Tough Guise: Violence, Media & the Crisis in Masculinity

[seabeyond]

we have not had this video in our new forum. i think it is good stuff.

[Shankapotomus]

1. bumping

It could stand to be repeated. Kind of shocked this received no attention when first posted.

[seabeyond]

3. i know. love this man and what he is saying. nada. lol. thanks for the relook. nt

[ismnotwasm]

7. Thanks for the bump

I had not seen this and it's excellent

[redqueen]

2. posting this here so i hopefully won't forget to watch it later...

[seabeyond]

4. i love this man. sit down and shut up. this guy is the greatest. k, 9:30. i will continue

listening.

men can say things... ok, men can be heard when they say something.

this man is really awesome. rhetoric against feminist. anti male. what about all the boys.... that are abused by men.

both sexes victims of mens violence.

need men to speak out. seems obvious.

just like if a white person heard racist comment, you would interrupt. isnt your silence a form of consent, complicity?

men who act out in sexist ways will lose status. we will see a radical diminution of abuse.

what will hurt the worst is not the words of enemies, but the silence of our friends.

an awful lot of silence in the mens culture about the ongoing tragedy of the male violence against women and children.

adult men with power, should be the one held accounted for. start prioritizing these issues.

dont need sensitivity training, but leadership training.

pressure and constraints on men. so many men that care deeply about these issues, caring deeply is not enough. we need more men with the guts, courage, strength, the moral integrity to break our complicit silence to stand with women.

owe it to our boys, our sons....



this is all very good redq. thank you

[redqueen]

5. It sure sounds good, thanks for the preview, lol!

I didn't know if you'd be around today or I'd have pm'd it to you

Might have to post that in GD. You know I love him too... Have ever since I saw the video above from tough guise

[seabeyond]

6. i am really not around much...

sigh...

[Shankapotomus]

9. I don't know how you ladies at DU get accused

of being anti-male. Here you are listening, receptive and complementary toward a man speaking about feminism. It's not men you are against, you are just for the kind of male that is very rare today.

It's really not a male against female issue. It's the out-dated male ethos against everyone being involuntarily subjected to it, female or male.

[seabeyond]

11. thanks shank. just another way to try and get us to shut up.

all us women have brothers, fathers, sons and husbands we love. it is a silly accusation. i would say we stand up for men, more than those that make that accusation stand up for men. the authentic self, anyway.

[Shankapotomus]

20. This is kind of an ironic article

considering the content and ads at Huffiington Post but it's more research backing up the video. I don't want to continue to bang the drum of male "victimization" in a feminist group but it seems what makes women victims of men is when men are first sold a cultural bill of goods about hyper-masculinity.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/07/be-a-man-macho-hypermasculine-advertising_n_3230402.html

[BainsBane]

13. From what I can see

Most of the complaints about HOF demonstrate a profound misreading of arguments women here present. I've come to think such misrepresentation is deliberate, but I don't know for sure. This is a great video. Thanks for kicking it.

[redqueen]

14. Ha, yeah, 'misreading'... I was gonna say, you are so very charitable.

When I first posted this video in the men's group, back when DU3 first started and I thought the men's group would be... well... not like it is... I got a lesson in just how very, very wrong I was.

Back before there was a men's group, I advocated for it. I thought it was only fair. I didn't understand why other feminists objected.

Now? TOTALLY get it. Totally.

[seabeyond]

15. yes, i remember what happened when you posted this. and yes, i was very much an advocate

for the mens group, way before it was established, also. against other womens voice.

interesting that, huh?

[redqueen]

17. Yep.

Back then we would have argued that men should be considered feminists and self identify as feminists, too, right?

[seabeyond]

18. yup. but the upside. i have been taught so much in the last year and half that

helps me to understand and see sooooo much more. lol

[redqueen]

19. Yep same here.

I went from a pro-porn, pro-objectification, pro-prostitution feminist to a radical feminist over the past several years.

[ismnotwasm]

8. Also excellent

I love this; I love his presentation and delivery. Thank you.

[ismnotwasm]

10. Here's a group that needs a little 'leadership training'

I harassed Take Back the Night participants #TotalFratMove
Last Saturday night, SUNY Plattsburgh students marching for Take Back the Night were met with victim-blaming, slut-shaming catcalls while passing the AXP fraternity house. As one participant recounted, “I heard ‘sluts’ and ‘Shut up, sluts… There’s dozens of (sexual-abuse) survivors and their allies marching that heard the derogatory comments.”

While the campus is rightly outraged, and the university is investigating the frat, the story remained mostly under the radar. That is, until Total Frat Move–the site notorious for collecting pithy accounts of supposedly typical frat behavior at its most racist, classist, and sexist–decided the event was too hilarious not to report. Roger Dorn wrote:

The march, organized by an international effort called Take Back the Night, must have been a wild scene on Saturday night. The verbally-assaulting epithets [referred to elsewhere as "slut bombs"] were being fired from the lawn of the AXP house…

Poor form, guys. Poor, poor form.

I’m sure Dorn really thinks he’s a good guy. He superficially supports the protestors (who he assumes are all female because, you know, men are never raped), describing them as “one united group of strong women, many of whom have dealt with the very issues they are looking to thwart, walking proudly and purposefully.” But accosting anti-rape activists and survivors isn’t “poor form.” It isn’t uncouth, it isn’t ungentlemanly, it isn’t “offensive.” It’s cruel, and it promotes future violence by trivializing the experiences of survivors.

http://feministing.com/2013/05/03/i-harassed-take-back-the-night-participants-totalfratmove/

[BainsBane]

12. This is really excellent

I wish everyone on this site would watch it.

[seabeyond]

16. like with the conditionings society gives women, men dont get how very hurtful and harmful

these social conditionings are to them and their health. fuck thinking about how it affects women and society, but if they were only selfish enough to see how harmful it is to them, personally.

[ismnotwasm]

21. Kick

[CrispyQ]

22. The media is such a huge part of so many problems in this country.

The point that he makes about how men victims are predominately victims of other male violence, reminds me of Andrea Dworkin's comment:

I think that men are very afraid of other men. That is something that you sometimes try to address in your small groups, as if if you changed your attitudes toward each other, you wouldn't be afraid of each other.

But as long as your sexuality has to do with aggression and your sense of entitlement to humanity has to do with being superior to other people, and there is so much contempt and hostility in your attitudes toward women and children, how could you not be afraid of each other? I think that you rightly perceive -- without being willing to face it politically -- that men are very dangerous: because you are.