How to Win an Argument With a Gun Nut EVERY Time!

[Scuba]

Great read, good analysis and some good points.

http://aattp.org/how-to-win-an-argument-with-a-gun-nut-every-time/

“Shall not be infringed.”

The right to bear arms is ALREADY “infringed” for many, and for very good reason. Here’s a short list of things that could easily happen if we were to give you your way, remove all “infringements,” and completely deregulate the Second Amendment:

...A career felon could walk out of prison, and purchase a full-auto AK-47 from Walmart
...Your psycho ex could buy a sniper rifle and silencer from “some guy” for $100
...A mentally handicapped child could get a pistol from a vending machine
...Known terrorists and those with terrorist affiliations could easily purchase Stinger missile launchers to shoot down airliners, and RPGs to blow up your Hummer
...Any nutjob could walk out of the asylum, buy a grenade launcher and flamethrower, and visit your kids at school.

...

“The Second Amendment is our only protection from TYRANNY!”

They have drones. They have laser-firing aircraft that can blow up one target every 15 seconds in a 150-mile radius. They have surveillance satellites, nuclear bombs, missiles, poison gas, tanks, aircraft carriers, bombers. The U.S. government beat the THIRD REICH. They beat JAPAN. And that was 75 years ago, with 2,000-mile long supply lines. Seriously, not to be defeatist, but it’s not like they’re going to invade with cotton-shirted police carrying pointy sticks. At least, not before they laser-bomb you from orbit using atomic drones with nerve gas. (The usual response to this is, “Yeah, but they have to HAVE those things and people to operate them first.” The rebuttal is “So, your strategy is to win by assuming they can’t fight back, and that the U.S. Government won’t launch a first strike. Good luck with that.“)

...

“Gun regulations are a slippery slope…GUN GRABBING IS NEXT!”

The United States passed its first gun control laws prior to the Civil War, criminalizing possession of firearms by blacks. Be honest, what’s your opinion on THAT one? Gun regulations have existed in the United States for about 150 years, evolving many times since then to cover machine guns, assault rifles, Saturday Night Specials and undetectable firearms. And you can still carry an AR-15 around with a .45 in your back pocket.

...

“Everybody who don’t agree with us is a GUN GRABBING COMMIE!”

Gun grabbing Commies? Really? 91% of Americans are gun-grabbing Communists? Does that include the 88% of Republicans, 90% of Independents and 88% legal gun owners who support universal background checks? Wanting to regulate and control a certain type of gun or accessory doesn’t mean you want to get rid of ALL guns. About 59% of Americans (41% of Republicans) support a ban on assault weapons, 58% (40% of Republicans) want to ban hi-cap magazines, and 26% of Americans would support a ban on handguns.

[Hoyt]

1. Those are good. Problem I have found is that gun fanciers are often irrational, hence gun love.

You can't talk logically/rationally to a person who straps a gun or two on to venture out into public.



[New term, which I think is quite apt -- "Gun Fanciers" first used by Kingofalldems.]

[orwell]

2. Rational arguments don't work...

...on emotional issues.

The RepubliCon party discovered this long ago...

[billh58]

3. Those are indeed

rational and sane arguments, but how do you counter a belief (seen right here on DU) that says: "My right to keep and bear arms trumps your right to life?"

Gun fetishists and irrational gun nuts can only repeat the NRA mantra of: Because Second Amendment, Liberty, My Rights, and Freedom! Throw in a few cherry-picked and manipulated statistics, a dash of faux patriotism, and wrap it all in an American flag and you have a few well-armed doomsday preppers and a very vocal gun nut minority who account for most of the guns in the USA.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

4. You're new at this aren't you.

[GP6971]

5. Meaning what??? n/t

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

6. Just to make a few points

Hyperbole is not your friend. ("Shall not be infringed.&quot

The 2A operates to level the field. ("...it’s not like they’re going to invade..." The 2A makes they all of us.)

U.S. voters have shown that gun laws are anything but a slippery slope. If they were, the 1994 AWB would still be around. (...GUN GRABBING IS NEXT!)


No one here is a "GUN GRABBING COMMIE!" Some of the most well thought and interesting discussions I've ever had have been here on DU with folks from both sides of the issue. I'm still grateful to Hoyt for some of the thoughts and perspectives he brought to light for me.


This discussion, debate and sharing of views embody the aspects of freedom and government as conceived by the founders and provide for that most fundamental component animating inspiration. I can't say that I agree with everyone on the pro-control side on anything but it is the discussion, debate and sharing of views that bring progress. I gave up being a Republican due to their overall resistance to progress. Here on DU people interested in progress can relate their ideas and find a path to the future. Republicans are busy trying to be an e-brake on a square wheel.

[billh58]

7. And this Group

Last edited Wed Nov 20, 2013, 04:27 PM - Edit history (1)

is for those of us who would whittle the Second Amendment back down to it's intended meaning. The NRA definition of the Second Amendment as defined by an extreme right-wing SCOTUS is obscene and its true meaning has absolutely nothing to do with "My right to keep and bear arms trumps your right to life."

Your weak attempts to disrupt this Group with your Gungeoneer philosophy of "gunz for everyone" are evident, as is your contempt for the OP. Take this garbage back to your RKBA swamp.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

8. As I understand it...

...this group has as a goal "Discuss how to enact progressive gun control reform in a supportive environment."

Maybe I'm wrong here but the OP seems to be aimed at winning arguments with what I think of as the "Nugent" subset of the pro-gun faction. Knowing the audience is key to influencing people. IMHO there aren't many of that group here. I'm not an NRA member, I don't own a copy of Ted, White and Blue nor do donate to the Birchers.

I not against UBCs nor do I need to be able to own my own machine gun. I have no "contempt" for the OP but I wanted to highlight that the contempt apparent in the OP was maybe appropriate for the "Nugent" subset but certainly not for all pro-RKBA folks. The points in the OP just seemed to me aimed more at stifling rather than promoting discussion.

[billh58]

9. Again, this Group

is for DU-ers who want to discuss HOW to implement gun control legislation aimed at reducing the gun violence in the most heavily armed country in the civilized world, with the highest number of gun deaths and injuries in the civilized world. Your Group (RKBA) is concerned with the WHY of additional gun control legislation -- an argument that has absolutely no place here. It is a bit too late for the "let's all get along" bullshit that you and others from the right-wing Gungeon are trying to sell here.

I don't particularly care what you are "against" or not against, as your views about guns are well established by your posts elsewhere on DU. And yes, you DO exhibit contempt for not only the OP, but for this Group. You goals in posting in this Group are to disrupt and spread Gungeon propaganda, which is in turn NRA-parroted bullshit "talking points."

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

10. Look Bill...

...I hope your side gets something accomplished. I discuss and debate the issues from my perspective.

Your opinions are shown as incorrect by any casual reader of this thread. If there's something specific I've said that has you wrapped around the axle, I'm sorry. Maybe you'd care to PM me and further derail this thread.

Don't get me wrong, the OP has some funny elements to it and that's always welcome.

[billh58]

11. Tell it to

your Gungeon buddies Slick -- we ain't buying it.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. Shrug

Have a nice day.

[billh58]

13. My favorite excerpt from the link above:

BASIC DOs AND DON’Ts

DO understand that there are lots of different types of gun owners. Some have them for protection, and some are gearheads who just like them as machines. Some people collect certain types of guns because they’re cool, and others just like stuff that’s loud, spits fire and blows holes in things. Often, a gun enthusiast is some combination of all of these.

DON’T lump the above gun owners in with the “Second Amendment” crowd. These 2A people own guns primarily because they feel inadequate, and live in fear because of it. They’re terrified of meeting an equal, and will almost always run from a fight if they don’t have a clear advantage going in.

DO remember at all times that these 2A people live in a state of constant fear, and they resent others who don’t. They’re going to do everything they can do to make others feel the same way they do.

DON’T bother with the “phallic symbol” thing. They don’t understand what it means, and the “inadequacy” they feel is a bit more layered than that. They might feel inadequate physically, but it may just as easily be mental or emotional. Often, they feel unprepared to compete in the modern world… because they are.

DO call them out on their fear, weakness and inadequacy…but BE EMPATHETIC. Be SYMPATHETIC about their shortcomings. It’s the one thing they absolutely cannot stand. Especially when you point out that the gun itself only proves their fear, weakness and sense of inadequacy. Make them face their demons, and force them to regard the gun itself as a symbol of their fear. Do that, and they’ll eventually come to hate it on principle.

This pretty much sums up the difference between the majority of Americans and American gun owners, and the cold-dead-hands NRA/Gungeon type of gun nut.