History of Feminism
Related: About this forumTRENDING: Clinton addresses 'au naturale' moment
"I feel so relieved to be at the stage I'm at in my life right now," the secretary of state told CNN Foreign Affairs Correspondent Jill Dougherty in an interview. "Because you know if I want to wear my glasses I'm wearing my glasses. If I want to wear my hair back I'm pulling my hair back. You know at some point it's just not something that deserves a lot of time and attention."
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/08/clinton-addresses-au-naturale-moment/
gateley
(62,683 posts)Crow73
(257 posts)These people have nothing to do.
CNN the TMZ of DC.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)tblue37
(65,218 posts)Last edited Wed May 9, 2012, 01:34 PM - Edit history (1)
original refers to nice stuff in the house, and the parents are telling the kids that their bad behavior wrecks such things, so that is why "We can't have nice things."
The twist here is to imply that the "nice things" we cannot have are civil discourse and a meaningful, functional political process. As long as our media obsess about whether an important cabinet official in her 60s is all dolled up before being caught on camera in public, their stupid behavior makes it impossible for us to function as a reasonable society.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Why the tuck is the news talking about it. I hear ya.
Not hear job to "look" a certain way for anyone.
enough
(13,255 posts)still an issue.
Glad Hillary's doing it and talking about it. Sorry so many women still have to live under this relentless orthodoxy of appearance.
boston bean
(36,218 posts)I mean think about it. the woman is out there doing her job. Pretty well, most would say, and she's got to talk about why she isn't wearing make up.
This shit has to end at some point.
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)The "stage of life" she's at should be OK for all women at any stage of life.
Sad that it's "news" but good for her.
boston bean
(36,218 posts)main stream cable station picked up the story and had a reporter ask her about it.
It's like we're going backwards.... I just don't think the question should have ever been presented. No matter how many right wing blogs twitted this crapola.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Last edited Tue May 8, 2012, 11:34 PM - Edit history (1)
so gd obsess with womens looks today, like never in the past and everyone thinks they can talk about it. a poster in GD put up judds quote. wait.... gonna get it. it is crazy.
The Conversation about womens bodies exists largely outside of us, while it is also directed at (and marketed to) us, and used to define and control us. The Conversation about women happens everywhere, publicly and privately. We are described and det,ailed, our faces and bodies analyzed and picked apart, our worth ascertained and ascribed based on the reduction of personhood to simple physical objectification. Our voices, our personhood, our potential, and our accomplishments are regularly minimized and muted.
http://ashleyjudd.com/blog/
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)You always have me on such a roller coaster.
you are welcome.
hedda_foil
(16,371 posts)It's a great photo. She looks so happy and relaxed.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i doubt clinton cares her picture is in print. she choose to not put on make up. the point is that anyone said ANYTHING to her about whether or not she wore makeup and felt it news worthy
boston bean
(36,218 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)It is in pepperbears? Thread in gd
struggle4progress
(118,224 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Just to say clearer one more time. It should not be a new story. It should not be mentioned. It should not matter or even be noticed.
Whether she can pull it off or not. She has no obligation to look anyway for anyone.
That being said, the woman has confidence to do this. Which says something in itself.
struggle4progress
(118,224 posts)that I liked her more because of it. It has nothing to do with knee-jerk support: in that pic, she very much reminds me of a certain particular old friend of mine, for whom I happen to have enormous respect. I like the pic
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)boston bean
(36,218 posts)iverglas
(38,549 posts)I would like any woman better who chose to reject the cosmetic nonsense that so many women conform to: makeup, hairstyling, high heels ... All of that just reinforces harmful stereotypes -- and a whole lot of it is total crap in other ways (environmentally in particular).
I find it amusing that commentary on Clinton's appearance is so roundly condemned, but all the blather that goes on (including at DU) about how stunning and gorgeous etc. etc. etc. Michelle Obama is, usually when she appears in one of her particularly stereotypically feminine outfits (bare arms, bare shoulders, bare chest and back, flouncy skirts and girly fabrics and colours), it's bad manners to say nay.
boston bean
(36,218 posts)and there's a lot of wrong on DU and society when it comes to sexism/misogyny.
I don't think that takes away from the point I was trying to make throughout this thread, though, right?
I wish Hillary hadn't framed her response with her age.
iverglas
(38,549 posts)Yeah, for sure. It shouldn't be only when we become invisible that we use the invisibility to do what we want. We should do it while we're visible.
I don't think one could expect that her decision to appear makeup-less with glasses would pass unnoticed in the media. It's noticeable, and in fact is noteworthy. It was a deviation from her own consistent past practice and general practice among women in the public eye. Could one name another prominent woman in US politics who appears in public in her natural state? If Pelosi were to trash the hairspray and lipstick and eyeliner, who wouldn't notice?
If Barack Obama wore contacts and kept his hair tinted to its original colour, and one day showed up in hornrims with grey hair grown out, people would comment on that too.
If Clinton had never had trademark hairstyles and worn a makeup mask and eschewed spectacles, that photo wouldn't have been noteworthy.
boston bean
(36,218 posts)Last edited Wed May 9, 2012, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)
Something they might say would be newsworthy. Or if someone looked sickly or ill, due to an illness, maybe.....
I don't think we can use Barack Obama as a base point for this, he is a male. He does not have the same limitations or stereotypes applied.
ETA, I read your post as newsworthy, not noteworthy. Either way, I think you meant that it was acceptable for the news to note her appearance.
please let me know if I am missing something. Just trying to work through this.....
iverglas
(38,549 posts)My perspective is that women who play to the stereotype -- the extreme hairstyling, the makeup mask, the porny shoes -- put their own appearance in issue. They are the ones who choose to do that, by significantly altering their appearance to achieve an advantage in public life --or to avoid the disadvantage that would likely come with not doing that, granted. Because yes, unfortunately, any choice a woman makes in this regard is a statement of sorts. A woman can't just "be herself" without it being a statement that she is rejecting what women are expected to be and do, appearance-wise.
That's the world we live in. I would comment on a woman's hyper-unnatural appearance: bleached blonde, heavy make-up, stilletto heels, whatever. Women in the public eye who do that, obviously do it for a reason. They don't expect it to pass unnoticed. What's actually unfortunate is that it would also not pass unnoticed if a woman did not do it from the outset: if a woman entered public life with ungelled hair, unpainted face and flat shoes and just stayed that way. It would be seen as worthy of comment that she chose not to conform to stereotype.
Clinton conformed when she chose not to wear trousers while she was acting the role of helpmeet to the president. She did it every time she had her hair coloured and styled, and painted the makeup on. Her appearance when she chose not to do that was noteworthy because it was a clear and very particular choice that deviated from long practice, and it was newsworthy because she is a prominent personage.
I will still say that it is analogous to a prominent man who had always appeared with significant changes to his natural appearance and then one day didn't -- put on specs, grew out the grey and maybe stopped shaving.
It's just that few men start out in such an altered state. They start out in their natural state and stay that way, as it changes. If women did that too, there wouldn't be anything to note or put in the news.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)shouldnt have to, it is over the line. not acceptable. or shouldnt be.
not all things should be turned into news.
if news had actually ignored it, and discussed her job, then they would have taken the higher road. they choose to take the lower. which is consistent today. but a decade or so ago, even the newsrooms knew they had a line.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)See, I wasn't even clued in on this stuff at that time. I thought things started moving backwards for women in the 80's...
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i was in my late teens and twenties in 80's. single. hung out with a lot of men. but then, i was in calif and nv. it seems to me that they were well along side of us. that we were progressing forward. it seemed to start in the mid 90's with the porn and accessibility to porn on the computer. hence, why i see accessibility to porn to be a main issue and feeding in the disrespect. then it seemed like bush and the manly man christian coalition bullshit of manliness/women submissiveness gave a big thumbs up to all this. i think also at the time, a lot of men were losing out. the independence and freedom of women started to really show. not needing to marry. that was a big one i saw.
throw in even more access to harder core porn, bushco proving you are a man mra groups and womens success.
there were things we did wrong too. in the 80's i really saw where women and girls were being taught and promoting we dont need men. we are better than. girls rule, boys druel type attitude. digs at male ego instead of eliminating the action/reaction aspect.
i think it was the early 2000's where men started trying to get their dominance, power and control back. and a real effort to mainstream porn.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)but we can't, IMO, expect to have every vestige of patriarchal bullshit wiped away at once.
Most people see such focus as nice, and complimentary, and never consider the consequences of such constant reinforcement of compliance with gender crap and patriarchal ideas about beauty.
Pointing out that the focus on appearance is in itself counterproductive would seem to be a good way to start easing people away from such nonsense. It's much easier to see it as wrong when people use women's appearance as a way to insult them, its trickier when the attention is perceived as being positive.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)capable, accomplished. why are we focusing on her looks.
i gave up.
It's more than an uphill battle. It seems more like trying to fight while scaling a cliff.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's a hassle putting on make-up every morning before work. It's so great to retire and only put it on when you want to. I think it is better for my dry skin if I don't wear it.
For a woman, there are many advantages to being older in my experience -- provided your health is reasonably good.
boston bean
(36,218 posts)It's about the double standard.
A young female politician shouldn't have to worry about putting on make up either. And for sure hell, it shouldn't be a news story.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Bill appears in public all the time without makeup. Where is the press?
teewrex
(96 posts)I love the Clinton's more and more
Lugnut
(9,791 posts)Good on Hillary for saying so.