The answer I was given to this question blew my mind

[Tuesday Afternoon]

and still does ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4105776

[NYC_SKP]

1. Having only read the question, how FUCKING hard can it be to not have a simple answer?

Seriously. Simple question, two choices, pick one, FFS.

How hard?

SMH.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

2. they did

they said sex.

[Whisp]

6. that poster is always trolling on the edges.

I would ignore him.
He gets his jollies by 'getting away' with posts like that. A real mature one, that one.

I wouldn't feed that thing. (Not you specically, NYC, just generally). Why give him the attention he so wants and needs.

[BainsBane]

20. You ought to read some of the porn threads

and see who is around you on this site. It's eye opening. Then watch some of them go over to the thread about 40 years of rape by college football players, all swept under the rug. Their response is then to talk about an unrelated case where one man was falsely accused. That is used to justify police, prosecutors, and university officials covering up violent crime for half a century. Note some of these people become incensed at rape prevention PSAs, refer to them as misandry (by even inferring that men might have anything to do with rape). Rape prevention campaigns, one insists, amount to "haranguing" men because rape has declined along with every other violent crime (due of course to demographic changes). Of course no one dare insinuate that amounts to rape apology. That's an outrage, while what they do is perfectly acceptable.

[xulamaude]

3. When I read that response I thought

that he just took some of the 'arguing points' he's seen the other guys use and threw them together. What I took away from that was that he is not at all well versed in the politics of pornography.

Reading it again, my assessment remains the same. "Word salad" I think is what they call it.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. It made no sense to me at all.

I am wondering if one must actually experience a rape in order to understand exactly what is rape.

I am NOT talking about fulfilling a rape fantasy either.

What part of rape is NOT understood?

How do you explain rape.

Are they being deliberately obtuse because it suits their porn argument or, are they really that stupid?

I just don't get it. at all.

[xulamaude]

5. That's the feminist question of the ages...

deliberate or stupid?

The vast majority of rapists are men and boys and the vast majority of victims are women, girls and boys. Frankly, except for those men/boys who have been raped (coerced, forcibly, etc.), they have no idea what rape really is. How it ruins all sense of self, of humanity. It IS possible for them to understand it intellectually, if they want to, but as with things like being a parent unless you've been there it isn't the same.

Basically, re porn, they like it so they watch/use/consume it. All else be damned.


(have to do some stuff - be back later!)

[Arcanetrance]

7. Rape really is a completely devastating event I'm a male who was raped as a child

I still have issues from it at 27 like for example to this day I don't like the be touched by anyone regardless of who hey are and how long I've known them.

[xulamaude]

10. It is devestating. And that there are

people who are insensitive (and by that I mean those who cannot have the level of sensitivity that a victim has) to rape - and the radiating issues like questions of consent in 'regular' porn, the use of porn in grooming and the glaring questions revolving around 'rape porn' especially from the victim's perspective, etc - really should listen to the folks who've experienced it.

Sure, they say they're against rape but it seems that they are unwilling/unable to listen.

This is the world that victims live in, as you well know. It's very sad.

[historylovr]

9. Deliberately obtuse.

To acknowledge the realities might make some of them feel uncomfortable, so they have to pretend not to understand.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

12. to me, that is a form of lying and I don't like to deal with

a liar. To fake ignorance when you are, in fact, NOT ignorant is a waste of yours and my time. I don't like to waste my time. I only have so much of it to give and there are others who will appreciate and value my time a lot better than a liar who is really wasting their own time lying to their self.

[Squinch]

13. They know exactly what they are doing. They are not stupid. They are just rationalizing.

Last edited Sun Dec 1, 2013, 02:32 PM - Edit history (2)

As far as I can see, all they seem to be able to come up with is the rationalizations of "what if it's between consenting adults?" and "It isn't just women being raped in rape porn."

However, it is well known by all of them, and well documented throughout these threads, that many rape porn depictions are coerced, many are not between consenting adults, and some are actual rape. And you cannot tell by looking which films are between consenting adults and which films are actual acts of coercion or rape.

Which means that all those who are so vociferously defending rape porn, and certainly all those who use it on any kind of a regular basis, know full well that they are contributing to exploitation and rape. The only questions that remain are: first what percentage of depictions are coerced? and second, exactly how much exploitation and rape are OK with the rape porn defenders?

From the threads lately, it is clear that a certain amount of exploitation and rape are just fine with some DUers. Because, ya know, liberty.

[ismnotwasm]

14. And another part of the problem is

If you use the proper words to describe certain kinds of pornography, your post will be hidden because it would be considered to graphic and offensive.

The irony is rich.

[Squinch]

25. I think some posting about rights don't even realize that.

[smirkymonkey]

18. Could not have said it better.

Thanks!

[duffyduff]

23. The problem is there are NO "consenting adults" in porn other than

the consumer.

The people who participate in the industry as actors or models cannot be said to be "consenting" when it is almost always financial pressures forcing people to degrade themselves to the point of selling sex.

NO sane human being goes into this or to prostitution unless there are serious financial pressures and few or no options.

That is NOT "consent" but coercion.

[Squinch]

24. Oh, but haven't you heard? Lots of guys here on DU know women who went into prostitution because

they like sex and they like meeting new people. ( ) (Yep. Seriously. I have read that here. The self-justification is knee deep.)

But I am not doubting that there is a faction of the rape porn sub-industry that does involve adults who are consenting.

However, I am certain that the rape porn industry includes people who film actual rapes and sell that film for the entertainment of the consumers of rape porn. Some of which consumers, apparently, are right here on DU.

The rights of the consenting adults do not supersede the rights of the women, children and men who are actually being raped for others' entertainment.

And all this yowling among our DU brethren - who say that when I object to the filming of rapes I am undermining the Constitution - is as disgusting as it is infantile, and frankly, stupid.

[xulamaude]

28. ^^^Yes - all of that^^^

To disgusting, infantile and stupid I'd add: gross (in the 'bloated' sense)

[liberalmuse]

26. Thank you.

It's shocking that there are some DUers who would argue against this.

[ismnotwasm]

8. The reality of pornography

Last edited Sat Nov 30, 2013, 06:40 PM - Edit history (1)

The titles, certain acts, the descriptive phrases "horny sluts" "dirty whore" "barely legal" to name a few relatively mild terms aren't easy to defend. The idea of pornography is easier, because so many details are left out. Like the racism inherent in porn. It's a multifactorial issue, but what 'they' want to defend, again is the the idea, not nessisarily certain kinds of porn. Thus threatened, all the answers are reactionary, or equivalent to 12year old snark fest.


'They' are sure miffed at 'HOF' for pissing in their porn Cheerios though. It's pretty funny.

[JI7]

15. Call for ban on violent porn as photographer admits Georgia murder

people want to ignore things like this which is why the UK is looking to regulate certain kinds of porn . this article is from the UK and Georgia refers to the victim, not the state in the US.

why it's so difficult to stop sexual exploitation and other violence against women when even those who claim to be liberal start acting like the gun nuts at even discussion of sensible gun control.


<Campaigners last night called for a ban on pornography featuring violence against women after a photographer addicted to extreme images of abuse admitted murdering a teenage student.

Jamie Reynolds took photographs before and after he choked Georgia Williams, 17, to death after luring her to his home. Then he went on the run to Scotland, sparking a national manhunt.

Police discovered Reynolds, 23, had copied innocent photographs of up to 50 teenage friends and strangers from social networking sites before manipulating them into obscene pornographic images.>

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article3937876.ece

[redqueen]

21. They care more about their boners than women's lives.

That's the ugly truth.

[Tumbulu]

16. You as a group are wonderful writers!

I see that actually, despite the typical noisy porn addicts, regular DU'ers are seeing the issue more clearly. It is important that it be discussed and clarified as the libertarian position is not the liberal one and I do think this defense of all porn is more about the kind of person who spends a lot of time on the Internet rather than actually really representing the general population.

I care so much about this conversation, and am grateful for the intellectual heavy lifters in this group for continuing to point out the real ramifications of this "anything goes as long as it is porn" attitude.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

17. Deregulation or Unregulated Industry is most definitely a Libertarian view.

I also wonder how the Admin define porn given this clause in the ToS ...

Don't post "shock content" or porn.
Do not post or link to extreme images of violence, gore, bodily functions, pain, or human suffering for no purpose other than to shock and disgust. Do not post or link to pornography.

[BainsBane]

19. Completely fucked up. I responded.

[redqueen]

22. I'm not even going to bother clicking.

I see from context it would only piss me off and it's old so what's the point.

But what you said above is correct. These people know full well that there is no way to know for sure whether the woman is being actually raped or "pretend raped".

And they don't give a single fuck. They care about boners, that's it. The bullshit about 'freedom' is just that - bullshit. If they actually cared about freedom, the freedom of women would matter to them. The right to be free from having their recorded rape published as "porn" would actually register.

But no. They just keep jacking off, or defending the wankers who do masturbate to images of women being raped, and throw out glib retorts like "well call the cops if it's illegal". Yeah, cause the cops will have no problem at all identifying people in the porn, and following up and getting evidence and prosecuting rapists. I mean hell, look how easy of a time they have prosecuting the few rapes that are reported! It's simple! Right? Right?

THAT'S how much they care. And hardly anyone says shit about it. Charming.

The truth is so obvious, and it's a fucking slap in the face that so many avert their willfully ignorant eyes.

I hope that when the truth hits them, it hits them hard. Full force. And I hope it hurts for a long time. I hope the realization of what they've defended so vociferously, what they've supported, registers on a very personal level.

[appleannie1]

27. It is an act of violence of the worst kind. It is meant to degrade and make the victim feel totally

worthless, completely helpless and less than filth. That should have been the only answer you got to that question.