Introduction and finding out if DU is right for me

[Token Republican]

Hello everyone.

First off, I'd like to say hello to everyone. I've been lurking here about a year and finally made an account.

Before I start posting too much, other than the required 10 posts to start a topic, I wanted to make sure that DU is ok with my joining, and vice versa too.

As my name implies, I'm not exactly coming from a left background. On some issues, my views would be considered conservative, right, or whatever label one chooses. On other issues, my views are very liberal or left. More often than not, the reasons behind my views are a little different than most, even if the conclusions are the same. In real life, I consider myself a token republican due to the many disagreements I have with where the R party is going. I thought that name would work here, as both a reflection of my RL views and as a play on words in my being a token republican here. At least on some issues.

I've read the TOS and see that this site is focused on left leaning politics, and also on electing democrats to office.

My question is whether this site is geared more towards advancing liberal policies, as opposed to advancing democratic candidates. Over the past year, I've read a lot of posts that I agree with. What I also see are many posts that I can't see the logic behind the arguments. Sometimes facts are dead wrong or distorted. Other times, the application of facts seems to miss the mark. In fairness, I say the same thing about right wing positions too.

What I'm hoping I can add, assuming its consistent with DU, is give a better understanding as to how someone with more middle views would see the various topics, and more importantly, how to convey liberal ideas to middle of the road people in a way that would give a greater likelihood of implementing liberal ideas. If that's ok, then I'd be happy to stay and contribute. If it getting people to understand and support liberal politicians is a secondary effect, I'm good with that.

If on the other hand, the main focus of DU is to advance liberal politicians, with policies taking a second role, then DU is probably not for me. I've rejected that approach on the repub side too, for what its worth.

For some specifics about my views, here they are for disclosure only.

Gay Rights - strong advocate.
Separation of church and state - strong advocate of keeping religion out of govt
Creationism v evolution issues - its disgusting that we are still debating evolution in the 21st century

Taxes - a bit of a mixture here. I'm also a bit of a tax code addict, and there's a lot of false information on both sides as to how taxes work. My view here is there can't be any meaningful change on taxes without understanding what we have and don't have. Essentially, my biggest complaint is most who advocate on tax issues one way or the other haven't done the math.

Moral Laws - abolish them.

Role of government - more conservative here but not a fanatic either. I think gov't can do a world of good, but I see it as a toxic drug. Too much can do harm.

Second Amendment - this is actually how I found the DU. I might contribute at some point, but I'd probably be banned. So I'll stay out of those discussions in the safe haven group.

Reagan - don't hate him. don't like him. I don't think he's as evil as many here think, but I enjoy cutting him down to size among right wingers too.

Bush II - voted for him first time. Lets leave it at that.

Obama - I think he became president 4 or 8 years too early. Had he had a little more experience under his belt, I think he could have been far more effective.

Future elections - convince me!

Anyway, I've read many times on DU when I was lurking that people wished more right leaning people would come here and learn. I'm willing to do that, and hopefully give a little insight as to how to reach out to more center based people too.

So I guess just let me know in this thread if DU is open to someone with these views. If not, no feelings will be hurt and I can respect that.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Welcome to DU, Token Republican!

If I remember correctly, the major thing our members are supposed to do, is to support and vote for Democrats. If you start by supporting Republican or other party candidates, you will find yourself on the outside looking in.

You're obviously intelligent, and I hope there will be many good conversations between you and the other members. There are things we all need to learn.

Take the time to look around at the Forums and Groups too. There are many smaller, quieter places where we gather, and where you might find kindred souls.

Again, Welcome!

[Scuba]

2. Firstly, I admire your moxie ...

Secondly, about 20% of the posters here are right-wingers posing as liberal Democrats trying to stir shit any way they can. If that's your plan, you've already outed yourself.

Thirdly, I can't support the abolishment of moral laws. Murder, theft, etc., need to be left on the books. (What? You meant something else? Please elaborate.)

As for role of government, I'd say it's less a question of too much/too little than a question of how it's applied, although looking at our vastly overbloated military, it's clearly a "too much" problem there. I noticed you omitted mentioning the military. An oversight, no doubt.

Now, please educate us all about the math behind the tax code. Us poor ignorant liberals really need your help there.

[Token Republican]

8. Thanks!

Hi Scuba & thanks for the welcome.

I have no intention of posing as something I'm not, that too was part of the reason I chose my name and made the intro post.

By moral laws I meant morality based legislation advanced by the far too right side. Such as outlawing homosexuality, adultery, or anything that tries to impose a way of life based on some moral code. I certainly don't mean criminal acts against others such as murder. LOL.

Military - aye. Too big. I could have posted more disclaimers, but I hope I gave enough to give a sense as where I am coming from.

Tax stuff - I suspect you don't need that much help. But to elaborate, our tax code is such a convoluted mess that any discussion about rates is nearly meaningless without knowing the exceptions, exceptions to the exceptions, and exceptions to the exceptions to the exceptions.

[Scuba]

14. Thanks Token, and indeed, a hearty welcome. Sorry I failed to include that in my earlier post.

I'm particularly curious about your comment that economic issues are what pushes you to consider yourself a Republican.

Since Republican administrations have a horrid record on economics, spending like drunken sailors while cutting taxes for the wealthiest, putting our country deeper and deeper in debt, how do you reconcile that? Or is that they type of economics you want?

[rrneck]

3. Welcome aboard. You won't lack for attention. nt

[denverbill]

4. I'm not sure how you will fare here, but I welcome you.

I appreciate your honesty, and I think for someone who is probably more conservative than most DUers, you seem to be thoughtful and at least somewhat open to the opinions of others.

I'm not sure how the mods will feel though. Personally, I think as long as you are self-identifying as a Republican, I'd give you a pass, but it's not my website. I think we have an awful lot of Republican trolls here who are more than happy to sow dissension, argue only on one topic where DUers frequently disagree (guns in particular) and generally just make DU a worse place, but they like to pretend to be liberals.

I personally think as long as you keep your posts policy-based and fact-based I'd welcome a dissenting opinion. I don't have any problem with civil debate.

[uppityperson]

5. If you support the policies you say here, how can you call yourself a Republican?

Which of what you write are Repub positions? It seems most of those are backed by Democrats.

Why would you vote for Republicans that support the opposite of what you write here?

[Token Republican]

9. The Token part of my name

applies to RL too.

Economically I'm more towards the right side, but not 100% by any means.

Same on limits to government. To expand somewhat, I get the general distrust on big corporations that the left has. I also have that. But I don't see the government being an absolute answer either. The same people who fall into a lifestyle of greed and corruption in the corporate world can easily switch over to the political world. This is one stumbling block I have as to why I can't fully support liberal thinking, at least not until I have a reason that I can understand how crooks corporations won't fester and grow in government.

And finally, I don't support republicans that support the opposite of what I posted. This is one of the reasons I joined here.

[uppityperson]

11. Which is a more appropriate use of tax money and government? Bonus question also

Military or schools? Or perhaps it might be better to ask how much money should go to each since otherwise we are comparing apples to dogs.

Bonus question is how do you feel about Libertarians, do you support them?

Thanks for taking time to answer.

[Token Republican]

12. answer

You ask two different questions. The government's use of tax funds for the military is entirely appropriate. But I think you really mean is the amount of funds being spent appropriate for 2014. My view is no, and has been since the 1980s. Bloated military spending is a waste of scarce tax dollars. It also has insidious side effects. By being one of the more lucrative job creators for engineering and manufacturing, excess military spending removes many of our top employees from the private sector, which in turn, hurts our ability to create jobs. And to take it one step further, if the taxes spent on the military was spent in R&D, it would be a much better return on our investment.

But back to the military, I think we need to seriously reduce our world commitment.

For schools, yes but not the way we currently fund them. Property based taxes to fund schools helps insure that the wealthy get the better education. Public education has its problems, but is still one of the best expenditures of tax dollars.

And for the bonus question. Libertarians. Meh. They have some good ideas and I some concepts I agree with .. in concept. But when it comes down to the nuts and bolts, I'm realizing that a lot of libertarian positions are wishy washy. Case in point - from the libertarian website.

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.

That's just a fancy way of saying they oppose Roe v Wade.

Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality, accountability and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Recognizing that the education of children is a parental responsibility, we would restore authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. Parents should have control of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children's education.

That's a fancy way of saying it sucks to be poor.

Libertarians support the rights recognized by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, and property. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure should include records held by third parties, such as email, medical, and library records. ...


They get this part right.

[uppityperson]

13. Thank you for answering so directly. I greatly appreciate it. I do not understand how, with the view

views you give, you can vote for Republicans as they directly oppose your views. Another day, another continuation of the discussion.

[Kali]

6. fuck ron paul

[Make7]

7. You might want to try posting a thread about taxes in the 'Economy' group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1116

See how the discussion develops in a smaller setting before attempting to tackle what will likely be a contentious subject a big forum like General Discussion.

Welcome to DU. Choosing that username is bound to raise quite a few eyebrows here. I guess you'll have to see if you will still want to stick around after gauging the reception.

[Token Republican]

10. Thanks for the welcomes

thus far.

Unless told otherwise, I'll tread into the waters slowly, and focus on the areas where my views do fit in.

[OKNancy]

15. I don't know. You sound like a Legacy Republican to me

You sound like you are only a Republican because perhaps your family was, and your social circle is.
It's what is expected of you.

With the exception of voting for Bush, you sound like a Libertarian leaning mainstream Democrat.

Since Federal income taxes are at the lowest rates in many decades, are you talking about other tax problems?

Mainstream Democrats have no intention of messing with the second amendment, but many would like to have the culture of guns change.
I think most would like some restrictions by law, but also as in the case of cigarettes, change the culture by public awareness and education.
( maybe a little shaming too!)

As far as DU is concerned, they admins did start DU as a place for Democrats and to support the election of Democrats.
But there are many very left people here, even some anarchists. DU is not really reflective of the Democratic party as a whole.

[Xyzse]

16. I am an Independent

I am pretty similar in many although:

"Role of Government" - I am similar, but we may be coming from the opposite ends of the spectrum. I don't believe the government is a cure all, but it can do a world of good, particularly if applied properly.

"Obama" - I completely agree. He was the last person I wanted to win the primaries. I am still not a fan, but he has accomplished quite a bit. He is also the reason I don't feel as passionately about politics.

"Taxes - a bit of a mixture here. I'm also a bit of a tax code addict, and there's a lot of false information on both sides as to how taxes work. My view here is there can't be any meaningful change on taxes without understanding what we have and don't have. Essentially, my biggest complaint is most who advocate on tax issues one way or the other haven't done the math."

I might agree with you on taxes. However, the current trend towards tax cuts is something I am not in favor of. Also, I tend to think that the tax burden and justification used by the 1% to keep getting more is unconscionable. I can probably justify some of what they mention, but not in the form that they ask for.