Bernie & the Popular Vote

[TBF]

[PatrickforO]

1. For an insurgent he's doing pretty good!

[roguevalley]

43. so f**king retweeted. Thanks for the ammo, dear OP. You're

the best. For a woman destined to be queen she sure isn't winning the popular vote. Bernie will win my state. He's 14 over her just now. When he actually comes here and I know he will because he said he would go everywhere, the majority independents and more republicans than you can imagine will jump to him. Hillary cannot win Alaska.

[PatrynXX]

45. thats going straight to FB

why hello Bush Jr wannabe. seriously does hillary wanna look like Bush V Gore? before the general election? that right there spells problems in November.

[TIME TO PANIC]

2. This needs to be posted over and over again.

[TBF]

3. Feel free -

I'd love for some of the more prolific posters on DU to take this and post it around. I found it on the internet this morning. If you right click it gives you the image code.

[peacebird]

4. Tweeted!

[Dustlawyer]

5. Proof that gerrymandering is not just a Texas problem!

What ever happened to "the will of the people"? It became the will of the Donor class!

[djean111]

6. I am tired of the smug "check your integrity at the door" crap in GD-P. Because, IMO, that's

what is being asked of us. Or ordered, really.

Thanks for this!

[SHRED]

7. Is that an app?

[TBF]

13. Imgur.com

A page on the internet where you make memes. I didn't make this one - just found it this morning when I was looking at Facebook and Twitter.

Susan Sarandon had a video I wanted to imbed as well, but I couldn't figure out how to make it work on DU.

[Marty McGraw]

47. they even have Donald in drag

over there.

[ReallyIAmAnOptimist]

44. It's a screenshot from Wikipedia's "Democratic Party presidential primaries, 2016" page...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

[aaaaaa5a]

8. Popular vote is irrelevant.

Some states are caucuses. Some are primaries. You can't compare the two. Population vote totals in this context are ridiculous.


I said the exact same thing in 2008 when Hillary used the same ridiculous argument against Obama. When this argument comes up, it's a sign that your campaign losing. Or that you have lost.


Bernie Sanders is losing to Hillary Clinton. And the fact that this bogus, un-mathematical argument is already coming forth, is good evidence that this nominating race will soon be over.

[LovingA2andMI]

11. And Unlike Barack Obama

Hillary will likely lose in the general as no one likes her but corporate and blind following Democrats. It takes Progressive Democrats plus a health mix of Independents to win and Hillary does not have either one of those groups by anywhere but very SMALL numbers.

[TryLogic]

34. Exactly

[TBF]

14. Thank you Hillary Clinton supporter -

I love when you come in the Bernie group and spout off.

The way I see it right now - if "This nominating race will soon be over" it is solely due to Hillary's lies and tricks. Good luck in the general.

[Ferd Berfel]

50. Hey where did this come from

I want to re-post but prefer to also provide sources.

[davidthegnome]

18. Really?

The popular vote is the will of the people - and, btw, Obama won the popular vote unless you count Michigan - where he wasn't on the ballot.
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/06/clinton-and-the-popular-vote/

Seems to me that no one has lost or won yet, also, I fail to see how counting votes and delegates is "bogus" or, "un-mathematical", perhaps you'd care to elaborate on that. The OP seems to simply be pointing out that the race is still going - and indicating a vote count... hmm... looking for assertions of absolute victory... nope, none there. You get awful worked up about being confronted by facts.

The popular vote may not be, in the end, what determines victory (though it ought to be) - but to call it irrelevant, now THAT, is truly ridiculous.

[californiabernin]

20. Lol. Let's talk after Super Tuesday! nt

[Shadowflash]

29. ''Popular vote is irrelevant.''

Sadly, you are correct.

[sarge43]

33. There it is.

To hell with what the people want.

[TryLogic]

35. "Population vote totals in this context are ridiculous." As is democracy in the broader sense?

[dchill]

54. IDK, we should ask the DLC!

They'd know for sure.

[DrBulldog]

48. Spoken as a true Republican.

[Schema Thing]

9. I guess I haven't been paying attention... How does this work?

How can Bernie have 50% more votes cast for him and not be proportionally ahead?

[ejbr]

10. The same way Gore had 500,000

more votes than Bush, but still "lost" the election. Votes go toward delegates in primaries and electoral votes in the GE

[TexasBushwhacker]

26. And the Electoral College was created to take away power

from the individual voter. Mayors, Representatives, Senators, and Governors are elected by POPULAR VOTE. Why should the President be any different?

[ejbr]

12. Then clearly Sanders is on his

way out.

[TBF]

15. The DNC machine at work -

as we saw with Gore v. Bush this happens at all levels.

It is beyond frustrating. Sure they may legally "win" but talk about a broken system.

[gordyfl]

16. "The Wind is at Our Backs"

Although it's delegates that win the elections, it's nice to see how Bernie's doing overall.

That chart reinforces what Bernie said shortly after the Nevada Caucus - "The wind is at our backs".

[californiabernin]

17. We are going to win more primaries on Super Tuesday

And the whole media narrative will change.

[TBF]

19. ...

[Tragl1]

21. I just don't see it...

Just don't see how Clinton overcomes all the baggage she has to get past a republican nominee...they will come out in droves to make sure she is not elected. Plus, with the way the Bernie/Hillary camps are dividing, I don't see her getting huge turnout numbers. I think Bernie is a better choice to keep the White House, honestly.

[TBF]

23. I see it from your perspective -

but I try to remember that I am in Texas where I see "Hillary for prison" bumper stickers every day. These people are not rational and the state will be red in Nov - I am 100% sure of that. We register voters & wait for demographics to change. Other big states like California and New York are blue.

The superdelegates should be looking at the blue states (and the swing states) and trying to figure out if they have a better chance with Bernie or Hillary. I hope they are doing that rather than just giving in to pressure from the Clintons.

[TBF]

22. I do have a question (for anyone out there) -

When I do searches on the Internet I get the following:

Iowa:
Bernie 21
Hillary 23

NH:
Bernie 15
Hillary 9

Nevada:
Bernie 15
Hillary 19

But the graphic above (which I found randomly on the Internet) has Sanders at 50 and Clinton at 51. So I'm off by 1.

Just keeping a running tally of where we are before we get to the superdelegates (because those can most certainly change).

[ReallyIAmAnOptimist]

42. Wikipedia tracks this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

[TBF]

65. Thank you!

I like their chart even better

[1norcal]

24. Wow

Great graphic, thanks...

[TBF]

25. From the NYTimes this morning

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/us/elections/primary-calendar-and-results.html?_r=0

From what I can see they each have 51 delegates.

Why does the NYTimes count all the superdelegates for Hillary, while they don't count them for the republicans? Isn't that interesting?

[DebJ]

27. I heard on the TV yesterday that the Republican superdelegates function differently than the Dems.

But I was busy and wasn't really hearing the entire explanation. And it was from DWS. Her real point was that
Dems' super delegates are more democratic functioning (with a small 'd') than the Republican system. And it
was interesting she spoke quite a bit about how Dem super delegates can change their minds...

[jwirr]

39. I don't think the Rs even have super-delegates.

[FailureToCommunicate]

28. K & R

[Ed Suspicious]

30. Nice, but Real Clear Politics has them tied at 51 (when not counting the early announcing Supers).

[TBF]

32. Yeah, I asked about that above -

I think they are tied at 51 as well. I don't know who made the graphic.

My point in posting it is that this race clearly is not over. Clinton supporters are acting like it's over but we are tied in delegates & Bernie is overwhelmingly the favorite in popular vote.

[TryLogic]

38. Acting like the race is over is just another sample of Clinton misrepresentation.

That is what they do.

[highprincipleswork]

31. Good chart. I like it.

[mikehiggins]

36. superdelegates

If we do win enough delegates to tie up or derail the HRC campaign, AND the superdelegates hand her the nomination it will not end well.

[TryLogic]

40. You can say that again !!!

[jwirr]

37. That is very encouraging.

[HillDawg]

41. A Hillary Supporter coming in peace..

I really am just letting you know that this is not necessarily true. Iowa and Nevada both do not realease their popular votes, but their delegates, so a majority of these were built up because of New Hampshire. Not saying he couldn't be beating her in popular vote, but we don't know for sure because those number don't accurately portray the true popular vote so far.

[HubertHeaver]

55. Go to the Hill group and tell them that.

Be careful though. You may be thrown into the 'valley of the banned'.

[TexasBushwhacker]

56. Fair enough, but why don't they release their popular

votes? I mean, it would be nice to know. In any case, considering how close Iowa and Nevada were, chances are Sanders is still ahead in popular votes because of his clear win in NH. After South Carolina, that may change.

[HillDawg]

57. I'm not sure, caucuses are strange.

I'm sure he may have a lead like you said before New Hampshire and Iowa are so close. But being three states in is also not a great time to look at the popular vote either. We will start to see how things shape out soon enough here, things are going to pick up quickly. Should be fun!

[Matariki]

46. Thanks! A minor correction - it's now 51 -51!

I'd like to see this posted in GD-P. Would you like to do the honors?

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016:

[TBF]

63. I just saw that on the DSA facebook page -

go ahead and post in GD: P

[Uncle Joe]

49. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, TBF.

[TBF]

67. You're welcome as always Uncle Joe. nt

[DrBulldog]

51. Go check the Green Papers for the best estimated stats.

TheGreenPapers.com .

[TBF]

68. In TX we have the Burnt Orange Report

http://www.burntorangereport.com/

[dchill]

52. K&R

[progree]

53. The "popular vote" shown is just New Hampshire. What about voters in IA and NV?

According to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

If you go to the section "Schedule and results of primaries and caucuses" (the internal link to that section is all f'd up, otherwise I'd put it here)

and scroll past the map, it shows the New Hampshire count as Clinton: 95,249, Sanders: 151,578

Very closely matching the numbers in your graphic 95,252 and 151,584

So what about the people who voted in Iowa? In Nevada? Not the number of delegates chosen, but the number of voters who showed up and cast votes.

I read somewhere last night that the turnout in Nevada was an estimated 80,000, so that comes to about 42,000 voting for Clinton and 38,000 voting for Sanders.

As for Iowa, Democratic caucus turnout was 171,109 according to the below. So that's about 85,000 each.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-p-mcdonald/iowa-caucus-turnout-what-it-means_b_9141408.html

Granted, when you add it all up, it still puts Sanders well ahead in the voter vote totals...

Clinton: 222,249 (44.7%), Sanders: 274,578 (55.3%)

[jillan]

58. This does include IA & NV - did you forget to look at the top of the chart?

[HillDawg]

59. Did you forget

That Iowa and New Hampshire don't release a popular vote total?

[progree]

62. No I didn't forget. I think it is misleading however to ignore the voters in IA and NV.

I think at the least the OP should make it clear that it is just New Hampshire.

Still, Bernie has a double digit edge.

[progree]

61. The "popular vote" at the top of the OP chart doesn't say it includes IA and NV

And at the top right on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

where it has "popular vote" there are footnotes {a} and {b}

{a} does not include projections for states holding caucuses
{b} does not include projections for states holding caucuses

[in_cog_ni_to]

60. He's kicking her arse in the popular vote and TIED in Pledged DELEGATES, so that tells me, BERNIE

is the front runner. Super Delegates shouldn't even be part of the equation until June, at the convention. They include Super Delegate counts to make Clinton "look" inevitable! It's all OPTICS.

60.40% over ONLY 37.95% in actual votes - are you effing kidding me? She's not the front runner, but if you listen to the CORRUPT CORPORATE OWNED MSM, that's THEIR narrative - it's NOT THE TRUTH. Ignore them! Ignore the Clinton fan club in the GD P sewer. They have an agenda to further the Clinton LIES and the CORRUPT CORPORATE OWNED MSM's false narrative that Clinton is inevitable.

So, unless or until it looks like Bernie has no chance of winning with a massive popular vote or with Super Delegates , I'm ignoring the bullshit.

So there!

THANKS FOR THIS THREAD! It's a real pick me up!

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[TBF]

64. ...

[LiberalElite]

66. Kick! nt

[harun]

69. Only a matter of time until she drops out

Hillary vs. Trump and say hello to Fascism.

Bernie vs. Trump is outsider vs. outsider and Bernie is far more rational and experienced. Hello President Bernie.

[TBF]

70. It's the only chance -

if she strong arms the super delegates to throw the nomination her way (which she appears hell bent on) we will end up with Trump. That is reality right there and it is mind-boggling that the democratic party does not see it. If they do see it they are complicit in the march to fascism. At this point nothing would surprise me.