Former Republican Says No One Who Voted for the Iraq War Should Be President—Including Hillary Clint

[rhett o rick]

Former Republican Says No One Who Voted for the Iraq War Should Be President—Including Hillary Clinton
By John Nichols April 10
http://www.thenation.com/blog/203945/ready-hillary-pointed-objection-her-iraq-war-record

Lincoln Chafee just went there, as only Lincoln Chafee could.

The former Republican senator and independent governor of Rhode Island, who is very seriously exploring the prospect of challenging Hillary Clinton for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, said Iraq should be an issue.
Then Chafee got specific. He brought up the votes that he and Clinton cast in 2002, as members of the US Senate, on whether to authorize President Bush and Vice President Cheney to steer the United States toward war with Iraq.
Chafee, then sitting as a Republican, voted with Senators Russ Feingold, Paul Wellstone, and twenty others to block the rush to war.
Clinton, sitting as a Democrat, voted with Senator John McCain and 75 others to give Bush and Cheney their blank check.
Chafee calls that Clinton’s vote “the biggest mistake of many” on issues of foreign policy by the presumed frontrunner for the 2016 Democratic nomination.

But even those who support Clinton should recognize the lesson of 2008: “Inevitability” does not always translate into reality. And Democrats who believe Clinton will be their nominee should recognize something else: She will face questions about her record. Those questions will either come in a spirited primary process, or they will come in a fall race with a Republican. Lincoln Chafee is raising the toughest questions now. That is not merely appropriate, that is practical and necessary—for Clinton and for the Democratic Party.

I see this as very important from a couple of different aspects. One as John Nichols mentions above, H. Clinton will sooner or later, have to come to terms with her decision in 2002 to join Sen McCain and other war hawks to give George Bush and Richard Cheney a blank check to destroy the country and people of Iraq for some reason yet to be explained. Those that capitulated to the Republicons and shrugged their duties to balance power and hold the Republicons back from waging a very costly war, must share the responsibility.
I think some are in denial about just how terrible this decision was and how horrible the consequences were.

The second reason I think this article is important is that it points out how the Democratic Party is shifting to the Right. With people like Arlen Specter and Lincoln Chafee, switching parties, it shows that they think their ideologies fit with the New Democrats, the Third Way Wing of the Party. It's a win-win for our corporate masters.
We need a strong two party system to have checks and balances. Now we are looking at a Third Way Conservative Democratic Party, with a disenfranchised Progressive Wing vs. the Clown Party.

[marym625]

1. K&R

Love the last sentence

[napi21]

2. I enjoyed listening to Chafee when he was in the Senate.

He always sounded like one of the FEW truthful politicians. Something has changed with him. I watched him on TV this AM and I saw his announcement the other day. He now seems stiff, and unfriendly.

I'm glad Hillary has some competition, and I hope there are more candidates declare that they're running, but Link doesn't seem to be one who would beat her.

[still_one]

3. Difference is all the Democratic candidates admit it was a mistake

Not one republican running will admit that, and that does make the difference

Lincoln Chaffee was a republican, but they threw him out of his party.

[merrily]

42. Dead people couldn't hear them admitting their mistake.

Anyway, it took Hillary until 2014 to admit her vote was a mistake. Now, why do you suppose she finally did it then?

Besides, Hillary did not only vote for that war. She advocated for it, just as the DLC wanted.

Also, she claimed she did the best she could with the info she had. Every Democrat I know--Democrats who had no NIE (which Hillary did not even read), no access to any special data, knew Bushco was lying. Actress Susan Sarandon took out a TV ad with her own money to try to stop that war. Senator Hillary Clinton, though, was on the side of PNAC and the DLC because she could not figure out what an actress and all my friends had figured out? If that is so, she REALLY should not be President.

I wish people would get that this is not the group to campaign for Hillary. Leave it in GD or the Hillary Group.

[still_one]

44. Vote for whoever you want, that is your right

[Indykatie]

4. This Liberal Democrat Will Happily Support Hillary

Hillary may be the only major candidate from either party who was in a position to have to take a vote on Iraq. While I am interested in what she has to say now about that vote it does not diminish my support for her or make me consider a different candidate running for the Dem nomination. It will be interesting to see how much attention a former republican who left his party not to join the Democratic party but to become an independent running for the Dem nomination gets.

[merrily]

25. A post perhaps better suited to GD or the Hillary Group.

[Scootaloo]

29. Well, what's a few hundred thousand dead Arabs, right?

It's not like they're "hard-working white Americans," is it?

[aspirant]

5. If she admits it's a mistake

how is she going to rectify that mistake?

We spent TRILLIONS on this mistake so where is she going to get the money to pay the American people back? In addition, what is the cost of lost limbs, American lives and VA support?

It's time she and her Corporate Wall Street comrades pay the total bill for these wars.

[L0oniX]

13. She will have a finger on the big red nuke button. Any room for mistakes?

[merrily]

47. I cannot imagine a single member of the military or their loved ones voting for her after she said

her vote to put troops in harm's way was a mistake.

This is really something. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/06/05/hillary-clinton-on-iraq-vote-i-still-got-it-wrong-plain-and-simple/

How come every Democrat I know knew Bushco was lying and manipulating?

[Jim Lane]

6. Why are you hostile to Chafee? I welcome him to the Democratic Party.

You write: "With people like Arlen Specter and Lincoln Chafee, switching parties, it shows that they think their ideologies fit with the New Democrats, the Third Way Wing of the Party."

No, it shows that they think their ideologies fit better overall with the Democratic Party than with the Republican Party. That would be true of those who like the Third Way but also true of those who like the Warren Wing.

I don't know Chafee's stands on income inequality and other bread-and-butter issues. I do know that he's with us on social issues (favoring reproductive rights, gun control, marriage equality, and affirmative action, for example). The OP also notes that he was with us on the single most important foreign-policy vote of the last several years -- standing up to a President of his own party to do the right thing.

Yes, he was first elected as a Republican. He was a legacy Republican -- his father was a leading light of the now-defunct wing of the Republican Party that's often called "Rockefeller Republican" (mostly Northeasterners who would be far to the left of any Republican who can hope to win the 2016 nomination).

We on DU inveigh against Republican craziness, but we're preaching to the choir. When an actual Republican who's not crazy switches parties, that's the kind of thing that will turn the DU consensus into election victories.

[rhett o rick]

12. We need a vibrant two party system. With the conservatives moving into our party

they bring their conservative ideologies with them and we are losing our Democratic values. They may be progressive on social issues but if we don't get Wall Street under control, the NSA/CIA Security State under control, and the MIC under control, we will continue to lose our liberties.

[Jim Lane]

14. It's too simplistic to label Chafee a conservative just because he grew up as a Republican.

Ronald Reagan was a registered Democrat until past his 50th birthday.

To take just one of your examples, that we must "get...the NSA/CIA Security State under control," here's Chafee from his website:

Recently certain of our rights have been wrongfully infringed upon. Particularly the Fourth Amendment forbids the tapping of our phones without a warrant. And the Eighth Amendment outlaws cruel and unusual punishment or torture. I will never allow our liberties to be diminished.

I note the delicacy of the phrasing through the use of the passive voice: "our rights have been wrongfully infringed upon." We all know the name, and more to the point the party affiliation, of the President under whose aegis this infringement has occurred. So, on this issue area, who's more faithful to what you rightly describe as "our Democratic values" -- the lifelong Democrat or the former Republican?

[rhett o rick]

18. I agree I should be careful generalizing, but I doubt Chaffee is a liberal.

From my memory he voted with the Republicons most of the time and occasionally voted with the Democrats. He might be a good choice over HRC but I will have to investigate some more. He gets a lot of respect from me for being a Republicon and voting against Bush's War.

[Jim Lane]

19. His record poses an issue also raised by Hillary's: the politician who has changed over time.

While in the Senate, he was pretty much the most liberal Republican, but your recollection is correct that he cast some fairly conservative votes. He has moved somewhat to the left since then.

A discrepancy between Senate votes and current positions is also an issue for Clinton.

[merrily]

26. Members of other groups don't have to keep defending the OPs they post in their group.

This is not GD.

[rhett o rick]

36. "A discrepancy between Senate votes and current positions is also an issue for Clinton."

She hasn't been very forthcoming about her "current positions". If you have any evidence that Clinton as "changed over time" and moved left on the issues of the economy, the MIC, the heavy handed NSA/CIA Security State, regulating Goldman-Sachs and the big banksters, foreign policy, etc., plez share.

[merrily]

43. Mixed reaction.

Specter--starts as a Dem. Switches to Republican when it looks like he can't win as a Dem. Stays Republican for forever---until his polling for an upcoming (R) primary looks bad. Then he trades Obama his vote for Obama's support and switches back to Democratic. Meanwhile, Sestak, who might have been able to win against the teabagger, got squeezed out. If Specter were alive now, he could take a hike, as far as I;m concerned.

Similar deal with Crist in Florida, though maybe Meek was not as strong a candidate as Sestak. If we're going to lose to a teabagger, at least let us lose with a Democrat.


Chafee, I don't know. Switches shortly before he thinks he has a shot at challenging Hillary based on an Iraq vote. (Obama challenged her based on a 2002 anti Iraq speech, so why not challenge her on an actual vote?) That seems opportunistic.

Then again, Sanders is saying he might switch to Dem in order to challenge Hillary and I just decided to support him. So......

Mixed reaction.

[Historic NY]

51. Their actual motives was they couldn't get re-elected dog catchers..

as Republicans that why they switched. Chafee didn't become a Democrat until he quit his chance at re-election as Governor, in fact a Democrat took his independent seat.

[BillZBubb]

7. What a joke, no one who voted for w bush should be president either.

I'm not a big Hillary fan, but this attack is pathetic. About the only republican who could get leverage from this would be rand paul. All the others were cheerleaders for bush and cheney.

If Hillary wins the Democratic nomination, she is the best available choice for president. Anyone not voting for her in that case would be as dumb as she was voting to support the Iraq invasion.

Plus, she made that mistake, so she won't repeat it in Iran. All the republicans are frothing at the mouth for an attack on Iran. Hillary wins that hands down.

[whereisjustice]

8. Bullshit. It's a matter of qualifications. She doesn't have them. Neither do many. The problem is

the Democratic and Republican Party have both become so intolerant of anything but a conservative viewpoint, the only people capable of surviving the process will be unqualified to act in the best interest of ALL Americans.

The rich, however, are well represented regardless of who wins and Hillary has shown she is ready to represent rich before poor.

[BillZBubb]

9. She's more qualified than any republican.

In the real world, our next president will either be the Democratic nominee or the republican. THAT IS A FACT. You can play the bullshit false equivalency game all you want, but I want a Democrat in the White House and no republican. If that Democrat is Hillary, so be it.

To foolishly claim the Democrats and republicans are the same is pathetic.

[Scootaloo]

30. This argument needs to die

"She's better than a Republican"? Yeah, no shit. is that really our bar? Our only standard of consideration for a candidate, is "better than a Republican"?

[merrily]

31. save it for the general. The primary hasn't begun yet.

While you're at it, save it for GD or the Hillary Group. This group is neither of those.

[rhett o rick]

11. How is holding her accountable for her part in the decision to start a war

that ended up with approx 1 million dead and 5 million displaced, not to mention the damage to our economy and liberties, pathetic. An you say she won't make that mistake with Iran. First of all, she shouldn't get a second chance. She should be held accountable for the consequences of her Iraq mistake. Second, why do you think she won't do it again? She knew what she was doing, she didn't like the outcome.

And his statement has absolutely nothing to do with her qualifications vs. Republicons. Where did you get that?

And if you think Chaffee's statement was bad, as he is saying, it's only the beginning. Why not choose another Democrat.

[merrily]

27. Please see Reply 26.

[yeoman6987]

52. I don't think any Republican running for President voted for the war

So it's good to have her speak on it now rather then during the general.

[Khaotic]

10. Competition

He could be legitimate competition for Hillary.

[L0oniX]

15. Eventually these groups are going to be forced to block the Hillary worshippers. They want us banned

We will eventually have to STFU. On DI I'm actually finding people on the other side that agree with me about the 1%.

[rhett o rick]

16. What I find interesting is that it's obvious that the Democratic Party has a ever widening

rift between the Progress/Populist Wing and the pro-Wall Street/ Third Way Wing. And yet the Third Way Wing will deny that there is a rift and some even claim to be progressive all the while disparaging the Left. Seems like denial to me.

[L0oniX]

17. Yeah and the reframing of Hillary being the liberal progressive populist is making me sick.

[rhett o rick]

20. Some believe if one is progressive on one or two issues, then they are progressive.

They can support the MIC, the NSA/CIA Security State's domestic spying, drone killing, torture, Wall Street domination of our economy, etc. but if they support LGBT rights, then they are progressive. They don't understand that if we become paupers with zero Constitutional rights, the social gains we've made will soon evaporate.

[merrily]

32. I agree with what Loonix posted about groups and then some.

[rhett o rick]

33. I agree also. nm

[sabrina 1]

21. Wow, Chafee said that? Good for him, I could not agree more. Anyone with such bad judgement

should not be in a position where s/he could make another fatal decision like that.

[merrily]

48. Yet, she said she would not have gone to war if she had been President in 2002.

[sabrina 1]

22. I remember when Chafee voted against that awful war authorization. He was brutally attacked by his

own party airc. That I think, is when he decided to leave that party. I also remember wondering why ANY DEMOCRAT could possibly give ANYTHING to Bush/Cheney who were clearly lying.

And I admired Chafee for his courage, because it took far more courage for a Republican to oppose his own rabidly war supporting party at that time than it would have for Democrats.

I think the Dems who voted for the AUMF did so for one of two reasons, or for both, one, they AGREED with Bush/Cheney's neocon Foreign Policies, OR they misread the Left. The looked at polls after 9/11 and saw the support for Bush and mistook it for political and personal support, when in fact it was for the country. And those who had political ambitions, the WH eg, thought, wrongly, that it would help them.

When that support for Bush from some on the Left began to crumble after they realized he was taking advantage of a great tragedy, those who voted for the war, many with Presidential aspirations, realize they had made a mistake.

Politically it sure was a mistake, as those who wanted to run for the WH as Dems realized pretty quickly when they found themselves faced with so much anger from Dem voters. Most rushed to apologize for it.

In Hillary's case I think she supported the neocons FP, which she proved as SOS. And she probably thought it would benefit her when she ran for president. Instead it probably lost her the presidency in 2008, once voters had a candidate who had opposed it.

This time she seems to realize what a disaster that vote was for her politically, and she has finally, way too late, apologized. It took a dozen years so it doesn't sound very convincing to me, just politically expedient. Not buying it at all.

[merrily]

49. Please remember, the DLC endorsed that war and the founder of the Progressive Policy Institute, who

worked for the DLC, signed the PNAC letter.

Hillary did not simply vote for that war. She advocated for it. I think that was because of the think tanks--and, even though we are supposed to pretend Bubba never existed--I would be very surprised if she and the think tanks hadn't consulted with him.

And, having just seen Bubba win two Presidentials, which had not happened in a long time, the DLC penny was still shiny and bright in the minds of Democrats (who may have forgotten about Ross Perot).

In their minds then, Third Way was THE way to get elected and re-elected, at the Presidential level as well as their own. That was the DLC gospel and people are still trying to sell it on DU, even though Republicans hold so many local, state and federal offices now it literally is not funny.

Plus, the nation was reeling from the shock of 911 and frightened and media was helping Bushco.

I think they thought they might not get re-elected if they did not vote that war and the Patriot Act. Nothing more and nothing less than that. That, and maybe higher office some day, is what drives their lives.

[Andy823]

23. Did you vote for Kerry? nt

[rhett o rick]

24. Now why would you want to know that? I will answer if you tell me how you forgive those

Democrats that bowed down to Republicons in 2002 and authorized Republicons to kill in our name 1 million Iraq citizens. I understand why Republicons don't care about the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi children, but can't figure out how Democrats can rationalize that. Do you think the deaths of those children is just collateral damage? How do you forgive the betrayal of those Democrats that were afraid to stand up to Republicons?

[Andy823]

34. It's a pretty simple question

DID you vote for Kerry?

I think the Iraq war was a total disaster, and I don't condone the deaths of the children, or the innocent people who died. Bush lied us into that war and he has to live with what he did. Now if you voted for Kerry, you must have forgiven him, right? I know Manny said he voted for Kerry, so will you ask him the same question you are asking me about that war?

[sabrina 1]

50. We knew Bush was lying, why didn't Hillary? She is asking for the job of POTUS.

Either she made a terrible and fatal error, or she supported Cheney/Bush.

I'm not sure which is worse, the end result for one million human beings would be the same.

Either way it was horrendously bad judgement. A vote for war is the most important vote an elected official will be asked to make, and she failed that test. If I made a mistake one hundreth times less serious than that, I would not have the gall to ask for a job where I could do it again. I spend the rest of my life being haunted by those innocent people.

Barbara Lee had excellent judgement, on that and on the The Patriot Ace, on every decision they were asked to make at that time.

THAT's what I want in a leader. Someone whose judgement I can trust.

[Autumn]

59. The hosting in here seems rather lax. I thought this was a

"safe house for DUers interested in the progressive, populist reform of our Democratic party.", but it seems people can come in here and get rude with the posters in here with no repercussions.

[sabrina 1]

60. True, sick to death of that kind of 'dialogue' which hopefully won't be allowed in this forum where

the quality of discussion has been relatively free of that kind of childish insincere disruptive behavior. Actually I thought the entire forum was supposed to be free of it to be honest. I initially came to DU to get away from what is now taking over DU it seems.

We should not have needed this Group, but the decline of the dialogue in the main forums necessitating somewhere to go to just have a discussion without the constant nagging and disruption, is a statement in itself.

[merrily]

28. Please see Replies 25 and 26.

[Andy823]

35. Why would this be better on the Hillary board?

I just asked a question. Did you vote for Kerry? I did.

[merrily]

37. GD or Hillary GROUP, not Hillary board

Populist Reform of the Democratic Party (Group)
This is a group, not a forum. Groups often serve as safe havens for members who share similar interests and viewpoints.

But you knew that.

I just asked a question.

[Andy823]

38. All I did

Was to ask if the poster voted for Kerry. That was so bad?

[merrily]

39. Why are you repeating a comment I've already responded to?

[Andy823]

40. Sorry but

I have not had a reply to my question, by you or rhett o rick. I admit I voted for Kerry.

[merrily]

41. I replied at least twice. Take your Hillary campaigning to GD or the Hillary Group.

Last edited Sat Apr 25, 2015, 06:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Not the reply you sought perhaps, but the appropriate reply for this group.

And please spare me another wide-eyed blinking "I'm only asking an innocent question. What's wrong with asking an innocent question?" post. You and I both know better. Besides, I replied to that, too.

Here's that reply again.

BTW, Rick replied, too. Not getting the reply you demand does not equal not getting a reply. So, you've been disingenuous as well as disrespectful.

[gwheezie]

53. is chafee a populist?

I know this is the populist board so I checked chafee's voting record since I don't know that much about him.

[rhett o rick]

55. Now that you've checked his record, what is your opinion as to whether he is a populist? nm

[gwheezie]

57. oops my reply is below nt

[ladjf]

54. Ms. Clinton's war vote definitely killed her previous bid for President.

The question now is, does it still matter to Americans?

[gwheezie]

56. sadly I think her Iraq vote won't matter

We have in some ways decreased our involvement in actual combat in the mid East and I recognize Obamas efforts to avoid war with Iran and his reluctance to invade other countries but we have expanded a military role into so many other countries and I just don't see it as s big campaign issue. Most Americans don't seem to care.
I voted for Hillary in 08 and just had to ignore her iraq war vote. I'm being frank. I ignored Kerry's vote in 04.
I looked at chafees voting record and he seems to be a free trade guy. He did vote to support some dem issues but I don't see him in the same populist light as Bernie who has been consistent in his votes.
To me opposing Iraq is not the only populist issue. Look at Webb he opposed Iraq but I wouldn't call him a progressive or populist. Warrens recent fight for the middle class and consumers is populist. Both she and Bernie have the advantage since they are both in the middle of the fight and people like chafee only have their voting record in the past to go on. He would have to make a compelling argument for me to call him a populist.

[gwheezie]

58. sorry I was replying to rhett nt