2016 Postmortem
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floriduck
(2,262 posts)needs to help bail his wife out of a failing campaign in New Hampshire.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... it's his own backyard! His numbers should have been similar to Hillary's lead in SC, yet he's barely squeaking by.
If he's having this much difficulty in NH, then he's the one who's failing.
Keep whistling.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)Now that's a brave nurse. I like your stubbornness.
Keep on Berning.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)What I did say is that Bernie is struggling in what should have been a blowout state for him. He's squeaking by, but if he's having so much trouble in NH (of all places) things really don't look good for him in having a pathway to the nomination.
He'll win a handful of states, he might even win NH ... but it won't be enough to get the nomination.
Cha
(309,862 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Given that, it is remarkable that he is doing so well.
Hekate
(97,325 posts)
ronnykmarshall
(35,357 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)which are larger and from an actual candidate.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)He also happens to be a former President
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)And earlier today, I think it was MSNBC, a reporter said the complaints about lack of airtime for Bernie were unfounded. Yet another WTF!
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)they would probably break in for a Trump speech if he were speaking
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)It's pretty much the same old stump speech, over and over, right?
zazen
(2,978 posts)I try to be a consistent radical feminist, and it is outrageous than anyone would ever suggest Sanders has been sexist or privileged and not call out Bill for his consistent exercise of the male privilege of functional polygamy and seeking younger partners.
I hate to see him be so entitled to have women on the side as if he's doing a woman as powerful as Hilary a favor by staying married to her because, gee, she's his own age. Why does he get to grow old and fat while she is forced to look 20 years younger and is rendered neutered in the press--why does he get to get a wink wink for having lots of female partners while we assume she should be grateful?
I can't stand the woman's politics, but it's outrageous that the best she can do is keep a philandering male by her side because a strong woman over 40--who still looks as good as she does--is considered sexually abhorrent or something.
I wish she had dumped him and found a faithful guy her own age (or younger) who adores her. Yes, Bill's smart, but I have no doubt she was equally the brains behind his presidency during the 90s. She's already been president--she just didn't get the credit for it. I give her credit for it, which is why I don't want to RE-ELECT her.
But I'll take her any day over her husband. She deserves better.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)zazen
(2,978 posts)What is with Clinton supporters?
I was extremely vocal about the impeachment absurdity and one of the first few hundred to join MoveOn. The worst travesty of that was how the Republicans sexually assaulted Monica Lewinsky by turning her into pornography against her will. It sickened me.
But just because people are accomplished doesn't entitle them to the Presidency of the United States. Therefore, saying we don't think they should be in the White House doesn't mean we think they haven't accomplished anything.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Hillary is running for president, not Bill. I'm voting for her, not him. And she deserves to be treated as an accomplished woman in her own right and not an extension of her husband.
zazen
(2,978 posts)I think this was my point--that if/when I have to vote for her, it'll be in spite of him.
I think she's smart to have kept him out of the limelight and she may very well be having him return to the b/g if my hunch is right.
This is 2016, not 1996, and women are less tolerant of the "boys will be boys" stuff, especially the millennials. See if I'm not right.
She SHOULD run on her own brains and talent. I just wish I agreed with her policies and ideology. I don't.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)If she decides to do so should we keep her out of the limelight?
zazen
(2,978 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)zazen
(2,978 posts)
Historic NY
(38,867 posts)he's not only out there for her, he is out for the Democrats too.
"In a wide-ranging address that took voters through Hillary Clinton’s work as a young lawyer in Arkansas, ways to combat heroin addiction, the political achievements of President Barack Obama and the failings of America’s fourteenth president, Franklin Pierce, Bill Clinton argued that the Democratic front-runner offers the best plan to restore “broadly shared prosperity.”
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Some don't seem to quite get it.
You know, I have no idea what went on between the Clintons or does go on. But I have always wondered if they stuck it out for political and/or financial reasons. mostly. Maybe they 'cut a deal.'
Who knows, maybe not. Maybe they just really like each other. If so, great. It's not important to me.
But, what is significant to me is that this campaign for the Democratic nomination is a real David and Goliath issue. And the fact that a guy like Bernie Sanders, who probably never even wanted to be president, is within striking distance of this.... 'behemoth' -- world-wide name recognition, corrupting financial backing, support of the Democratic rain makers and shakers, Bernie's difficulty in getting media coverage, and on and on.... is just astounding.
I have even seen people here.. DU... compare Hillary having William Jefferson campaign for her with Jane campaigning for Bernie. eeesshh !!
modestybl
(458 posts)... especially when he's so eager to work with the current House Speaker...
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)snip
As ABC notes, Clinton's actual speech was substantively the same as his discussion with Ryan: The NY-26 election turned on the public not liking Ryan's Medicare proposals, and Clinton agrees with that same judgment to oppose Ryan's plan, but he also cautioned against doing nothing on the issue as a reaction to the election.
modestybl
(458 posts)Monica might have saved us here...
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/05/29/the-pact-between-bill-clinton-and-newt-gingrich
modestybl
(458 posts)... getting rid of the Medicare Advantage, and allowing Medicare to negotiate drug costs would be a great start... WJC has always been too partial to exposing the most vulnerable in our society to "marketplace solutions" ...
But doing nothing would be preferrable to putting Medicare on a privatization path...
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Like NAFTA, a trade agreement that is responsible for the continued outsourcing of US manufacturing jobs.
Like signing the Gramm, Leach, Blily Act, which gutted the Glass Steagall Act and led directly to the financial meltdown.
Like Welfare Reform, which gutted welfare and demonized welfare recipients.
Like sentencing reform, which was anything but reform and filled US prisons.
This is just a short list of Willie's accomplishments. I was unsure whether or not to list his sexual affairs with interns young enough to be his daughter.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,285 posts)stupidicus
(2,570 posts)because none of a very lengthy list of bs like that seems to dissuade them from their starry-eyed notions about his admin.
They've really got nothing there but a stock bubble-fueled period of high econ activity, and thta's about it.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)that has had a disproportionate and very negative impact on "black lives". Your forgiveness is touching, but don't spoeak for anyone but yourself, no?
Or are you talking about that stock bubble that lent the illusion the great economy was all about his policies, tax raises, etc.
He as pres, spearheaded the DLC/3rdwayer, not bloodless coup, takeover of the dem party and therefore created the very conditions overwhich this schism in the dem party arose and is being battled out in the primary.
oasis
(52,228 posts)Naturally, he has a few right and left wing detractors who would never be satisfied with any of his accomplishments.
Fact: William Jefferson Clinton is still admired by millions of Democrats.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Thus making me a left wing detractor. Would you care to list what you feel best represents Willie's accomplishments?
Fact: Ronald Wilson Reagan is still admired by millions of Republicans. And that proves what?
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)"millions" are still oblivious to or fully supportive of BC's efforts, despite the fact that the bad far outweighs the good.
It's like for some his econ record trumps all.
oasis
(52,228 posts)who benefited from the Clinton era prosperity.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Who benefited?
oasis
(52,228 posts)oasis
(52,228 posts)That's enough to win plenty of lifetime admirers.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)for millions of others, it evaporated when the bubble burst.
There's a direct corrolation between rising awareness of his failures and support for BS and opposition to HC I'd say.
oasis
(52,228 posts)and elections.
Btw, Hillary Clinton=American Pharoah in this contest.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)Hillary of Ark...lol
oasis
(52,228 posts)the annual White House Easter Egg Roll. 
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)but is that "Mr Natural" that you're using as your avatar?
I don't know if I have a wire or two crossed, or if that's the little guy that use to appear on some...
oasis
(52,228 posts)Great stuff, back in the day.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Jobs at WalMart, jobs at McDonalds, Burger King, Wendys, the mall. Jobs stocking store shelves with Chinese and Vietnamese merchandise.
Dumping of products like Chinese steel, Chinese tires, Asian cars, etc.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)What happens in their marriage is no one's business. It wasn't back then and it is still not. I don't think Bill has gotten a wink wink by any means. He was impeached and the whole family publicly humiliated over something which should have remained a private matter.
zazen
(2,978 posts)I do believe the way she's treated in her marriage is fair game.
I was disgusted by the impeachment situation and I don't want to hear about people's private sex lives. The Republicans sexually assaulted all of us by forcing sexual disclosure on Monica Lewinsky and by forcing us to be confronted with it. Psychologically it felt like being in the presence of a person sexually exposing themselves, and that's on Ken Starr et al.
However, when so many supporters of Hillary claim the primary reason they want to elect her is what a role model she'll be for young women, then that kind of personal inspirational invocation opens up how she lives her entire life to scrutiny.
I don't judge her for tolerating Bill's repeated infidelities with exceptionally younger women, but one can't argue that 1) her whole life experience is this amazing model to which female youth should aspire and 2) not acknowledge the profound disappointment with which we as females are faced every time we're reminded of it.
Every time I see her I'm reminded that strong heterosexual women are supposed to feel lucky as we age that any man will stick by us. That we have to put up with this shit. I have other reasons for opposing her policies, but I also am sickened that I have to be reminded of him and his male privilege.
Male privilege doesn't mean the men in question haven't accomplished anything. Since all men benefit from it and many men exploit it, our civilization is built on it.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)do you hold Bernie to the same standards? Because the GOP has some kindling for that fire too. Maybe Bill did stay with Hillary because of her accomplishments.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I've seen multiple hidden posts that dared to mention certain aspects of Bernie's past.
zazen
(2,978 posts)I agree with you there. I don't know anything other than the few isolated early skeletons, but if people know more, that shouldn't be silenced.
If the pattern were continuing into the recent past or present (and not strictly about children), it ought to be out in the open (because the Republicans would have a field day with it anyway).
I feel that way with any candidate. It's patterns, not one-off behaviors in which all humans engage. But the pattern of repeated promises to change and failures to indicates a larger issue with dishonesty and does become the public's business.
zazen
(2,978 posts)You can't pick and choose from his history and then, when we bring up very relevant points that have to do with the supposed feminism Hillary's election is meant to promote, say, oh, that history is irrelevant and the personal is irrelevant and we're being ridiculous and it's only Hillary who's running.
I'd like to leave him out of this. I'd also like to leave his treatment of her and her having to tolerate it out of this. That was my original point.
But when you link to his talk and are cheering, and the mainstream media links to it and doesn't cover any of Bernie's rallies, then you're making him relevant.
You can't have it both ways.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)I think Jane Sanders should campaign for her husband. Bill Clinton is a former President I can't erase history, more Americans like him than those who don't. I see you are one of the latter. Have a nice day.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)a human one--one with which many women can at once relate to in terms of disappointments and aspire to in terms of triumphs. She has had an amazing career. I would rather young women learn to rise above adversity and I do think she has demonstrated that you can continue on your path in inspite of obstacles. None of our life experiences make us any more than fellow human beings on journeys through this world. There are no saints, only others taking different paths--some more bumpy than others. We get into trouble when we start projecting our own motives and aspirations onto someone else's experience.
zazen
(2,978 posts)which you then say causes us to "get into trouble."
This is the subject for a series of essays, not this thread, but is the adversity aging women face of husbands repeatedly cheating on women with younger partners strictly some random life trauma, or is it the result of systemic oppression?
What gets conveniently elided here in these discussions is the gray area between this . . . is this a personal behavior on her husband's part that we must all ignore, or is this reflective of a larger politic?
And is her coping with it an example of personal strength against a rare tragedy or reflective of millennia of ways females have had to cope with male privilege in their interpersonal relationships?
What I'm saying is that when she's invoked as this gender hero--when the 50-year-corpus of the "personal is political" is invoked to argue for the vital urgency of her candidacy--then the politics of her marriage ARE RELEVANT.
So, her supporters either need keep it out, or come clean about it.
I'd rather judge her on her policies and ideology. She's brilliant and tough as nails, but I think her neoliberal ideology is fatally flawed.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)I agree with your contentions and would like to see you post an essay on the subject.
I agree that, whatever his supposed "accomplishments", and my response upthread lists some, William Clinton is an amoral, serial polygamist and while not really a pedophile, definitely one who preys on younger people. He is a great example of someone with tremendous intelligence, huge ambition, and zero morality. His shameless pursuit of money after leaving the Presidency is an interesting contrast to how Jimmy Carter has conducted himself.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(24,083 posts)REASON FOR ALERT
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ALERTER'S COMMENTS
So Bill Clinton is an almost-kinda-sorta pedophile. I used to come to DU to get away from this kind of crap.
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guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Given that I actually said:
..."William Clinton is an amoral, serial polygamist and while not really a pedophile, definitely one who preys on younger people...."
I did not say he was a pedophile. I said he was a person who preys, or preyed, on younger people. All of the evidence introduced during the impeachment farce, while it did not support Articles of Impeachment, DID give strong evidence that Willie Clinton was serially adulterous.
Sad that fellow Democrats cannot admit that even Democrats are human. Deifying our Presidents leads to denial and disillusionment.
R B Garr
(17,605 posts)to judge someone else's marriage. It' obvious from reading about them that their fierce intellects are a huge attraction for one another, but you are the one diminishing her by focusing on her sexual appeal only.
zazen
(2,978 posts)By calling out sexism and ageism against powerful women, I'm guilty of "focusing on her sexual appeal only?"
Wow.
R B Garr
(17,605 posts)from your generic diatribe against Bill, which is what I was responding to.
Their relationship is obviously rooted in much more than how she's held up sexually as she ages.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Why people love each other, support each other and are together is unique.
riversedge
(75,157 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)
LuvLoogie
(7,969 posts)upon the Clintons. Is it a feminist attitude or your simply not being able to move on as they have?
cali
(114,904 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)who has ever engaged in triangulation. In fact, I think Sanders has his own interesting little twist on it and uses it.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)Their styles are almost 180 degrees apart. Clinton was the "glad-hander" who found a way to work with the opposition. Obama remains insulated and aloof - eschewing almost any contact with those of diverse opinion (at least it looks that way from where I sit), choosing instead to keep his own counsel and "go it alone" if need be.
History will tell I guess, which leadership style was more effective...
zazen
(2,978 posts)Sanders has a very different agenda.
I do remain sincerely concerned about his capacity to enact much of it unless we have a broader progressive coalition in Congress, and that's apart from his leadership style, which has not been very compromising (yet), as I understand it.
Assuming there was a coalition in Congress large enough to help the US move more toward economic democracy, it'd be interesting to see how the glad-handing vs. aloof style (or another one) would work.
George II
(67,782 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Waiting for Someone
(27 posts)<cue in the crickets>
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Bill seemed to be making a great case that Hillary gets a lot more done when she's not in office. He kept talking about all the things she'd done, and emphasizing that they were done when she was 'not elected'.
I think the only thing he specifically mentioned that she got done while in office was that she got saved a lot more lives from AIDS overseas, by making sure that Africans got generic AIDS drugs cheaply, as opposed to what goes on in America, where the administration made sure we didn't get to bargain with Big Pharma when they did 'healthcare reform'. Wasn't sure if he was trying to put in a jab at Obama there.
(He might have mentioned others while I was taking the dogs out, but everything else I heard seemed to be done out of office.)
Bottom line? Hillary is a great person when she's not holding office. So let's keep her in the private sector, where she'll get a lot more good done.
riversedge
(75,157 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251972531
Hillary for NH Retweeted
Bill Clinton ?@billclinton 1h1 hour ago
Hitting the trail for @HillaryClinton in New Hampshire today. #ImWithHer
Bill Clinton YAY!
Again RWer's talking points about everybody else's sex life but their own. These people are the lookie loos of everything not in compliance with their own deranged minds unless if it pertains to them but their GAWD forgives. This is not the America I want to live in.
Phlem
(6,323 posts) ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)I have just heard the republicans are bringing out the Jeffrey Epstein scandal, asking why Bill went to the pedophile island 12 times? Trump was involved also they say. I smell a KKKarl Rove rat in there. Don't shoot the messenger here, I was just sent a bunch of what republicans are sending around. This won't be pretty.
riversedge
(75,157 posts)Julie McClain ?@McClainJulie 2h2 hours ago
No surprise, @billclinton brings Nashua crowd to its feet! Energized for next 36 days w/@HillaryforNH. #nhpolitics
Rachael Goldenberg ?@RachaelGoldie 2h2 hours ago
Like @HillaryClinton, @BillClinton speaks today about issues that matter - addiction, healthcare #42inthe603
Phlem
(6,323 posts)it's the crowd who lost their full time jobs because of NAFTA that don't like him too much. I haven't had a steady job ever since and so have a lot of my friends and family. But republicans I know would say, as long as you've got yours, it's all good huh.
This place is turning more and more rightwing as the days progress.
George II
(67,782 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)
George II
(67,782 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts) 99Forever
(14,524 posts)That should remind voters that when you buy a ticket on the Clinton Express, it includes a huge boxcar filled with Slick Willy's sleazy baggage.
oasis
(52,228 posts)They seem to be the ones who have been carrying it around for decades. 
99Forever
(14,524 posts)..."carrying it," it's still there and it's still sleazy.
oasis
(52,228 posts)retread "baggage" commentary, there still may be a handful of eager folks willing to listen. 
99Forever
(14,524 posts)There are millions and the barrage will be 24/7 and unrelenting. Living in denial might make you feel better, but don't expect the rest of us to defend Slick Willy. We've had more than our fill of that. In the meantime, not a damn thing gets done for people who are hurting and going under, but as long Hillary fulfills her personal power trip, who really gives a shit about those little people anyway.
oasis
(52,228 posts)To be clear, sad for all who have to struggle to make it relevant.
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
That's the lamest fucking attempt at a snide remark I've read this year.
oasis
(52,228 posts)I'm done going over this with you. Have fun with your ongoing project.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)"Parroting"
You are like a caricature of every kneejerk excuse in the world.
Keep digging.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)A well liked respected former Democratic President of the United States denigrated to a RW smear nickname, on DEMOCRATIC Underground. Only RWers call him that usually.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)In you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
And BTW
Fuck each and every RW POS on the planet, who btw, Hillary's views are a whole fucking bunch closer to than mine.
MrWendel
(1,881 posts)Trump.
ucrdem
(15,720 posts)
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)Because of his policies....NAFTA, Telecommunication Act, etc. I can no longer even listen to him.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)I don't want to hear crap about her spouses support for anything her or her perspective. Not ok for one, not ok for both.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts) JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)The cost of posting is commentary. Why would i ignore it?
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)It's primary season chummer, we're almost ALL upset at something, it's ok. Weather the slings and arrows, welcome to legislature. (Unlike parliament we've no two drink minimum)
then I will drink upJackInGreen
(2,975 posts)Serious, the silly season is sick, gods willing we'll find our way back together at the end of things, but there've been purges before. We'll probably see another as anyone not current toeing the (current) party line finds themselves less and less welcome. Never let it stop you (or anyone that challenges you, like me) from speaking your mind and being loud and proud about what you think.
