Fucking creeps

[ismnotwasm]

Google "rape porn" see what you get. Go ahead. As usually, the very young in appearance is depicted along with the usual crap.

[BainsBane]

1. with the safe search filter off

[ismnotwasm]

2. Yup

And then defend that shit. Anybody who does just looks like a pervert asshole.

[BainsBane]

3. The same folks who find it an outrage to talk about actual violence against women

because it's "misandry" vigorously defend rape porn.

[ismnotwasm]

4. I noticed that

Incoherent convoluted arguments that certainly doesn't hide the fact that these are some very sick individuals.

[seabeyond]

8. " just looks like a pervert asshole." yup,

literally makes me sick to my stomach.

[KitSileya]

5. Yeah, I posted on the monster thread

But the first replies to my post just made me go - nope, not going to wade into that swamp. Don't have the spoons. However, the next couple of replies have been positive, as at least three have replied that they appreciate my attempt to connect rape porn, even simulated rape porn, to the manifestation of rape culture we live in.

[BainsBane]

6. Not just rape porn

but its defense in that thread--all of that is part of rape culture. When a man's desire to access any and all porn depicting or even perpetrating violence against women trumps the lives of the victims of those crimes, that is a clear demonstration of rape culture in action.

[seabeyond]

9. what is beyond stupid is the lazy argument, what about watching a horror movie? jacking off to a

horror movie? really?

and a person cannot see the difference? bullshit. lazy argument.

[KitSileya]

10. Exactly. How can they think that those watching aren't affected?

You have amply provided scientific evidence for the link between watching porn and the warping of their views on sex and intimacy - how can they think that this doesn't affect the consumers?

Not to mention that they cannot, cannot know whether ANY porn they watch is actually rape. So many sex workers are pressured and forced - by violence, by drugs, by financial means - to participate in porn production, that any pron they watch is suspect. Just because there are "happy hookers" etc, doesn't mean that the majority are forced into it, and many under age. Their consciences must be shriveled and black if they consume porn and don't think about those they watch.

[seabeyond]

11. we have a whole nation in japan where the youth think real sex is ick... but they have their vending

machines on the corner of streets selling schoolgirls soiled panties to grown men to get off on. how is that not validating, feeding child rape.

we sit here and go on and on how fox news warps grown adults mind. but getting off to women brutalized does no harm to a man. hours, upon hours of a man getting off in his mind brutalizing women, and then what an eeeew, when the man looks at a real life woman.

[BainsBane]

12. Excellent point about Fox, Sea.

I'd like to see one of them respond to that.

[whathehell]

91. OMG...Is that true?...Jeebus...My hubby works for an old Japanese company (pharmaceutical) and

he goes to Japan about three times a year -- Mainly to Osaka. I'll have to ask him about that.

That is SO gross and hideous, it's hard to believe it's "legal".

[seabeyond]

94. yes. it is hard to believe a nation would allow, promoting the rape of girls, BUT...

i got two posts hidden because i was told that i was not to feel ick, your shame the man, or hold any value judgment of buying from a vending machine schoolgirls soiled undies, that are in vending machines on the corner of streets.

that girls, you know the schoolgirls, that walk past it regularly. knowing the old fucks are sniffing their undies.

and i am the problem?

[whathehell]

103. You actually got posts HIDDEN for that?...For fuck's sake, if it involves MINORS, how can

anyone defend it?....Mr. Whathehell isn't home yet, but I'll be sure to ask him about this when he does.

[seabeyond]

104. well. you know me. i may have been a bit.... blunt. lol

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125528332

here is the one i brought in here.

go to the subthread in my hide i was talking about and you will see the article the poster has about the subject. better informed for your husband

[BainsBane]

110. The hide on that OP was especially absurd

[seabeyond]

112. jury stated i need to go into ATA and talk to skinner about grown men buying schoolgirls soiled

panties. i just could not see skinner all that interested in the subject. i thought about taking it in there and telling him jury and alerter felt HE was the only one i was allowed to talk to about grown men that buy schoolgirls soiled panties out of vending machine.

so, what do you have to say about grown men that buy schoolgirls soiled panties out of vending machine.

but i decided to give him a break.

[BainsBane]

115. Oh, I posted something in regard to that

in the context of the poutrage over a rape prevention PSA that mentioned men. He didn't answer.

[smirkymonkey]

102. It amazes me how they can justify their whack off porn

at the expense of women's lives. Why is this so important to them? It seems incredibly sick to me.

[seabeyond]

105. dominance and control thru humiliation gives them superiority allowing to maintain

privilege and entitlement.

hard to let go of feeling like a superior human. kinda like kinda hard for those racists to let it go.

[TBF]

184. ^^ this is excellent ^^ nt

[BainsBane]

106. because they refuse to think about the lives of the women in that porn

or how women and male rape victims are affected by a rape culture in which that porn proliferates. They keep evoking a nonsensical argument about the state not becoming involved in relations between "consenting adults," as though this is about what goes on in their bedrooms. They don't ask the women being raped in the porn for consent, nor do they know if she even gave consent. Porn is property to them, and the women don't exist as anything other than the property of the producers and viewers.

I don't care about people's private sexual lives. That is entirely their business. But when they try to turn it into a political position and make some grand pronouncement about "freedom" requiring their ability to get off watching women raped and mutilated, that pisses me off. Again, porn is not their personal private sex life. It involves real people who come to that work through a variety of circumstances, from economic privation to debt peonage and even enslavement. It also has impacts society in general because it is rape culture writ large.

[smirkymonkey]

150. Yeah, fucking creeps pretty much says it all.

You hit the nail on the head w/ your post. The fact that they flat out refuse to consider how the woman involved is affected is just repulsive to me.

[BainsBane]

152. Oh, but they respect their "choices"

as long as that choice involves submitting to rape porn rather than criticizing it. They are real feminists and we are not. Now do you think they have ever asked a rape porn actress how she feels? of course not.

[smirkymonkey]

161. Thanks BainsBane!

I do appreciate your excellent, well thought out posts and standing up for us!

[BainsBane]

162. You're welcome

I have to say it's exhausting. There is a hell of a lot of projection going on in some of those threads.

[seabeyond]

153. smirkey.. i have missed you. good seeing you in here saying... ya

fuckin creeps. and ya, read your reply to me in the other thread. to actually expect women that have been raped to see this any different is just..... dumb.

[smirkymonkey]

160. Thank you! And thank you for always fighting the good fight!

Even though it feels like you are feeling like you are banging your head against the wall most times!

[seabeyond]

7. fuckin creeps. point. .... fuckin creeps. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

17. link, please

thanks.

[gollygee]

13. That thread is HUGE

Apparently having the ability to watch girls and women get raped, or a really good enactment anyway, is the most important issue on DU right now.

[Tien1985]

53. I logged off after I read that thread

People who want the "right" to watch rape porn aren't people, they are monsters. Period, it's that simple.

[BainsBane]

57. I love you

[seabeyond]

60. i know. we fall in love incredibly easy. a man gets it....

i luv you. lol all over the place.

easy baine, you are just too easy.

[BainsBane]

62. I know.

I meant I love his moral compass. I wasn't really coming on to him. Now the Israeli guy, that might be another story.

[seabeyond]

63. i know, lmao. and i really do mean it when i say it, cause love is very easy to hand out.

for me.

not a matter of coming onto someone

now

who is isreali guy?

[BainsBane]

64. How soon they forget

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125528750

[seabeyond]

66. ha hahahahaha. lol. nt

[seabeyond]

67. he is a doll. nt

[seabeyond]

65. this guy huh? it is, isnt it. fess up. ya.

[BainsBane]

68. Yep

Some people are turned on by porn, but for me it's intelligence.

[seabeyond]

69. respect. not needing to humiliated, degrade, demand submissivenes. ya. nt

[ismnotwasm]

73. ..

[whathehell]

92. Thanks, Tien...Women, especially feminists here, need all the support we can get!

[smirkymonkey]

151. Thank YOU!

[duffyduff]

14. The biggest lie here is this is about "consenting adults."

"Consent" has to be freely entered into, and financial pressures to do porn are NOT "consent."

[seabeyond]

19. exactly. but, what would that make them if they had to recognize reality? nt

[MadrasT]

15. Because "free speech" is equivalent to

being able to have access to whatever gives you an orgasm, whenever you want, with no restriction, and don't anyone dare make a judgement about it, or they're being awful nasty judgy control freaks.

The view seems to be "My right to have an orgasm whenever and however I want" trumps absolutely everything.

I don't get it. It seems like an odd fixation to me.

[ismnotwasm]

16. That's because it's posturing bullshit

Or, Apparently we have a whole crew who watches rape porn on a regular basis. Which is fetiishizing rape, and if so, all their arguments fall like dominos.


“The arguments against insanity fall through with a soft shirring sound;
these are the sounds of dead voices on dead records
floating down the broken shaft of memory.
When I turn to you to ask if you remember,
When I turn to you in our bed”

Stephan King.

[MadrasT]

18. "Which is fetishizing rape, and if so, all their arguments fall like dominos."

This is what I can't get past.

And for me, it isn't due to unfamiliarity with the "lifestyle". I was an active member of the BDSM community for a decade. I have attended/participated in the big famous (in some circles) multi-day conventions, had a wallet full of membership cards to the "dungeons" in the big cities, and had an active "scene life". I have seen and done things that would require a real-life fainting couch for some people to even contemplate, and at the time, was completely OK with it.

There is a saying in the community that YKINMK which equals "Your Kink Is Not My Kink" (but it's OK) and that was my mantra for a very long time. (Because who was I to judge someone else's fantasy life?)

But I see it through a different lens now, my lens is more macro (how does this affect the world, not just me-me-me-me)... and I am not OK with fetishizing rape. There was no single event that led to this shift, I didn't have a bad experience or anything... it was just a gradual shift of perspective over time.

[BainsBane]

44. The issue is that for some

The whole world doesn't include women. It's all about men's rights to have access to whatever they want, while the rights of women--to be free from enslavement, rape, or be the object of porn that fetishizing rape, thereby increasing the likelihood viewers will actually rape-- are entirely inconsequential. They refuse to see women as anything but objects of sexual gratification.

Concerns about workers rights disappear when it comes to these industries in which women are the principal labor force.

[He loved Big Brother]

167. Same here, almost exactly. n/t

[seabeyond]

22. another problem, defining rape fantasy as rape. it is not. there is nothing about rape fantasy

that can even come close to defining rape. nothing. so what they are doing it minimizing actual fuckin rape to a made up, totally control, play act in sexuality.

that is what truly disgusts me on this

[seabeyond]

23. we went from fantasized rape that isnt rape can be fun, to rape is fun.

this is how i bottom line it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

164. yes, posturing Bullshit. strutting and preening like old roosters in the barnyard

I will out posture those nasty old men in real life every time because I don't have to worry about a jury and getting posts hidden in real life.

Truth is there are no men like these in my real life ... I culled out the Nasty a LONG TIME AGO ...

[seabeyond]

21. problem is they say it trumps, oh, say.. sex slaves that lose all freedom and voice and repeatedly

raped, abused and torture.

sounding to me like that is a pretty HUGE imbalance of one right beside another right.

[gollygee]

25. +1

If some teenage boys in Steubenville or some other high school watch it and then start to think rape is sexy and amazing and they have to try it, people get hurt. Making rape look sexy affects people in a huge way. But their right to watch exactly what they want when they masturbate is apparently bigger than that.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

163. in real life --

if one of these nasty fuckers on here, ever tried to darken my door ...

well, let me just say:

My 2A will trump their 1A every damn time. Try me. Fucking Creeps.

Fucking Nasty Perverted Sickos.

I would tell them to get help but, they are happy as pigs in shit.

So glad I do not know any of those men in real life.

[LanternWaste]

20. The Usual Suspects are simply rationalizing personal desires over both personal safety...

The Usual Suspects are simply rationalizing personal desires over both personal safety and the collective good.

And the idiots who conflate a pornographic rape depiction with the same done in a film should read the relevant legal definitions of both art and pornography lest they continue appearing as brain-dead idiots.

Each excuse listed is merely a justification to better continue their desired viewing habits. Border-line.... very border-line individuals.

[seabeyond]

24. well said. nt

[MadrasT]

31. Democrats are all about the collective good...

...until it threatens to interfere with their "right" to get off however the hell they want, consequences be damned. Then suddenly they're goddamn Libertarians.

Things that make you go "Hmmmmm".

[seabeyond]

33. this. and it is so blatantly in face i do not know how they try to pull it off with a straight face

hmmmm. lol

[BainsBane]

72. Until it comes to women

[smirkymonkey]

154. So true! The rationalization is just laughable.

They sound like complete idiots.

[geek tragedy]

46. But, but, but 50 Shades of Gray. Teh wimminz likes that! nt

[mike_c]

26. a partial list of the things I simply will not do....

1) Lick a frozen flagpole.

2) Pee on an electric fence.

3) Announce that "all you pussy bikers eat shit!" in a Hell's Angels bar.

4) Turn off Safe Search and Google "rape porn."

Oh no I won't said Sam-I-am.

[seabeyond]

27. ummmm. some of us in here might be a bit bothered using the womans

anatomy to call out the tough guys. just saying. otherwise

kick ass post.



thanks

[mike_c]

30. I know....

It's an old Chevy Chase line if I'm not mistaken. Apologies for any offense. But really, "rape porn?" I was about to say that I absolutely don't understand how anyone could find such a thing enticing, but even as I wrote it I realized that I do know. Some people obtain pleasure from power over and control of others, even to the point of violence. But no thank you-- that's sociopathic, IMO.

Anyway, sorry to butt in on the thread-- my first (and lasting) reaction to the OP was "no way in hell!"

[seabeyond]

32. dont be sorry. i personally appreciate

hearing your opinion. i think it is always important us women hear the men that feel as you do so we can keep it in balance. very very important. thank you

[ismnotwasm]

34. It's all good

I have no problem watch dogging porn so I can justify my arguments, but rape porn is something I stayed away from. I was looking for a definition, and couldn't find one with my wording googled "rape porn" and went from there to rape porn sites. Then I thought who the hell wants to justify this?

Who?

Oh wait...

[Deep13]

28. While I am generally loath to restrict freedom of expression in any way...

Last edited Tue Nov 19, 2013, 05:12 PM - Edit history (1)

...I can see how what starts out as an outlandish fantasy can become normalized by repeated exposure. That would be especially true for young people who are still forming their own ideas about what is normal (and I don't necessarily mean under-age viewers). This appears to be true of other forms of violent entertainment. I assume film producers have a woman to portray the victim who ostensibly is performing voluntarily, but from what I understand, it sure doesn't seem that way. (I saw PBS(?) documentary on extreme internet porn several years ago. The filmmaker visited the set of one of these productions. They did not show it, but they did share the audio component. Very disconcerting.)

[seabeyond]

29. exactly. well said. i haev listened about production to. fact is, though, trafficking

women and children to use in rape films and other demeaning, humiliating, abusive porn is very real and escalating.

[Deep13]

35. Sounds like the equivalent of a snuff film, with its unwilling participants.

The fact that there is what amounts to slavery anywhere in the 21st c. is one of the great moral failures of our time.

[seabeyond]

36. see. that is what really floors me.

decades ago, i would ask self.... self, what would you have done in the times of slavery. i have asked myself that a lot over the years. would i be one to particpate. excuse. ignore. ???

or would i have the courage to call it out.

and over the last decade to see such an escalation in slavery and we do not do anything. how are we better than the days when we had black slaves. how do we justify using another human being in this manner simply to fuckin get off.

[Deep13]

37. Apparently, oppression based on race, religion, or ethnicity...

...is a human rights violation, while oppression based on sex or gender is just a cultural difference.

[seabeyond]

38. probably. we have enough evidence. nt

[MadrasT]

39. Nah, it's just because evolution.

(insert more evo-psych idiocy here)

[ismnotwasm]

40. I actually love the fact the evo-psych is being

Professionally debunked left and right.

[seabeyond]

41. yes it is. unfortunately, everyone that wanted/needed an excuse grabbed on tight and wont let go.

is was put out as fact. science. and only in the last couple years, it is being addressed.

[LanternWaste]

42. And before I forget... "fucking creeps" is about as accurate a description as possible. nt

And before I forget... "fucking creeps" is about as accurate a description as possible. nt

[seabeyond]

43. i love when you so undo the tie and unbutton that top button, ...

does that offend you, cause i say it with a huge ass smile on my face.

[LanternWaste]

81. I get as much as kick out of it as you do!

No offense at all. I get as much as kick out of it as you do!

I sometimes-every-now-and-then-not-very-often take the tuxedo off and put on sweats (and enjoy it with a guilty smile).

[seabeyond]

82. ya?

Last edited Wed Nov 20, 2013, 01:18 PM - Edit history (1)

and as you are leaning back, kicking up your feet, are you grabbing a beer on your way back? with a grin of satisfaction.... of a day well done?

the curious want to know

ha ha hahahahah

i LUV life.

[geek tragedy]

45. I'll take your word for it--even if I had the stomach to see that crap, I share

a computer with my wife and no thanks to the possibility of explaining that one.

[seabeyond]

47. no thanks to the possibility of explaining that one.

[Sheldon Cooper]

48. You have amused me greatly!

[seabeyond]

49. ohhhh. isnt that stupid of me.

his last name is cooper. you took his name. what a fuckin hoot. i never put that together. i luv my sheldon.

luv his mama too

[Sheldon Cooper]

50. Sheldon's mama is hilarious.

[seabeyond]

51. she is, she is a hoot. a fav

[MadrasT]

52. Sheldon is my hero.

He is so... me.

[seabeyond]

54. i so.... see it. lol. nt

[Dash87]

59. There's definitely a little Sheldon in all of us.

[ismnotwasm]

55. ..

[BainsBane]

56. They gave me a migraine

Literally.

[Dash87]

58. No thanks :/

I could only imagine, though. Actually, I'd rather not do that too.

[seabeyond]

61. it really is making feel better, the men saying... no thanks. lol. sigh.... nt

[BainsBane]

70. Me too

I think that's why I was so effusive toward Tien1985. After dealing with some really disconcerting individuals for far too long in that thread, I was thrilled to read his post. I guess it just came at the right moment.

[seabeyond]

71. it works. this is what i am saying. yes. nt

[BainsBane]

74. Did you see we supposedly believe all porn depicts only women?

and that no such thing as gay porn exists? I saw NO ONE in that thread claim all porn was heterosexual or that women were always the objects of the rapists rage. In fact, I specifically mentioned boys. They accuse feminists of creating strawman while they are erecting a hay field. All because they are afraid someone is going to take away their precious, extreme rape porn.

Any moron can do an internet sex and see how much porn is targeted at women as the consumer audience. Certainly some exists, but the vast majority is targeted at heterosexual men, with gay male audiences coming second. But some use the fact that women consume any porn, or that gay porn exists, to pretend there is something gender neutral about porn--clearly a bold faced lie. (Funny how all the evo psych arguments about men being more visual than women and supposedly needing sex more than us fly out the window when it comes to erecting false claims about gender parity in porn.) Does anyone here for a second doubt that if the porn industry were built primarily around images of the rape and degradation of men that it would have been outlawed ages ago. Christ, we can't even play online poker anymore because too many men blew through money, while any and all depictions of violence of women, girls, and boys are available to access at a moment's notice.

Yet the discussion about the British law was not about porn in general or even rape porn in general. The law makes illegal possession of porn that results in the death or injury on a person, or kills an animal, or where the depictions make it impossible to tell if a person is truly being raped or not. If want the voyeurs wanted was, as they claim, consensual depictions of rape, they would have no problem with that law, since it bans none of that. If all they cared about was the simulation of violence, they could watch animation or CGI created porn. Of course that doesn't interest this audience. Its viewers want to believe women who are the objects of porn are actually being raped and tortured because that is what these men wish they could do. What they get their rocks off on is the absence of consent, watching the violation of women against their will, and their beating and torture.

Funny how freedom of expression extends to watching women raped and mutilated but have the audacity to suggest that they might think about the circumstances of the workers who make that porn is an outrage. These so-called leftists relish right-wing arguments about and "choice" in porn and sex work, deliberately and willfully ignoring the fact that porn is also produced with enslaved women, girls and boys. While those who do choose that work do so out of economic privation. As they consume that porn, they subsidize slavery and exploitation of free wage labor--free in the Marxist sense, meaning the coercion that propels people to work is economic rather than extra-economic, like physical force or debt peonage. Yet asking them to think about the rights of women workers is an outrage. Of course, there is nothing remotely leftist about such people. They celebrate capitalist commerce in women's bodies, while working diligently to maintain systems of labor exploitation. They might, on occasion, fret about low wage work in fast food, but when it comes to porn and sex work, the conditions of workers mean exactly nothing. Like other reactionaries, they willfully and proudly refuse to think beyond their own wants. It's all about them and no one else on the planet matters in the slightest, and least of all women.

The only choice women have is to be objects of porn, as far as they are concerned. If we dare articulate an argument that suggests violent porn is problematic in anyway, our speech is illegitimate. Freedom as they define it exists for men only. These are people frightened of ideas that in any way challenges their "right" to spend their days and nights thinking about raping and torturing women. Everyone who doesn't seek to normalize violent sexual predatory behavior knows exactly what they are so desperate to justify.

These same individuals are outraged that the WHO would do a report on the global health effects of violence against women. They are outraged that anyone dare talk about the most prolific serial killings of our time in Juarez. They describe rape prevention campaigns as "haranguing." So while working to silence discussion of the actual effects of violence, they defend with great zeal a pornographic genre that profits from rape and mutilation of women. Is it any wonder they seek to silence discussions of the impact of violence against women? Rape and domestic violence depends on silence to thrive, and that is exactly what they work so diligently to enforce. Violence against women has no place in the public sphere unless it is about their arousal. The contrast between their outrage on discussions of violence and women and unyielding support for the most brutal forms of rape porn says everything there is to know about those individuals. They have laid themselves bare for the entire web to see.

[ismnotwasm]

75. Well said!

And speaking of Gay porn, who is the largest purchasers of porn involving Gay women?

Heterosexual Males. 18 to 45 demographic if I recall correctly. Heterosexual males won't touch Gay male porn. You have to wonder why, all these great paragons of sexual freedom. Heterosexism combined with female objectification, does not make one sexually enlightened. Far from it.

[BainsBane]

76. Yet someone accused the feminists of heterosexism

There's a psychology at work there that I don't understand.

[seabeyond]

78. outrage on discussions of violence and women, unyielding support for the most brutal forms of rape p

porn

you laid it out excellently. and no. i do not know or care what they are saying. what i do know, is i heard from different people in different threads that did not participate in the rape porn thread, state how disgusted they were with that thread and the idea that these men were arguing that they must have their rape porn. people really did not want to participate. and yes. people read that thread and came to their own conclusions and the whole feel of it stayed with them.

like it has with us

because to imagine all the work we do to try to bring awareness and understanding toward rape, children and women suffering and then to see so clearly how many men get off on just that, tells all of us something.

i am in the middle of a bbc report on "no sex in japan".

[smirkymonkey]

155. Thank you! Demand creates supply, not the other way around.

The more these freaks demonstrate an appetite for this crap, the faster they will churn it out. Legitimate or not.

[Warpy]

77. Nope, not going to and you can't make me.

My introduction to the weirdness of a lot of male sexuality, especially the fantasy stuff they'd wank to, came when I cleaned out student apartments in Boston one summer. While I did get a lot of stuff they'd left behind (still have a great drafting lamp), they also left sticky porno magazines, heaps of them, and there I was a simple country girl fresh from Dogpatch NC. Mercy me.

I looked at that stuff with astonishment (why would anyone want a woman wearing four inch spike heels and a garter belt to piss on him while he played with his willy in a dry bathtub?) and laughter.

I used to find my ex's porn stash from time to time when he'd move it. I'd just leave it there without comment. Fantasy lives are off limit, IMO.

Unless the parties producing the stuff don't consent to it. Then I want the perps in prison.

[seabeyond]

79. why would a man get off on a woman being put into a meat grinder? nt

says something about the psychic and how men see women. and we experience it in every day life. it matters.

[whathehell]

83. Because, deep down (some less deep) they hate our guts?..Backlash to feminism, too, I'd say.

This cover came out in the late seventies, I believe.

[seabeyond]

84. yup. and has had a quater of a century to fester. and here we sit. jack off to rape.

not the obvious fake game role playing. but, to actual .... rape.

[whathehell]

85. I'm not sure what you mean about

jacking off to "actual rape"...Are you saying there is a commercial online porn business featuring

actual rape scenes?...I know about the high school and college skeeves that rape drunk girls

at parties and then film it, but I'm interested in knowing if there is something bigger than that (yeah, I know,

that's bad enough).

[seabeyond]

87. from what i understand in the massive struction of the sex trade, on line porn

there are three major compaines. now, all this simply from memory. that they have life 80's, 90's% of the online porn. that they are participants in sex slave. and using women and children common. hence... if not concerned about how rape porn effects mens mind, for the sake of all women, how about looking at it that the rape porn, or majority is against free will, without a voice, being raped, abused, brutalized.

[seabeyond]

88. so yes, went from the fake role play, to rape is fun.

the ripple out of this is amazing, if anyone cared to actually think about it. especially as we look around society. and our own little world of du

[whathehell]

89. Jeebus..I forgot about the Sex Trafficking...Yes, that sounds credible.

I guess the first thing to do is make serious efforts at stopping this hideous "trade"...A SLAVE trade.

[BainsBane]

98. I tend to think it is far less centralized than that

[BainsBane]

96. Yes, there is actual rape

There was an entire camp/farm in Thailand where women were kept and raped for porn. I provided links in that thread that show the link between human trafficking and porn. Clearly any porn with an enslaved person is rape, even if doesn't appear to be rape to the viewer.

A good deal of rape porn is billed as being real. I'm guessing most of it isn't, but the viewers like to believe women are actually being raped. If that weren't the case, it's producers wouldn't claim it was real.

[Warpy]

90. That was over the top satire and a reaction against "ugly" feminists protesting beauty pageants

and Flynt took his lumps over that one and didn't repeat the exercise, at least not on the cover. He pissed off a lot of people and his sales fell.

I've known as many women as men who read Hustler. His low humor is appealing to them.

[seabeyond]

93. yea, i get it is a giggle to stick a dick in a womans mouth to shut her up. i laugh all over the

fuckin' place.

i am glad flynt lived and learned.




two and a half decades later.

[BainsBane]

95. Obviously because they hate women

[whathehell]

86. I agree completely and I'm sick of these sick fucks trying to avoid that characterization

by saying it's "just a fantasy". I don't necessarily think these people "act it out" in a non-consensual way,

but no one can tell me that these "tastes" are completely independent of who they are as people.

As I said on the "rape porn" thread: Women (or anyone, really) who get off on being demeaned have low self-esteem.

People who get off on hurting or demeaning others, however "consensually", are people I definitely do NOT want to meet.

[BainsBane]

97. I find it quaint that they complain people called them rape apoligists

Perhaps someone did in that thread, but no one needs to call them anything. Their words speak for themselves. That rape apology bridge was crossed long before that thread.
As for me, I was quite clear that I believe rape porn appeals to rapists and wannabe rapists.

[whathehell]

101. The reason I asked you if you read Susan Brownmiller's "Against Our Will" is because she deals with

not only rape, but pornography, violent porn especially, as well.

There is one part of the book that bears repeating. She mentions the protections

other groups, racial minorities, etc., get and that liberals quite rightly support, but she contrasts it

to the LACK of support those same liberals often give women, especially when it comes to porn.

The book was written in the late 1970's, before the internet, when "adult book stores"

were common. She formed a group called "Woman Against Pornography", and, she would

routinely take groups of women to these stores to show them JUST how vile and violent this porn was,

because women didn't know since they rarely patronized them. What they found were whole sections

devoted to "special" porn, like "Mutilation"...Yes, they actually had their own section.

In her book, she made a great point, IMO, when she said this, and I paraphrase just a tad:

Imagine that the adult book stores in Times Square were lined, not with the rape and torture of women,

for "entertainment", but the lynching of Blacks or the gassing of Jews...Do you think that would be tolerated"?

No, it wouldn't -- but the liberal mind set, so quick to make the connection between Little Black Sambo and Frito

Bandito and poor treatment of the groups represented by those characters, are fiercely obdurate when it

comes to the treatment of women. The "sin" of looking prudish or puritanical is the worst sin of all".

I thought she pretty well nailed it with this.

[BainsBane]

107. Was that in the rape porn thread?

Because I have stopped reading any responses to me there.
Your points are excellent. I have not read the book but will try to do so.

Did you see the guy who swore that he had never even heard of a feminist who opposed pornography? Jesus.

[seabeyond]

109. ah ha. who was that. that is funny. hmmm. well, i have my theory on that one

but would depend who it was.

[whathehell]

111. I think so, yeah...but it was the last thing I posted there, I believe, so you may not have seen it.

Thanks for the compliment, and yes, I would definitely recommend the book.

Ms. Brownmiller got a lot of buzz for that book...She was written up in Time, Newsweek, etc,

and in fact I believe she received some kind of national award. She started the Women Against Pornography

group in New York (I attended one conference then way back in the late 70's) but so much internal

dissension followed among Feminists about Porn -- a lot of them went the way of the old First Amendment Defense,

and it just kind of died, as an issue, unfortunately.

For what it's worth, there IS a man, believe it or not, named Robert Jenson, who heads up an anti-porn group.

I can't remember the name of it, but they've had some meetings at a college, whose name I can't remember,

.."Wheelock"?...Does that sound right?...They show how really BAD porn has become and they actually even provide

counselors (!) for the women who come to see it -- I'll be honest -- I so want to support these efforts, but I do

find exposure to the worst of it affects me too much, mentally and emotionally...Even arguing on that thread,

put me in a funk...I'm glad we can come here and discuss things in peace...That being said, I do think it needs to

be confronted...I just have to do it "in doses", I guess, because it's so upsetting.

As for your question -- No, I didn't see that guy's post, but it doesn't surprise me -- You know the last post I wrote,

where I said "Women's right to equality outweighs men's "right" to a sick erection"?...Well, Lumberjack Jeff

just responded to that by telling me that I'm "against erections"....He "thanked" me for "dropping the pose" that our objections to rape

porn had anything to do with women's welfare, and accused me, or feminists in general, of wanting to PUNISH men.

[seabeyond]

113. i listen to jensen. he is very good. he is a professor out of UT in austin texas, right?

i listened to one of his more recent. by 43 minutes was so grossed out... you know a dick in the butt then the mouth so men can make women literally eat shit...

ya. that.

i stopped. i really needed to get back to that video.

[whathehell]

117. Yes, I believe that's the guy..

I feel like you do....I can only take so much, although that would seem to be a disadvantage

in the struggle.

[BainsBane]

114. Here we have the crux of the matter

Everything is about them. Our lives are entirely insignificant. We want to punish men by making it a little harder for them to watch women being raped and mutilated.
What kind of world is it that women object to being raped and dismembered for male enjoyment, whether those videos are reenactments or as real as the producers claim. If you do a search you will see that rape porn is billed as being entirely real. Its viewers want to think it's real, whether it is or not. It's bad enough snuff porn is illegal. Now we want to cut down on rape? The horror. Evidently those individuals think men by their very nature thrive off fantasies of being violent predators. It seems to me they have a far more negative of their own gender than we do. This thread shows how many good men there are who actually like women, something defenders of extreme rape porn cannot possibly imagine.

I haven't read anything in that thread since yesterday and am simply ignoring the yellow tabs. Even yesterday I only read a couple of responses. I know members who have been on DU for longer than I have done the rape porn battle before. That was my effort. Now I'm done. The only positive thing that came from that thread is they have exposed exactly what they are, in case anyone had any lingering doubts.

Edit: I lied. I just went to bookmark that thread so I don't lose track of the rape porn defenders, and read a post where someone accused me of trivializing rape by objecting to rape porn, and insisted I didn't know what consent was. Evidently consent is something now determined only by men.

[MadrasT]

116. It absolutely amazes me

the lengths some of these guys go to to assert and defend their "right" to attain orgasm any way they damn well please, no matter who gets hurt in the process. And supposedly we all are supposed to shut up and bow to the mighty male "need" to squirt their semen whenever, wherever, and however they wish.

As if.

[whathehell]

118. Yes...Some years back, two feminists, Catherine McKinnon and Andrea Dworkin, I believe

filed a suit in Minnesota against demeaning porn, arguing that, while it may be "protected" by the First Amendment,

it diminishes women's FOURTH Amendment rights to Equality -- They have done studies which indicated that,

after watching "rape" and other violent porn, male subjects were LESS inclined to think of women as equals.

The judge basically said this: "Yes, this material may diminish women, may expose them to insult and abuse,

BUT -- disallowing it takes away MEN's RIGHTS to view what they want to".

It's all there -- Yeah...Their sick erections count for MORE than the condition of OUR lives!

[smirkymonkey]

157. I am thouroughly repulsed to the point where I am considering celibacy as a way of life.

[smirkymonkey]

156. Exactly right. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with someone who actually gets turned on

by seeing another human being being raped, abused and tortured. I mean, serioulsy, WTF?

[BainsBane]

99. Hey, did you all see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12594141

I didn't see the post 11 Bravo is referring to.

[ismnotwasm]

100. A jury let that stand?

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised

[BainsBane]

108. While fat insults against Chris Christie are hidden 6-0

Mind you, I support such hides. In fact I was on that 6-0 jury. It would be nice, however, if women were afforded that level of respect.

[Sheldon Cooper]

119. You didn't see it?

AZ Mike (160 posts)
14. AGREED!!!

Bashir should have "stood his ground".

Sarah "The Whore of Babble On" Palin likes to use crosshairs in political campaigns, play the race card against our black president, and diminish the most horrific institution of American slavery by likening healthcare access to it. Not only should someone shit in her mouth, I'd be happy to be the Darby in this equation. Palin is a fully idiotic moral supremacist and a dose is just what she needs to shut her the hell up....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024055777

Oh yeah, it's allowed to stand. Pretty sweet system around here, isn't it?

[BainsBane]

120. But a jury won't think twice

about hiding your reposting of it. That's because pointing about misogyny is seen as a greater affront than engaging in it.

[Sheldon Cooper]

121. Sigh. Yeah, you're probably right.

gravity collapse seems pretty sure that admin will come along and take out the trash, but I'm not that optimistic.

[BainsBane]

122. Not gonna happen

It would have already been done. Though it might contribute to the poster's tally.

[BainsBane]

123. Question

This is the single most offensive response to me in that entire thread. Does anyone know WTF is up with this person? If this member is male or female?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4058796

[ismnotwasm]

124. No

But it's a bullshit answer that makes no sense whatsoever. I've noticed that type of "go on the offensive" tactic, used either to insult or intimidate, attack the person, detract from the topic and not actually address the issue. Usually means they've run out of options for argument.

It's also typical derailment. In this particular case, I'd say a male who enjoys Rape porn judging from the defensiveness of the ?oh so upsetting? (I mean who gives a shit?) "you're going on ignore" comment, with the twisted weirdness of the whole answer.

Those never fail to amuse.

[seabeyond]

125. ya. that is what i feel. a man into the rape porn doesnt want to hear so many films he is

Last edited Thu Nov 21, 2013, 10:57 AM - Edit history (1)

getting off on is really women being raped. hence, of course he can enjoy rape film cause it is not real. rape is serious. do not project that i might be getting off on real rape, when clearly they said it was simulated.

[duffyduff]

133. That is a bizarre answer in that link.

People don't go into porn unless there are financial pressures. The same with prostitution.

If there are financial and other pressures, such as threat of violence, to do something, it isn't consensual.

[seabeyond]

126. i guess my concluding response would be. NO. you can not make rape porn a norm.

it will always be a perversion and i will always state that it is a harmful perversion that some in our society is feeding off the worst of who we are.

[BainsBane]

129. but on DU it's a civil right

Whereas the right of women to be free from rape, inconsequential.

[KitSileya]

127. I'm wading into the cesspool that is the follow-up thread.

Bainesbane has done such a great job in it.

[BainsBane]

128. Thank you, but I must stop

I must find a way to stop or I will drive myself crazy.

Did you see the one who argued that I was invoking a strawman in accusing rape porn defenders of not caring about the lives of actual women who make the porn or those who are raped following its dissemination? If we don't define the topic in as narrow terms as they do, that focuses only about their own sexual "freedom," then it's a strawman. Un-fucking real.
Strawman now apparently means raising an argument they don't want to deal with.

[KitSileya]

130. Yeah, I was wondering how long you'd be able to "wade in the cesspool."

It is definitely allowed to step back and decide you've had enough. I really appreciate what you've done in those two threads, but you need to think about your own health and life first.

I do find it interesting that of the three that replied to me, two haven't rebutted my last arguments. I'm sure they will, but still... I do need to step back too, simply because it's beddy-bye-bye time here! The joy of living at GMT+1 - I always miss the really heated discussions on DU - either I'm asleep or at work!

[BainsBane]

131. Where do you live?

Are you in Europe?

[KitSileya]

132. Yeah, Norway.

So, after a very long Friday, my bed is calling my name.

[seabeyond]

134. that is why i cannot do these threads anymore. same ole argument. ignore. repeat.

the constant claim that EVERYONE is opposed to rape as they sexualize rape, watch actual rape without concern or care, blurs the line to rape as merely a fetish, normalize rape.

and they seriously act as if they are clueless. regardless how many times repeated. how many ways it is said.

that is why i started the thread about the 14 yr old boy raped using rape porn as a therapy for him to heal. in essence, when saying rape down, rape porn stops men from raping, that is exactly how what they are saying. how does that look? not pretty.

[BainsBane]

135. I didn't see that thread

I Googled and saw rape porn about Indian gang rape, military rape, drunk girl rape. They are clearly appealing to guys who see a news story about a horrific rape, like in India, and think, "that's hot." How is that not feeding sexual predators?

[seabeyond]

138. you guys talk about the movies. and how the rape in movies is used to repulse.

but it was in generals daughter. an excellent movie if you have not seen it. the generals daughter was military and she was gang raped. in the movie she had herself tied down. stripped, spread eagle. she was telling her father how he made her feel, to ignore what happened to her. an excellent cry for help and appeal for compassion of the pain she went thru and worse, a father that would not acknowledge that pain.

moving moment.

but then, i noticed in that scene. the camera angles just so, the oiled body, the lighting, how she tilted and arched for the shot. and i am thinking, in the most horrific experience of her life, finally telling her father what she is feeling the fuckin camera is sexualizing it all, for the male entertainment. it was at that point, i turned on this bullshit in the movies. instead of making the rape horrendous, down adn dirty, repulsive. they sexualized and sensualized the rape in that scene.

they have done it in at least one other movie i know about.

that is normalizing this rape porn into our every day life.

i didnt see clock whatever orange, or some of the other movies. i hate rape movies so there are not that many i can discuss. but the one in generals daughter truly disappointed me and that was when i had a clear view that rape was being used to excite, not horrify.

are you surprised that real stories of real horrendous rape is being a turn on for men? the laura whatever story, i could hardly go into those threads, almost hearing the excitement of recounting her experience, or what might also have been done to her.

it all feeds.

normalizes.

[ismnotwasm]

136. It's moronic

And they appear to actually believe it. Oy

[BainsBane]

137. What it is

Is an absolute and determined refusal to consider anything outside of their own wants.

[smirkymonkey]

158. Not surprising considering so many of them are selfish fucking pigs,

particularly when it comes to sex.

[seabeyond]

139. do you know the most offensive i think. some of us have been raped. knowing ... men are getting off

on our rape. maybe not our personal experience in rape... but, their love of rape, and getting off on rape, is in essence them saying, that they are getting off on our own personal experience of rape. that what i experienced would have them watching and being entertained by my experience. maybe that is why when a poster states he has been watching rape for 6 years and he is so fuckin totally healthy, my reaction is god... i do not want a face to face with that person. total creep. ya know. if you experienced rape, who the fuck would want to be around someone that starts jacking off when they see one????

[ismnotwasm]

140. Good point

A lot of them look pretty realistic. Ugly, ugly crap. Especially when they use very young looking women, or is out and out racist. Just all of it actually

How come no one brings up the racism in porn?

And what's this shit with bringing SMBD into it? That is a different topic, and those communities are pretty self regulating. Not my bag, but also not what I'm referring to when I say "rape porn"

[BainsBane]

142. They don't shut up about that

"You're passing judgement on BDSM." No one is fucking mentioning BDSM but them. We're talking about rape. It's like they think BDSM guys are all rapists or something? That was weird.

[MadrasT]

144. Their personal BDSM activity is a *completely* different subject.

I, too, am perplexed as to why they think this is the same topic.

Nobody is talking about confiscating their flogs, whips, and ball gags. And BDSM "rape' scenes are not rape. The participants consent and there are rules and safeguards. It's an elaborate play.

All I have learned from these threads is that there are some pretty self absorbed men here who think their "right" to ejaculate in any manner conceivable is absolute and supercedes all other considerations.

[BainsBane]

141. Exactly. How is it that something like that can't penetrate the consciousness

of those defending rape porn? It's as though nothing you say to them can convince them to consider our rights, or the humanity of the women raped for male enjoyment on film and those subsequently raped as a result of the dissemination of porn. They just refuse to address that aspect. We're "moralistic" because we find the eroticization of rape culture repulsive, that men get off on seeing women's lives destroyed. (That part reminded me of the film on Sor Juana).

I was literally told I had no right to judge anyone who gets off on rape. When I compared it to the kind of judgments liberals make all the time about labor exploitation and dangerous work places, one responded saying "I didn't say liberals didn't have a right to judge. I said YOU don't have a right to judge." (You're a woman opposing the fact I get my rocks off watching women raped, so you don't have a right to speak.) it's not surprising that men who hate women so completely that they think watching them raped and dismembered is erotic would not give a flying fuck what any woman says to them. Our rights and our lives mean NOTHING to men like that.

The comment from one that we are "trying to punish men" by arguing against rape porn exemplifies more than anything an absolute inability to care about anything but their own desires. Those women are not human. They are objects of male erotic rage, and the rest of us who are raped by men who find watching it on film isn't fulfilling enough and then seek the real thing are not worth thinking about for a second. There is not a clearer demonstration of their contempt for women and their lives than those rape porn threads. Clearly their own arousal is far more important than our right to safety or life. What could possibly be more misogynistic than that?

I Google raped porn and saw ads for watching "Indian gang rape." "See drunk girl raped." "Watch military women raped." These are real life rapes from the newspapers than have inspired this porn to appeal to men so twisted that they see a story about Indian gang rape and think, "that sounds hot."

Know who else got off on rape porn? Ariel Castro and Ted Bundy. They learned their craft from that shit. http://www.salon.com/2013/08/01/ariel_castro_says_his_addiction_to_porn_made_him_keep_three_women_captive_for_more_than_a_decade/

There are sites advertising "basement cellar sex" for men who want to keep women locked up like Castro did. You know no person who doesn't feel inadequate gets off on shit like that. They are men so weak that they feel they can only achieve a sense of power by watching women abused and violated for kicks or then even doing the same thing in real life.

[ismnotwasm]

145. That's the thing

I have no qualms about looking up porn or looking at porn. Who do they think they're kidding.

And citing poorly designing studies as the end all answer " porn reduces rape"-- no it doesn't.

Edit; I've been wading through a number of studies and they are conflicting, depending how they are designed, how rape is defined, etc.

[smirkymonkey]

159. +10,000

[Tumbulu]

143. I cannot do it

but thanks for all the excellent posts in my thread.

I was ready to quit DU last night (after getting my post in the first long one hidden) and posted that and went to sleep.

All day I was so busy, I had a huge order to get out and lots of communications with customers and a lab and it was terribly windy and I had to feed hay to my 140 sheep as a coyote has got back into the midday attack mode (right when the guardian dogs are sleeping from being up all night chasing coyotes) ....so I looked at it this evening.

I find it really disgusting that so many DU'er defend torture and violence against women. Openly and with pride!

I find all of you to be eloquent. Thanks.

[BainsBane]

146. ick

I am through with those people for good. I added several to my ignore list.

[ismnotwasm]

147. Yeah

I'm rereading a few of my books to get my stats straight for reference.

Talking to some of them makes me understand they simply blithely ignoring historical background's effect on current events when it's convenient and get their statistics from that idiot misogynist in California or articles from Slate. Although they love DOJ stats-- which is a whole other topic.

I can't teach a class here, and I've seen your well-reasoned and verifiably factual arguments countered with ridiculous emotionalism.

[BainsBane]

148. It's all about justifying sexual predation and an industry that eroticizes it

So facts and evidence mean nothing. Everything is about what they want, and the effects on others are inconsequential.

[NuclearDem]

149. I'm so glad I didn't get involved in any of those threads.

I don't watch porn, and I'm just fine with that.

[pitbullgirl1965]

165. Fuck this

I am done with this place, and this is a big reason, that the jokes about lynching, and the anti choice fuck heads here. Go to the Daily Kos: it's not perfect, but this shit is NOT tolerated.
I have the same username except it's 65, not 1965

[BainsBane]

166. lynching, seriously?

Thanks for the headsup Pitbullgirl. Let me know if you're interested in staying in touch on Facebook.

[BainsBane]

186. 4-2, better than no hide

but I share your disgust. It is thoroughly repugnant. (Speaking of hides, you might want to edit part of your post dealing with the ATA message).

[gollygee]

168. It's really frustrating

They're talking about something completely different than what I'm talking about. They keep talking about BDSM and safe words. If there's a safe word, it isn't rape. The only way BDSM would be relevant would be if someone ignored the safe word and kept going beyond the boundary. That would be like what I'm talking about.

If these videos are being sold as real rape, whether they are or not, then that means that someone finds "real rape" to be a selling point. They are wanting to watch a real rape. That is a problem.

And there were people saying, "So if women have rape fantasies, it's bad, but if men have rape fantasies it's ok?" Either they completely don't get it, or they're scary. What women have is more like BDSM fantasies with a safe word. They play with the idea of control and dominance, but they are in a safe place. If any partner fantasizes about that kind of play, with a safe word, where there is consent and no one would go past anyone's boundaries, then it isn't a rape fantasy. If anyone, of any gender, fantasizes about forcing someone to do something sexual against their will, then that is a problem. Are these guys saying that they fantasize about BDSM with women, or are they saying they fantasize about raping women? If rape is the fantasy - if that's the pinnacle of sexual enjoyment for them - if that's what they dream of doing - then I'm really disturbed by that. I hope that's not what anyone is saying, and I don't think it is or they wouldn't deny the survey that 56% of college men said they'd rape if they could get away with it.

So I assume we're actually talking past each other to some point, or at least I hope so. They aren't actually saying it's cool for people to want to commit the act of rape?

And watching people get raped isn't like shoot-em-up games because people playing those aren't fantasizing about killing people. They're into shooting, but it's obviously fake, and if it were advertised as actually people getting killed (whether true or not) people would find it disturbing and wouldn't enjoy it.

One other thing. We can't be too surprised if phonographic videos are being marketed as being actual scenes of real rapes, and then people (such as the kids in Steubenville but they aren't alone in this) are videotaping themselves and their friends as raping and thinking it's totally fine to do that.

[seabeyond]

169. i spent a lot of time and posts the there night drawing the picture of a difference between men and

women in fantasy

a woman has done to her
a man does
a woman fantasy is her deciding what is done to her
a mans fantasy is what he will do to her
a woman has control what is done to her
a man has control what he does to a woman

a woman cannot be rape in her rape fantasy
a man rapes in his rape fantasy

can it be any clearer. we all know biology. we have all had sex. this really is not tough

they went around supposedly clueless.

[gollygee]

171. There are men who like to be acted upon

and women who like to act upon. But it's still within the world of safe words and consent and boundaries.

Are they saying they want to act upon without consent and safe words and all that? IS that the fantasy? The videos being marketed as actual rapes, and that being a selling point that must make them sell more (or it wouldn't be used in the marketing) does make me wonder. The people responding to that marketing are wanting to rape and that's scary. If someone buys a video that says it's a real rape and is OK with watching it, and especially if they are sexually gratified by watching a video that says it's a real rape, that's scary.

But that has nothing to do with BDSM. Why do they keep talking about BDSM?

[seabeyond]

173. ask them about rape in film and htey are ALL over the dilverance film. not rape scenes of women

you know, the brutal, graphic, sexualized rape scene so often in the guys movies to entertain them. but.... they will talk about deliverance.

look at the deliverance scene. 43 sec of actual rape. nothing shown but the faces. going off the rape to voight and then back to rape. not much seen. all gruesome. THAT sticks with me. that alone. that is being done to a man. and that is NOT sexualized for getting them off. that is what they talk about

FORTY THREE fuckin second.

that would be comparable to men.

how do they get off on actual brutality man to man. well. in porn, the man that is being aggressively handle lets it known he is displeased. a woman? she is luvin it.

not different message there.

and no.... i do not even mess with the piddly play of the man being dominated. it is not pervasive. it is not a norm

[gollygee]

175. I know that isn't as common

That's a deflection point though.

Rape being sexualized - eroticized - is scary. Again, I'm not talking BDSM. That isn't the same thing. Actual rape being made to look sexy. I don't understand how this isn't seen as a problem. This is being marketed as actual rape. That is a marketing tool. "There is no consent here! That makes it really really hot!" And by being bothered by that, we're sex-negative prudes?

[seabeyond]

177. it is in our movies. i have seen two movies where they take a horrible rape and sexualize, eroticize

it. years ago with a very good movie generals daughter. powerful. in a powerful moment, her telling her father her pain.... him not listening, her at her most vulnerable, they fuckin sexualized her. oililng her body, lighting, her movements, camera angles, all while she tells of a brutal gang rape.

the camera is fucking her

all while she tells of a brutal gang rape

the male eye is not hearing, he is being turned on

all. while. she. is. talking. a. brutal. gang. rape.

it is about getting the man off.

that is when i really became aware of this.

and THIS is an excellent movie.

people think i am being a prude.

[BainsBane]

179. One person who insists the very concept of rape culture is "absurd"

put out a challenge to produce the name of one film in which rape and the rapist were portrayed favorably. He got many, many responses. Naturally he ran off.

[seabeyond]

180. yup. and another poster was flabbergasted i would think sex with a consenting 13 yr old in animal

house was wrong, you know... rape

[BainsBane]

181. Are you serious?

Did you alert on that Sea?

[seabeyond]

182. i do not bother with alerts much. nt

[BainsBane]

170. The fact they have been told all that

by so many different women so many times and still refuse to understand shows they simply do not care.

[gollygee]

172. I'm trying to figure out just what they're thinking

1. They don't understand the difference no matter how many times they've heard it.

2. They are OK with watching videos of women being raped, or get off on watching women being raped, or fantasize about raping (not BDSM - no consent or safe words. Actual rape.) They are pretending not to get it and they want to deflect the subject to BDSM because they know how horrible enjoying raping people is.

3. They aren't OK with watching people being raped, but are afraid outlawing porn of non-consensual acts would encroach on porn of consensual acts. If that's where they are, I wish they would say so.

[BainsBane]

174. They see is as about sexual liberty vs. authoritarianism

They see it entirely from the viewpoint of themselves, the porn consumer. They refuse, perhaps are simply unable, to consider any experience or viewpoint but their own. That is what comes from entitlement.

[gollygee]

176. Rape is the antithesis of sexual liberty

That's still a deflection to BDSM then.

[BainsBane]

178. Obviously I don't agree

but they see a firm line between rape porn and rape. They insist one has nothing to do with the other and continue to invoke the trope of "consenting adults." I see it as a clear denial of the rape victim's (and porn actor or actress') humanity, a point I've repeated to great protestations about "straw," which apparently has come to be defined as anything they don't want to think about.

[xulamaude]

183. Perfect du-finition of "straw"! lol nt

[KitSileya]

187. And now we have people claiming that having "sex" with a drunk person isn't rape.

After all, the female (just that tells you what you need to know about this troglodyte) knows what will happen to her if she drinks, so it isn't rape if someone has "sex" with her. And being pressured into sex, you make a trade off, (presumably between blackmail/violence and just 'giving it up', natch) so that isn't rape either. Nor is guilting them into it rape, because you're only letting the females (gag!) evaluate their motives, and letting them see their options.

Now, that poster is bad enough, but 3 jurors on DU let it stand!