I don't believe there is a gender war on DU

[boston bean]

Do you?

That is much too simplistic of an explanation to describe the dynamics of the angst many of us feel.

I'm not at war with any man. I am at "war" with some of the sexist and misogynist ideas and beliefs that some hold. I'm only using the word war because that is the word some are using as in "gender war". It is more like a struggle.

How about you?

[BlueJazz]

1. Now just calm down, little Lady...everything is going to be alright.

[gollygee]

2. I don't think there's a war

but I'm not going to be shut up and not talk about sexism because it makes them uncomfortable. Some of them got upset but a short film of people saying "don't rape." I can't worry about what makes them upset if they can get upset by that.

[boston bean]

3. Right. I hope your not thinking I meant for anyone to shut up

About or not confront it when hey see it.

[gollygee]

5. No I did not think that

I think there are probably people here at DU who would like it if we responded to their anger and belittling comments by shutting up.

[boston bean]

7. Ah yes.

[seabeyond]

4. i think it is just the reality we live. war? it is how we think and in turn behave.

our conditioned reality that we are fighting to break free from that others are wanting to hold on tight so they can maintain their definition of gender. there comfort. no different from trying to free a right winger from his need of rigid roles to walk thru life.

something flamed it all recently. lots of voices and anger and escalation. probably us getting angry and talking about those wanting to control our bodies and pay extra insurance started that up. then there was a reaction to our action.

[boston bean]

6. I am objecting to calling what is going on here a gender war.

It way too simplistic. I really think I must stress this and clarify.

[seabeyond]

14. i do not think i do call it that BB. might be a good point not to.

generally, i just say all the garbage, or tired of the crap. i do nto see it as a war. i certainly do not want it to be. so not fun. and i get tons of hides. and too tired. and do not want to go over the same crap over and over. with same people.

i got slammed last night at an offensive post. totally out of the blue. unexpected. certainly uncalled for and was more like the behavior of the guys that get on the net and try to intemidate with trash talk. that was weird. too weird. too much, so much.

no, i do not see it as war.

[boston bean]

16. But that isn't what I mean.

When someone minimizes what is going on here by calling it a gender war, I think that the term is being used to diminish and delegitimize our grievances. Oh..... They're just fighting men. They don't like men. It's a battle of the sexes. When that is not what this is at all. It's a matter of framing.

It's a struggle for our rights, a change in the culture.

[seabeyond]

18. i agree. it is obnoxious and a dismissal calling it a gender war. agree. nt

[Arcanetrance]

8. No I think it's just some people bristling at their comfort zone being challenged

[boston bean]

10. I agree. And it's such a more complex issue.

It's not men against women or women against men. I think the term minimizes what we see happening here and makes it seem as though this is some tit for tat argument. It's not that at all.

[seabeyond]

15. agreed. nt

[boston bean]

9. It makes it seem that one is fighting against men.

I reject that framing. That's not what is happening imho.

[Chiquitita]

11. It seems like it's about attention to me

As soon as women start calling attention to gender power dynamics in ways that push for change, some people want to suck that energy back towards themselves: their egos, their need for affirmation. Hey, everyone has feelings. But if I had back all the times I wasted my energy patting some man's bruised ego.... There is way way too much time spent pampering people who, in turn, don't try to understand other points of view. There's not a war. Just heated exchange.

[boston bean]

13. The term makes it seem that the issue is woman against man.

It's a struggle for rights and a culture that respects women. It about ideas and bigotries. It's not a battle of the sexes.

[seabeyond]

19. you are right. nt

[Chiquitita]

22. You are right it is about a better humanity

It is not a battle or war between people, but over concepts, practices, injustices.

[boston bean]

23. Yes thank you! I feel like sometimes I can

think these things very clearly and not put it into words properly.

I am always so grateful to people who can vocalize it better than I can!

[smirkymonkey]

35. Brilliant post!

Thank you!

[BainsBane]

12. No, the vast majority of men on this site are very supportive of women's rights

There is a vocal minority full of anger and hatred toward women and feminism in particular than raise a lot of shit.

BTW, that minority is not comprised entirely of men. There are a very, very small number of women who seem intent on aligning themselves with the most egregious examples of sexism.

[Sheldon Cooper]

17. It is a small but loud group of men, their eager female cohorts, and

the owner of this site. Frankly, the blame lies squarely with him. He could raise the tenor of discussion here, and make this a truly welcoming place for women, by making a couple of quick changes to the user agreement. But he has outright refused to do so. I don't what else to draw from that except the obvious.

And for the alert stalkers and those afraid that Skinner's feelings may be hurt, go ahead and hide this. EVERYONE reads hidden posts, so my point will get out there regardless of your efforts to silence it.

[seabeyond]

20. not to mention you deserve. we all are racking 'em up. lol. woke up to another this morning.

was a wtf? lol

[Tuesday Afternoon]

27. +1 --

you know if BainsBane and I are agreeing there has to be something to all this what she said.

[seabeyond]

21. it is like yesterday. we had that post on the new zealand rapist. a cop tasering woman to see her

breasts. i cannot even remember all the posts of late. then the PSAs. domestic violence. and i was thinking with the most horrible of bottom feeders, purposely drugging young girls to rape. damn.... i get why the men would be tired of hearing it. man, how hard it must be to hear story after story about their gender.

but... cant stop talking about it. there is a HUGE problem here. staying silent will do nothing. it is no more their fault than mine. i do not want to hear it all either, but what is the alternative.

and thinking about the men that are being hurt with all this.

and thinking, maybe there needs to be an OP from men. men that can see and hear these stories and not take it personally. maybe there is a reason some men do not turn it back on women. is it cause they do not have to hold onto the entitlement any longer and that makes it easier?

i do not want men to be hurt with all the trash talked about their gender.

but... we cannot stay silent and ignore all the trash women are having to suffer thru, live, feel.

[nomorenomore08]

24. It's a struggle against ignorance. Something that exists (or should) in all facets of human life.

People who parrot MRA bullshit without even realizing what they're doing, are a prime example of that ignorance.

*Edit: I should say I meant the struggle against ignorance should exist in all facets of life. Not ignorance itself, just to be clear.

[ismnotwasm]

25. No

But here are MRA's or so like them to not matter, who happen to be very loud.

And continuing to promote old sexist ideas runs smack into hetero-sexism and racism. If they're going to own and defend sexism, they get to have the whole ugly package.

[boston bean]

26. Agreed.

[MadrasT]

28. Agree. There is a war, and it may be *about* gender, but it isn't one gender vs another. n/t

[chervilant]

29. When contemporary research shows that

56% of men surveyed would rape a woman if they were certain they wouldn't get caught, clearly there's a major problem. I don't call it a "war," because war is a patriarchal precept, AND I don't view men as the "enemy." I feel that women and men must work together to eliminate these dangerous patriarchal precepts.

[boston bean]

30. Thanks Chervilant!

Another way to explain it. Right on!

[seabeyond]

31. later, when i have time, i want an OP with that last you have. or you can make an OP.

i knew i had seen the number as high as 56%, but i also saw 63%. though when i went back for research i was on getting 30 something and 43%. so i am glad you found that number. but there were more than one points on you list i wanted to discuss.

that was a good list and appreciate you gathering for your post.

taking care of a little girl right now.

[ancianita]

32. I see skirmishes but not a war.

[GeoWilliam750]

33. Nor do I believe there is a gender war

Women's rights = human rights

A woman should have complete - and informed - control over her own body (anything else is slavery)

Equal pay for equal work

Equal opportunity

Freedom from fear of sexual assualt
---------------------

How can anyone argue - much less fight - against these? To do so is to argue for a form of slavery.

[BainsBane]

34. They find ways.