The difference between the endorsements by MoveOn and Planned Parenthood:

[redgreenandblue]

One was the result of a transparent democratic process and expressed the will of the members, while the other was decided top-down by management, against the will of a large segment of supporters and donors.

[Betty Karlson]

1. Astutely observed.

One was followed by a backlash, the other was wisely accepted.

[LiberalArkie]

51. It was just like some of the unions endorsements. CWA members took a vote of members to see who to

support and the members selected Bernie, some of the other unions polled their management and supported Hillary.

[senz]

65. One was top down. The other is bottom up.

Democracy vs. oligarchy.

[riversedge]

2. Each camp got a great endorsement and you have to make it vile. Shameful.

[artislife]

15. How is that "vile"? TIA

[riversedge]

36. Be happy for each campaign. No need to diss on PP

[Tommy2Tone]

39. That's impossible

No way they can get beyond all Clinton endorsements are bad and all Sanders endorsements are good.

[artislife]

42. I never commented on the PP endorsement.

I never threatened to withhold money, either.

[Tommy2Tone]

45. I was addressing the Sanders fans in general

Not any specific person or comment.

[Vincardog]

75. Please point a link to any Sanders fan dissing pp.

[one_voice]

84. seriously? did you miss all the outrage against PP?

You must not have been on DU for the last week. Check some of the threads from Sunday. I'm not linking. Too many people with their finger on the alert button.

[Plucketeer]

32. Yeah.....

How is an endorsement that's achieved democratically - vile and shameful? I'll give you an example of vile and shameful: My duly elected "representatives" have NEVER, EVER asked me how I wanted them to vote on various issues. But maybe that's representation by your standards.

[Android3.14]

53. Just to be clear, redgreenandblue did not make it vile

The way Planned Parenthood, as well as other organizations, determined their endorsements made it vile. The OP was just pointing it out. Your rebuke is almost like reprimanding a friend who points to a mess on the sidewalk in order to help a fellow Democrat avoid the hazard.

[Amimnoch]

104. Get with the program.. Sanders - good. Clinton - Bad

This meme will be repeated until everyone agrees.

[Le Taz Hot]

3. That has been true of the union endorsements as well.

[randome]

4. You have selected option #2. Please confirm.

1. The MSM is conspiring against Sanders.
2. Planned Parenthood is conspiring against Sanders.
3. The DNC is conspiring against Sanders.
4. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz is conspiring against Sanders.
5. The IT company that works for the DNC is conspiring against Sanders.
6. The polling companies are conspiring against Sanders.
7. And, of course, those of us on DU who support the eventual nominee (Clinton or Sanders) are conspiring against Sanders.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[vi5]

6. O.k. i laughed....

...Sanders supporter here, but this was pretty fucking funny. Nice work.

[randys1]

27. And TODAY the SC will purposely violate the law or precedent and GUT UNIONS

AND WILL DO MUCH MORE, WAY WORSE, IF ALLOWED MORE CONS ON THE COURT

And we sit here and argue about which of our two NON terrorist candidates is the devil.

[randome]

35. You'd think if anything would unite us, it would be this disastrous SC.

But no, we're too busy arguing amongst ourselves, as you pointed out. I don't know if it's fortunate or not that DU is not more widely read.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[tblue37]

107. +1. I strongly support Bernie, but I will avidly support whoever is our candidate in the GE.

I find the nasty posts from both sides to be off-putting, but fortunately I think most nasty posts come from a small but vocal minority--again, on both sides.

[Lazy Daisy]

44. Because facts matter

Just electing someone who says they are a Democrat doesn't mean you will get the desired outcome.

Take a look at Chicago these days. Rahm Emanual is gutting unions, is REAL cozy with the current Republican Governor who is gutting the state and has a policing problem he is completely tone deaf to.

So worrying about a SC under a President other than Bernie Sanders is a concern.

[randys1]

60. Oh, so Hillary might appoint SC justices who would overturn Roe? Gut voting rights?

sigh

[Lazy Daisy]

64. Wasn't your original arguement

Your original point was SC gutting unions today. Unions, the foundation of economic stability for the middle class. It's not just Republicans who are tearing them apart. Our choice in candidates matters.

NONE of the Democratic candidates will appoint SC justices who would overturn Roe v Wade, gut voting rights.

[randys1]

66. So Hillary would appoint a union buster? What in anything she has done would lead to that?

[senz]

67. Hillary's SC would be VERY Wall Street-friendly

which means anti-American people.

But you know that by now.

[randys1]

69. And she is ten thousand times better than any con, you know that by now as well.

[senz]

73. She serves Wall Street and Wall Street is her sponsor.

She could care less about you, me, and millions of ordinary Americans.

[cascadiance]

100. That you leave out the concern about SC justices supporting corporate personhood...

... and who would be most apt to nominate justices against that judicial activist (or actually court clerk activist!) judicial "precedent" is what is most of concern to many Americans who don't want our system bought and paid for by those "corporate persons".

Bernie seems best positioned to pick justices that will do the people's will rather than the corporate world's will for that criteria, and prevent bad decisions like Citizen's United and Hobby Lobby profiting from that crap in the future!

[Trajan]

103. Hillary has a number of outstanding chits she may wanna cash in

She has friends ... Lots of friends at the top ...

Friends at the top of PP ...
Friends at the top of some unions ...

MoveOn was a lengthy, member based calculus ... NOT an edict from the boss ....

[BooScout]

5. ...

[img][/img]

[one_voice]

85. .

[BooScout]

96. ...

[img][/img]

[onecaliberal]

7. The difference is clear.

Planned parenthood is an endorsement from cronies.
MoveOn is an endorsement based on an actual vote of its members and only did so after a 2/3 majority was met.

[seabeyond]

8. The difference, support Sanders and supports Clinton. I refuse validation, justification for war on

women, Democratic style. Period. End of conversation. No justification.

[blackspade]

54. There is no "Democratic style" war on women.

[seabeyond]

59. I disagree. When attack on PP resemble RW attack on PP, I say it is Democratic war on women.

you disagree, that is your right.

[redgreenandblue]

68. You compare actual donors of PP voicing their discontent about management going over their heads ...

... to right-wing tactics?



That is some weird notion of Democracy you have.

No one, NO ONE, is entitled to another person's support or donation. What the women (yes, it were mostly women) on the Facebook page did is point out that they might decide to cancel their donation after the PP management threw them a big fat "fuck you". They are absolutely within their right to do that.

While they are totally within their rights to withhold donations, I have to agree that it is a bad strategy. What they should do instead is lobby for the management that played politics at the expense of the people who depend of the services of PP be fired and replaced.

[seabeyond]

83. I compare vile, hateful comments attacking PP, promoting their destruction, excuse for behavior. Yes

[BlueCaliDem]

9. The ONLY difference that matters to Bernie supporters: whoever supports Bernie is idolized.

Whoever supports Hillary Clinton will be vilified.

There. Fixed it for ya.

[NastyRiffraff]

10. +1,000

Yep.

[leftofcool]

12. Yep

[JoePhilly]

24. + 1

[retrowire]

40. not really vilified for me personally

but scrutinized, yes.

because I don't see an honest, good candidate in Hillary, so when she gets an endorsement, I have to read between the lines and figure out what's going on.

because it really doesn't make sense to me, and many others, why anyone would choose Hillary over Bernie.

I'm certain that you'd scrutinize those who endorse people you don't trust as well.

[haikugal]

58. That is why we have primaries, right?

Very well said and I agree completely. When you look at who does the endorsing and if they speak with the gravitas of peoples voices or if they speak for people who's opinion is never requested it makes a difference. The questions these kinds of endorsements cause me to ask just make my head hurt...why would I support a candidate who operates this way when I can have an honest candidate that is working for the people, not the PTB.

Change is what we need, change is what we want...that isn't Clinton, that's Bernie.

I don't think they care and I don't think they're listening but I think they're going to be surprised!

[retrowire]

70. exactly, in the end, we all agree and stand by PP

even if some of us won't fund them. we still agree with women's rights.

(disclaimer: the only political thing I have ever contributed to was Bernie and ActBlue)

[Ed Suspicious]

105. +1

[floriduck]

41. As it is for both supporters.

Hill supporters don't want to be bothered by Sanders people. And Sanders supporters don't care what Hill people have to say. That's called election politics and it's been going on longer than any of us have been alive.

[BooScout]

72. +1

[Beaverhausen]

11. What process did MoveOn use?

Thanks!

[Bobbie Jo]

13. Clickety Clickety Click

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[leftofcool]

14. Because they are so scientific and all

[artislife]

16. Actually, if you had been a member you would know.

They sent emails to people who support Move On, which was very pro Clinton in it's infancy.

Dear MoveOn member,

The first votes in the 2016 presidential race will be cast in just 25 days, and we have a very big and important decision to make together: Should MoveOn endorse a presidential candidate in the Democratic primary—and if so, which one?

This decision is in your hands. MoveOn only ever endorses candidates for office by a vote of MoveOn members. It's who we are.

Here’s your official, personal ballot, where you can vote now for your choice—Hillary Clinton, Martin O'Malley, Bernie Sanders, or no endorsement:

www.moveon.org/2016prezendorse

Voting is open now through this Sunday, January 10, at 11:59 p.m. PT (that’s 2:59 a.m. ET Monday morning for you night owls on the east coast). But don't wait—vote right now. We don't want to make this decision without you.

In MoveOn’s 17-year history, we’ve held plenty of endorsement votes, but only twice in presidential primaries—in 2004 and 2008. And only once have members voted together to endorse a candidate.

When MoveOn members voted to endorse Barack Obama in 2008 just before Super Tuesday, we went all in to help him become the nominee and make it to the White House. A MoveOn endorsement means votes, volunteers, fundraising, and enthusiasm heading into the first contests of the election, just weeks away.

If two-thirds—a supermajority—of votes cast by MoveOn members are to support one candidate, we’ll endorse that candidate and get to work right away to elect her or him. And no matter what, we'll work to motivate fellow progressives in the presidential race and other important elections this year.

This is a big decision, maybe the biggest we’ll make all year—and your vote matters. What will our community decide?

This is the link to your official ballot as a MoveOn member—please vote right now:

www.moveon.org/2016prezendorse

Here’s how MoveOn’s 2016 Presidential Primary Endorsement Vote works:

Voting opens today, Thursday, January 7 at 9 a.m. PT and closes Sunday, January 10 at 11:59 pm PT.
Voting is open to anyone who has been a MoveOn member prior to the start of the voting period. While any person may cast a ballot, only the votes of individuals who were MoveOn members prior to the start of the vote will be counted. (If you're getting this email, you're a MoveOn member!)
You may change your vote as many times as you like, but only your final vote will be counted.
MoveOn is its members, and our power lies in taking positions that are consistent with the views of the bulk of the membership, so members can unite and work together to bring about change. To win the 2016 presidential endorsement of MoveOn members, a candidate must earn a supermajority—67%, or, technically, 66.67%—of votes cast. If no candidate hits that threshold, we won’t endorse in the Democratic presidential primary.
If an endorsement is made, we’ll run a 100% positive campaign for that candidate.
No matter the outcome of the vote, we’ve heard loud and clear that MoveOn members of all stripes want us to work to help the Democratic nominee in keeping a Republican out of the White House—and we’ll do that.
We'll announce the results on Tuesday, January 12 after a confirmation of the ballots cast.
Click here to cast your ballot:
www.moveon.org/2016prezendorse

Thanks for all you do.

—Ilya, Victoria, Stephen, Jayne, and the rest of the team

P.S. Now that the new year has begun and the election year is firmly upon us, many progressives are tuning into the race in a whole new way. To learn more about the three Democratic candidates for president and their agendas for the country, visit their websites (we've provided links directly to their issue/agenda pages):

Hillary Clinton
Martin O’Malley
Bernie Sanders

There were protocols in place that it was one person one vote. Tell me this wasn't democratic. After I voted, I got an email thanking me and encouraging me to share the opportunity on social media. Then I received a second email
Thanks for voting in MoveOn's 2016 Presidential Primary Endorsement. Polls are open until 11:59 p.m. PT tomorrow, January 10.

We'll be announcing the results on Tuesday to all MoveOn members.

As a reminder, a candidate must receive greater than two-thirds of votes cast by MoveOn members to earn the endorsement.

In the meantime, can you take a very brief exit poll to tell us why you voted?

Click here to take our (very brief) exit poll.

Your feedback will help communicate to the public and the media the huge role that grassroots progressives are playing in this election, what issues are motivating us, and why we're tuning in.

Thanks for all you do.

—Victoria, Josh, Matt, Corinne, and the rest of the team

Democracy for those who bother to vote.

[Fawke Em]

18. They also confirmed your vote via an emailed exit poll.

There was no "clickety click." It was actually more involved than voting at a ballot box.

Hey wait - don't most voters literally "clickety click" their electronic machine to vote, anyway?

[sufrommich]

19. MoveOn has 3.1 million members. 350,000 voted after

a internet wide campaign by Sanders supporters to sign up and vote. I'd be a lot more impressed if Move On would tell us how many of those voters signed up within the last couple of weeks.

[artislife]

20. Maybe the other members who didn't vote

aren't involved in the political process anymore. I wouldn't like to depend on them for the next few months of the primary season.

I have been a member since 2008. I actually participate in a lot of their events, etc.

[Autumn Colors]

49. I've been a member of MoveOn since the 2000 sElection

I'm a woman, over the age of 50, a lifelong Democrat, vote in every election, and have been a member of MoveOn.org for 15 years.

I voted for them to endorse Bernie Sanders.

Back when I could still afford to donate money to causes and campaigns I believe in (today, I can barely make the bills -- internet service is for work, not a luxury), I used to donate to Planned Parenthood.

In the past, when I was much younger, I relied on them for healthcare. I'm grateful to them for helping guide me when I got pregnant at 19 and chose to have an abortion. However, I'm completely pissed off that they chose to endorse a candidate before the primaries. If I were still in the financial position to make donations to charities, I would have requested that any money I'd donated to PP to be returned.

Why? Universal Healthcare will make Planned Parenthood virtually unnecessary and I believe Bernie is a better candidate than Hillary for many, many other reasons. Sure, Planned Parenthood will probably still exist even after we finally get Univ. Healthcare, but they'll just be one of many, many other healthcare providers ... who receive payment via the Universal Healthcare system (just as they accept health insurance from people who have it now). There are many reasons why someone would rather see a healthcare provider at a nonprofit than one who's in it to get rich ... so they would just be one "heathcare provider" among many others.

Which is better? The candidate who has the back of the reproductive healthcare lifeline for the truly desperate or the one who's going to make the need for such a lifeline obsolete?

[blackspade]

50. If I remember correctly you had to be a member prior to the ballot announcement.

That was why I couldn't vote, I guess my membership lapsed during my last ISP switch.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

90. Somehow, I think deciding who to endorse was more important than whether you were impressed.

At least, that's where MoveOn looks to have expended its efforts.

[Ed Suspicious]

106. 10% of an organization that large is a reasonable sample size. Actually way fucking more than

reasonable size to make inferences. If quality control at a factory pulled 10% of their product for testing, well that would be a giant waste of money and resources.

[Bobbie Jo]

22. Democracy? For those who bother?

Democracy for those who bother to get off their behinds and get to the polls, while putting forth an ACTUAL effort to make sure others do the same. GOTV - emphasis on GET OUT.

I guess I'm still old school in that regard.

Thanks for the c&p just the same.

It's no secret that Sanders supporters rule the internetz. The FB brigade alone is a force to be reckoned with.

Point and click Democracy, convenient as hell.

[seabeyond]

23. "The FB brigade alone is a force to be reckoned with" Especially when attacking women. Nt

[redgreenandblue]

26. I actually looked up the comments on the Planned Parenthood page. Most came from women. nt

[artislife]

25. But why don't h supporters who should be Move on members not bother?

They never seem to bother. Sure they come to post here but that appears to be an anomaly. They secret society themselves only on h websites? They don't show up in droves to see her? Gosh, it's the millennials get accused of being apathetic and not willing to vote and I don't see that at all.

That makes it seem as if there really isn't that much support out there.

[seabeyond]

28. It is irrelevant and a waste of time doing a silly little internet poll. From my perspective and

Why I have yet to vote in any internet poll. For example, knowing Du is skewed in Sanders support, like 85%, I find it to be totally a waste to even bother or consider a Du poll on primary candidates. It says, nor accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Now, Back in the Bushco days, I too played in the internet poll. It was fun and we were well organized. And lookie, Bush won. Meh... Now I simply see it as a waste of time.

[artislife]

29. Why bother to post on the internet?

This is must be a time suck, I see you post a lot.

With a lot of differences in mood and enthusiasm, I might add.

[seabeyond]

33. You do not see a difference voting a poll that means nothing and having conversations?

Firstly.

Second. Hey, I admitted I played in the fun over a decade ago. It doesn't entertain me today.

Third, different strokes for different folks.

[artislife]

34. Seems to be a shared group activity

A massively shared one.

I will take you at your word this is how you go about it.

I like conversation, I like that I have just enlisted a neighbor to go together to the caucus in March and I like to vote for my candidate in a group that asks me who they should endorse.


But I am excited about this election. This is my sport.

[seabeyond]

37. Well, Thank you for taking my word this is how I go about things, anyway.

[blackspade]

61. Not so silly when a major progressive organization wants you to vote...

for who they endorse.
You guys lose these things because you don't think that progressive endorsements matter and therefore don't bother to vote.
But then you complain and exclaim their irrelevancy, citing your own lack of participation.

It's actually kind of fascinating.

[seabeyond]

81. mmmmm. I would imagine it is the same relevance as having a poll on DU. Look, I have already

Cheered Sanders win. Personally, I thought it an endorsement and I was good with Move On choosing Sanders. Why isn't a pat on the back, and a tip of the hat good enough? Why are Sanders people actively trying to dismiss their win?

[Bobbie Jo]

47. I don't know...

I "bothered" to get out and register 346 voters last week at a union event. I got dressed and everything!

Of course I can't speak for other supporters, but I work side by side with many of them. Things like click poll "activism" or FB badgering just aren't on the to-do list.

Old school, I know...

[artislife]

52. Well it seems like new school

can line up around the block to volunteer at a new Bernie Sanders office and click on intenet polls. I can "see" the reality of this. The other stuff, is shrouded in mystery and can only be taken as truth by a leap of faith.

The h supporters seem like Masons...lol.

It's alright, we all will keep doing it like we do.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

91. What union? What was the event?

[SheilaT]

38. I had not even realized I was a member of Move-On

until they sent me an email asking me to vote. Sweet.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

87. Your implication is that Hillary actually won the MoveOn poll.

Do you really think so, Bobbie Jo? Come on, don't be shy. Tell us all how Hillary secretly won the MoveOn ballot. But hang on for a minute--I want to try to find some nitrous before you answer. Fair enough?

[Bobbie Jo]

92. I was going to blow this off

but do tell...

How on earth did you get there from a post that consisted of "Clickety Clickety Click," along with an image of a mouse?

This I gotta see. Take me from point A to point Q here...

[DisgustipatedinCA]

93. It kind of starts and ends with the word "implication", as in, you didn't say it directly.

But I'm oh so curious about what you actually DID mean, if you weren't implying that the vote was rigged. You seem to have the courage of your convictions--let's hear those convictions.

[artislife]

21. See reply 16

It is more actual than fanciful like reply 13.

[in_cog_ni_to]

17. Exactly and same goes for the hollow Leadership ONLY Union endorsements. DFA and MoveOn.org

Both held tightly controlled membership votes and of course, Bernie won 79% in MoveOn.org's and 88% in DFA'S. That's why The Unions don't vote, they know Bernie would win.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Bjornsdotter]

30. I've supported both PP and MoveOn

...only one asked my opinion on who to support.

[Autumn Colors]

56. Exactly! (nt)

[Blue_Adept]

31. They're two completely different entities in just about every way

Even if you donate or are a supporter of PP, it's in no way the same as the "membership" of MoveOn. It's like comparing PP to a union. It just doesn't make sense.

But if it makes people feel happy in their anger and disgust, have at it.

[Eric J in MN]

76. Is anyone a 'member' of Planned Parenthood? NT

NT

[Blue_Adept]

80. That's my point

[blackspade]

43. The difference goes beyond that.

Move-on is inherently a political outfit who's directive is to advocate for progressive policies.
PP is primarily a heath care safety net organization that serves all people, not just progressives, that has a political arm that should be dedicated to maintaining its Federal, state, and local funding to benefit those using their services.
PP with their endorsement not only entered into a divisive primary but have further polarized the conservatives by giving them a ready made avenue of attack. Instead of political advocacy for their one cause they will now have to defend themselves as a partisan organization.

[Hekate]

46. Bull

[Beacool]

79. Their air of moral superiority is such a bore.

Every endorsement that is not for their guy is treated with suspicion and disrespect. They need to get our of their bubble.

[99Forever]

94. Truth hurts, huh?

[tk2kewl]

48. also mirrors how each candidate views government

[zentrum]

55. Bingo.

[avaistheone1]

57. Correct

Thank you

[gordyfl]

62. MoveOn Asked Me to Cast My Vote

I doubt if they knew beforehand how I was going to vote. I voted for Bernie. I passed it on to two others and don't know if they voted. 79% is pretty impressive for a candidate they say is unelectable.

[senz]

63. Democracy vs. Elitism.

aka democracy vs. oligarchy.

What this election is all about.

[Beacool]

71. Nope, the main difference is that one group didn't endorse Sanders and therefore the drama.

Ahhh, the disingenuousness and hypocrisy never ends.....

[senz]

74. PP and MoveOn have the same constituency.

PP unilaterally chose one over the other. MoveOn is letting us vote.

Now I can see where you stand. Looks very Republican to me.

[Beacool]

77. Your comment looks very Socialist to me.

The same collective mentality.....

[senz]

89. Beacool, back in the 50s, 60s, 70s we called it democracy

then your boy Reagan redefined things.

And look where it got us.

[Beacool]

95. Sorry, I'm a bit young to remember those decades.

As for Reagan, I couldn't stand the senile SOB.

[senz]

97. So this is why we read and research and study history.

Believe it or not, this country was founded as a democracy.

Now why don't you look up the terms "democracy" and "oligarchy" and "plutocracy?"

Your comments about Reagan are directed solely to his personality. What was wrong with the Reagan administration wasn't the man himself, it was his policy called supply-side economics, aka "trickle down economics."

Read up on that too.

And try to remember this: the presidency is NOT a popularity contest. What matters in presidential elections is what happens to the American people. That is the purpose of democratic government: to secure the rights of the people. (I got that from the Declaration of Independence. Why don't you look it up and find my source?)

Our form of government is very "collective."

[Beacool]

98. Save the condescending remarks for someone else.

My major in college was Political Science. I'm fully aware about the damage that Reagan inflicted on the nation. Ergo, my previous comment.

[senz]

99. I don't think it's possible to cut through

the posturing and ad hominems to reach anything like real conversation. Just lobbing missiles back and forth does not interest me. Nor does ego preening about age and education level, etc. That sure as hell is not why I'm here.

[Beacool]

101. Neither am I interested in trading insults with Sanders' supporters.

Have a nice day.

[Bjornsdotter]

78. Not so...

Background...I'm 55, female, and a business owner. I have supported PP every year since 1978. Some years I was able to donate more than other years, but I have donated every year.

My problem, and yes I do have a problem with the PP endorsement, is that they have never endorsed during the primary season. They have always waited to endorse after we have chosen our nominee. This year they changed. Was it because Hillary lost the nomination in 2008 and they didn't want to see it happen again? Was it because of the ties between the Hillary camp and PP Richards and her daughter Lily Adams? Why now?

In my opinion there was a reason and it wasn't because MOM & BS are against woman and their issues. I think PP thought we would all be on board....I think they got quite a surprise.

Sour grapes...not at all. I will still donate to PP; but I have every right to tell them they should have waited to endorse after the primaries, as they have done for every other election season.

[Beacool]

82. I think that it's insulting to PP to think that they would endorse Hillary because of Lily Adams.

Why is it so hard for some of Sanders' supporters to accept that Hillary is the preferred candidate of some organizations/ I'm not throwing a fit because MoveOn endorsed Sanders. Frankly, I don't really care who endorses him. I'm a Hillary supporter all the way and would only vote for Sanders in the unlikely event that he was the nominee. The constant conspiracy theories about every group that supports Hillary is tiresome.

[Bjornsdotter]

88. It's called an uncomfortable

....association in business.

I deal with numerous municipalities and government agencies. This type of association can be problematic when something goes against standard procedure. In my business there would have to be full disclosure before the deal was finalized.

Never endorsing during the primary season before yet changing this year....why. Why the change in timing?

The difference between PP & MoveOn is that that MoveOn had their members vote and PP did not. If they had set up a vote similar to MoveON and Hillary won I don't think there would have been an issue.

[Ferd Berfel]

86. Exactly the same scenario witheh UNION endorsements

That's why the Hillary union endorsements are just propaganda - don't mean anything . THe rank-and-file
Will still vote for Bernie

[senz]

102. Yep. Top-down authoritarianism vs. bottom-up democracy.

Never-ending battle.