Why we can't have nice things

[flamin lib]

There’s a belief among some American gun owners that the second amendment is highly individualized and was placed in the constitution as an individual right to fight government tyranny. Therefore, each individual has the right to own whatever and however many weapons they want, free from any government interference. A licensing law or a universal background check law would mean the government knows who’s got a gun. If you believe there’s an individual right to insurrection, you can’t have any gun laws.
======
When National Rifle Association CEO Wayne LaPierre says things like, “The guys with the guns make the rules”, or politicians and elected officials say, “We will rely on second amendment remedies”, what they mean is that people with guns will, in fact, set the political agenda and settle political disputes. That is a profoundly undemocratic idea. As Abe Lincoln famously said, “Any appeal from the ballot box to the bullet box must fail.” We are a country based on the rule of law. Guns don’t make you a super citizen with the ability to make special rules or have special political influence because you happen to be armed.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/18/guns-are-a-way-to-exercise-power-how-the-idea-of-overthrowing-the-government-became-mainstream

I have heard this 'insurrection theory of the 2nd Amendment' argued right here on DU. I have yet to have anyone explain to me just why the founders would go to such pains to create a government of, by and for the People and then espouse the possibility of destroying it through violent revolution. Nor have any of them explained to me why, if they believed such overthrow might be advised, they included Article III Section 3 in the document that created it.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Regardless of any reasoned explanation to the contrary it is a widely held belief fostered by every gun rights advocate and furthered by the marketing by gun makers.


As the sign in the mall says, You are here. What can be done to counter this insurrection inspiring dogma that has adherents wearing combat gear into government buildings and plotting the kidnapping and murder of heads of state?

I suggest that the best place to begin is to ban the manufacture, import, sale, transfer and possession of any semi automatic weapon that accepts interchangeable magazines.

[Chainfire]

1. Bullies want chaos, where individual power rules, not civilization.

Every man is a nation unto himself. The people all think that the Universe revolves around them and that their way is the only true way. You are reluctantly accepted into their lives if you serve them in some way. Don't tread on me means, do not dare to disagree with my personal philosophy. Your right to exist is granted to you, by me, and is subject to be withdrawn at any moment. Every man a king.

Assault weapons have no place in a civil society and they should be removed. There is no legitimate purpose for having a semi-auto weapon with 30 round magazines except for waging war. They are only "sporting weapons" if the sport involves killing as many people possible in a shortest period of time. They are not hunting weapons, and they are not worth a damn for home protection. The AR/AK style of weapons have become a symbol for insurrection.

The very first problem to deal with is the ban on the open display of weapons in public. Unfortunately, we see some states moving in the opposite direction. People who make threats of violence should be dealt with as felons, thus removing their ability to own any firearm.

Other nations have dealt with the problems we are now facing and have, for the most part resolved it without major bloodshed. If the Supreme court had the guts, they would define the second amendment in no uncertain terms, defining militias as state sponsored organizations, like the National Guard.

It would be a simple matter to redefine semi-auto, carbine length, removable and high capacity magazine fed firearms as "machine guns." It could probably be done as a rule change in the BATFE. If the Right is willing to fight over the issue, and some would, then so be it. Bring the worst of them out in the open and deal with the problem. We have dealt with armed criminal gangs in this country before, we can do it again. The next time that the "Patriots" feel aggrieved they may well show up at the Capitol with blood in their eyes and weapons at the ready. We can not survive as a nation if we allow armed mobs to set our agenda.

Deal with it.

[Hoyt]

2. It is folly to believe we can keep allowing white wing rubes to arm up and not expect them to

try to rule the populace.

Agree completely with the ban of semi-automatic weapons. One can still protect their home -- if they believe that is truly necessary -- with revolvers and bolt action rifles.

[flamin lib]

3. Exactly. If you can't make the bad guy stop doing whatever he's doing

with six shots (now up to 8) you have no business with a gun of any kind.

[billh58]

4. And now we have them

in Congress spewing hate, fear, and violence:

Conservative conspiracy theorist Marjorie Taylor Greene suggested that the mass shooting carried out in Las Vegas, Nevada, in October of 2017 was part of a wider plot to push gun control legislation in a social media video that resurfaced on Wednesday.

Greene, a known QAnon supporter and vocal proponent of Donald Trump, was recently elected to represent Georgia's 14th congressional district in the U.S. House. Her claims about the 2017 Las Vegas shooting began to circulate alongside a wave of older videos and messages shared to social media, in which Greene promoted false conspiracies surrounding the 2018 school shooting in Parkland, Florida. Both are among the deadliest mass shootings in United States history, resulting in more than 75 fatalities between them, with the Las Vegas shooting being the deadliest.

- snip -

Greene is a prominent defender of Second Amendment rights and often weaves her opposition to gun control legislation into conspiracy theories that concern mass shootings. This is also the case in Wednesday's resurfaced social media video, where the congresswoman incorrectly claims that anti-gun lobbyists were behind the Harvest festival shooting.

- snip -

The congresswoman quickly faced public backlash for her remarks about the Harvest festival attack on Twitter. Journalist David Boardman, former executive editor and Vice President of The Seattle Times, was among those who voiced strong reactions to Greene's claims, calling them "disturbing" in a message posted to the social platform Wednesday afternoon.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/marjorie-taylor-greene-claims-las-vegas-shooting-was-plotted-by-anti-gun-lobbyists-in-resurfaced-video/ar-BB1d9tyd?li=BBnb7Kz

The Second Amendment was never meant to be, nor is it, about insurrection, overthrowing a duly elected government, or pacifying QAnon crazies like this elected idiot. The Capitol riot proved that we need to take our country back from the radicals who use the Second Amendment to promote their hatred, racism, and bigotry, not through more violence but through legislation and civil process.

Guns do not belong in the home and not on our streets, nor in public for any reason. There is absolutely no justification for standing your ground while armed with a deadly weapon. Crimes committed with a lethal weapon deserve extremely harsh prison terms.

[flamin lib]

5. I am beginning to fear for my country.

Not because the likes of MTG hold the beliefs they do, but because enough people voted for them to have them elected.