Question from a good Guy friend of mine

[ismnotwasm]

I've got a devils advocate sort of subject for your opinion. As long as we use "male" names for males and "female" names for females, do we have any hope of equality? As a male brought up in the era that I was, when I hear something like....Go ask Melissa, or Go ask Mark? Certain subconscious assumptions probably take place. Just my thought today.

I'm at work and can't answer him properly, but what do you guys think?

[Sheldon Cooper]

1. Well if we did that, we would no longer have female names.

People will give their girl a boy's name before they'll give their boy a girl's name.

[mzteris]

14. And eventually,

They become girl names.

Shirley and carrol come to mind off the top,of my head.

[BainsBane]

2. I see that as a non-issue

The only thing it would change is when someone has your name and doesn't know who you are, like in a job application. Once people met in person, any equalization resulting from name ambiguity would be null.

[ismnotwasm]

3. Part of the answer I gave him is that American names are boring

The more interesting the name, the more unisex it tends to be

[cinnabonbon]

4. In the end

I don't think there's anything wrong with gendered stuff. I like the differences between the genders. The only problem is the power structure propping up one of them, and the sexist culture that a lot of people are brought up in. If we can work on taking those down, then it will be easier to see even gendered names as positive, I think.

Even gender neutral names carry certain expectations. For some reason, (in my experience at least) people think that when you have a gender neutral name it means you must be a guy.

I mean, your example could just as easily be "go as her, go ask him.", because we also expect different things simply from knowing their pronouns. If we have to weed out gendered names, we'd also have to weed out gendered pronouns to avoid the same expectations. Plus we'd have to restructure the whole language so that "man" was not the default that means "human"... Plus a bunch of other things to make the language more gender neutral. Wouldn't it be better to change the culture that kids are brought up in, so they can appreciate the wonderful differences between people instead of judging them for them?

[nomorenomore08]

20. I basically agree. I think the problem is more one of trying to fit people into these little boxes

than of masculinity or femininity per se.

[cinnabonbon]

21. People are too complex to be put into little boxes.

I think that gender binarism has something to do with. When people automatically try to fit people into box x or y, instead of entertaining the idea that there are more alternatives than just "stereotypically woman" and "stereotypically male" gender roles, you end up with questions like in the OP.

[BainsBane]

5. OT

I suppose you all noticed the evil feminists OPs in GD.

[ismnotwasm]

7. Yeah it's pretty fucking hilarious

I'll read it once in a while and snicker. I even posted a couple of times. Then I show it to some coworkers, probably shouldn't because it's not DU's finest hour.

[Sheldon Cooper]

10. Heh. I'm always happy for the ignore list, because all I see is one OP about evil feminists.

But I will say that the online dating thread is a real eye-opener.

[BainsBane]

11. I haven't been reading that or any of them

Well it make me nauseous?

[Sheldon Cooper]

12. You will gain a new insight into the psyche of some of the people around here.

Nausea may or may not coincide.

[BainsBane]

17. No, not new insight

but rather confirmation of what I already knew. No surprises for me in that thread.

[xfundy]

6. Hmm, I dunno.

Let's ask Pat!

[ismnotwasm]

8. And that's true too

Like the name Corey, or Chris or Jamie

[geek tragedy]

9. silly argument I think, it's like arguing that we won't have racial

or religious or ethnic equality so long as non-WASPS get names that end in vowels.

[mzteris]

13. I like ambiguous names.

Never ever name your daughter something "girly" if you want her to make it in business.

If you want to increase the odds of of a lesser life use one of those names ending in "y" or "ie" - you know the ones - . . No offense intended to anyone with said name, but you probably know what I'm talking about when I say, you are treated differently because of your name. You know you are.

[BainsBane]

15. I don't buy it

Any different treatment has to do with gender, of which a name is only a marker.

[JustAnotherGen]

19. I agree

IRL my name is Adrienne. It's a unisex name - though men in American tend to have it spelled Adrian. And often my name gets confused with the male version on email chains - and then people in the company meet/speak to me and are surprised I'm a woman. But their treatment of me does not change.

Though . . . if you are familiar with the program Entourage - I've been getting called Adrienne Gold since 2006 around here.

And I'm okay with that - because ambition, bold language, risk taking, and demanding flawless execution of co-workers are female traits.

[ismnotwasm]

16. This was my original answer and his response

I think gender differences are always going to be with us. What I'd like to see is less intensity of cis-heteronormativity. So that it's cool to name a boy Fred or or Susan, or a girl Jane or Mark-- if you're paying attention to your gut reactions to those particular examples, there's probably an instinctive repulsion-- but more for the male than
The female. Interesting question, American names are boring; anyway

His reply

You lost me at cis-heteronormativity hehe, but after I google it I will have learned something today and for that I thank you. Evolving toward more respect for all fellow humans would be my fantasy (and I don't really see it happening). What would adolescence be without gender differences Aloha

[MadrasT]

18. Interesting thought experiment.

I think that societal expectations associated with gender is the root cause of the problem... so any assumptions we make by hearing a name that we consider to be "gendered" are just things made up in our head. It would be cool to shake that up more often with A Boy Named Sue (love me some Johnny Cash), and girls named Bob, but I don't think that stripping people of gender identity = equality.

Even with my complete lack of gender identity, and no understanding of what it means to feel "female", I recognize that having a gender seems to be an integral part of most people's identity and folks shouldn't have to mask or abandon that in order to be "equal".

Though I think it would be cool if there were very "feminine" women running around named Frank, George, and Justin; and very "masculine" men running around named Maria, Juliette, and Roxanne... I don't think the naming is the root of the problem. But switching up names might raise some awareness that the problem of expectation of proper/normal gender behavior runs so deep.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. if you have a gender neutral name

does that make you a gender traitor?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

cheap shots and all.