I am going to continue to speak up and out about sexism, every. single. time.

[seabeyond]

i see it.

yup.

this last week, culminating with an OP in meta had me considering. and yet, the number of people that spoke up that though they may not get into the threads, they appreciate those that call out sexism. the number of pms i get from posters thanking me for speaking out and who are supporting us. even in silent appreciation.







thank you du members that are opposed, for the time in reflection.

[Little Star]

1. I have made a promise to myself to speak up every time I see...

sexism and any other kind of bigotry.

I stand with you seabeyond and with all the others who also speak up.

Mighty oaks from little acorns grow

[seabeyond]

2. Mighty oaks from little acorns grow

[Little Star]

4. And they are beautiful too!

[seabeyond]

6. i have a massive one in my front yard. i wish i could post a picture.

huge.... and has offered shade thru out the hot summers for all those years of the kids growing up and nieces and nephews over here to play.

[gollygee]

3. Me too

And I agree about not wanting to support DU until and unless they make some kind of clear statement or policy or something, but OTOH there are enough people here who would vote to hide any post by anyone they associated with HOF that I like the idea of having 15 spots on my jury blacklist.

[seabeyond]

5. i am the fool. lol. and that is cool.

i do not do any of that. black list, ignore.

BUT... if i have 20 hides, then anyone can see what is hidden. and i do not have any qualms with any post i put out. i have had that happen in the past, where there was a campaign to get posts hidden. i ten to glass half full. and i appreciate the many people that did not buy into it and sent me pms telling me about alerts that were silly, and not hidden.

i am willing to take my chances.

and my star can go away in august.

and yes, the administration can do some tweaking.

we are.... democrats... after all.

[redqueen]

7. Yep, same here.

A small handful of women and their dozens of male supporters have failed to convince me that I'm 'not helping the cause' or 'doing more harm than good'.

And the mocking and labeling from the worst of the worst makes me that much more resolute.

[seabeyond]

8. mocking and labeling from the worst of the worst makes me that much more resolute.

it really does. looking at the history of women, and all they endured speaking out, at a time when women really were not in a conducive environment to be able to do that, and have the strength and support to do that, really tells me this is our time right now to not be quiet, "nice", embracing oppression.

[chervilant]

14. Most of the folks on my IL

are there because of their sexism and/or misogyny. I don't ever want to see their vitriol again.

[seabeyond]

17. that would probably be the healthiest thing to do. i tend to just ignore them

when i see there is not an honesty in exchange.

but, your way, is probably much more healthy.

[chervilant]

20. I've learned

that the worst of the worst double down in their efforts to deny their "ism" and minimize or denigrate my concerns. Sad that so many are so entrenched in their ism that they cannot see that it damages us all.

If you have not already done so, I recommend that you read "The Mermaid and the Minotaur" by Dorothy Dinnerstein. Our entire species suffers from this wound.

[niyad]

9. same here

[seabeyond]

11. always, with you....

you say so little but always there, and so damn powerful. in your OPs. in your voice. with such grace. your consistency. your perseverance.


i may have it all wrong in RL. but on the board... that is how i see you.

[niyad]

13. I think I am going to cry, sea. thank you for those beautiful words. in RL, pretty much the same,

perhaps even more outspoken. have been fighting in this war for many decades now, and not about to quit now, when things seem to be getting even worse.

[seabeyond]

15. you have earned it.

[niyad]

18. what a beautiful image. keeping this!!

[MadrasT]

16. Thank you niyad. You are appreciated.

[niyad]

19. and thank you as well.

[MadrasT]

10. I'm with you seabeyond.

I have learned to stay out of the mega-flame subthreads that go back-and-forth ad nauseum, but I will also continue to speak out when I feel like I need to.

[seabeyond]

12. i hear ya. and i hear ya.

i do pick and choose when i want to speak out in meta, and where i want to go with it.

[ismnotwasm]

21. I have a hard time tolerating meta

In fact, after a break from DU, I still had a hard time tolerating DU. So in general, I stay here. But DU a habit for me, and speaking out is the right thing to do.

The feminist thought police are out in full force, but I so keep in mind they're reflecting much of the Internet as well, the Reddit communities for instance. The creeper comments and the MRA blogs. The shit is being called on and called out all over the place, so there's no reason not to do the same here.

It's the generalized dumbassness that shocks me on occasion. Especially from people old enough to know better, those who claim experience with gendered issues, then go right ahead and sound embarrassingly ignorant.
The 'avoid the issue and attack the poster tactic' is one I see you, RedQueen, and BB get a lot. It's weird, the people who do it seem to have larger problems than a simple opinion on gender issues

[seabeyond]

25. they're reflecting much of the Internet as well, the Reddit communities

so much of the thinking is this. it would take a ten page post to address all the twist and turns to justify some of the points. a real waste of time.

i agree.

[MadrasT]

28. "avoid the issue and attack the poster"

As soon as I realize that is an individual's style of conversation and method of debate, I stop interacting with them. I may still occasionally make one reply to them to make a point, but I will not engage in any kind of back-and-forth with them.

Circular arguments and personal attacks do not amuse me.

[redqueen]

33. That's a good idea. nt

[seabeyond]

34. i agree. i do the same. i will put out my post and stop after that. not reply. nt

[Texasgal]

22. I've been trying to stay out of the flames

and I agree, sexism and misogyny should be pointed out at every opportunity.

I really appreciate you sea, and others who don't back down. Thank you.

[seabeyond]

26. "should be pointed out at every opportunity." OK.

for you. lol... you convinced me.

honestly, every time we have one of these dustups enough people start speaking out that tells me it is worth it. as that other thread should see, in honesty, there are enough people in it alone saying that they appreciate us feminist calling out the sexism. if they are all about NOT making du suck, the solution would be even when a feminist speaks up and out, the reply should equally be in respect and let it go. we ALL have a part in creating du. we are a part. regardless if others do not want us to be. and it works the other way, also. not so hard.







somewhere along christmas i fell in love with my images, lol.

[peasant one]

23. Keep on speaking up

Dear seabeyond,
Keep on pointing out sexist comments. I appreciate them. I am a better person because of DU -I have learned a great deal from DU but particularly from the discussion that ensues when someone calls another out on a sexist, racist, or homophobic comment.
Thanks,

[seabeyond]

27. i know i have learned a lot also. and i did it being called on stuff. AND

it was not even painful, lol. pretty simple.

thanks one....

[DonCoquixote]

24. speak out

Because frankly, this place NEEDS the gadflies. Unlike some people who did deserve crap, you base your stuff on fact, and somehow , unlike weaker people, manage to stay within the never-read tos

[seabeyond]

29. gadfly? lol.

i had to look it up.






i dont know if this post is a compliment or an insult. lol. BUT... looking at what a gadfly is, i am thinkin', good or not, seems to be appropriate, lol. i do not know whether to embrace or reject. really, i am laughing here cause i am so fuckin' honest with me. i know i am embracing and saying, yup.

this was cute.

[DonCoquixote]

30. well

Socrates called himself that when they were railroading him in Athens (that is where the term came from), so consider it a compliment.

[DonCoquixote]

31. or to make a more clear bent

"well behaved women rarely make history."

[DonCoquixote]

32. I did not mean it negative

as that image puts it, but considering said fly is stinging a horses ass, it can fit...I can think of a few horses asses that need a few gadflies around here.

[seabeyond]

35. oh, i just thought it was fun, your post. and reading what it meant...

and how it progressed in my mind.

actually, i appreciate the opportunity with it.

thanks don

[Rowdyboy]

37. In my book, being called a "gadfly" is an incredible compliment. My definition of one is former

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Morse

senator Wayne Morse of Oregon, one of my all time political heroes. He was elected to the senate as a Republican during World War II, became independent in 1952, and a Democrat in 1955. He was one of the strongest anti-war senators in history (one of only two votes against the Gulf of Tonkin resolution which authorized LBJ to speed up the war in Viet Nam.

There's even a stage play about Morse titled "American Gadfly"

Gadflies tend to irritate the establishment beyond toleration, poking and prodding and making them pay for their abuse of power.

I'd be proud.....

[Rowdyboy]

38. One of my all time political heroes was Wayne Morse of Oregon whose nickname was

the "gadfly of the Senate" back in the 1960's. He's one of two men with the guts to buck LBJ and oppose the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution which really got us into Viet Nam. I'd be proud of the title.

[Rowdyboy]

36. I am extremely controversy averse....I avoid confrontation in general. My dad was an alcoholic and

I'm a "peacemaker" by nature. Yes, I'm totally unrealistic and expect way too much but DU is supposed to be (in my mind) my safe harbor where I can feel comfortable among like-minded people.

But I hate sexism and bigotry and I despise bullying even more and this week has been unusually nasty for many women (and their male allies) on this board.

I can't promise I'll always be here because I get mad and just step back. After 11 years as a member, sometimes I just lurk for days. But I really do appreciate all of you who won't back down and-when I'm here-I have your backs.

[BainsBane]

39. On women vs women and speaking out

This whole controversy about some feminists "insisting on what should outrage others" has led me into some strange discussions in which I could not convince the other party to engage in what I consider thoughtful discourse. The animosity was so intense by some of the women angry at vocal feminists on this site. I find myself confused by that anger. It bothers me more from other women, particularly when they claim to be feminists, than from men. In one case, I was able to figure out where someone was coming from and had some meaningful dialog, but in the others the vitriol was so intense, I couldn't get them to engage in a productive discussion. My own view is that all of us who identify with feminism must want to see women's rights advanced. Why must it be so difficult to establish dialog?

[MineralMan]

40. I support you and others who do that 100%.

Thanks!

[seabeyond]

41. thank you MM

that really does mean something.

i appreciate it.

[BainsBane]

42. Thanks, MM

[BainsBane]

43. Y'all, the admins abolished Meta

Wise move, in my opinion.

[seabeyond]

44. agreed. most disgusting of forums....

i hope we see a few more tweaks.

i have it just off line. how do you know they just are not working on it.

[BainsBane]

45. I don't

I guess I assumed. They established an Ask the Administrators forum and now Meta is gone.

[seabeyond]

46. yes. i was not getting the ask admin at the point of me posting. you are right.

they have taken meta. i think that is a good thing. a very very good think.

[BainsBane]

47. See this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125913

I think I helped break it by being the target of the recent witch hunt.

[DURHAM D]

48. Meta is closed. Wow. Perhaps it is in honor of International Women's Day.

March 8th - check for an event near you -

http://www.internationalwomensday.com/default.asp

Join facebook/internationalwomensday

"The story of women's struggle for equality belongs to no single feminist nor to any one organization but to the collective efforts of all who care about human rights" Gloria Steinem

[seabeyond]

49. amen to both. thanks for the link. i will check it out. nt