Imagine thinking the worst thing about rape is not the crime or the harm to victims

[BainsBane]

but that a man might be exposed to a PSA that mentions rape and men within the same 60s seconds?

It turns out this so-called "misandrist" PSA was made by a men's group at FSU, men who like women and don't want to see them raped, men who aren't so self-absorbed that they worry more about their egos being bruised at the mention of the word rape than the actual crime or its victims. This is a group of young men who likes and respects women and isn't so self-pitying that they see an ad that mentions the word men as an attack upon themselves. In fact, they made that PSA. These are strong men, confident enough in themselves that do not need or want to see rape victims blamed for the assaults against them. Rather than actively promoting rape culture by trying to silence victims and claim men have nothing to do with a culture that promotes sexual assault, they tell other men "don't rape her." "Don't rape her." That is all. These are not men who worry more about their warped persecution complexes than victims of sexual assault. These are allies to women and good human beings who want to see a better society.

Yet some insist rape PSAs should focus only on women, since they see women as responsible for their own assault. PSAs must never mention the word men, despite the fact that 99% of rapists are men (and 10% of victims in civil society, far more in prison). The misogynists insist they should not have to teach their sons to respect women's boundaries. Mind you this mindset is simultaneously accompanied by protestations that having sex with a drunk woman should not be considered rape. The law is irrelevant to them. This same mindset also claims women who say no really mean yes.

The students at FSU, thankfully, do not revel in such intensely misogynistic ideology. They care about women because they are human beings, friends, and partners. Astoundingly, they are concerned more about rape victims than their own egos, which clearly are far stronger and healthier than those who take offensive at PSAs directed at rapists. The self-pity some enjoy wallowing in is pathetic. This PSA was funded and created by a group of young men--men who care about women and the world they live in.


Courtesy of csziggy, a proud alumnus of Florida State University, this is the info on the group behind the video:

Men Advocating Responsible Conduct (MARC) is a group of students at FSU

Group that made this PSA:
Men Advocating Responsible Conduct (MARC) is a group of students at the Florida State University who seek to educate their peers concerning the importance of appropriate and responsible behavior.

The Mission of MARC is to raise awareness about the socialization of men and the cultural issues of sexism and gender violence. Through advocacy, education and training we are committed to creating a campus culture in which gender equality and respect prevail.

Members of MARC include undergraduate and graduate students of Florida State University who demonstrate strong leadership skills and who exhibit a sincere interest in addressing issues such as sexual assault on college campuses. If you are interested in becoming a member of MARC, simply fill out and submit the application form to MARC and meet with the director for an informal interview.

Campus Partners

Victim Advocate Program
Dean of Students Department
Division of Student Affairs

http://sga.fsu.edu/marc/

For those who may have missed the context, here is the video:

[hrmjustin]

1. K&R!

[BainsBane]

2. :)

[hrmjustin]

3. .

[seabeyond]

4. i like how you explained it.

i am tired, going to bed. but i am glad i read this. will think about it. thanks.

this reminds me of my oldest son and how he approaches it. when standing for women, it is not about him, his ego or his masculinity. and he has faced some of the same issues. i hadnt thought about it until you spelled it out here. thanks.

[Warpy]

5. Good commentary and a great video

that has much more of an effect than the old graphic did because it's men doing the talking. Men are the ones who have to destroy rape culture and men are 99% in need of stopping the crime.

[intaglio]

6. Thanks, because this needed saying

Mind you to a certain group on DU this is video is "Stupid and insulting," and that the only purpose is to mock other "useful" PSAs. Of course no dissent is allowed from this view within this group because those who dissent too loudly are banned.

Within the comments are claims that ordinary guys walking down a street don't look at women and think "Shall I rape her?" This ignores the fact that drunken, ordinary guys do think that a woman is "asking for it" and will justify their actions by saying "...well, she was dressed (provocatively*) " and "... she didn't say no or scream or anything," and the ever popular "... we were both drunk and I thought she said 'yes',"

It ignores the fact that ordinary guys (and rarely women) rape their children or the children of their relatives or their relatives or the children of their friends or their pupils because "... I thought they were flirting with me," or "... s/he was just so beautiful," as well as the fraudulent "I loved her (or him)".

It ignores the ordinary business people who are certain that if someone wants to be treated as an equal or wants a promotion they will be willing to "pay" for it with sex.

It ignores the ordinary couples where one rapes another because it is the "right" of the rapist to have sex with the victim.




++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
* used instead of "she was dressed like an s word" and ".... like a w word"

[seabeyond]

8. i think this post is particularly important in defining rape. i started a couple years ago or more

challenging the comment that rapists where sociopaths or whatever mental illness they want to describe them as. for a couple reasons. firstly, that is not a reality. they are the ordinary people, too often. ok. not playing the game. they are ordinary boys and men. they have been conditioned that it is their right to sex. as long as we do not define it as rape, it is not rape. though describing what happened is exactly rape. we have to get beyond the idea that it is an outlining group of our men and boys. that is not the reality. we cannot address a problem accurately if we lie to ourselves.

the stat that says 56% of men/boys would rape if they knew they could get away with it pretty much clears up that myth. the fact so many of us have been raped by the "ordinary" guy tells us it is not true that all rapists are sociopaths.

we need to address the correct issue. the defining of masculinity. privilege and entitlement. a culture that feeds rape. media that promotes rape. porn that glorifies rape.

second. men are married to the idea that rapists are sociopaths and they are not gonna let that go. cause then they have to address some really hard facts. maybe even have to do a little self reflecting on their own perceptions.

women are married to the idea because you figure it will lesson the odds of rape and an illusion of safety

good post

[boston bean]

7. The post you are referencing is MRA bullshit.

So offensive. Thanks for the well thought out post.

[NuclearDem]

9. It's either an unintentional or deliberate misunderstanding about rape culture.

I replied to Bonobo in the GD thread and tried to explain what it actually is. It's not just the cartoonishly evil stereotype we have of rapists, but the sinister way it turns otherwise stand up people into accomplices and rapists themselves.

The ad just targets one of the worst environments where this festers--college.

[ismnotwasm]

11. It's hard

The wort "culture" seems to scare people; the fact that we have a culture that contributes to rape, in cases condones it, seems to shut certain otherwise intelligent people down.

Then you get " I'm not a rapist, so how can I be part of rape culture"

[BainsBane]

12. That kind of open opposition to rape prevention ads simply because they mention the word men

Last edited Fri Nov 8, 2013, 05:15 PM - Edit history (1)

actively promotes an environment that fosters rape. Rape culture--widespread acceptance of the crime, blaming victims instead of perpetrators, and low conviction rates exist because of crap like that. MRAsmas are rape culture, even if they themselves don't rape. When someone looks at the rape epidemic and worries more about his bruised ego than victims, he shows his absolute disregard for the lives of safety and women and in so doing actively perpetuates rape culture. In contrast, this group of young men from FSU actually like women. They seek to eradicate rape culture rather than prop it up.

[ismnotwasm]

13. Well said!

Trying getting them to see it shouldn't be so difficult

[ismnotwasm]

10. Nice!

[dougolat]

14. I gather there's pushback against that ad?

It's very good, and it bears repeating, especially for some of those discomforted by the message.
Still, on a heavy rotation (played a LOT) , like most PSAs , it could become annoying, don't you think?

[BainsBane]

15. The person who is the most vocal complainer

doesn't even live in the US. I doubt he's seen it play at all. Besides, heavy airplay is hardly an excuse for making one's self pity more important than rape victims. People can also turn off the TV if they don't want to hear an ad. I really don't give a fuck if someone finds it annoying. I hope the rapists find it EXTREMELY annoying and shaming.

[nomorenomore08]

16. The "drunk sex isn't rape" line is disingenuous anyway.

Firstly because it ignores the fact that most cases of so-called "date rape" are quite deliberate - the guy more or less knows what he's doing, and the other person's consent or lack thereof is irrelevant to him.

Secondly, because it should be fairly obvious to anyone with any decency that "too drunk to say no" equals "too drunk to say yes." And in a case where the line of consent/non-consent is blurry at best, common sense should dictate that one refrain.

[MadrasT]

17. it is a laughable position

One assumed by those who refuse to examine their privilege.

[BainsBane]

18. Supposedly distorting words

I find it fascinating that some are so concerned that I have come to conclusions not explicitly articulated by those who oppose this PSA, yet have absolutely no problem supporting a collective whine that completely distorts what this PSA says. Apparently the obligation to quote only what someone says and offer no interpretation applies only to this group and not others.

When people continually focus on how men are so aggrieved by anti-rape efforts and complain about the poor men falsely accused, the collective result reveals what their views are. If they thought rape victims were important, they would write about that. They do not. They focus entirely on their own persecution complex. Some even claim that mentioning the word "men" in the PSA is itself discriminatory. We're supposed to pretend 99% of rapists aren't male. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender Their idea of civil rights involves ignoring and deliberately distorting reality. Such an attitude is central to maintaining rape culture. Denying that rape is a problem and pretending it is gender neutral is a willful distortion that contributes to an environment in which rape victims are mocked and rapists absolved of responsibility--rape culture.

[smirkymonkey]

19. K&R!

:kick: