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boston bean

(36,218 posts)
Tue May 8, 2012, 09:31 PM May 2012

TRENDING: Clinton addresses 'au naturale' moment

CNN) – Hillary Clinton laughed off the perpetual conversation over her appearance that landed in the spotlight once again Monday when a picture of her sporting glasses sans make-up made the rounds on the internet.

"I feel so relieved to be at the stage I'm at in my life right now," the secretary of state told CNN Foreign Affairs Correspondent Jill Dougherty in an interview. "Because you know if I want to wear my glasses I'm wearing my glasses. If I want to wear my hair back I'm pulling my hair back. You know at some point it's just not something that deserves a lot of time and attention."


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/08/clinton-addresses-au-naturale-moment/




38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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TRENDING: Clinton addresses 'au naturale' moment (Original Post) boston bean May 2012 OP
K&R for Hillary! nt gateley May 2012 #1
This is why we don't have nice things Crow73 May 2012 #2
nice things? nt seabeyond May 2012 #5
It's a cute, ironic play on an old cliche. The "nice things" in the tblue37 May 2012 #20
lol. that is great. appreciate it. i didnt eve kinda connect that. nt seabeyond May 2012 #26
point. not something that deserves ANY time and attention so seabeyond May 2012 #3
I think this is great, but also, as a 68-year-old woman, I just can't believe that this is enough May 2012 #4
It's just so god damned ridiculous isn't it? boston bean May 2012 #6
Nice. MadrasT May 2012 #7
It's so obviously a double standard, that I am suprised a boston bean May 2012 #8
"It's like we're going backwards." it isnt LIKE. its beyond backward. new territory. seabeyond May 2012 #9
Very true. Thanks. JDPriestly May 2012 #17
sigh... seabeyond May 2012 #18
I think she looks fantastic! hedda_foil May 2012 #10
agreed. on another thread someone asked, would they put up a repug woman picture. the point seabeyond May 2012 #11
where was the other post. I didn't see it and can't find it. is it on DU? nt boston bean May 2012 #22
getting the link i see it was put albright or rice picture. seabeyond May 2012 #25
Great pic of her IMO: I like her more than ever because of it struggle4progress May 2012 #12
i know you are being supportive but it isnt about if she looks fine or not seabeyond May 2012 #13
I didn't say anything about how she looked: I said that it was a great pic and struggle4progress May 2012 #14
cool. thanks for correcting me struggle. nt seabeyond May 2012 #16
what would make you like her more because of that picture? boston bean May 2012 #23
speaking for myself iverglas May 2012 #28
I don't disagree boston bean May 2012 #29
framed in terms of age iverglas May 2012 #30
I do not find it newsworthy at all. boston bean May 2012 #31
everything a prominent personage does is newsworthy iverglas May 2012 #38
just because it is noteworthy, does not mean it is newsworthy. even biting their tongue, which they seabeyond May 2012 #33
" a decade or so ago, even the newsrooms knew they had a line." redqueen May 2012 #35
i have looked at this and thought about it. seabeyond May 2012 #37
I agree that the positive focus on (almost always women's) appearance is problematic, redqueen May 2012 #32
i dont know how many threads at the beginning of the term i walked in and said, she is smart seabeyond May 2012 #34
Yep. redqueen May 2012 #36
Good for her! Free at last! JDPriestly May 2012 #15
It really has nothing to do with age. boston bean May 2012 #21
How is this news? The obsession with her appearance is sexist. McCamy Taylor May 2012 #19
I'm at that age and I say more power to her. She is GREAT! teewrex May 2012 #24
A-fricken-men! Lugnut May 2012 #27

tblue37

(65,218 posts)
20. It's a cute, ironic play on an old cliche. The "nice things" in the
Wed May 9, 2012, 12:15 AM
May 2012

Last edited Wed May 9, 2012, 01:34 PM - Edit history (1)

original refers to nice stuff in the house, and the parents are telling the kids that their bad behavior wrecks such things, so that is why "We can't have nice things."

The twist here is to imply that the "nice things" we cannot have are civil discourse and a meaningful, functional political process. As long as our media obsess about whether an important cabinet official in her 60s is all dolled up before being caught on camera in public, their stupid behavior makes it impossible for us to function as a reasonable society.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
3. point. not something that deserves ANY time and attention so
Tue May 8, 2012, 09:34 PM
May 2012

Why the tuck is the news talking about it. I hear ya.

Not hear job to "look" a certain way for anyone.

enough

(13,255 posts)
4. I think this is great, but also, as a 68-year-old woman, I just can't believe that this is
Tue May 8, 2012, 09:35 PM
May 2012

still an issue.

Glad Hillary's doing it and talking about it. Sorry so many women still have to live under this relentless orthodoxy of appearance.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
6. It's just so god damned ridiculous isn't it?
Tue May 8, 2012, 09:37 PM
May 2012

I mean think about it. the woman is out there doing her job. Pretty well, most would say, and she's got to talk about why she isn't wearing make up.

This shit has to end at some point.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
7. Nice.
Tue May 8, 2012, 09:45 PM
May 2012

The "stage of life" she's at should be OK for all women at any stage of life.

Sad that it's "news" but good for her.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
8. It's so obviously a double standard, that I am suprised a
Tue May 8, 2012, 09:50 PM
May 2012

main stream cable station picked up the story and had a reporter ask her about it.

It's like we're going backwards.... I just don't think the question should have ever been presented. No matter how many right wing blogs twitted this crapola.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
9. "It's like we're going backwards." it isnt LIKE. its beyond backward. new territory.
Tue May 8, 2012, 09:59 PM
May 2012

Last edited Tue May 8, 2012, 11:34 PM - Edit history (1)

so gd obsess with womens looks today, like never in the past and everyone thinks they can talk about it. a poster in GD put up judds quote. wait.... gonna get it. it is crazy.


The Conversation about women’s bodies exists largely outside of us, while it is also directed at (and marketed to) us, and used to define and control us. The Conversation about women happens everywhere, publicly and privately. We are described and det,ailed, our faces and bodies analyzed and picked apart, our worth ascertained and ascribed based on the reduction of personhood to simple physical objectification. Our voices, our personhood, our potential, and our accomplishments are regularly minimized and muted.

http://ashleyjudd.com/blog/

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
11. agreed. on another thread someone asked, would they put up a repug woman picture. the point
Tue May 8, 2012, 10:33 PM
May 2012

i doubt clinton cares her picture is in print. she choose to not put on make up. the point is that anyone said ANYTHING to her about whether or not she wore makeup and felt it news worthy

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
13. i know you are being supportive but it isnt about if she looks fine or not
Tue May 8, 2012, 11:10 PM
May 2012

Just to say clearer one more time. It should not be a new story. It should not be mentioned. It should not matter or even be noticed.

Whether she can pull it off or not. She has no obligation to look anyway for anyone.

That being said, the woman has confidence to do this. Which says something in itself.

struggle4progress

(118,224 posts)
14. I didn't say anything about how she looked: I said that it was a great pic and
Tue May 8, 2012, 11:28 PM
May 2012

that I liked her more because of it. It has nothing to do with knee-jerk support: in that pic, she very much reminds me of a certain particular old friend of mine, for whom I happen to have enormous respect. I like the pic

 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
28. speaking for myself
Wed May 9, 2012, 11:10 AM
May 2012

I would like any woman better who chose to reject the cosmetic nonsense that so many women conform to: makeup, hairstyling, high heels ... All of that just reinforces harmful stereotypes -- and a whole lot of it is total crap in other ways (environmentally in particular).

I find it amusing that commentary on Clinton's appearance is so roundly condemned, but all the blather that goes on (including at DU) about how stunning and gorgeous etc. etc. etc. Michelle Obama is, usually when she appears in one of her particularly stereotypically feminine outfits (bare arms, bare shoulders, bare chest and back, flouncy skirts and girly fabrics and colours), it's bad manners to say nay.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
29. I don't disagree
Wed May 9, 2012, 11:47 AM
May 2012

and there's a lot of wrong on DU and society when it comes to sexism/misogyny.

I don't think that takes away from the point I was trying to make throughout this thread, though, right?

I wish Hillary hadn't framed her response with her age.

 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
30. framed in terms of age
Wed May 9, 2012, 11:56 AM
May 2012

Yeah, for sure. It shouldn't be only when we become invisible that we use the invisibility to do what we want. We should do it while we're visible.

I don't think one could expect that her decision to appear makeup-less with glasses would pass unnoticed in the media. It's noticeable, and in fact is noteworthy. It was a deviation from her own consistent past practice and general practice among women in the public eye. Could one name another prominent woman in US politics who appears in public in her natural state? If Pelosi were to trash the hairspray and lipstick and eyeliner, who wouldn't notice?

If Barack Obama wore contacts and kept his hair tinted to its original colour, and one day showed up in hornrims with grey hair grown out, people would comment on that too.

If Clinton had never had trademark hairstyles and worn a makeup mask and eschewed spectacles, that photo wouldn't have been noteworthy.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
31. I do not find it newsworthy at all.
Wed May 9, 2012, 12:14 PM
May 2012

Last edited Wed May 9, 2012, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Something they might say would be newsworthy. Or if someone looked sickly or ill, due to an illness, maybe.....

I don't think we can use Barack Obama as a base point for this, he is a male. He does not have the same limitations or stereotypes applied.

ETA, I read your post as newsworthy, not noteworthy. Either way, I think you meant that it was acceptable for the news to note her appearance.

please let me know if I am missing something. Just trying to work through this.....

 

iverglas

(38,549 posts)
38. everything a prominent personage does is newsworthy
Wed May 9, 2012, 01:55 PM
May 2012

My perspective is that women who play to the stereotype -- the extreme hairstyling, the makeup mask, the porny shoes -- put their own appearance in issue. They are the ones who choose to do that, by significantly altering their appearance to achieve an advantage in public life --or to avoid the disadvantage that would likely come with not doing that, granted. Because yes, unfortunately, any choice a woman makes in this regard is a statement of sorts. A woman can't just "be herself" without it being a statement that she is rejecting what women are expected to be and do, appearance-wise.

That's the world we live in. I would comment on a woman's hyper-unnatural appearance: bleached blonde, heavy make-up, stilletto heels, whatever. Women in the public eye who do that, obviously do it for a reason. They don't expect it to pass unnoticed. What's actually unfortunate is that it would also not pass unnoticed if a woman did not do it from the outset: if a woman entered public life with ungelled hair, unpainted face and flat shoes and just stayed that way. It would be seen as worthy of comment that she chose not to conform to stereotype.

Clinton conformed when she chose not to wear trousers while she was acting the role of helpmeet to the president. She did it every time she had her hair coloured and styled, and painted the makeup on. Her appearance when she chose not to do that was noteworthy because it was a clear and very particular choice that deviated from long practice, and it was newsworthy because she is a prominent personage.

I will still say that it is analogous to a prominent man who had always appeared with significant changes to his natural appearance and then one day didn't -- put on specs, grew out the grey and maybe stopped shaving.

It's just that few men start out in such an altered state. They start out in their natural state and stay that way, as it changes. If women did that too, there wouldn't be anything to note or put in the news.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
33. just because it is noteworthy, does not mean it is newsworthy. even biting their tongue, which they
Wed May 9, 2012, 12:28 PM
May 2012

shouldnt have to, it is over the line. not acceptable. or shouldnt be.

not all things should be turned into news.

if news had actually ignored it, and discussed her job, then they would have taken the higher road. they choose to take the lower. which is consistent today. but a decade or so ago, even the newsrooms knew they had a line.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
35. " a decade or so ago, even the newsrooms knew they had a line."
Wed May 9, 2012, 12:32 PM
May 2012

See, I wasn't even clued in on this stuff at that time. I thought things started moving backwards for women in the 80's...

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
37. i have looked at this and thought about it.
Wed May 9, 2012, 12:40 PM
May 2012

i was in my late teens and twenties in 80's. single. hung out with a lot of men. but then, i was in calif and nv. it seems to me that they were well along side of us. that we were progressing forward. it seemed to start in the mid 90's with the porn and accessibility to porn on the computer. hence, why i see accessibility to porn to be a main issue and feeding in the disrespect. then it seemed like bush and the manly man christian coalition bullshit of manliness/women submissiveness gave a big thumbs up to all this. i think also at the time, a lot of men were losing out. the independence and freedom of women started to really show. not needing to marry. that was a big one i saw.

throw in even more access to harder core porn, bushco proving you are a man mra groups and womens success.

there were things we did wrong too. in the 80's i really saw where women and girls were being taught and promoting we dont need men. we are better than. girls rule, boys druel type attitude. digs at male ego instead of eliminating the action/reaction aspect.

i think it was the early 2000's where men started trying to get their dominance, power and control back. and a real effort to mainstream porn.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
32. I agree that the positive focus on (almost always women's) appearance is problematic,
Wed May 9, 2012, 12:27 PM
May 2012

but we can't, IMO, expect to have every vestige of patriarchal bullshit wiped away at once.

Most people see such focus as nice, and complimentary, and never consider the consequences of such constant reinforcement of compliance with gender crap and patriarchal ideas about beauty.

Pointing out that the focus on appearance is in itself counterproductive would seem to be a good way to start easing people away from such nonsense. It's much easier to see it as wrong when people use women's appearance as a way to insult them, its trickier when the attention is perceived as being positive.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
34. i dont know how many threads at the beginning of the term i walked in and said, she is smart
Wed May 9, 2012, 12:30 PM
May 2012

capable, accomplished. why are we focusing on her looks.

i gave up.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
15. Good for her! Free at last!
Tue May 8, 2012, 11:30 PM
May 2012

It's a hassle putting on make-up every morning before work. It's so great to retire and only put it on when you want to. I think it is better for my dry skin if I don't wear it.

For a woman, there are many advantages to being older in my experience -- provided your health is reasonably good.

boston bean

(36,218 posts)
21. It really has nothing to do with age.
Wed May 9, 2012, 12:17 AM
May 2012

It's about the double standard.

A young female politician shouldn't have to worry about putting on make up either. And for sure hell, it shouldn't be a news story.

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
19. How is this news? The obsession with her appearance is sexist.
Wed May 9, 2012, 12:02 AM
May 2012

Bill appears in public all the time without makeup. Where is the press?

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