We still have DU'ers that don't think

[clydefrand]

that Bernie has a chance? If so, you aren't reading about all the
crowds coming to his speeches!

[NYC_SKP]

1. There is a tendency to downplay his chances, it is a tactic that will not work.

[yeoman6987]

13. Sarah Palin had huge crowds...just saying

I don't think that has much effect on winning. His message will. He just needs to continue talking about issues. That's the winning formula. Good luck Senator Sanders.

[rurallib]

23. Palin? huge crowds? where and when?

Maybe as McCain's VP candidate, but I don't remember many if any of her crowds ever being described as huge.

Bernie is a guy who just recently announced a darkhorse candidacy for the presidency. He is drawing thousands mostly on word of mouth.

Were the Palin statement true, the situations are vastly different.

[arcane1]

53. Palin also had the entire Fox media apparatus to support and promote her. Pure astroturf.

[BeanMusical]

26. You are comparing Bernie Sanders to that crazy hateful POS?

[Iggo]

28. Yeah, but Palin's a fucking idiot.

[FlatBaroque]

37. They came out to watch a car wreck, not to listen to her policy positions. n/t

[Ed Suspicious]

59. I really hope you're sarcasm button got stuck there.

[cheapdate]

17. It's not necessarily a "tactic".

Sometimes, it's just an honest prediction based on an expectation. Like, "I don't think the Atlanta Falcons have a chance against the Patriots."

I still think Bernie is a longshot.

[immoderate]

2. They do not understand chaotic systems.

--imm

[Demeter]

3. He's a stealth candidate

We will know he is winning when we see the Establishment, the 1%, panicking. I'd like that day to come as late as possible.

If they aren't panicking by this time next year, he's either sold out, or irretrievably compromised.

It is the slightest of chances...but I'm buying a ticket!

[SoapBox]

4. I've started looking where stuff is posted...

If it's in GD, I'm expecting some of the worst comments or attacks on him.

My imagination says that Bernie supporters want to hear more from him because he is talking issues, issues and more issues.

Supporters of others keep running him down and are trying to tell us that their candidate is a "Liberal"...even though their candidate is not talking.

[fredamae]

8. Hmmmm-one thing that

I see as remarkably different in Sanders run...and is ignored by those who would dismiss, discount Bernie as viable...who egregiously underestimate his chances, are literally Ignoring the Literal Elephant in the room.

So many ordinary folks who call themselves Republican are Also Very supportive of Bernie. Why? Because what Bernie says about real issues facing ordinary people from all political affiliations, is what most of us experience and would say IF we had a Mic and an audience beyond social media.

I believe Both sides must be or are getting, very worried about that at this juncture.
His long, long record proves that out.

[A Simple Game]

19. What many on DU fail to understand about Republican rank and file is that they have the

same problems as the Democratic rank and file. The main difference is what each party believes is the best solution to a very few problems. I believe the time is ripe for a candidate that is not 100% affiliated with either major party.

[arcane1]

54. Indeed, he's speaking for the majority of Americans, whether they realize their a majority or not.

And not one billionaire to answer to.

[FlatBaroque]

5. Bernie will have to fight the mendacity of the media as well

Last edited Sun May 31, 2015, 08:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Example: This morning George Snuffleupagus is talking to O'Malley and asks what O'Malley's strategy will be because Bernie "has taken up the same positions as you". I was like WTF??? "taken up"? as opposed to held firmly for the past few decades.

[Enthusiast]

7. Yeah. Bernie has taken up O'Malley's positions. How ridiculous. Just goes to show you.

[zeemike]

21. Well I will say if if no one else will

He is the stalking horse candidate.

He came out of nowhere, and ex governor that most people don't know and gets instant credibility.
And Bernie has been active in politics for decades and is deemed not credible...that should give you pause.

[Enthusiast]

25. It does give me pause.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[BeanMusical]

29. I'm having a problem with O'Malley.

Maybe I'm totally wrong and if that's the case I would really appreciate some information. The thing is with O'Malley and other Democratic candidates jumping in, isn't it splitting the votes for Bernie which I see as the main candidate to defeat Hillary? I pretty much always agree with your posts, zeemike, so that's why I'm asking you.

[zeemike]

50. Well thank you

But I don't know anything about him...all I know is he used to be a governor.
I suppose I should research him and find out more, but it just seem strange to me that he suddenly popped up and is now treated as some kind of progressive...Is he?...I don't know.

But Sanders has been on my radar for a long time...longer than Warren and I know his background.

[Koinos]

77. Lots of good information about O'Malley in the DU O'Malley Group

You can research O'Malley's positions and accomplishments here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1281

He is a genuine progressive, and he didn't suddenly pop up. He just didn't officially declare his candidacy until May 30.

Traditionally, candidates declared around June 1st. It seems that the primary season has gotten longer and longer.

O'Malley's progressive positions are confirmed by real accomplishments as governor of Maryland.

He isn't backed by Wall Street, to say the least.

[zeemike]

78. Wow he already has a group on DU.

But as far as the rest of the country is concerned he just popped up...most don't know him.
Does he have a supper pack?

But not all of those listed accomplishments give me confidence...like this.
"#1 ranking for innovation and entrepreneurship for two years running (U.S. Chamber of Commerce)."
"O’Malley has cut State spending more than any previous governor in Maryland’s history, balancing these record cuts with targeted, modern investments in priorities like public education. He has reduced the size of government to its smallest size since 1973 "

If the COC likes him I am suspecious...and smaller government is a right wing goal.

[Koinos]

79. Look at the whole package. Read more.

I like Bernie a lot, but O'Malley is not your enemy. He is for real, and he is a progressive. He just happens to be unknown at this point. I think that Bernie and O'Malley are very much on the same page.

Like Bernie, however, he will have to get a lot of his funding from online small donations. A super-PAC has formed to support his candidacy, but it has been launched by old friends of O'Malley who have no connections with big banks:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/omalley-allies-launching-super-pac-ahead-of-his-presidential-launch/2015/05/27/37747a66-04ab-11e5-a428-c984eb077d4e_story.html

O’Doherty said that he had not spoken with O’Malley’s soon-to-be campaign aides about the establishment of a super PAC, pointing out that he did not “need or expect any blessing from Martin O’Malley.”

Bernie is a great candidate, but I just prefer O'Malley (my former governor). I had no intention of intruding in the Bernie Group. I just believe that uninformed opinions about other progressives should be corrected.

We all need to learn a lot and work together.

[zeemike]

80. Well you need to update your information

Yes he does...

Washington (CNN)—Martin O'Malley's bid for the Democratic presidential nomination will be aided by a new super PAC with a name -- Generation Forward --that's a not-so-subtle jab at Hillary Clinton.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/28/politics/martin-omalley-super-pac-hillary-clinton-election-2016/

Now I would like to know who funds it.

Sorry if I seem skeptical, but we have been fooled before, and there is nothing in his record that jumps out at me as progressive, and some things that say the opposite.

[Koinos]

81. You provide basically the same info I gave you in the WAPO link.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/omalley-allies-launching-super-pac-ahead-of-his-presidential-launch/2015/05/27/37747a66-04ab-11e5-a428-c984eb077d4e_story.html

Martin O'Malley would like to do away with super PACs.

The truth is, candidates cannot communicate with and have no control over the formation of super PACs.

Theoretically, a super PAC could be formed to support Bernie's campaign. With a super PAC, no money goes to the candidate or the candidate's campaign directly. Money is spent on his or her behalf.

As long as they keep their distance, wealthy persons can use PACs to promote whatever cause they wish. Until Citizens United is overturned, there is not much that can be done about it.

Here is the key quote from the WAPO article:

O’Doherty said that he had not spoken with O’Malley’s soon-to-be campaign aides about the establishment of a super PAC, pointing out that he did not “need or expect any blessing from Martin O’Malley.”

This is certainly an issue we will hear more about, and I trust that O'Malley will be asked about it. I, like you, will be interested in his response.

ETA: Some more information about the "Generation Forward" super PAC (from Politico):

O’Doherty conceded that O’Malley’s side would be “vastly outspent” in the primary, but said the super PAC would be able to tap the governor’s overlapping donor networks. They include supporters of Gary Hart, on whose 1984 presidential bid O’Malley got his first taste of national politics, the donors O’Malley cultivated as head of the DGA, and the supporters of his mayoral and gubernatorial bids....

With no mega-donor waiting in the wings, the super PAC will also be banking on small contributions from younger donors. “When you spend your entire career fighting … for the most disadvantaged, it is unlikely that a candidate or a super PAC is going to have any cozy relationship with billionaires or Wall Street executives.”

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/omalleys-long-shot-bid-gets-complicated-start-118442.html

[SoapBox]

11. Whaaat?

Ohhhh...so maybe that is how the impotent media will handle Bernie...saying that he has simply picked up others positions.

Yesterday there were front page stories about MOM's announcement, every place I looked..glowing articles.

I just kept shaking my head and thinking how the MSM is not listening to Bernie.

[FlatBaroque]

15. I like what I hear from MOM but

sadly, he will dilute the Bernie vote and that helps HRC

[sabrina 1]

18. I think he's more likely to dilute the Hillary vote. Bernie's supporters are very committed to him

right now. I have however seen comments from Hillary supporters, in Iowa eg, after some of Bernie's events, which they attended, saying thing like 'I'm torn, I really like Bernie's progressive message now' So they are wavering, going to listen to Bernie, which means their minds could be changed by the right candidate.

[aspirant]

47. Even the sky isn't the limit

How many of the 40% of Independent voters can he motivate?

He hasn't had time to assemble an AA team yet, but what % can he expect when he gets it rolling?

The Latino vote is still a work in progress and finding Spanish radio and Social Media outlets should be a focus.

The big surprise is the millennial support who rarely get polled except on the internet.

The 32% of democrats should yield a hefty chunk of Bernie Lefties.

Energizing the disgusted, non-participating, unregistered voter may be easier than what we think if we continue talking to our acquaintances with the Bernie Buzz.

I'm even reading that Repubs are starting to listen.

Polling now at 24% may just turn into an American explosion

[HooptieWagon]

46. I don't think so.

He will take votes from Hillary that Bernie might have captured is all. And he is a second front Hillary has to defend, so Bernie doesn't have to do all the attacking, and can spend more time talking policy. I don't think O'Malleys numbers will ever reach Bernies, so eventually he'll withdraw and throw his support to Bernie, imo. As far as I'm concerned, the more voices speaking out against Hillarys corporatism and warmongering, the better. Eventually they will merge into a loud roar.

[BrotherIvan]

55. O'Malley is taking it straight to Clinton

It actually gives Bernie some breathing room to talk about policy. Win win.

[HooptieWagon]

56. Exactly!!! Nt

[Jackpine Radical]

63. Which raises the question--

Just whose stalking horse is he, anyway?

He may be a significant part of a Perfect Storm that sweeps Bernie into the nomination.

[aspirant]

65. OR...

he could siphon off enough Bernie votes for early primary HRC wins until Sanders drops out and soon after O'Malloy drops out leaving an HRC coronation.

Surprise, surprise he gets the VP nod.

We must pay close early attention to the O'Malloy campaign.

[Jackpine Radical]

66. Yes, I acknowledge that possibility.

But he does seem to be coming down pretty hard & harsh on Hillary, calling her out on substantive issues that people care about. That may not be the smartest thing for a VP aspirant to do.

[BrotherIvan]

68. I wonder about that too

Watch his donations. He endorsed Clinton in 2007. I wouldn't put it past some stealth PACs. But she's already trying to wrap up the Latino vote by "leaking" Julian Castro for VP.

[TM99]

71. I think we have all been watching too much

House of Cards!

The thought crossed my mind as well.

[BrotherIvan]

73. If you haven't watched the original, do it!

I saw it years ago and actually like it better. It's dated though, but the lead actor tears it up.

[TM99]

75. Yes, I have seen both.

The original UK one is awesome. I really like Spacey so I enjoy his US version as well.

[BrotherIvan]

76. I like that it both are dark and cynical as hell

Really probably the most honest depiction of politics if you think about it. Even if it is highly stylized and seems to be over the top.

[retrowire]

12. This is something I immediately feared myself...

I knew as soon as I saw O'Malley parroting the issues that Bernie's been talking about, that the media would basically try and shun Bernie and hold O'Malley up in that light instead. After all, O'Malley is a younger, refreshing, clean looking guy!

I hate the media. Ugh.

It's times like these where I truly hope the majority is smarter than we think.

[azmom]

43. We voted for the younger, refreshing, clean looking guy before. Time to try something different.

[TM99]

57. I like O'Malley but it actually

looks like he is the one taking up Sanders' positions.

[Ed Suspicious]

60. Doesn't get much more Clintonian than Snuffelupagus.

[JDPriestly]

74. O'Malley seems to be a nice guy with good ideas. He is articulate and intellgent.

But he does not have Benie's sense of humor, long experience and gusto, energy for the progressive agenda.

O'Malley would make a good VP, but I don't think he will attract a lot of votes for president.

O'Malley might draw some of Hillary's supporters if Hillary were forced to drop out.

Face it. Sanders and Warren have the drive to do what is right and have the personalities that can get them elected. Sanders is running. Warren isn't. So Sanders has a good chance of winning. He just has that something that makes people trust and like him. And on top of that he is on the right side on the issues.

O'Malley is still a little self-centered and insecure I sense. I could be wrong. That is my opinion. I have the impression that he is, however, essentially, a thoughtful, good person.

One funny think about Sanders. We don't have to worry about a recent enough sex scandal. His article on feminism from the 1970s indicates that he is undeniably heterosexual and has been for a long time. (That's an awkward idea, but might matter to some Republicans and Independents although it shouldn't I suppose.) He doesn't take money from the extremely rich or corporations. He is a really good, moral person. Great candidate.

I think Sanders has a far better chance to become president than the press thinks. He has a lot going for him. He is, when all is said, an exciting candidate with new, very frank ideas that are more popular than even we realize.

[BrotherIvan]

6. As an honest question

What is normal for these kinds of events. As a person from the Left Coast, I'm very envious because we don't get this kind of campaigning. They keep saying that he has to change venues because the crowd is larger than expected. But is that because they are lowballing? What were Obama's crowds like for events such as these.

[jwirr]

22. I think they may truly not expected this turn out. I don't think they will after Iowa and MN.

[jeff47]

31. A couple hundred is "big".

That's why it was originally scheduled for a union hall.

[BrotherIvan]

45. Then that really is exciting

Hopefully the more people learn about him, the bigger the crowds will get. The fact that people were willing to sit outside and just listen speaks volumes.

[BeanMusical]

36. "As an honest question"

You know, I've been saying that I was being honest more and more to some of my posts lately when asking a question. It's really strange that we now have to do this or otherwise it can be seen as an attack or something. That's very sad.

[BrotherIvan]

38. Yes, with so many "stealth" supporters in Bernie threads

I do feel like I have to make that statement.

[BeanMusical]

41. Yes, sad but true.

[TheNutcracker]

9. Well their own poll here where they think they know, has it Hillary 9% Bernie 91%

[BeanMusical]

32. Hey TheNutcracker, I've been reading about those DU polls but didn't see them.

Do you have some links or could you point me in the right direction to find them? I'm very curious and would also like to vote in those polls. Not being snarky or whatever, honest request.

[sabrina 1]

14. They are listening to the Corporate media 'pundits' who have been wrong about everything

important that I can think of for a long time.

We are going to prove them wrong AGAIN! Lol!

Bernie is SOARING and we've only just begun this campaign!

[drynberg]

16. Exactly

And that's No Bull...

[BeanMusical]

33. +1

[L0oniX]

20. Normal unpartizan everyday people are desperate for a candidate like Bernie.

[BeanMusical]

34. That's damn true.

[Jefferson23]

24. I am hopeful and I allow myself to be excited despite the odds, as the odds makers tell me

I should not be. I am well aware of what Sanders is up against and how invested
the status quo is in keeping that alive in US politics. I have been waiting for this candidate
for a long time..Sanders is my street fighting man mensch.

[LiberalLovinLug]

39. I agree

I will support and ride the Bernie wave as long as it takes me. Hopefully ending on the shores of a brand new America. One that starts the process of dismantling the money influence in politics. Groups like ALEC and The Family etc..Overturning Citizens United with a more progressive new judge or two on the panel. That is the most pressing need as I see it. Campaign finance reform.

In Canada each party has spending limits based on a number of things like seats, last election polling results...Of course that doesn't mean Cons won't try and cheat, as our Con PM was found guilty of in 2006 when he overspent over a million. But all he did was deny deny deny for four years, then the courts found them guilty and they quietly payed a $52,000 fine. Just the price of doing business.

But as of today, each candidate is allowed :

http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=pol&dir=lim/post2015&document=index&lang=e

* A citizen or permanent resident of Canada can give up to $1,500 each year in total to each registered political party; up to $1,500 each year in total to the registered electoral district associations, nomination contestants and candidates of each registered party; up to $1,500 in total to the leadership contestants of a registered party in a particular contest; and up to $1,500 for a particular election to each candidate who is not endorsed by a registered party.

* Corporations and trade unions may not make contributions to political entities.


Also spending limits for parties that field a candidate in each of the 308 ridings can spend just more than $21 million in the election campaign....as of 2011.

Yes you heard that right...$21 million total, for the each whole party across the nation.


Add to that our election campaigns are only 6 weeks long from the moment the PM calls an election, which he/she can call anytime within the 5 years of office. There is no mid-terms, other than if a rep resigns or has leave office for some other reason. I look at the American system and it seems like you guys are forever campaigning. I'd actually like to see ours a little longer as it sets up opportunities for a horrible PM like we have to simply wait for a spike in the economy, call a snap election, say in his 3rd or 4th year, and within six short weeks be back up and running and good for another 5 years.

You could have some hybrid system but the main thing you must change is your obscene money influence and all the time taken begging for contributions and the ethical compromises a rep must make to compete for those $.

[Jefferson23]

40. CU is a disgraceful pander and the most cynical assault to a democracy. It simply is

not a sustainable model. Public funded elections is key, after over turning CU. There will
always be those who will try and get around it, but now there is a no reason for them
to hold back.

[sulphurdunn]

27. Every year the Republican Party

races farther right. Sanders is now the brake on the same drift in the Democratic Party. If it happens that the drift is stopped, it may be reversed. If it is reversed, most of the Wall Street leadership may be thrown overboard.

In a two party system, big money must vie for power in both parties to hedge its bets. Big money's contribution and influences will decrease as the party moves left. It will but not cease. I can live with that.

[Kalidurga]

30. I suspect at this time next year

the people that think Bernie doesn't have a chance are going to be bringing up Fifty Shades of Bernie again. It will be pathetic and hilarious at the same time.

[busterbrown]

35. Give me break!!Love Bernie but..

He will be framed as too old Marxist, Socialist Commie and the 30% of the electorate will buy into it..1/3
would say he would hurt the economy and so on and so on.. He hasn’t got a chance...And yes I would prefer him over Hillary...but if we don’t hold the presidency in 2016? We are totally fucked for decades..beginning with the extreme voter registration laws which would immediately be passed..This shit is just too scary.. for me...But I’ll say it again, in a perfect world Bernie All The Way!

[aspirant]

42. This Bernie group

is the perfect world for President Sanders.

"too scary"; How can you "love Bernie" and be scared to fight for him?

We feel he not only has "got a chance" but will win.

"totally fucked" is the country w/o Bernie's leadership, so please rethink your posts here.

[busterbrown]

49. Many would advise you to do the same........

“Rethink your post”..... Nope, your living in a dream..Which I wish would come true.. but it ain’t happening...Not yet...This is our populace..http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/23/most-americans-believe-in-climate-change-but-give-it-low-priority/

[aspirant]

51. Who are the many in the Bernie Sanders Group

that would advise me to believe that Bernie isn't electable?

[azmom]

44. Do not fear and do not underestimate the power of the people.

We need to reclaim our democracy.

[busterbrown]

48. But look at this...

Huge amount of people living in our country are low informed and ignorant..

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/09/23/most-americans-believe-in-climate-change-but-give-it-low-priority/

[aspirant]

52. Are you calling Bernie supporters ignorant?

[busterbrown]

61. Oh, for God sakes

Your just not following.. Bernie Supporters for the most part are well informed, compassionate , and empathetic.. I’m talking about the rest of the electorate..

[TM99]

58. If you are here to argue

with Sanders supporters that he is not electable, I am sorry but you are in the wrong place.

This is a safe haven for his supports.

Consider this your first warning. Thanks.

[busterbrown]

62. You must be kidding..

Go and slowly read my responses.. Slowly and stop making shit up about what I think...I would love Bernie to be our President, but Christ why are you so intolerant of my line of thought and logic?

[aspirant]

64. At a snail's pace,

you've repeatedly said he is unelectable.

You've called us dreamers and the vast majority of the populace "uninformed and ignorant". This directly questions our ability to reach and educate these voters in enough numbers to attain a Bernie Victory.

This logic is in direct conflict to our SoP, so if you truly love Bernie change the pessimism to optimism and work hard to elect him.

[TM99]

67. Being rude to a host really doesn't help your position

you know?

You have made posts discussing the various reasons why he is unelectable. We are all aware of those, from the real ones to the made up ones.

But here in this safe haven we focus on the solutions to those complaints. We are not here to post repeated negativity and pessimism about the candidate we support. We get quite enough of that in General Discussion.

You have presented your 'line of thought & logic'. Now how about you present some positive solutions or ideas for reaching out to 'ignorant low information voters' on behalf on Sanders.

[busterbrown]

69. Tell me the ones which are not real..

I just don’t have any answers to your fair questions.. But tell me, it is my opinion that if you can reach 15% of Fox listeners You’ll be in a good position..Do U feel U can reach 15% of Fox Listeners?

Honestly..

[TM99]

70. What is real or not is not relevant here.

But I don't know if reaching any Fox viewers is important in the grand scheme of things. Rarely will a Fox viewer even remotely consider voting for any one with a D after their name especially if he is an avowed Socialist Democrat.

But I do know that moderate Republicans who are not your typical Fox viewer are intrigued by Sanders. My family is mostly moderate Republicans. They are pro-civil & social rights, pro gay marriage, anti-war, pro 2nd amendment, and have watched their middle class incomes shrink and in some cases disappear.

Sanders stance on guns is appealing to them. It is moderate and not extreme in either direction. His most important appeal right now for them is the economic positions. Attempting to return us to some FDR/Eisenhower levels of taxation, regulation, and a strong social safety net is appealing to a wide and diverse base including some Republicans.

Could Sanders pull 15% of moderate Republicans votes? I think that is possible. In order for that to occur, he needs to be out there. This first week in New Hampshire, Minnesota, and Iowa shows that he is very well received. Social media is a buzz with support for Sanders from all sides of the political spectrum. So I want to see him continue that. I don't want to see him attempt to pander to what is the typical Fox viewer. I think Clinton will attempt to do so. Her connections with the Family suggest that.

[aspirant]

72. Honestly,time to get real

Not real;
1) 30% buys into an old Marxist, Socialist Commie
2) 1/3 thinks he will hurt the economy
3) and so on and so on; what % is that
4) Reach 15% of Fox Listeners; in a Democratic primary?

Since it is your opinion, share with us the optimistic way to reach 15% of Foxers so we can elect Bernie

"You'll be in a good position" No all lovers of Bernie, WE WILL be in a good position
"you can reach" No, we can reach, the use of pronouns are very important here

[mother earth]

82. The ability to "frame" this race is going to be lost real quick, this is only beginning.

They aren't going to be able to marginalize Bernie any more. He really is gaining steam and it is coming not only from our own party, but everyone who is damned fed up. People understand, they are living a mass deterioration, the middle class is dwindling and poverty is growing. People everywhere are seeing what is taking place.