he didn't have to travel on a rented plane.

That said, the man consistently uses public transportation and commercial airlines whenever possible. He also walks to work nearly every day when he's in DC.

He's certainly proven to me that he tries to be the best steward he can be, but no one can do it 100 percent of the time. Me? I'd love to have public transportation to go to work, but I live in a city and work in the county and our buses only run in the city. I have to drive.

[nenagh]

8. Well done Fawke Em...

and thank you...for the honesty.

[CharlotteVale]

10. ROFL, thank you. That was such a strange doubling down!

[gwheezie]

11. I love amtrak

I hope whoever the next president is expanding rail service is an important part of their agenda.

[senz]

16. I love it, too.

It's soothing.

[Fawke Em]

21. Sanders has filed a bill that includes that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2015/01/27/bernie-sanders-wants-to-spend-1-trillion-on-infrastruture/

[senz]

15. They'll say anything to take Bernie down.

They want to paint him as someone he's not and they just make it up as they go along. I'm glad Bernie doesn't have to read all this garbage.

Thanks, Fawke Em!

[nc4bo]

17. +1! nt

[CorporatistNation]

55. K and R for The Ordinary Man Who Will Be America's Next Commander in Chief.

[MisterP]

18. sweet MOSES, it's like they're villains in a Chick Tract or something

[JonLeibowitz]

50. I'm not sure how many people on this board are going to know what that is, but I agree!

Spot on!

[MisterP]

65. (for the untutored, it's a screaming maniac's idea of what a screaming maniac would be)

[silvershadow]

19. Bump for Amtrak and public transportation. nt

[jalan48]

20. Apparently Bernie doesn't subscribe to the "He's entitled" school of thought.

[Le Taz Hot]

22. So, in that I have every single one of them now on ignore

is this the latest meme or something from the bowels of hell, a.k.a., the Hillary camp? Were they trying to say he was on a luxury bus? What?

[Fawke Em]

38. Yes, pretty much. eom

[LiberalArkie]

23. Thanks for the research.

[pa28]

24. Missed that other thread thanks for the laugh!

It's Bernie on some FANCY BUS suffering from INDIGESTION!

Sanctimonious! Fancy leather!

Sorry, the fancy bus thing got me.

[Art_from_Ark]

34. Yeah, Bernie should be traveling on a bus

like the one I took from El Paso to Ciudad Juarez

[farleftlib]

25. I never clicked on that thread

but if this is part of its greatest hits, I have to say....bwahahahaha

[R B Garr]

26. That looks like Amtrak's Acela FIRST CLASS LUXURY

high-speed train. That's definitely not coach or even business class.

And it's only because Bermie fans have gone overboard making him out to be some saviour is this even brought up.

[pa28]

31. With FANCY LEATHER.

Don't forget the fancy leather.

[Autumn]

35. Look at all that legroom!

[MADem]

72. Yeah....the northeast regional COACH seats look like this....

No fancy leather.

[Autumn]

33. Of course students can afford FIRST CLASS LUXURY.

That is the inside of the Acela Express car.

http://www.studlife.com/news/region/2012/02/06/construction-on-chicago-to-st-louis-high-speed-rail-in-progress-to-finish-by-2014/

[R B Garr]

36. That's Amtrak's description. FIRST CLASS LUXURY

HIGH SPEED train.

Uh oh, now Amtrak goes under the bus.

Why bring up students. Totally irrelevanvt. Some students drive BMW's. Who cares.

[Autumn]

41. Obviously you didn't read the article about that train. Students are not totally irrelevanvt.

You made the claim

That looks like Amtrak's Acela FIRST CLASS LUXURY
high-speed train. That's definitely not coach or even business class.

I guess it's not coach or even business class. It's student class

the project managers are currently working out ticket prices that are reasonable but will still help pay for new features the trains will offer passengers, such as Wi-Fi access and improved food services.

and that's why I brought them up.

[R B Garr]

45. It's Amtrak's Acela train. I don't see students anywhere

near Bermie, do you?

Just because people pay different rates doesn't mean everyone does. Amtrak advertised it as HIGH SPEED LUXURY.

I bet you'll spend the whole night Googling what a shitty train it is so you can salvage this little Bernie facade.

[Autumn]

49. I hear you can travel Grayhound in COMFORT and STYLE also

[R B Garr]

57. You're the ones making an issue out of nothing

trying to maintain some saintly facade. The rest of us in reality.know that these are gimmicks.

[Fawke Em]

73. We're not maintaining that he's "saintly."

Quite the contrary.

We're maintaining that he's more like the average person who does travel in regular cars and on regular trains and in coach on commercial airlines.

Unless you think we're trying to make the point that the average middle class Joe and Jane Doe are saintly.

[Fawke Em]

52. There's nothing wrong with it. It's not "shitty," but it's not "luxury," either.

I mean, it looks nice, but it looks just like the passenger trains in Europe.

THIS is a luxurious train:




On edit: I'd like to add that perhaps that so-called "luxury" Amtrak train passes as "luxury" here in the states because we're so woefully behind on rail travel. In Europe, most of the average passenger trains look like that.

Here's one:



Good leg and head room. Not designed to eek out more money by squishing up passengers like corporate-owned "public" travel here.

[R B Garr]

69. Amtrak markets it as a luxury first class train

Who cares about random pictures of irrelevant trains. Its Amtrak's premier service. Who cares about train pictures from Europe.

[Autumn]

61. Nope, I'm done. Its been established it's not a luxurious first class private plane.

it's also been established that it's not a luxury first class train as you claimed in your post

Gutierrez, section chief of Rail Program Planning at the Illinois Department of Transportation. “This generation is big on trains, and there will be Amtrak student discounts.”

Gutierrez said that the project managers are currently working out ticket prices that are reasonable but will still help pay for new features the trains will offer passengers, such as Wi-Fi access and improved food services.

“Right now we’re trying to figure out how much we can raise ticket prices so that we won’t lose ridership,” Gutierrez said. “But they won’t go up super high, just because it’s so easy to jump on a plane instead.”

http://www.studlife.com/news/region/2012/02/06/construction-on-chicago-to-st-louis-high-speed-rail-in-progress-to-finish-by-2014/

[R B Garr]

64. From your article: AMTRAK STUDENT DISCOUNTS

Amtrak markets to all passengers. On this luxury train, they give STUDENT DISCOUNTS.

So nothing had been established except you are trying to promote some irrelevant article.

[R B Garr]

48. From your irrelevant article: AMTRAK STUDENT DISCOUNTS

[Autumn]

56. “Students are the one of the important markets we want to reach with this project"

But now I'm bored with this conversation. Students

[R B Garr]

60. Students pay LESS. Whats not to get?

Students ride the FIRST CLASS LUXURY HIGH SPEED train ----- for less money. Simple concept.

The train was not made only for students. Everyone can ride the train.

[Fawke Em]

67. Let's clear this up.

The average price for a week's travel on this train is $150-$200.

If Bernie was going to fly or drive back and forth to Vermont, the cost would be more than twice that if he only went to and from the capital to his home state once a week by plane.

By car, the price, obviously, would fluctuate based on the cost of fuel, but I can't imagine it would be cheaper.

Either way, this so-called "luxury" train still has a far smaller carbon footprint than either an airplane or a car.

[nc4bo]

63. Oh stop - I'm lmao with their efforts to raise Bernie up to

Clinton, I and II, levels of king and queenly luxuriousness.

Sanders and Biden seem like regular Joe's in comparison.

If it's good enough Joe Biden, it's good enough for Bernie Sanders.

Thanks for the extra clarification!

[MADem]

68. The ACELA costs more than the shuttle!

Although he does qualify for the 62+ senior discount.

[stage left]

27. And he's drinking Dunkin Donuts coffee

not Starbucks.

[Fawke Em]

42. Dunkin is my favorite coffee.

I like it sooooo much better than Starbucks.

I even had one this morning. Hubby went to the new Dunkin that was built nearly directly across the street from the Krispy Kreme we've had for years to try it out. He's from New England where Dunkin is on every corner, but I'm from the South and like Krispy Kreme's donuts far more. Dunkin's are too much like cake and less like airy donuts to me.

Verdict: the kids didn't much care for the donuts (they like KK better) and don't drink coffee. So... I guess I'll be going to KK for the donuts for the family, but can certainly drive thru Dunkin for my morning coffee on my way to work.

Everybody's happy!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

46. I like their coffee

[sadoldgirl]

28. Great find, but

as far as the flying is concerned, I would like to ask my
fellow Bernie supporters to be more reasonable.

As former FL she is still under secret service protection,
which may make it very difficult to fly commercially.

As far as Bernie is concerned: Ever since I attended here
a five to seven thousand rally, I thought that he needs
the same kind of protection. Now, when he is much more
known and a thorn in many people's flesh, I am even more
worried about his safety.

Yes, I know you like to see him interacting with the people,
but I am old enough to remember some events.

(By the way, no complaint from me about criticism about
a $600 haircut!)

[Fawke Em]

39. I really haven't participated much in the airplane wars other than to point out

that Clinton has traveled on commercial airlines with her Secret Service detail, so it's not unheard of.

[Duppers]

30. K & R

Thank you!

[Doctor_J]

32. When they discuss issues, they sound like idiots

Like the dude last night who likes our healthcare system, and doesn't care if millions have none and other millions can't afford their copays and deductibles.

Therefore, lying is the go-to tactic. It's a lot like Fox "News"

[Thinkingabout]

37. Time to clear up the lie:

This is what was posted on the link provided:




"The picture used to illustrate this sanctimonious thread about Sanders flying coach very plainly shows him on some sort of luxury bus with fancy leather seats (looks like the "Limo Liner" I take to NYC on occasion--very nice, with TV and wifi), not a coach seat in a plane.

Unless you can open windows on planes, now? Check out those "plane" windows in this picture! LOL! Who wouldn't love that kind of legroom in coach"





This is not a plane, whether it is a train we do know planes do not have windows to open. So to clear up the lie or misrepresentation of this is not Sanders on a coach flight.

[Fawke Em]

40. To even further clear it up:

The first time this picture was posted - months ago - the Twitter feed SAID he was on Amtrak. I can no longer find that original Tweet, but will look again.

What happened in the interim is that someone started the #BernieonaPlane hashtag and someone else who was not the orignial Tweeter and without much knowledge or thought included that picture. You are correct that he's not on a plane (and I addressed that up-thread, but it should be self-explanatory in the OP since Amtrak isn't a commercial airline).

Apparently, it's been picked up from there and spread by the MSM and onto these pages.

That said, it's not a plane, but it's not a private luxury bus like rock bands use, either.

[Thinkingabout]

43. What was pointed out by the poster link in the post was it was not a plane

Apparently the poster has also ridden luxury buses which appears similar. I dont understand posting basically the same information and calling it a lie or misrepresentation when pointed he was not on a plane, he wasn't.

[Fawke Em]

47. Because the poster DID say he was on a luxury bus.

"very plainly shows him on some sort of luxury bus with fancy leather seats..." and then they repeated it again in a subsequent post in that thread.

THAT'S the misrepresentation I was pointing out. I'm not arguing about planes. Anyone who has ridden on a plane knows you can't unlatch the windows.

[Thinkingabout]

51. You have it now, the point was to show this transportation had windows

Which opened, we know commercial planes do not have windows which open.

Also, didn't the poster say "flying" in the post?

[JonLeibowitz]

58. Horse-drawn carriages also don't have windows. Why jump to luxury bus?

Something about fitting a pre-existing narrative I bet.

[Thinkingabout]

66. Read the thread to see where the story starts and the link

Provided.

[JonLeibowitz]

71. I agree, you should do that. n/t

[Thinkingabout]

74. I did read it, I did not jump to conclusions.

[MADem]

62. I said that's what it LOOKED like. Are you "not telling the truth" about what I said?

I won't use that ugly "L" word you've been bandying about.

Why don't you "accurately represent" the full arc of the conversation--and take this "cough-misrepresentation-cough" all the way home to the SOURCE?

Or are you afraid of ticking off allies?
Bernie Sanders still flying coach, while Hillary flies the Wall Street jet..


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=81648

[Dem2]

53. Very nice, taking the train is awesome

Also, that's my coffee he stole.

[Enthusiast]

54. Kicked and recommended!

[MADem]

59. Well, gee--you should really concern yourself with THIS misrepresentation of the photograph....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=81648

Why don't you correct this LIE (your term) at the source? You know, the SOURCE that was provided in the post you're using to pin the blame on me?

That'll "solve the problem" I should think.

I mean, since you're suggesting (rather rudely, too, I should say) that I LIED, let us make it clear from whence that LIE came....

[aikoaiko]

75. Locking.

Last edited Sat Jan 2, 2016, 03:00 PM - Edit history (1)

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