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boston bean

(36,221 posts)
Tue May 22, 2012, 04:15 PM May 2012

Gloria Allred: Ambulance Chaser of 'Feminism'

Gloria Allred is a name we're accustomed to seeing in the news, but she's been in the news even more than usual the past few days. First came the reports that she'd be defending John Travolta's accusers, two male massage therapists who have filed a sexual battery lawsuit against the actor. Then, we learned, she'd had a lawsuit filed against her for allegedly stealing those clients from another lawyer; and then came the news of her threatened countersuit over defamation. Tuesday, the cover of New York's two major tabloids featured an entirely different client and case—a woman who's suing her former employer for firing her for being "too hot."

Allred's been in the lawyer business since the mid-'70s, and she's been involved in numerous cases you've probably heard of; she clearly has a knack for this sort of thing. She represented Amber Frey when Scott Peterson was being tried for the murder of his pregnant wife Laci. She represented a case against the Boys Scouts for excluding a girl. She sued the Beverly Hills Friar's Club for its discriminatory policies and won. She also represented Nicole Brown Simpson's family in the O.J. trial, and requested an investigation into the safety of Michael Jackson's kids. She appeared at a press conference with former porn star Ginger Lee in the aftermath of the Anthony Weiner sexting scandal, which Lee said Weiner had coached her to lie about. She stepped in to call for an investigation and punishment for Rush Limbaugh when he called Sandra Fluke a "slut," and worked with Rachel Uchitel and Joslyn James with regard to their alleged affairs with Tiger Woods. Many of her cases are on behalf of women: Some have been involved in relationships, often sexual, with more powerful or wealthy men; some charge that wealthy or powerful men have sexually harassed them.

Allred and her firm also filed the first lawsuit in California to challenge the denial of marriage licenses to same-sex couples as unconstitutional—and kudos for that—but that's probably not the first thing you'd remember when hearing her name in the news yet again (John Travolta, breasts?). Yet Allred claims over and over again on her website to support women and rights causes, calling herself a "fearless advocate for justice and equality," a "tireless crusader against discrimination in all areas of our lives," and a "fearless lawyer, feminist, activist, television and radio commentator, warrior, advocate, and winner." Because she's a woman, working for "victims rights" (usually, those victims are women), and also, because she's a lawyer who may threaten suits over defamation, we are not supposed to criticize. As her website tells us, "Allred has devoted her career to fighting for civil rights across boundaries of gender, race, age, sexual orientation, and social class."

So why do we feel so dubious? There's a growing disconnect between what she says and the cases she takes, for example, this "too hot" nonsense. Can a lawyer call herself a feminist or a pioneer of social justice if she appears to be primarily fighting on behalf of women (or men) who want a payout for some perceived trumped-up injustice, or who have made poor decisions and gotten involved in questionable things and want to evade punishment by the law? Feminism and "social equality of the sexes" requires accountability for our actions; we can't rely on the excuse that just because we're women we've been discriminated against and therefore don't have to own up to mistakes or pay for our crimes. It's also not using sex to make someone else pay—that seems the reverse of feminism, actually.


http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/05/gloria-allred-just-ambulance-chaser-feminism/52656/

Just thought I should add, since people might click to read the entire article, that I posted this for discussion, not because I agree.
19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Gloria Allred: Ambulance Chaser of 'Feminism' (Original Post) boston bean May 2012 OP
It always amazes me sometimes boston bean May 2012 #1
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2021 #19
I like Gloria Allred, but she is sinking herself daily by accepting tabloid cases. I don't know why Sarah Ibarruri May 2012 #2
I did notice on that last case- the anthony weiner boston bean May 2012 #3
Yes, exactly. She needs to quit accepting tabloid cases and start Sarah Ibarruri May 2012 #9
the one that was odd to me, and i really cant remember was having kids there seabeyond May 2012 #10
My first-hand experience with Gloria Allred: calimary May 2012 #4
I have always respected her. boston bean May 2012 #5
That was such a mind-bending time. calimary May 2012 #11
I was 23 and I was intimidated to all hell seabeyond May 2012 #12
thank you so much for your story. i needed to hear this about this woman seabeyond May 2012 #7
Truly. You have to speak up. You HAVE to be loud and pushy and annoying. calimary May 2012 #14
Funny enough - this anecdote takes me full circle. calimary May 2012 #15
isnt that amazing and fun. i found your posts awesome in the walk seabeyond May 2012 #16
By the early 80s things had straightened out a little bit. calimary May 2012 #18
+100000 Thanks for sharing. She'll always be aces with me too. n/t Little Star May 2012 #13
Recent news about Gloria Allred Cindery May 2012 #6
page not found with your link. nt seabeyond May 2012 #8
I've never had an issue with Allred MerryBlooms May 2012 #17

boston bean

(36,221 posts)
1. It always amazes me sometimes
Tue May 22, 2012, 04:30 PM
May 2012

as to what feminists will write about other women..

I don't believe I saw this referenced in the article:

As a single mother, Allred was unable to collect child support from her ex-husband and consequently had to move back in with her parents. While working to support herself and her daughter, her awareness of gender inequality in the workplace grew after noticing the disparity in her salary versus those of her male counterparts. It was also during this time that she became a victim of rape that resulted in a pregnancy. Since abortion was not yet legalized, Allred had to undergo an illegal abortion, which almost killed her. It was this experience that precipitated her lifelong commitment to the fight for reproductive freedom.


http://www.lawcrossing.com/article/1430/Gloria-Allred/#

Response to boston bean (Reply #1)

Sarah Ibarruri

(21,043 posts)
2. I like Gloria Allred, but she is sinking herself daily by accepting tabloid cases. I don't know why
Tue May 22, 2012, 05:00 PM
May 2012

she does this, unless it's the money.

boston bean

(36,221 posts)
3. I did notice on that last case- the anthony weiner
Tue May 22, 2012, 05:12 PM
May 2012

the woman stripper. That she seemed pre-occupied and unprepared. I had anticipated watching the presser, but she wasn't her usual self. It was a really strange press conference.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
10. the one that was odd to me, and i really cant remember was having kids there
Tue May 22, 2012, 09:43 PM
May 2012

as they were showing simulated sex in some way. i do not remember what that was about, but it bothered me.

since, i had read something on her and y perspective shifted from that to admiring. and then of course calimarys post.

calimary

(81,210 posts)
4. My first-hand experience with Gloria Allred:
Tue May 22, 2012, 05:13 PM
May 2012

I was working in the newsroom of a large L.A. station and she was one of five featured commentators whose pieces ran one per day on weekdays. So you'd see her in the building every week when she'd come in to record. There was this state legislator who had been in the news for various political reasons and because he was out there making appearances on local TV and radio and being interviewed, he was making another kind of "news." Word started circulating that he was rather the horndog who'd hit on damn near anything with two X-chromosomes, so if you (female) spotted him in the hallway, go hide or bury yourself in a small crowd of coworkers/witnesses. At one thankfully brief but insane point he actually had me bent over backwards, over the top of a teletype machine in the newsroom - obviously nobody else was around at that hour. Hey, you haven't lived.

Anyway, I had access to Gloria Allred and every now and then we'd exchange pleasantries. I asked to interview her and during the interview she talked about lots of other stories, not just the high-profile ones. Off-mic she told me that everywhere she went, inevitably there'd be one or more women who'd slip her a note as they'd pass each other in the halls - because there was SO MUCH sex discrimination going on. Allred told me she kept this stuff confidential unless the note-passer specifically told her otherwise. She said this happened all the time, all over town. It was during the '70s, a dicey time because women were just starting to get hired in the market, so we collectively brought a whole new ethic and set of considerations into the workplace. It was a genuine "Brave New World" in what had previously been all-male territory. And of the many issues that came up, nobody knew how to handle them. Women generally shared the feeling that even though we'd broken through the hiring barrier through hard work that made it well-deserved, we were still negotiating from a position of weakness. Allred felt solidarity was important for women in the workplace. She felt we had to stand up for ourselves and our rights, and it was always better to stand up together in numbers.

There came a time later on in which I was rather abruptly replaced - by a guy - under some really sexist and humiliating circumstances. It was AWFUL!!! One of the ickiest moments in my then-fledgeling career!!! I forget how, but I saw Gloria Allred again. And I sorta poured out my heart to her about what had happened. She asked to take me to lunch. She treated me to a great meal at an elegant restaurant, sat there at the table and listened to me and comforted me, and talked to me. She shared more of her own experiences and how she felt it was important to be a hard-ass and really fight this shit, especially since women tended not to have as many allies as the men they'd be up against, back then. She said I had a really strong case. She said she would be glad to help me with it if I wanted to pursue it. She also said she would do nothing about it unless I asked her to, and that she'd always keep the details in confidence in any event. She was utterly supportive and graceful, and intense. Sort of always on a mission. And I will NEVER forget that.

It was an awful, miserable, humiliating, nerve-wracking, unstable, isolating, and frightening time for me - especially since, among other indignities, I'd also been threatened with blackballing if I tried to make an issue of it. It was a very vulnerable time in my early career when I felt, professionally, very alone, especially since there weren't many other women on staff there even to talk to. Hell, in the climate inside that station at the time, everybody was nervous and somewhat paranoid. And dammit, she was there for me if I needed her, and even when I decided I'd rather move on and put it behind me. It amazed me that somebody this high-profile would reach out to me like this. She was there at the exact time I needed somebody gutsy willing to stand there with me, even if only for moral support. She never followed up, either, or tried to ambulance-chase. She left it completely alone.

And so it's been, lo these - what? Thirty-some-odd years later? I can't even count that high anymore.

Say what you will about Gloria Allred. She was there for me at a bad time and asked nothing of me. She'll always be aces with me.

calimary

(81,210 posts)
11. That was such a mind-bending time.
Tue May 22, 2012, 10:29 PM
May 2012

I won't bore anybody with more details, except to say - you have not lived until you've had the boss - the guy at the top of the management pyramid - sit you down and tell you "you know, you might not be able to get another job in this city if you..."

AND the offer to buy my silence for a few thousand dollars. When my dad heard that, he said "if you can get three thousand, you can get 50 thousand." It was only my third professional (for pay!) on-air job ever, straight outta college and college radio, and I was 23 and I was intimidated to all hell. I didn't press it. Knowing the people I was dealing with, the likelihood was very real that they could say one word out on the links or in the golf cart, or on the tennis court, into the nearest well-connected pair of ears, and I could very well see my career grounded before it had even had a chance to soar. When the situation had begun looking ominous in the weeks previous, I'd found another job so I was able to jump rather than being pushed, and landed well out of range of all that. Which, back then, was really the only option you had - find another gig as quickly as you can, and get the hell outta there! I think not too much has changed, if you really wanna know.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
12. I was 23 and I was intimidated to all hell
Tue May 22, 2012, 10:37 PM
May 2012

as i was reading i was thinking betcha not a lot has changed. this is same experience. but decided you saying back then, i started having hope with the laws that things have changed. as i was thinking about the few times i have had situations. and thru intimidation, a young women chooses to walk away.

but then i got to this

" I think not too much has changed, if you really wanna know. "

and the way my mind was going.... it fit right in, in an odd kinda way.

i didnt think your story boring at all. i love the time you put in it.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
7. thank you so much for your story. i needed to hear this about this woman
Tue May 22, 2012, 09:26 PM
May 2012

and to remember why it is so damn important to speak up.

thanks.

calimary

(81,210 posts)
14. Truly. You have to speak up. You HAVE to be loud and pushy and annoying.
Tue May 22, 2012, 11:12 PM
May 2012

You HAVE to get in their faces and make them miserable and force them to go looking for the Maalox bottle the instant your name comes up or your face and/or voice comes wafting over the airwaves. I had a friend who wound up in a discrimination lawsuit against CNN, and she determined that when it came time to go to court, she wanted the lawyer they dreaded seeing at the opposing table: "who do they LEAST want to see across the table from them? Well, that's who I want to represent me!" And indeed, she never worked again. But the size of the settlement, I'm told, made it unnecessary anyway.

Anybody remember Christine Craft? She was no gretchen carlson (actually, she had a BRAIN!) or meGYN kelly (cue the eyelashes!) and she was NOT unattractive. She just wasn't some blonde bimbo. She worked for a TV station in Kansas City MO as a news anchor and she was really good. And one day she got demoted to reporter because some focus group decided she "too old, too unattractive, and not sufficiently deferential to men." Never mind that her presence helped lift that station's evening newscast from third place to first. That was a shot heard round the country, I'll tell ya. EVERY woman I knew in the news biz was all over it. She left and went back out to Santa Barbara where she'd lived before, and soon enough, she sued for age and sex discrimination. QUITE a woman. Now there was a pioneer! She fought a big battle for the rest of us, and she's another one of my heroes.

I remember when she returned to Santa Barbara to get away from the national uproar that had arisen around her. I had to put a Saturday seminar together - about women and what we were still up against in the newsroom. Mainly newsroom. Not anything about the executive suite. This was early '80s. Collectively, we hadn't gotten that far yet. A mutual friend said Christine was exhausted and wanting to escape Kansas City, and was probably gonna hole up. I convinced her to change her mind and come to our conference as our keynote speaker. I remember telling her - "you will be surrounded by a room-ful of sisters who support you ferociously. You will get such a morale boost because we're all behind you and in total solidarity with you, so actually it might make you feel better to come and get some lunch and hang with us, and blah-blah-blah," and sure enough she came! And she was terrific! I think, at least I hope, that she felt reenergized by that whole afternoon. We were all glad she came, and when I turned around in this banquet room, I saw a few men standing against the back wall - fellow news guys some of us worked with, who wanted to hear Christine Craft's remarks. It was her first public comment since that whole "too old, too unattractive, and not sufficiently deferential to men" mess went public.

Wild times in those mid-to-late '70s and early '80s. Everybody had to make adjustments. The FCC basically declared that TV and radio stations had to start hiring more women in high-profile positions, like management and on-air. That's when you first started hearing female djs. By the time my career was kicking into gear, pretty much every rock station in town had some sort of news entity, and in there they usually had a token woman. Back when women were starting to get in, there'd be one female dj on staff. Usually she'd do nights or overnights. There might be another female part-timer on the weekends. That was what I did: news and public affairs, not jocking.

And we were there because there were requirements for a certain minimum amount of news and public affairs coverage on the air in order to satisfy your obligation to your community in return for being granted a license to broadcast in the public interest. And you had to keep a file available to the public, documenting all the programming you did that attempted to address some of the problems and issues and needs in your community. There was also an elaborate ritual dictated by FCC regulation - called "ascertainment." It was basically interviews that management people had to go out physically and do with other community leaders and city fathers and note what they said were problems or issues in the community. Your responsibility, if you wanted to get your license renewed, was to develop programming that addressed some of those concerns you were able to "ascertain" in your public outreach. We had forms to fill out and there was this big-ass binder full of this stuff. Actually I think it was several binders. Most of it was done by either the news director (me) or the public affairs director (usually another female). General managers and sales managers and the rest - all were supposed to be doing them too, but they mostly didn't and we in news and public affairs had to pick up the slack.

With reagan, all those requirements started going by the wayside. Deregulation and all, dontchaknow. Gummint BAAAAD. Regulations BAAAAD! Free market! Free market! And soon a lot of news and public affairs departments started getting cut back, in some cases, cut entirely. As did a lot of people's jobs, and sometimes careers too. And hell, it happened "on the other side of the building" where the jocks and programming and the music department were, too. Once the ownership restrictions were lifted after deregulation gained a foothold at the end of reagan, there was this feeding frenzy of buying up radio stations, including a lot of small mom-n-pop ones in small and medium markets. Hell, even in L.A. As more stations were swallowed up by these consortiums and syndicators and would-be networks, you soon had behemoths like ClearChannel and other outfits that could own as many stations in a single market as their money could buy, and often you'd have one set of management overseeing more than one station, which meant one station's management had been cleaned out and the remaining management had to double up on their workload.

Shit - this is just taking me back. Sorry to blather on. It's like with various other segments of the greater women's movement. Young people up-and-coming in this day and age don't always realize how hard it was for those of us (and hell, I was small-time compared to the biggest big-ass high-wire acts also sucking all the oxygen out of the TV Guide and Radio & Records magazines) worked and had to fight and struggle to get however far we got. And what-all we had to put up with, trying to earn our way in and just get a seat at the table. You have no idea. I saw this ad that was run in Broadcasting magazine in 1983 or something, and saw my little thumbnail photo on there with the other nine news directors in the chain. Three of us were women. All on the chain's West Coast stations, for whatever that's worth.

Those were pretty interesting times. This OP and, for that matter, the whole thread just really got me thinking back. Thanks for posting, boston bean! With lukewarm apologies to peggy noonan, this was what I saw at the revolution. Worked with some pretty crazy people.

calimary

(81,210 posts)
15. Funny enough - this anecdote takes me full circle.
Tue May 22, 2012, 11:45 PM
May 2012

This women's seminar I had to put together - it was for this local news association of which I was a board member and program chair - had several panels throughout the day. Another of the major speakers? Gloria Allred.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
16. isnt that amazing and fun. i found your posts awesome in the walk
Wed May 23, 2012, 08:18 AM
May 2012

down memory lane. remembering what it was like working in the early 80's and on. i was not in the type of career path that you were, but, you were reminding me of the effort, and in my case, the willing effort to adhere to what was being suggested in embracing the working women into the workforce. i was lucky enough to have men bosses that wanted it to be a comfortable environment and demanded it with no holds bar of the employees.

things that were accepted and had been overlooked just because they had not been considered.

i didnt realize how lucky i was that i was always in an environment where nothing but the best intentions were allowed.

i remember i had to walk back to a male environment where vending machines were worked on. three men in this building. a couple times a day i would have to walk back to explain a message. they had a porn calendar on the wall. no one thought about it. they were also the only ones that would make crude and vulgar comments to me. the manager of that area was just that kind of guy.

without necessarily thinking about issues of work environment, i was talking to top boss and in passing i said..... i hate going back there and on regular basis see some naked woman with legs spread, just to give the men a message

next time i was back there, it was off the wall, and the men didnt make comments.

but, it was a learning curve for all of us and it was something that none really thought about, and once thought about was an of course.....

but, that is what i mean about having bosses that implement rule with resentment. i didnt see that. it just seemed like it was an environment of cooperation and today the whole thing is a competition and who can use who.

calimary

(81,210 posts)
18. By the early 80s things had straightened out a little bit.
Fri May 25, 2012, 09:56 PM
May 2012

Women went from - "ooooh, hey, there's a lady deejay on there" to pretty much nothing in terms of adverse reaction. At first we were novelties. Our very presence got notice, press reports and features and stuff in the local newspapers and city-centered magazines. I remember when I was interning at this one station - the format of which was described back then as a "full-service" station. They had programming, they had original local and award-winning news on the hour every hour, and someone was always on staff there, they had heavy emphasis on traffic reports (which L.A. needs in the same way we need breathable air), a night-side reporter, a City Hall reporter, a reporter responsible for news in the next county over, the works! It was personality radio and people like Gary Owens and Wink Martindale and Geoff Edwards were on. And then there was Kathy Gori, the first female jock on a major station like this one. Women jocks on music radio were RARE. And she was viewed as a real ground-breaker. As she WAS! Witty, informed, involved, engaging personality, and she was the only woman on the air - in overnights. The newsroom was full of men, too. Only one woman there - the newswriter weekdays in morning drive and midday. For one summer I interned there, so I guess I served as another woman in there - for a couple of months anyway. TERRIFYING! And THRILLING!! And WONDERFUL!!! It was summer in the early '70s and I was still in school. But boy did I learn stuff!

Now that I think back on it, I think it was an evolution from the late 60's, when FM radio started awakening and people discovered how much better music sounded on FM - and the inevitable FM stereo - than it did on AM. And you didn't lose the signal under bridges or in tunnels like you did with AM. All those stations opening up, a whole second radio dial of stations, so jobs everywhere doubled. There were ownership restrictions in place back then, so the most properties any one company could own in the same market could only add up to three, which sucked for the corporations if they owned one of the local TV stations. TV stations counted as one of the three. So more likely it'd be a TV station, an AM and an FM your company would own. I'm just guessing here, but it happened just as a few of us of the female persuasion were coming out of college, or college radio, ready to work and seriously experienced in all facets of operation. 'Cause FM started happening in the late 60's and women on the air were quite the uniquity! But it also meant there were more stations needing more personnel, especially your type.

So by the time I was ready to go out there and try my luck, I'd graduated college and I got in straight away. BUT I was well-aware that it was a moment just after the FCC recommended that stations expand their hiring of women and minorities. The first three on-air jobs I had, I landed because they needed a female in there. Either they had the guy in morning drive and needed somebody for afternoons, or a guy in the mornings and another guy in the afternoons, but needed somebody for weekends and fill-ins. So the first several years of my career were in jobs like that, as stations slowly opened up hiring to include more women. And it wasn't out of the question that a larger news department might actually have more than one woman on staff. There was this little group of us women that started proliferating. I felt as though women like Kathy Gori, Raechel Donohue, Allison Steele back east, and a very few more, were like our older sisters. Then we trickled in at my level, and by then it was no longer viewed as so unusual that women would hold any job in the station. So more women who were younger and just listeners then were becoming inspired to go into broadcasting when their turn came.

Eventually women did everything. And it was no big deal anymore. It was no longer - "oh yeah, she's the token." One of the best - no, make that THE best - audio engineers I ever worked with was a woman. DAMN she had laser-precision reaction time! And she was so focused. She held her own performance at the mixing board to a very high standard. When I was on air with her on knobs, it was almost as though we communicated by instinct. And besides that she was smart and had a fun personality and everybody liked her just anyway. And there were women in the sales manager positions, eventually even some women general managers. I worked for a female vice president of a radio news division once. She was a cool gal.

Interesting transitionary period to have lived and worked through. We all have our stories. I once went to lunch with a young peer from a cross-town station, and as we traded stories she said "wow, I've never suffered." And I thought to myself - "suffered? Hmm... I never thought of it that way. But now that I do, she makes a good point. It certainly hasn't been easy."

MerryBlooms

(11,761 posts)
17. I've never had an issue with Allred
Wed May 23, 2012, 05:04 PM
May 2012

I know quite a lot of lawyers. They have a few things in common- most have egos as big as Texas, type A personality, and truly passionate about the law. Allred has never really struck me any different. I guess for the most part, when it comes to lawyers, I'm fairly neutral. They're always the brunt of jokes and the first to get thrown off the island, but when you really need one, you better hire the one that has a reputation for being a shark when there's blood in the water.

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